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Gordons Production

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by bakahump, Sep 20, 2018.

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What will Gordons 2018 Production be?

  1. Never takes a game snap.

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  2. <5 Catches

    12 vote(s)
    7.6%
  3. <20 Catches

    34 vote(s)
    21.7%
  4. <40 Catches

    62 vote(s)
    39.5%
  5. <60 Catches

    26 vote(s)
    16.6%
  6. >60 Catches

    21 vote(s)
    13.4%
  1. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,051
    So EEI had an all day sploogefest of trying to determine "What will Josh Gordon Provide".

    While it was bad radio i did think it was an interesting question.

    Feel free to add Yardage and what you think a "Good result" would be.

    For instance maybe you think that 35 catches would be a good result, but you think he will catch less then 20.
    Or maybe your standards are higher and a "good result" would be 60+ Catches.

    So what do you think he will get? (poll)
    And what do you think will be "good"? (Comments)
     
  2. Jnai

    Jnai is not worried about sex with goats SoSH Member

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    13,746
    Good production would be that teams are forced to commit more than one person to covering Josh Gordon.
     
  3. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    16,994
    For me, The question isn’t whether Gordon can produce like Randy Moss but whether he develops that trust with Brady that Moss had.

    One of the things that I remember most often about that pairing was that at least once a game if not two or three times Brady would force a throw to Moss when there was nothing there. What I don’t remember was how early in their tenure together Brady was doing that. He’s done it a little bit with Gronk from time to time. But I will be interested to see whether he does the same with Gordon.
     
  4. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,239
    I seem to recall that Brady would frustratingly throw balls up to Moss towards the end of Moss’ career here. Back in 2007, it wasn’t a problem because Moss basically caught everything. Will be interesting to see how it goes if Gordon is active. Poor Matty P has no idea what to prepare for.
     
  5. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    15,399
    Taking the glass half-filled approach, in the one game he played this year, on a team with several decent options at WR, he was targeted 3 times, with 1 catch for 17 yards, by Tyrod Taylor, a QB with whom he had no experience. So, if knock on wood, he's healthy, he and Brady can get to know each other, maybe he's got 3+/- receptions a game and is a viable stretch the field and defense threat.
     
    #5 bankshot1, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  6. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,927
    I'm going to say 32 rec, 580 yds, 5 TDs.
    So essentially, what Chris Hogan put up in his first year with the Pats.
     
  7. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,328
    The Patriots are going through WR tryouts like shit through a goose. The guys that have been through are good players. They have at least some talent. That leads me to believe that there is an awful lot more than talent that is required for this system. I guess the shorthand for this is "learn the playbook." That's probably a decent description but I think what it means is that this passing offense depends an awful lot on players needing to be where Brady thinks they are going to be.

    This seems to get described as a weak point for Gordon. There's really no good reason to think he's going to be Randy Moss and not be Ochocinco. Other than hope I guess. Add in that he's already a frequently suspended player and there's a significant risk that he gets suspended again. I really hope that doesn't happen, whether he ever catches a pass for the Patriots or not. But in trying to predict what's going to happen here, I guess it has to be taken into account.

    My guess is that he's going to have an impact but not until Edelman gets back. It might not necessarily show up in his production, but I think having him on the field will open stuff up for everyone. But anyway to answer the question directly, I think he's going to have one big game. And that he's going to be otherwise moderately productive and an ingredient that lifts the other boats but not necessarily his own.

    But, to answer the question directly -- 20-30 catches, 300 yards, 2 TD.
     
  8. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,774
    I think the playbook stuff is overblown. Ochocinco was washed up; he was 33 when he joined the Patriots. He didn't stick in Miami the next year, either, even though he described their playbook as much simpler. Joey Galloway was old and washed up, too. Gordon is 27.

    They have been cycling through guys because the guys they've had have been hurt (Mitchell, Matthews, Berrios, Darboh for five seconds), are old / washed up (Decker), both (Britt), or are young guys with little established production (Coleman, Hanson, McCarron). I don't know that the playbook had much to with any of it. And there's no comparison between Gordon and any of these guys. Hell, Gordon has almost 1000 more career yards than Hogan even though a) they entered the league at the same time and b) Gordon has been suspended more than half his career. Obviously Gordon brings a his own set of risks, but there are stark differences versus the other receivers they've brought in in the last few months.
     
  9. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,656
    To me a good result is that he makes it through the season without getting cut or suspended. Any real production would be great, but if it takes him all year to settle in but they like him enough to tender him I'd be happy.
     
  10. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,248
    Has it? Obviously being on the same page is important, because Brady wont throw it unless he is confident you are seeing what he sees.
    I ask because I really don't know. He doesn't seem to have been on the field enough to make that judgment. There's been plenty written about him, but it all seems to be about his substance abuse (no shit). After all, he walked out of the cornfield last year and went 4/85 in his 1st game. (4 of 11 targets, but he had Ray Charles and Venus DeMilo at QB, so who knows.)

