Felix Doubront: Unhappy
- Thread starter Corsi
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I mean, on the one hand, his usage patterns have been terrible and I'm sure that really sucks for him, so the frustration is understandable. OTOH, the quote around "I've already proven myself" really sticks in the craw. If that 4.47 and 5.1 IP/GS is him showing the team what he's got, that's not gonna get a guy handed a locked-in SP slot on a first division team.
It takes some real chutzpah to complain about your role when you've pitched as shitty as Doubront has.
And complaining about it isn't going to win him any favors either.
And complaining about it isn't going to win him any favors either.
Rudy Pemberton said:
The team being sub-.500 doesn't help matters either. In fact, it probably just fuels their hubris in believing they'd be helping the team to win more if they were on the field as much as they think they should be.
Winning is the salve that cures all ills.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Carp I can understand - at least he's never even had a shot at a starting role or something resembling regular playing time. Doubront's had ample opportunity to show what he can do, and what he can do just hasn't been very impressive.
I don't think it's a bad thing for guys to want more playing time. The guy didn't play for two weeks! When Cherington made it clear that he was focusing more on 2015, I think that sends the signal that this year's team is officially over. Doubront can read the writing on the wall that his chances of getting another shot at starting next year with the Red Sox are pretty slim. Now that the team has Given Up, I'd be worried about my future too. I don't think this reflects badly on Doubront.
If Felix had proven himself then Boston would probably not be in last. Send him to Pawtucket if he keeps whining
Tyrone Biggums said:
He has no options. Sending him down would require a DL-stint (and thus a limited stay) or a DFA.
What sucks is I thought this would be his breakout out season. How disappointing has he been this season? He's high up on the list of dissapointments for the Sox so far in 2015.rembrat said:
I can understand the tendency to tell these guys to look in the morror. However, I am sure most of this can be attributed to frustration at their own and their team's performance, the fact that just about every athlete at every level wants to be on the field, and the lack of awareness of what their bitching is going look like in print. Unless, the complaining is or becomes habitual and distracting I doubt it has any effect on their tenure with the club, other then a quick trip into the manager's office with a strong suggestion to not vent publicly.
Doubrant has always taken this position and bitched about going to the bullpen to help WIN a World Series last year. He'll be a nice addition to the Marlins staff this winter as a piece of the Stanton deal......I pray.Rudy Pemberton said:
Many years ago the story is told about Mickey
Mantle walking into the clubhouse to find John
Blanchard, one of the three rotating catchers
(Berra and Howard the others) sobbing. Mick asked what's wrong and was told that he(Blanchard) had been traded to KC (often called the Yanks farm club).
In an attempt to perk him up offered that he was
Immediately the best catcher in KC and would now play every day.
"That's why I'm so distressed," said Blanchard,
" they'll find out I can't play up here. "
Just sayin'
Mantle walking into the clubhouse to find John
Blanchard, one of the three rotating catchers
(Berra and Howard the others) sobbing. Mick asked what's wrong and was told that he(Blanchard) had been traded to KC (often called the Yanks farm club).
In an attempt to perk him up offered that he was
Immediately the best catcher in KC and would now play every day.
"That's why I'm so distressed," said Blanchard,
" they'll find out I can't play up here. "
Just sayin'
Probably sees the writing on the wall, hopes this gets him tossed in as a "throw in" in any Lester deal and lands him on a better team.
A lot of their financial future is tied to playing time. It impact their arbitration return. It impacts how other teams see them and whether or not they are viable options next year and beyond.
Doubront complaining about moving to the pen has to be seen in this light. Can you blame the guy?
I would love to see them all being good soldiers and teammates, but at the end of the day this is their job and they need to watch out for their own future.
Unfortunately for them... what is the trade market? Cant be much. So they are either going to have to stick it out, play better and force the teams hand, or complain loud enough where the equation changes.
Doubront complaining about moving to the pen has to be seen in this light. Can you blame the guy?
I would love to see them all being good soldiers and teammates, but at the end of the day this is their job and they need to watch out for their own future.
Unfortunately for them... what is the trade market? Cant be much. So they are either going to have to stick it out, play better and force the teams hand, or complain loud enough where the equation changes.
Um, yes, of course we can.
