Drew v. 2.0

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Sampo Gida

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Paradigm said:
I think there's a sliver of a chance that these negotiations could get interesting. 
 
With Jeter's impending retirement, the Yankees need a long-term shortstop for 2015 and beyond. They have nobody in their farm (shock!) to fill the role. They'd be significantly better at 2B and 3B this year with Drew playing one of those positions, and he can move to SS next year. O/U's just put them at 83.5 wins this year. Improving on Brendan Ryan or Kelly Johnson would be a smart idea.
 
The Red Sox, meanwhile, would only get the 56th pick in next year's draft if he signs with the Yankees. Valuable, sure, but not a pick that should be expected to materially improve a top-five farm system. Also not a pick that the Yankees need to protect. (side note: why can't the damn Angels or Giants sign Drew so the Sox can reap a top 15 pick?)
 
Boras can pitch Drew to the Yankees and make a pretty good case. He can take this back to the Red Sox and caution them that Drew could stay in the division, and that the Sox won't even get much of a draft pick for him. Do the Sox want to match?
 
But what are they matching? Who are the Yankees bidding against (if they're bidding at all in this hypothetical situation)? How many years do they have to go and for how much money? Do they want to sign Drew to a four year deal for low money so that he can lock up shortstop for 2015-2017? Do they have to offer him a lot of money if no other team bids?
 
Would the Red Sox match with a one year deal at higher money and give him an opt-out to add depth this year and block him from going to the Yankees this year? Does that work for Drew so that he can hit the open market again next year?
 
Even without Jeters announcement Drew made perfect sense for the Yankees, mainly as insurance in 2014 and then as the bridge to the next SS of the future beyond 2014.  With Arods AAV coming back on the books in 2015-2017 and nothing in the farm, they need an affordable bridge to 2017-2018.  Drews only 31 and has only had 1 significant injury in his career, albeit a serious one that spanned 2 seasons.  He is certainly affordable at this point and only costs them a 2nd round pick.
 
I was wondering if Jeters announcement was a sign they have signed Drew.  Jeter was perhaps asked to hold off on announcing so they could get the best deal for Drew, and he would want to announce his retirement before the Drew deal was announced since it would look like he was being forced out. Now it can look like a response to the news Jeter is retiring.  We shall see if that's the case in the next week or so,
 
I doubt the Red Sox get into a bidding war over Drew and suspect they have moved on.  They can't say they are out since under the new CBA that's no longer allowed. The MLBPA argued doing so was potentially collusive..
 

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As for the Yankees 2015 SS, I'd offer that Hanley may be available. Much more Yankee type signing.
 

JimD

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Paradigm said:
I think there's a sliver of a chance that these negotiations could get interesting. 
 
With Jeter's impending retirement, the Yankees need a long-term shortstop for 2015 and beyond. They have nobody in their farm (shock!) to fill the role. They'd be significantly better at 2B and 3B this year with Drew playing one of those positions, and he can move to SS next year. O/U's just put them at 83.5 wins this year. Improving on Brendan Ryan or Kelly Johnson would be a smart idea.
 
The Red Sox, meanwhile, would only get the 56th pick in next year's draft if he signs with the Yankees. Valuable, sure, but not a pick that should be expected to materially improve a top-five farm system. Also not a pick that the Yankees need to protect. (side note: why can't the damn Angels or Giants sign Drew so the Sox can reap a top 15 pick?)
 
Boras can pitch Drew to the Yankees and make a pretty good case. He can take this back to the Red Sox and caution them that Drew could stay in the division, and that the Sox won't even get much of a draft pick for him. Do the Sox want to match?
 
But what are they matching? Who are the Yankees bidding against (if they're bidding at all in this hypothetical situation)? How many years do they have to go and for how much money? Do they want to sign Drew to a four year deal for low money so that he can lock up shortstop for 2015-2017? Do they have to offer him a lot of money if no other team bids?
 
Would the Red Sox match with a one year deal at higher money and give him an opt-out to add depth this year and block him from going to the Yankees this year? Does that work for Drew so that he can hit the open market again next year?
 
The worst thing the Red Sox could do is start worrying about what the Yankees front office is going to do.  Ben needs to stick to his own plan and adjust to the larger market forces at play, not to what any one team is doing.  Besides, if the Sox were ever going to try and block NY from signing one of their players, it would have made sense to do so for Ellsbury.
 

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
Where does an opt out fit in on a one year deal?
 
June.
 
 
Also, Jeter's retirement makes me really want to sign Drew on a nice cheap two year deal just so we can trade him to Cincy at the deadline.
 

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So, the fine folks at the Fireside Chats podcast put out their first episode of 2014 and they started off by talking about Stephen Drew and I almost did y'all a favor and shot myself.
 

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
So you give him the ability to opt out mid season? Is that even allowed?
 