    (links about playbook learning in 3.....2.....1....)

    I have no expectations. It's like finding a gift card in the back of the drawer. "I wonder if there's anything left on here......"
     
  11. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    24,743
    I think Lombardi's comments clearly paint Gordon as someone who is not going to go the extra mile in terms of preparation.
     
  12. The Allented Mr Ripley

    The Allented Mr Ripley holden Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    11,443
    This is where I'm at. Anything else is gravy.
     
  13. eustis22

    eustis22 lurker

    Messages:
    913
    Are we gonna be mad if Jordan Matthews is 65/730/7?
     
  14. streeter88

    streeter88 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    929
    Encouraged by reports that his locker is next to Brady's, and that the Patriots got him rather than the Eagles.

    Other than that, I am with Joe Dokes on the found gift card analogy, though all the posts above were excellent.

    If he can contribute as much as Hogan in his first year and have maybe one game where he wa dominant, I think most would be ecstatic, as would the Patriots.
     
  15. McBride11

    McBride11 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,316
    This.

    I voted <20. But are teams going to commit 4 people to covering Gordon and Gronk?

    Jax isnt going to be able to drop Jack back to play a high cover 1 and letting the safety step to Gronk if Gordon is running a post or fly on the same side.

    You have to assume once Jules is back, until Gordon proves himself at least, he will be option 4 at WR (JE, PD, CH) and will only have limited plays / options thus keeping his catch total down.
     
  16. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,371
    I don’t even remember what I voted (I think the 40 catch option) but if he’s healthy and behaves, I think under 20 is overly pessimistic. He’s too talented and I agree with the previous poster (supernomario?) that expressed he believes the playbook angle is overplayed. They haven’t reinvented the wheel, the guys that have flamed out have been old or not good.
     
  17. ilol@u

    ilol@u Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,013
    >60 catches. Guessing 75 catches, 1100 yards, 10 TDs. I think he will be a monster. This is like having an AJ Green/Julio Jones type talent.
     
  18. dbn

    dbn Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,767
    In the next 14 regular season games: 42 catches, 714 yards, 5 TDs.
     
  19. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,401
    His impact (assuming he stays clean and healthy) on the offense as a whole will be greater than his personal numbers might indicate. He might not put up personal numbers that are unbelievable, but teams will have to seriously account for him, and that gives NE two absolutely dynamic players that teams either need to commit their best pass defenders to, or devote two defenders to. So you put those two out there with White, Edelman, and Hogan/Dorsett, and I just don't know what teams are supposed to do.

    White can beat any LB. Gronk can only be covered by two people or by one elite corner/safety (that's allowed to grab and hold). Same for Gordon. So you put your two best guys on them and Edelman and White have one-on-one matchups that they can exploit rather easily. And Hogan and Dorsett may not be able to beat elite defenders, but they are able to beat teams' worst defenders left in one-on-one assignments.

    So maybe Gordon's personal numbers won't be gaudy, but the offense should be unbelievable.
     
  20. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,217
    Is the intent of this thread to assume that he stays clean and eligible to play?

    If you factor those risks in, I can't believe that people think he's catching 40ish passes with the Pats. That would be an incredibly optimistic scenario given what we know about this guy.
     
  21. dbn

    dbn Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,767
    100 wins is possible.
     
  22. ehaz

    ehaz Member SoSH Member

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    2,064
    Last 14 games (5 seasons): 138 targets, 66 receptions, 1052 yards, 4 TDs
     
  23. Old Fart Tree

    Old Fart Tree the maven of meat Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,608
    39 catches, 517 yards, 5TD
     
  24. axx

    axx lurker

    Messages:
    6,060
    That's where I am with him too. What soured me was the talk that the Browns were unhappy with his conditioning.
     
  25. Koufax

    Koufax Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,211
    17 catches, 223 yards, 2 TDs until the next suspension. Then he gets cut.
     
  26. Oppo

    Oppo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    65/1200/12
     
  27. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,371
    His next suspension, he'll be out of the league.
     
  28. GeorgeCostanza

    GeorgeCostanza Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,409
    If he hits any one of those numbers I’m dropping $250 to the Jimmy Fund, and I’ll do it with a shit eating grin.
     
  29. DegenerateSoxFan

    DegenerateSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,390
    FWIW, this guy’s got to know that in coming to New England, he’s really on his last shot. With an all-time great QB and an organization that runs a tight ship, he’s Done (capital D) if he can’t keep his shit together and at least be productive (Brady spreads the ball around anyway, but he’ll get some shots to go out and go for it). Who else will give him at shot if he can’t contribute here?
     
  30. mostman

    mostman Member SoSH Member

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    6,968
    I’ll match.
     
