Greatest Living Red Sox...and All Time too

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,568
Something I just noticed: there are a relative handful of position players who have at least one 10+ WAR season.

14+: Ruth
12+: Yaz
11+: Bonds, Hornsby, Gehrig, Ripken, Wagner, Cobb, Mays, Musial, Morgan
10+: Betts, Williams, Collins, Foxx, Mantle, Trout, Yount, Boudreau, Sosa, Banks, Rosen, Speaker, Harper, Lajoie, Petrocelli,

The only players in that list who aren't in the HOF are Bonds, A-Rod, Sosa, Rosen, Harper, Trout and Betts.
ummm
 

Leskanic's Thread

lost underscore
Silver Supporter
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Jul 16, 2005
2,775
Los Angeles
One thing I hope ages really well with Papi is the 2013 World Series, which was one of the greatest performances in the history of baseball. Over six games Ortiz made 25 plate appearances, went 11-16, walked 8 times, struck out once, and finished with an OPS of 1.948. For the series, the Sox hit .211 even with Ortiz hitting .688. For those six games, NOBODY was hitting except Ortiz, and yet almost single-handily, he hit enough for the Sox to win the series. I'd argue it is the greatest championship performance in Boston sports history, which is really saying something.
The thing that blows me away about his numbers in the 2013 Series is how they would be even better if Beltran didn't catch a bases-loaded ball over the bullpen. He almost had another grand slam, which instead turned into a mere sacrifice fly. I'm not sure on the math, but I'm pretty sure that would have put his OPS over 2.000 for the Series. Insane.

 

Al Zarilla

Member
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Dec 8, 2005
58,909
San Andreas Fault
The thing that blows me away about his numbers in the 2013 Series is how they would be even better if Beltran didn't catch a bases-loaded ball over the bullpen. He almost had another grand slam, which instead turned into a mere sacrifice fly. I'm not sure on the math, but I'm pretty sure that would have put his OPS over 2.000 for the Series. Insane.

True, but if Torii had taken a better angle to the ball, the game 2 grand slam might not have happened and probably no World Series for us.

 

Leskanic's Thread

lost underscore
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Jul 16, 2005
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True, but if Torii had taken a better angle to the ball, the game 2 grand slam might not have happened and probably no World Series for us.
True -- and you take that trade-off every time. Always interesting to note how a few seconds and a couple of inches can swing things.
 

Bread of Yaz

New Member
Mar 12, 2019
373
For my maiden post, I come in praise of Carl.

In addition to what other folks have noted, I wanted to highlight just how clutch he was during the entire 67 season as he carried the team on his back:
  • With RISP: 331/434/662 - OPS = 1095
  • With two outs: 367/467/674 - OPS = 1141
  • With two outs and RISP: 396/540/740 - OPS = 1290
  • In September: 417/504/760 - OPS = 1265
One awesome memory was Sunday August 20. Sox played the Angels in a day-night. My dad, who worked three jobs and didn't even like sports, got tickets in the upstairs boxes that hung out over the crowd on the third base side. Sox crushed the Angels 12-2 in the day game. In the night game the Angels ran out to an 8-0 lead after three or four innings. The Sox chipped away and won 9-8 late. Yaz homered in both games and drove in six. The team landed in first place a couple days later, and the next six weeks were insane. I love Ortiz and Pedro like my children but what happened that year was pure magic.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
58,909
San Andreas Fault
For my maiden post, I come in praise of Carl.