It is if it's a minor league deal.  But I think we are still light years from a situation where Drew is going to accept a minor league deal from anyone, let alone a team with a potentially generational talent penciled into his primary position.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Isn't he signing with the Yankees? Just waiting for Jeter to have his big press conference? He's not going to the Mets or Red Sox....
 

Rasputin

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
So you give him the ability to opt out mid season?
 
That was a joke, son. I say, I say, I say, that was a joke.
 
 
Clears Cleaver said:
Isn't he signing with the Yankees? Just waiting for Jeter to have his big press conference? He's not going to the Mets or Red Sox....
 
The Mets should sign him just so they can trade him to the Yankees when Jeter explodes.
 

Hoplite

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With Dempster taking a year off, we now have the financial flexibility to sign... Bogaerts to an extension.
 

Rasputin

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[QUOTE="Hriniak]
 
The Southern accent may sound legit to you, but you're not fooling your neighbors.
[/QUOTE]
I have been saying y'all since I was a kid and I have literally not said ten words to the neighbors the whole time I've been here.
 

wyatt55

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Rasputin said:
 
That was a joke, son. I say, I say, I say, that was a joke.
 
 
 
The Mets should sign him just so they can trade him to the Yankees when Jeter explodes.
You gotta keep your eye on the ball son! Eye! Ball! Get it?

You're built too low to the ground son. All the good ones keep going over your head.

Back to Drew, cue the Yankee press conference in 3, 2, 1 ...
 

Rasputin

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[QUOTE="Hriniak]
 
What about boiled peanuts, though? (I would apologize for derailing the thread, but...)
[/QUOTE]
I had one.
 

Hoplite

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Why don't the Red Sox just go public with a deadline to accept their offer or they'll pull it? You would think that would cause some kind of resolution and Farrell has said he doesn't want the idea of Drew still being out there to be hanging over the heads of other members of the team. If they're pretending to be interested just to inflate Drew's market, I think they've just about exhausted that option.
 

SaveBooFerriss

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The Red Sox don't negotiate in public.  What is value of publicly giving Drew a deadline to accept an offer vs. privately giving a deadline?  Besides letting the rest of the world know your business, I do not see any value.  
 

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SaveBooFerriss said:
The Red Sox don't negotiate in public.  What is value of publicly giving Drew a deadline to accept an offer vs. privately giving a deadline?  Besides letting the rest of the world know your business, I do not see any value.  
...aside from the accelerated demise of this thread.
 
But Boo is right -- even if they're not enhancing their own leverage, they're doing Drew a solid by enhancing his bargaining position so it still includes the possibility of a return to Boston.
 

joe dokes

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soxhop411 said:
fwiw
 
https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/435874477293854720
 
I'm sure the source wasn't Boras. He would never use a mouthpiece like that.
 
As was probably often said when Bowden was still a GM, I'm not even sure what the last half of that sentence ("including an owner") even means. 
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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SaveBooFerriss said:
The Red Sox don't negotiate in public.  What is value of publicly giving Drew a deadline to accept an offer vs. privately giving a deadline?  Besides letting the rest of the world know your business, I do not see any value.  
 
It puts this thread and all the mediot speculation to rest.  But since all that has absolutely zero impact on the day-to-day operations of the team, there's no reason for the team to worry about it.
 

SaveBooFerriss

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joe dokes said:
 
 
 
As was probably often said when Bowden was still a GM, I'm not even sure what the last half of that sentence ("including an owner") even means. 
 
I think the only reasonable interpretation is that an owner of one of the four teams "in" on Drew is actively involved in the negotiations.  I am certain that the Red Sox owners are not involved in any Drew negotiations. 
 

Hoplite

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SaveBooFerriss said:
The Red Sox don't negotiate in public.  What is value of publicly giving Drew a deadline to accept an offer vs. privately giving a deadline?  Besides letting the rest of the world know your business, I do not see any value.  
 
You're right, it would be very un-Sox like to make it public. They don't necessarily have to make the deadline public, but Farrell has said publicly that they want a resolution soon. A non-public deadline would most likely accomplish that and would prevent players currently in camp (Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Herrera, possibly Holt) from having to worry about Drew hanging over their heads.
 

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joe dokes said:
 
I'm sure the source wasn't Boras. He would never use a mouthpiece like that.
 
That's true. He would use Heyman.
 
 
SaveBooFerriss said:
 
 I am certain that the Red Sox owners are not involved in any Drew negotiations. 
 
Right, because if there's one thing Larry Lucchino would never do, it would be sidelining his GM on a sensitive personnel decision.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hoplite said:
 
You're right, it would be very un-Sox like to make it public. They don't necessarily have to make the deadline public, but Farrell has said publicly that they want a resolution soon. A non-public deadline would most likely accomplish that and would prevent players currently in camp (Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Herrera, possibly Holt) from having to worry about Drew hanging over their heads.
 
