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Everton 2017-18 Post-mortem: Eight(h) is Enough

Discussion in 'Breakfast with Gazza (with Sachmoneious Bullcrap)' started by OilCanShotTupac, May 31, 2017.

  1. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    So: the usual transfer rumor crap. Nothing that substantial yet.

    Seems to be general agreement that Lukaku's stock fell a little at the end of the season, when he failed to impose himself on games. Supply has always been a problem - it's not like the Toffees have Ozil or his like to feed through-balls to the big man- but neither did Lukaku, in the parlance of basketball, create his own shot, especially toward the end of the season.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...ews/everton-striker-romelu-lukaku-25-13113659

    Interestingly, Lukaku was not along the leaders in fans' average player rankings for the year; his middling 6.0 was well behind Schneiderlin and Gueye at 6.8. (The best player IMO before his injury was Seamus Coleman, who was solid defensively and the Toffee's best option pushing forward from the back).

    Obviously Lukaku and Barkley are the big pieces and much will depend on what happens there. Supposedly there is money to spend. Rumors include Joe Hart and Wayne Rooney, which would be a very good 2014 World Cup squad.
     
  2. fletcherpost

    fletcherpost sosh's feckin' poet laureate Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think Rooney to Everton is very reasonable. He's a home body and I can't see him going to the continent to play a couple of seasons. He loves the North West.
     
  3. coremiller

    coremiller Member SoSH Member

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    Wouldn't wages be a huge problem for Rooney at Everton? Rooney has two years left on his deal that pays him 250k-300k/week (depending on which source is reporting it). Everton's highest paid player is Lukaku, on 90k, and Lukaku is a lot better than Rooney right now. Would Rooney really accept something like a 75% pay-cut (say, to 75k/week) to play for Everton? How much would United pay to get Rooney's salary off their books?
     
  4. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    He'd be a good fit for the cagey veteran/mentor role and could work well just behind Lukaku or someone similar, without the pressure of being the guy.

    He does make too much money.
     
  5. 67YAZ

    67YAZ Member SoSH Member

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    If both sides are willing to take time and work on it, they can figure something among ManU paying a fraction of wages, image rights, jersey sales, special promotions, etc. There's money to be made from "Rooney comes home," but it will take some creativity and effort. It's also a big opportunity cost - the time and funds tied up in Rooney have to come from some place. Which deals don't get done because of a concerted focus on a Wayne?
     
  6. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

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    There's been whispers in some circles that United will let Rooney go where he wants for free as a thank you for his service. Of course, while the PR looks good it would also allow them to eliminate his massive wage.

    I think if Rooney goes to Everton he'd reduce his demands to stay home.
     
  7. coremiller

    coremiller Member SoSH Member

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    If it were a marginal difference, maybe, but United owe him something like 26m for the next two years. On 75k a week at Everton he'd get about 8m. Is he really going to give up 18m (pre-tax) to play for Everton? That's a lot of money.
     
  8. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    Is Everton such a step down from United that Rooney would step in and be a starter? If I'm Everton I feel like I can find a better use for whatever amount of money it costs to get Wazza back.

    And too be fair, I don't watch a ton of PL footy, so I'm legitimately curious.
     
  9. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The Everton midfield is crowded but the roles aren't settled, especially with Barkley iffy. Lookman and Calvert-Lewin are promising but unproven. In last year's side I would have used Rooney as something like a 9 1/2 - not to run the whole attack through him but to have another option up front to link up to Lukaku.
     
  10. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

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    If Rooney goes in on a free and his wages fit into the structure, I don't think it impedes them on any other signings. I mean a Rooney/Everton shirt would be one of the best sellers in the league.
     
  11. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I agree.

    But what else will the club do? Angst on the boards and blogs is palpable. The Pickford underbid is seen as an embarrassment and evidence of same ol Everton. Koeman is trying to take a hard line on the Barkley negotiations- appropriately IMO- but then the club puts out promo materials for the new kit (crappy, btw) with Barkley as the model. The fans say that the board and Kenwright is undercutting Moshiri and Koeman with that.

    Anything short of Moshiri cash + Walsh/Koeman nose for talent/football vision = signings that make Everton contenders for CL will be a failure.

    Can Rooney fit into that? Sure. Does he have more to show then he has done with Utd? Sure, they buried him, when he had to play he did decently, could be a useful piece. For big money? No.
     
  12. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Here's the kit, btw:

    ImageUploadedBySons of Sam Horn1496496819.892933.jpg

    I'll miss Chang. I liked Chang.

    Allying with an African firm is a shrewd marketing move, but top echelon clubs have top echelon sponsors. Being sponsored by a betting site puts us with the Watfords and Swanseas - blech.