In addition to what other folks have noted, I wanted to highlight just how clutch he was during the entire 67 season as he carried the team on his back:
  • With RISP: 331/434/662 - OPS = 1095
  • With two outs: 367/467/674 - OPS = 1141
  • With two outs and RISP: 396/540/740 - OPS = 1290
  • In September: 417/504/760 - OPS = 1265
One awesome memory was Sunday August 20. Sox played the Angels in a day-night. My dad, who worked three jobs and didn't even like sports, got tickets in the upstairs boxes that hung out over the crowd on the third base side. Sox crushed the Angels 12-2 in the day game. In the night game the Angels ran out to an 8-0 lead after three or four innings. The Sox chipped away and won 9-8 late. Yaz homered in both games and drove in six. The team landed in first place a couple days later, and the next six weeks were insane. I love Ortiz and Pedro like my children but what happened that year was pure magic.
The thing I’ll always remember about that second game against the Angels was Jerry Adair’s single to tie it in the bottom of the 6th. Adair was one of those glue guys that year. But, yeah, Yaz was The Man, or Superman.
 

jaytftwofive

New Member
Jan 20, 2013
1,182
Drexel Hill Pa.
I think it's Yaz, Ortiz. Clemens. Like Roger or not, his stats for those years are great. 3 Cy Young awards. Pedro and Papi won titles so that's what seems to matter to most fans now. And the steroid rumors around David will always loom a little though he only flunked once in 2003. After that it's Pedro, Rice, Tiant @ maybe Dewey.
 
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sheamonu

Member
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Nov 11, 2004
1,342
Dublin, Ireland
Completely biased because the player you idolise as a kid can (and should) never be eclipsed - but it's Yaz. All the reasons set out above in his favor are fully valid but one I haven't heard is the fact that he directly followed Williams and still accomplished what he did. The pressure would (and has) ruined many lesser men. Even those who did succeed in such circumstance didn't handle it as well (Mantle was haunted by Joe D.). Yaz just put his head down and made himself great.
 

gedman211

Member
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Aug 6, 2016
2,844
The stats say Yaz, but the jewelry says Papi. They're both equally valid arguments as far as I'm concerned.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
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Dec 8, 2005
58,909
San Andreas Fault
Completely biased because the player you idolise as a kid can (and should) never be eclipsed - but it's Yaz. All the reasons set out above in his favor are fully valid but one I haven't heard is the fact that he directly followed Williams and still accomplished what he did. The pressure would (and has) ruined many lesser men. Even those who did succeed in such circumstance didn't handle it as well (Mantle was haunted by Joe D.). Yaz just put his head down and made himself great.
Did that come out in one of the books about the Mick? He sure didn't play like it. In his first seven years, he was .316/.427/.574 with 2 MVPs. And, that included his first year when he was back sent down to the minors for a while for not hitting. You do hear about Joe D being caustic to the rookie, no surprise because Joe was reportedly a prick.
 

canvass ali

New Member
Jul 17, 2005
88
Attleboro MA
One awesome memory was Sunday August 20. Sox played the Angels in a day-night. In the night game the Angels ran out to an 8-0 lead after three or four innings. The Sox chipped away and won 9-8 late. Yaz homered in both games and drove in six. [/QUOTE said:
Ha, we must be the same vintage, I vividly remember listening to this particular game on the radio with my brothers and sisters, a favorite memory of mine.
 

sheamonu

Member
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Nov 11, 2004
1,342
Dublin, Ireland
Did that come out in one of the books about the Mick? He sure didn't play like it. In his first seven years, he was .316/.427/.574 with 2 MVPs. And, that included his first year when he was back sent down to the minors for a while for not hitting. You do hear about Joe D being caustic to the rookie, no surprise because Joe was reportedly a prick.
Yes - It was in "The Last Boy" and forms a major plot point in "61*". Mantle certainly played through Dimaggio's bullshit but resented the "greatest living ballplayer's" treatment of him and others. The inference was that it impacted Mantle's off-field behavior more than his play (at least short term). Dimaggio was always standoffish to his teammates and an ass-kisser to the press. Mantle was much the opposite - beloved by his teammates, he never turned down a party and wasn't really given much good press until later in his career. The impression is left that one of the reasons Mantle acted in the over the top way he did was that he never wanted anyone to see him as behaving the way Dimaggio had towards him.