The only public resolution would be Drew signing elsewhere.  If they're worried about how Drew still being out there is going to affect the players in camp, I'm not sure they can do anything aside from continuing to do nothing.  It's all lip service, whether they're talking at the media or those players.  These players have to be smart enough to realize that if Drew were a real threat to their playing time in 2014, he'd be in camp already.  If the media could accept this as well, all would be right with the world.
 

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Average Reds said:
 
I think Bowden has been talking to his pals who play fantasy baseball.
Or maybe the Pirates are trying to figure out if Drew makes them good enough to warrant increasing the budget.

Or the same for the Reds.
 

Hoplite

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Rasputin said:
Or maybe the Pirates are trying to figure out if Drew makes them good enough to warrant increasing the budget.

Or the same for the Reds.
 
I don't think the Pirates makes sense. They just let Burnett walk over a few million and they already have Mercer and Barnes to cover shortstop.
 
The Boomer said:
I didn't see this posted (though I might have missed it) but, apparently, the Yankees had an offer on the table earlier this winter but (if you believe it) this was withdrawn because the Yankees have now "clamped down" on their budget:
 
http://nypost.com/2014/02/18/yankees-dont-think-they-need-stephen-drew-but-theyre-wrong/
 
It was also reported today that Boras is still holding out for $14 million and no one is interested.
 
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/18/stephen-drew-still-wants-14-million-the-mets-arent-biting/
 
That's why I'm not buying that if we had any interest, he'd already be on the team. I think Boras is desperate at this point to try to avoid a huge loss by turning down not only the qualifying offer and then a 2-3 year deal from the Yankees, and now he's unable to even recoup the amount Drew would have gotten from the qualifying offer. But at some point, he's going to have to drop his asking price so Drew can play somewhere.
 

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I think the QO is going to be accepted more and more due to the plight of Drew and others.

That will force teams to be more careful offering it....and break this cycle.

The system failed Drew here.
 

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bosockboy said:
I think the QO is going to be accepted more and more due to the plight of Drew and others.

That will force teams to be more careful offering it....and break this cycle.

The system failed Drew here.
 
I don't get this.
 
The QO has been rejected by Drew, he cannot go back and accept it now.
 
It is true that it hurt him though, as it did several others.
 

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bosockboy

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trekfan55 said:
 
I don't get this.
 
The QO has been rejected by Drew, he cannot go back and accept it now.
 
It is true that it hurt him though, as it did several others.
I meant in the future.  Boras misread the market and should've accepted the QO.
 

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trekfan55 said:
 
I don't get this.
 
The QO has been rejected by Drew, he cannot go back and accept it now.
 
It is true that it hurt him though, as it did several others.
 
I believe he was saying that based on Drew's offseason, FUTURE free agents will be more likely to accept it
 

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bosockboy said:
I think the QO is going to be accepted more and more due to the plight of Drew and others.

That will force teams to be more careful offering it....and break this cycle.

The system failed Drew here.
The system didn't fail Drew.  Drew and more specifically his agent, misread the market for him in light of the QO.
 

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Let's not write the obituary of Drew's career just yet.  There is still a lot of time until OPening Day.  Boras and Drew may have simply decided to wait for some team to suffer a SS injury that ratchets up his value.  I don't think it takes a grand leap of faith to imagine Jeter rolling an ankle or pulling a hammy in March and suddenly, Drew is worth 3/$40.  Then add the aggregate of probablilities that other teams' starting SS could be injured and you may end up with a number high enough to justify Drew's waiting.

A risky strategy for sure, but it is one that might play out to be worthwhile.  If it does play out that way, we'll all be talking again about how much smarter Boras is than the rest of the herd.
 

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Dewy4PrezII said:
The system didn't fail Drew.  Drew and more specifically his agent, misread the market for him in light of the QO.
 
I'm still not convinced they did. The season hasn't started yet. Hell, the pre-season hasn't really even started yet.
 

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Every offseason, we hear that a Boras client is getting screwed because Boras misreads the market, and almost every time, the client eventually gets a contract that ends the discussion.
 
I get that Drew is in a bad place here.  But he didn't get screwed by the system and he didn't get screwed by his agent.  He's a big boy and he's responsible for his own decisions.  And I have no doubt that if the market were truly barren for Drew, he'd accept a one year deal that was similar to what he got last year so he can hit the reboot button.
 
In short, he'll be fine. 
 

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Rasputin said:
 
June.
 
 
Also, Jeter's retirement makes me really want to sign Drew on a nice cheap two year deal just so we can trade him to Cincy at the deadline.
 
Thank you. At least this thread finally made me laugh.
 

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Average Reds said:
Every offseason, we hear that a Boras client is getting screwed because Boras misreads the market, and almost every time, the client eventually gets a contract that ends the discussion.
 