His lack of playing time is directly tied to his lack of performance. If he had been getting the job done as a starter, he wouldn't be in the bullpen and he'd be getting all the playing time any pitcher could ask for.
He has been given multiple chances to take it to the next level and he was actually pretty damn brilliant for three months last year but he was pretty blah the other three months and pretty blah or worse this season.
The only reason he's not in the rotation is because he wasn't performing well enough to be in the rotation.
In short, fuck him, he doesn't get to complain when it's all his fault.
Because at his best he is better than Felix has ever showed plus he is being paid a whole hell of a lot more money.judyb said:
That is the root of the issue here for Felix, he is pissed to see millions of dollars of future earnings go down the drain.
Maybe this is what he needs to finally wake up and put in the work in the offseason that a professional should put in.
There's video from today's game of Doubront reaching to shake a fan's hand, and the fan striking him in the palm. The fans are obviously not happy with Doubront, either.
http://m.mlb.com/bos/video/topic/47149486/v34852991/bostb-doubront-high-fives-a-young-fan-in-bullpen/?c_id=bos
http://m.mlb.com/bos/video/topic/47149486/v34852991/bostb-doubront-high-fives-a-young-fan-in-bullpen/?c_id=bos
judyb said:
Seriously?
This is Buchholz' resume:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/buchhcl01.shtml
This is Doubront's:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/doubrfe01.shtml
Doubront's peripherals are deteriorating: his K rate is falling off, but his BB rate stubbornly high. Coming in to camp "in the best shape of his life" in 2014 didn't help him, and he hasn't performed well in any role. The trouble for him is that it's not worth the Red Sox giving him away when he is cost-controlled and can eat innings as a fifth starter. Until some cash-strapped second-division team decides they want him enough to pay a good prospect for him, he is stuck in Boston and we are stuck with him. He used to be a good reliever in the Doubardelbon days of 2010, and as long as Workman, Ranaudo and Wright are waiting in Pawtucket for their starter trials, that's the only way he'll get back into the game.
Doubront still has so much potential. His inconsistency drives everyone up the wall.... I'm wondering if Lester gets dealt, what the rotation might look like. He could have a two month stint to "prove" himself again since his trade value is a hair over zip.
Clay
Lackey
Workman
RDLR
Doobs
I dunno... i just don't know....
Clay
Lackey
Workman
RDLR
Doobs
I dunno... i just don't know....
But then it isn't the only reason. The way they're using him now isn't helping anyone unless they really do intend to turn him into a reliever. And it's hurting if they intend to trade him.
He probably sees things like last year's teammate Franklin Morales getting regular starts with the Rockies and a season total of 97.1 IP so far, second on the Rockies. Franklin has a worse WHIP and K/BB than Doubront. Maybe Felix's English as a second language kept him from saying what he wanted to say diplomatically. A really crappy team (crappier than ours) would probably give him what he wants.
It takes pitchers a while to figure it out, and Felix might still be at the point where he needs more innings to better understand how to get hitters out. That is massively frustrating -- we've seen him dominate one start, and then fail to show up in the next start. He has really good stuff, but he may still need more time.
He also might not be an AL East pitcher. How do you think the Orioles feel about Jake Arrieta's numbers this year?
He also might not be an AL East pitcher. How do you think the Orioles feel about Jake Arrieta's numbers this year?
Not that I didn't cringe watching Felix pitch this year, but I also do remember how exceptional he was during the World Series in 2013.
That's not a reason to keep around an underperforming pitcher, but it's a good enough reason for me not to pile on.
That's not a reason to keep around an underperforming pitcher, but it's a good enough reason for me not to pile on.
This season is a lost cause, and Doubront's trade value has been hurt so badly by his performance that his complaining can hardly make it worse. Should he keep his mouth shut (at least publicly) and do his job? Of course, but he's not really hurting the club, so I can't understand why people are getting so mad at a guy who contributed meaningfully to last year's championship.
Who the hell is Felix Doubront to be demanding? He says he proved himself. Really dude? In 417 career innings, you've pitched to a 4.70 ERA (88 ERA+) with a 1.45 WHIP and 4.0 BB/9. He's proven himself to be somebody who hasn't done enough to be saying anything about his future to the media. If he'd have pitched better this year, he'd be in the rotation. What an idiot. Just get rid of him.