    It's the colors though. The Everton royal blue is one of the best uniform colors anywhere. That and white is great. The tiny touch of yellow in the 16/17 kit was nice. The navy here is crap. Looks like a training jersey.
     
  13. jkempa

    jkempa Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Lukaku says he's agreed with another Premier League club, but won't say which one yet.

     
  14. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    At the end of the day I would be surprised if it's anywhere but Chelsea.
     
  15. fletcherpost

    fletcherpost sosh's feckin' poet laureate Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    If the eventual price tag on Lukaku is anything like the figures being bandied about. ie: £100M, i don't think any Toffee fans need to worry about too much money going Rooney's way, or that Rooney money impeding other transfer or wage deals.

    And full marks to me and Zomp - when the question was asked about whether it was a good deal for Everton to buy Lukaku for the 20-odd million they paid, and we said that it was a good deal and could be a great deal (resale value if he has a couple of good seasons)...just not in those exact words.

    Lukaku has been nothing but good for Everton and i hope when he returns to Goodison in another shirt, he is given a great reception. It's looking like a £50M profit or thereabouts.
     
  16. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

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    I had to search the forum to recall that...I'm impressed you remembered.

    So they spent 28 million GBP on him after his loan. He's 24 and scored over 20 goals the last three seasons in the Premier League. I could easily see him go for over 80 million.
     
  17. teddykgb

    teddykgb Member SoSH Member

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    Lukaku is one of those players where I just don't see it. The goal tallies are there and he can really strike it sometimes. But as a player on a top team you need to have it all and he just seems clumsy and not at the required level in touch and dribbling. As a rotation player off the bench, a big target man to offer a different style in certain matchups or when the match isn't going to plan he makes complete sense. But to spend 80 million on him, my eyes just don't see it.
     
  18. Seven Costanza

    Seven Costanza Fred Astaire of SoSH SoSH Member

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    I should know this but I don't- is Lukaku considered homegrown for registration purposes?

    Sorry, just googled it. Apparently he is. 80 million minimum given that for sure.
     
  19. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I agree substantially with this. He's a force of nature physically, like a LeBron or a Gronk in his combination of size, speed, and agility. His striking skills are excellent; he doesn't sky the ball over the crossbar, he hits it with pace and accuracy, and he's great in the air. He is less adept with the ball at his feet, or in making or receiving passes. As I've said before, he starves without service and doesn't get himself into positions to create something out of nothing.

    Ball don't lie, but I think these are all valid concerns.
     
  20. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Everton reach deal for Jordan Pickford:£25 + 5 in various add-ons:

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...erton-special-keeper-jordan-pickford-13178731

    Obviously a big number. Some anxiety on the blogs but you can't have it both ways- biggest knock on the club has been their reluctance to splash the cash.

    I like Pickford and think it more likely that he becomes a star than that he washes out, but who knows for such a young player. It was an area of need.

    Curiously quiet in the Lukaku front.
     
  21. coremiller

    coremiller Member SoSH Member

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    I don't get this deal. Where's the marginal value? Even if they felt a need to upgrade the goalkeeper position, is Pickford really that much better than someone they could have got for 10m?

    I feel like the marginal value difference between a 25m field player and a 10m field player is much bigger than the marginal value between a 25m goalkeeper and a 10m goalkeeper.
     
  22. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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  23. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Quite a lot going on for the Toffees.

    The Sigurdsson rumors above have turned out false - Swansea will not let him go.

    But Klaasen has signed, and today they signed Sandro Ramirez, who had 16 goals in 31 games for Malaga in La Liga last year, and scored in Spain's 3-1 win over Portugal in the U21 Euros. He was primed to go to Atletico Madrid, but coudn't because of their transfer ban. A steal at only 5M.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...sandro-ramirez-steal-signing-everton-13223975

    Barkley seems like a forgotten man; he'll be gone as soon as someone steps forward. Spurs are rumored but nothing yet. Still no movement on the Lukaku front - ManU is mentioned as the other possible suitor than Chelsea, but Lewandowski suddenly seems ready to leave Bayern, so both have been sniffing around him.

    Deloufeu is also up in the air. Everton seemed to have given up on him last year, but he did well at Milan, is having a very good U21 Euro alongside Sandro, and now Barcelona wants to exercise a buy-back clause. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...verton-transfer-news-lukaku-deulofeu-13212589

    And the usual bunch of other rumors. Nothing on Rooney that I've seen.

    The kids have also played very well in the U20 WC, which England won, with Calvert-Lewin and Lookman having excellent tournaments among the five Toffees on the roster.

    Although Pickford was expensive, the blogs are thrilled with the offseason so far. Few fans begrudge the Pickford cash, because the MO has always been to threaten to spend big but then fail to do so. Europa starts in July, so depth will be an issue, and the club seems bent on addressing it.
     
  24. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...s/everton-transfer-news-sandro-keane-13246685

    Sandro Ramirez deal is still not final; expected to close soon, but rumors of being "gazumped" by Real Madrid.

    However: Everton have signed 20 yo Nigerian striker Henry Oyekuru, who scored 22 goals in the Belgian top division last year. He'll be loaned to Anderlecht this year for work permit reasons.

    Also: Toffees are rumored to be frontrunners to grab Michael Keane, who had a stellar year for Burnley.

    Holgate and Pickford had very good tournaments in the U21 WC, where England lost the semifinal in penalties to Germany yesterday (I saw extra time and the penalties; Pickford had a few very good saves and stopped a penalty). Sandro also played well for Spain, who trounced Italy in the other semi.

    Very happy with how this offseason is shaping up so far.
     
  25. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Barcelona buy back Deluofeu.

    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/69/t...ld-break-up-the-msn-at-barcelona?ICID=HP_BN_1

    The subhed of the goal.com piece is "Barca's brilliant trident could be separated next season following the arrival of the Catalan winger on a buy-back deal from Everton on Friday"

    The idea of Deloufeu disrupting the tactical deployment of Messi, Neymar, and the Biter is frankly ludacrisp. Granted, Deloufeu had a very good run of games at Milan after Everton loaned him out. Still, his rep at Everton was a guy with lots of pace who would haul ass to get up the right flank... and then do something stupid/waste the ball. He always seemed to tease more with his potential than he could produce. Maybe he's figured it out. Good for him and Barca if he has. More money for Everton to spend, I suppose.

    Speaking of unrealized potential, it's not like teams are elbowing each other out of the way to grab Ross Barkley. Spurs are still rumored, but don't seem to have much urgency.
     
  26. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    Sandro deal is official via ESPN and various other sites - seems like a very solid Lukaku replacement (and great value at only around £5m) although they are very different types of players.

    Keane also is apparently all but done now as various reports say he was at Everton today for a medical. Another great signing.

    Rooney-to-Everton rumors heating up again as well - I'm less thrilled with these as I can't really see Rooney wanting to just be a role player, but I also can't really see him fitting into the type of fast-paced style Koeman is clearly building towards so I'm not sure where/how he would fit. But he obviously still brings some value so as long as he is fine with a reduced role I probably wouldn't have a major problem with that signing either.
     
  27. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    dp
     
    #27 OilCanShotTupac, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  28. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...s/everton-transfer-news-sandro-keane-13271608

    All of OFC's news, plus:

    -Still trying to get Sigurdsson, but I can't see Swansea letting him go.

    -Training officially opened, very early due to Toffees entering Europa on n third round in late July. Players who have been on international duty haven't had to show up yet and won't have to until next week- but it looks like a non-zero chance that Lukaku or Barkley or both will still be in the fold then.

    -Had been rumors that Chelsea ownership had been pushing Lukaku on Conte but Conte didn't want him. Now supposedly Conte is eager to throw 100M at him. Rumors are worthless of course but it's looking curioser that zip has happened with Lukaku and Chelsea, even with Costa not coming back. There hasn't even been much chatter about whatever negotiations may be going on.


    Edit: Also:

    -Winger Aaron Lennon was in camp. Lennon was found wandering by the side of the road last season and was detained against his wishes pursuant to Britain's Mental Health Act. He was treated for psychiatric illness for a time. Good to see him back, even though he's a little long in the tooth and hasn't been counted upon for major contributions in some time.

    -Many rumors flying about Olivier Giroud. I'm not enthusiastic about that possibility, but some are.
     
  29. Rusty Gate

    Rusty Gate Active Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Great business done so far. Seems like the team is pretty well set, with opportunities available for the young guys to show their stuff with the heavy fixture list.

    Maybe now the play is to push to re-sign Lukaku since the club has shown its ambition. Read that Costa is under contract with Chelsea for 2 more years, and is not making it easy for them.

    If Lukaku does leave, I think Giroud is the perfect short-term replacement; a deadly finisher as a great target for all of the other playmakers.
     
    #29 Rusty Gate, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  30. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    No link but Josh King from Bournemouth also being rumored. Of the two I would rather King- I'm too used to hearing Arsenal fans complain about being let down by Goroud.
     
  31. 67YAZ

    67YAZ Member SoSH Member

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    A team in a Liverpool trying transfer business done? Suspect.

    I'd say the prices are high, but prices are just becoming silly all around. If the new ownership is willing to spend it, then why not.

    What's great about this group of sigjings is that they are all still on the young side with plenty of room for growth. I'm particularly impressed with Klassen. I'm a big fan. His creativity and work rate should bring a more varied, consistent attack and less dependence of Lukaku or Barkley bullying their way to a shot.
     
  32. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Agreed.

    Of the new signings, the only one where the price tag is too high IMO was Pickford; but I guess you can say it's more than offset by Sandro only being 5M, which is first-degree larceny. Then again, it's not my money, so what do I care.

    The point is, as you say, they're all young(ish) with upside, and together with the Everton youth pipeline it's promising. But I'm trying to keep expectations realistic. The opening fixtures are brutal: Stoke/H, Man City/A, Chelsea/A, Spurs/H, Man Utd/A, Bournemouth/H in the first six weeks - with the first Europa tie in late July. Depth and quality will be tested early.
     
  33. 67YAZ

    67YAZ Member SoSH Member

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    That's a rough slate with so many new key players to blend in and what promises to be drawn out sagas involving Lukaku, Barkley, and Rooney. A slow start looks likely. But once clear of Arsenal in October, the fixture list through the holidays looks promising outside of the derby and Man City in December. And it sets up almost the same after Arsenal at the start of February. A second half push seems very possible.

    But what's up with the fullbacks? Can Baines survive the congestion? And what's the plan until Coleman comes back...next year, right? Brutal loss.
     
  34. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

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    Congrats on the Sandro signing. One of the best signings of this transfer period given Sandro's talent, age, and price. There were rumors that Sandro was interested in signing at Atletico but the transfer ban (no new players until January) kept him awy.
     
  35. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Can't link to news app from phone - lots of chatter very suddenly re Rooney to Everton

    Also supposedly 20M for Giroud and serious interest

    Barkley is in camp
     
  36. fletcherpost

    fletcherpost sosh's feckin' poet laureate Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  37. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    Bummer.

    I hope they spend that cash wisely.
     
  38. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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  39. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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  40. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    Wonder if Everton leaked the £75M number to see if Chelsea wouldn't come back with something larger...
     
  41. 67YAZ

    67YAZ Member SoSH Member

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    With Raiola has his agent, Lukaku will end up at ManU. In recent years, Raiola has landed Zlatan!, Sergio Romero, Pogba, and Mkhitaryan there. Raiola current has no players at Chelsea.
     
  42. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

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    To me it seems like there is an initial fee agreed but negotiations over add ons still. I guess deals are never done until the player is holding up the shirt (and even then...John Obi Mikel) but some highly reliable sources have said that Lukaku will become a United player. Not sure how good Paul Joyce is but according to him the deal isn't completed but its expected to go through. United's reliable journos are saying the deal is pretty much done.

    To be honest, in a world where a 19 year old could go for 150 million euros, and left and right backs are being priced at 45 and 50 million pounds, 75 million for Lukaku doesn't seem so bad. A 24 year old who's already proven his quality in the Premier League.
     
  43. fletcherpost

    fletcherpost sosh's feckin' poet laureate Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Makes you wonder what a young Rooney would go for in today's market, cos I dont think Lukaku will ever be the play Rooney was.

    Everton have had a busy window so far. I wonder what the targets for 2017/18 are.

    Edit: In terms of league position etc.
     
  44. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Member SoSH Member

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    The other part of this is that sometimes a player doesn't want to make the switch until after the offseason. Once they sign, the club can obligate them to training. In fact, this happened with Pogba last summer and I read either here or elsewhere that Pogba and Lukaku are touring the US currently. I think Lukaku would be excellent at either club, although a cheaper Morata or James wouldn't be a bad consolation prize.
     
  45. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

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    But thats the thing for United. I think Real are holding out for that much for Morata...who I actually really like but lets see him start for a full season before demanding a top 10 transfer fee hmm? Lukaku is a proven Premier League striker.

    Also the fee for Lukaku might be 75 mil for United but higher for Chelsea if there is an agreement to waive Rooney's transfer fee.
     
  46. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    If Pogba was worth 90M, then Lukaku's a steal at 75.

    Maybe Pogba's deal was so insane that it can't be used as a benchmark, but Lukaku has already been successful in the PL.
     
  47. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

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    On the contrary...Pogba's deal is looking better and better.
     
  48. SoxFanInCali

    SoxFanInCali has the rich, deep voice of a god and the penis of Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  49. swiftaw

    swiftaw Member SoSH Member

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    Apparently Lukaku wants to go to Chelsea, but Raiola wants him to go to United (I assume because he gets a bigger piece of the pie).
     
  50. OilCanShotTupac

    OilCanShotTupac Sunny von Bulow Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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