I get that Drew is in a bad place here.  But he didn't get screwed by the system and he didn't get screwed by his agent.  He's a big boy and he's responsible for his own decisions.  And I have no doubt that if the market were truly barren for Drew, he'd accept a one year deal that was similar to what he got last year so he can hit the reboot button.
 
In short, he'll be fine. 
I never said he got screwed...but I think they did misread the market given the QO.  If they hadn't they would have signed a deal before the start of spring training.  if they wait it out and someone gets injured then they will end up getting lucky, The fact that he has not signed yet indicates that they misread the market and if he takes a 1yr deal for less than the QO that just cements my case.
 

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I don't think that a one year deal for less than the QO is necessarily worse for Drew than having accepted it. Despite what we think might have happened, there's a very good chance that if he came back to Boston, he would not have been the starting SS. If he was told the position was X's and he would be coming back as the utility guy, a one year deal somewhere else where he could be the starting SS would be better for him in the long term.
 

Hoplite

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LeoCarrillo said:
Who's gonna give up a pick for one year of Drew?
 
Among the more poorly run teams, the Mets are the only team I can think of with a need for a shortstop. And that isn't the most friendly ballpark for a hitter on a pillow contract. I imagine he's sitting at home right now wondering what Jeff Gillooly's up to.
 

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Hoplite said:
 
Among the more poorly run teams, the Mets are the only team I can think of with a need for a shortstop. And that isn't the most friendly ballpark for a hitter on a pillow contract. I imagine he's sitting at home right now wondering what Jeff Gillooly's up to.
 
I was actually thinking that maybe there's an odd opportunity here for the Mets to go pillow contract on Drew, since they're only giving up a third-round pick (first-round protected, gave up second round for Granderson). The idea would be that if he has a good 2014, you offer a QO and if he signs elsewhere you've picked up a 1st round supplemental in exchange for a third rounder. 
 

Sampo Gida

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LeoCarrillo said:
Who's gonna give up a pick for one year of Drew?
 
A 2nd round or less maybe. 
 
I still think he is going to get a longer deal though.  There are teams who have a need at 2B this year, and will have a potential hole at SS next year.  If Drew could play 2B this year I can see where the Orioles or even the Dodgers might have an interest in him.  Drew could then move to SS when Hanley or JJ Hardy leave, if they leave.  If they are resigned, Drew could still be easily moved in a trade, or he could stay at 2B if he performed well there.
 
He could also wait till June and still go for a 3 yr deal as the rose tint spectacles teams wear in ST come off and the reality of what they have at SS sinks in.  No draft pick compensation to tie him down then.
 
Once Diaz signs, we could see some movement on Drew though.
 

Sampo Gida

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NoXInNixon said:
I don't think that a one year deal for less than the QO is necessarily worse for Drew than having accepted it. Despite what we think might have happened, there's a very good chance that if he came back to Boston, he would not have been the starting SS. If he was told the position was X's and he would be coming back as the utility guy, a one year deal somewhere else where he could be the starting SS would be better for him in the long term.
 
Well, I doubt the Red Sox would pay him 14 million to be on the bench.  He probably takes WMB's spot at 3B and is insurance for XB at SS.  However, his market value would take a hit after 2014 playing out of position or if he was injured, although he likely would have no QO to tie him down.
 
In hindsight, maybe he takes the QO, but did anyone really think Drew would have had trouble landing a 3/30-3/35 million deal?.   Players sacrifice AAV for more years and total dollars all the time.
 

Sprowl

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Most unloved World Series-winning starting shortstop in history? There are gluts at the most valuable positions: starting pitcher and shortstop. Overcompensation finally overran its market.
 

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Sprowl said:
Most unloved World Series-winning starting shortstop in history? There are gluts at the most valuable positions: starting pitcher and shortstop. Overcompensation finally overran its market.
Not in a world in which Julio Lugo exists.
 

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I'm actually a bit shocked - but quite pleased - that they Yankees haven't pursued Drew more aggressively. With all the silly money they've thrown around this offseason it doesn't make any sense to begin the season with their current disaster of an infield when a likely bargain like Drew is still available. I mean, how many games do they really think Jeter is going to play at SS? And is Brian Roberts  (who hasn't anything close to a full - or good- season since 2009) actually penciled in as their starting second baseman? And do they actually see Kelly Johnson as their starting third basemen? I mean come on, is this really the Yankees we're talking about?
3 years 30 million (heck at this point they could probably get him for 3/27) would be a great deal for both sides. Drew gets his longterm deal and the Yanks end up with legit options at 3b (because of course, there is no friggin way that Captain Intangibles puts team first and moves from short) and 2b (in Johnson who can replace Roberts)  for this year  and a solid starter at SS for 2015 and 2016. Hope it doesn't happen but it really seems like the most logical scenario for both the Yanks and Drew...
 
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