  31. CoffeeNerdness

    CoffeeNerdness Member SoSH Member

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    3,113
  32. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,078
    This is true, but it’s not really how addiction works. Either he’s ready or he’s not. I hope he is; haven’t rooted for a player like him in awhile.
     
  33. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,701
    So, he's comparable to Richard Seymour?
     
  34. DegenerateSoxFan

    DegenerateSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,390
    I don’t disagree, but even if he stays clean - and your guess is as good as mine if his addiction is too powerful to overcome for a for-real last chance - he’s still got to produce. I’m pulling for him.
     
  35. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,701
    "Josh has worked hard, he's a smart kid and he's got quite a bit of experience," Patriots head coach Bill Belichick told reporters Monday. "He's, obviously, played in a lot of different systems with different coordinators and so forth. So, I think one way or the other, he's probably experienced things that we're doing in one of those systems that he's been involved in. So, he's been able to pick things up quickly and has experience doing different things, so it was good to get him out there. We'll just see how it goes, take it week-to-week here."
     
  36. axx

    axx lurker

    Messages:
    6,060
    That was a nice catch, btw. Brady really should not have thrown that, but he fought off the two Colts there and hauled it in.
     
  37. CantKeepmedown

    CantKeepmedown Member SoSH Member

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    1,654
    As others said, it was kind of Moss-esque. He was the only one that seemed to be tracking it, held up and went after it. Definitely a risky throw, but he's big and athletic enough to go and get those.

    It was nice to see how happy everyone looked for him (and he himself). I really hope he can keep it together. They are going to need every bit of offense they can get next week.
     
  38. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    21,236
    Here’s the catch last night reminded me of. Forty seven second mark:
     
  39. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,774
    Gordon only played 18 snaps last night and Brady still targeted him four times. That's a good sign.

    EDIT: as far as in-season pickups, he's already passed Austin Collie (82 yards vs 63) and only has 10 to go to catch Keshawn Martin (who started eight games).
     
  40. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,844
    Gordon adds that different dimension from the other Patriots receivers - was listening to Joe Banner on a podcast saying that when Gordon had the great year in Cleveland he was unlike the other great receivers in the league in that Gordon wasn't a great route runner, but he was just so strong and so good at getting the ball in 50-50 situations that it more than made up for that
     
  41. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,701
    Call and raise.



    (2'48" mark if it doesn't load)
     
  42. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    7,050
    Man, Revis really got torched on that one in his "Welcome to the NFL!" moment.
     
  43. geigercount

    geigercount lurker

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    17
    There was a clear illegal contact on that play that wasn't called. Gordon was grabbed, doubled and still made the catch look easy. With his size, strength and ball awareness - what a weapon he can be.
     
  44. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    8,205
    I thought his adjustment to catch the ball between those two defenders reminded me of Antonio Brown and how he is able to adjust to make grabs in traffic. Just a real aggressive move, if you notice he feels out the second defender for space, but he also got a little pop from the first defender and that didn't effect his catch at all. So he's strong in traffic, finds his own space. Real good to see.
     
  45. kelpapa

    kelpapa Member SoSH Member

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    2,495
    Yea, pretty blatant hold at :26 seconds.
     
  46. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I watched his highlights form Cleveland when the Pats got him. What really stood out for me in those highlights was the fact that he looks to have really strong hands and long arms. This means he catches the ball out away from his body a lot, and frequently at high points. In other words, he makes his catches on contested balls a lot more than someone like Cooks who made his catches, in essence, with his feet, by beating men and creating separation. Gordon doesn't need separation.
     
  47. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    32,217
    Yep. He can make an impact in 15-20 snaps a game, but I have feeling he’s gonna be unleashed bit by bit as season unfolds. Don’t show everything we’re gonna do with him.
     
  48. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    30,239
    Yup. Gordon doesn't need separation but he's perfectly capable of creating it. He really is a nightmare cover when he's on his game. This Pats offense is going to be deadly. They f'd up 3 times yesterday (Hogan INT, Gronk INT, Jules drop) and still scored 38. Now, we have Gordon being that outside threat that we lacked, Gronk being deadly in the middle of the field, and Edelman/White carving defenses up with the short stuff. And then you have Michel who is becoming increasingly dangerous. The OL just needs to hold up.

    I'm very excited to see what this offense can do against the Bears defense on the road. That'll be a big test.
     
  49. TomTerrific

    TomTerrific Member SoSH Member

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    Well, I voted for <5 catches, so one more and I'm proven wrong. Happy to be so.

    Small sample size and all, but Gordon is leading the team in the receiver version of the ANYA stat, at almost 14 yds per attempt.

    The maddening thing is one fuckup by Gordon and it all goes away.
     
  50. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,051
    Currently 9/124
    40 looks well within reach especially with the "Trust" that TB seems to be developing.
     

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