Well he's proved to be a very competent 5th starter in the AL East...that's not nothing. And he got some massive outs in the postseason.RedOctober3829 said:
That said, I agree he doesn't have a ton of leverage to demand a rotation spot.
bosockboy said:
This is probably an issue for a different thread, but I think the idea of a below average starter being a "competent 5th starter" is weird. All "5th starter" means is the worst starting pitcher on the team who can't easily be replaced by someone better. The "average" 5th starter, if such a thing can be said to exist, is basically replacement level. Which I agree is not nothing...but not that much more than nothing.
judyb said:
What isn't the only reason, and which him? I'm fairly sure the front office hasn't made any permanent decisions regarding Doubront. Young pitchers with his potential always have some trade value, but that's because he has some keep-them-and-have-them-perform value.
The concept of "replacement level" breaks down when it is applied to starting pitching -- although it's probably true that teams can reliably pick up a minimally competent position player to fill a hole, there are plenty of teams that were undone by failure to find minimally acceptable SP solutions. The 2011 Red Sox are a perfect example: if they had someone the caliber of 2014 Doubront to make the 24 starts they gave to Andrew Miller, Kyle Weiland, and the corpse of Daisuke Matsuzaka, they almost certainly would have made the playoffs, and the club's recent history would likely be very different.alwyn96 said:
So even the 2014 version of Doubront has value. Problem is, that value isn't great enough to fetch a good prospect, so the Sox are better off keeping him as a long reliever and deep-depth SP in 2015 than trading him, unless he rebuilds some of his trade value by pitching well in August and September.
Sure looks like he's tanking tonight on purpose. That's alotta meatballs. And if he IS doing it on purpose, screw that guy. Cut him.
Rasputin said:
We know all that bolded shit and Yecul didn't say we didn't so you're arguing against no one and ignoring Yecul's question.
"Can you blame him?" For talking? No not on that level. He wants to start and there are reasons why he wants to start. He knows his future is not in Boston and now he is saying what he needs to say to make it clear he wants to have that future...
Stuff like "FUCK HIM" and "STFU" is far more ignorant than him talking about his future. In short, reactive "FUCK YOU FOR COMPLAINING" is short-sighted and childish.
I can understand why Doubront is pissed. He has fallen behind Workman and Webster and Delarosa in the depth chart despite being a 26 year old two time 11 game winner. He has millions at stake in the Sox decision about usage.
That said, he isn't handling this well, clearly. He should shut up. A couple of decent bullpen stints could put him back in the rotation before long.
That said, he isn't handling this well, clearly. He should shut up. A couple of decent bullpen stints could put him back in the rotation before long.
He might need to shut up. But not tonight. If he isn't there to face the media after the game there is going to be a real Valentine-era shitshow.
And there might be anyway. I have a hard time believing that any big leaguer would tank it on purpose. But he did dog it -- no way he was ready to pitch tonight -- and he did embarrass his teammates. And the perception that he tanked it is going to be hard to shake.
And there might be anyway. I have a hard time believing that any big leaguer would tank it on purpose. But he did dog it -- no way he was ready to pitch tonight -- and he did embarrass his teammates. And the perception that he tanked it is going to be hard to shake.
Houston, we have a problem....
This guy is either injured, not trying, or he's completely lost it. Of all he damning stats from tonight's "performance", my personal favorite is - of the 36 pitches he threw there wasn't a single swing and miss.
This guy is either injured, not trying, or he's completely lost it. Of all he damning stats from tonight's "performance", my personal favorite is - of the 36 pitches he threw there wasn't a single swing and miss.
Oh man, I didn't see the performance. I've always been a huge Doubront defender, think he has talent, but also thought he was a pill on the mound. If he truly did tank tonight -- and I don't know how you can put up that kind of statline otherwise -- then I'm done.
Yeah, I just looked at the boxscore, didn't see his actual performance. Coming in here and reading so many alleging he tanked it is really disheartening. I get why Felix is upset, but wish he had kept his mouth shut. If he really was throwing up Wainwright to Jeter type meatballs, he's lost any respect I've had for him. He's also completely lost any trade value he might have had and done nothing to help himself get into the rotation in Boston. In short, he had nothing to gain by tanking, so I hope he didn't. I'll be anxious to see the, ummm, highlights.Paradigm said: