Drew is walking through that door

[ivanvamp]

43 games. They gave X 43 games at short. And all parties admitted he was getting better in the field, even Nick Cafardo. So you've got a young player working hard to get himself established at short, all while still contributing offensively, and you pull the plug at 43 games. It simply doesn't make any sense. And now the kid is crushed and his confidence shaken, all for a move that has zero long term benefit.

If WMB is the real issue here, then perhaps the Sox could have gone out and picked up a third baseman, instead of dicking around with their most promising young player. They set a course over the offseason with Xat short and then abandoned it before Memorial Day. That's reminiscent of the 2012 team and not that of last year's World Champions. Have some courage in your convictions, for crissakes.

 
If X is so fragile that he can't move back to SS in 2015, then we have bigger problems.  This was, IMO, not about Xander *at all*.  It works because he demonstrated that he could handle 3b, and they had a need at this point to improve on the left side of the IF.  

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

sorry---dont know where else to put this gammo comment from today,while writing about drew:
 
 The “Idiots” that ended the 86 year drought in 2004 turned against Terry Francona in 2005 when he didn’t name some of them to the All-Star Team, and it’s really hard to turn against Francona.
 
anyone else heard this before?

 
There were certainly stories of discord in the clubhouse during that season.  Millar was a particularly squeaky wheel.  I don't remember anything specific about the all star stuff, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were grumblings in the clubhouse about Timlin and maybe Wakefield too.  But as I recall, most of the pitching decisions were out of Francona's hands that year, so if that was the reason for player disappointment, it was aimed at the wrong guy.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Clement made the AS team in 2005. Now that's charity (to be fair he was decent in the first half). How pissed could the players really have been?

 

[YTF]

Bogaerts is already making the mental adjustment to making the switch. That throw he airmailed over Napoli's head last night would have been chest high from third.

 

[67WasBest]

Sorry, but the negative reactions to this deal are too extreme.  The Sox, under Henry, have always been about winning in the present.  That credo got them in trouble a few years back, but this deal has no resemblance to the franchise future compromising deals they were making then.
 
Pro
SS defense improves
3B defense improves
3B offense improves
The overall roster is wildly happy about the move
There is no obligation past 2014 (could be a con also)
Pitching staff is more relaxed
The move cost the organization nothing but money they had budgeted
The team improves versus RH pitching - a real sore spot thus far
 
Con
A season of development at SS for X is lost
A full season o development of WMB is lost (n/m, it was looking to be already lost)
 
Do the Sox make this deal if any other AL East team got off to a fast start and were 6 games up?  Perhaps not.  The injuries that have befallen Tampa, Baltimore and NY, combined with the weak pitching present in Baltimore, NY and Toronto, makes the AL East eminently winnable with the squad they have.  To not take advantage of this "Pass Go, and enter the playoffs" card would be a waste.
 
As for any disappointment expressed by X.  I would be upset if he hadn't indicated some disappointment.  He's an elite athlete and as such wants to be the center of his universe.  His importance to this team has not been diminished; on the contrary, it has been enhanced by his ability to capably man two positions.  If they win this year, this deal, and the solidifying of two positions, will be seen as the catalyst that made it happen and X will be seen as a selfless superstar, further enhancing his reputation to the public.. 

 

[67WasBest]

sorry---dont know where else to put this gammo comment from today,while writing about drew:
 
 The “Idiots” that ended the 86 year drought in 2004 turned against Terry Francona in 2005 when he didn’t name some of them to the All-Star Team, and it’s really hard to turn against Francona.
 
anyone else heard this before?

Just reread Feeding the Monster and Seth Mnookian wrote about this as a real fact.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Sorry, but the negative reactions to this deal are too extreme.  The Sox, under Henry, have always been about winning in the present.  That credo got them in trouble a few years back, but this deal has no resemblance to the franchise future compromising deals they were making then.
 
Pro
SS defense improves
3B defense improves
3B offense improves

Sorry but no. SS defense improves. SS offense gets worse. 3B defense gets worse. 3B offense improves.

I'm with SJH. This move doesn't significantly improve the team in the short term, it screws with Bogaerts' development, and while it's only money it could've been spent on something else like maybe an adequate catcher. There's no guarantee Drew hits like he did last year either.

As for Hoplight's I told you so moment, no one ever said Drew wasn't a good player. But a lot of us felt that it was time to transition to Bogaerts and spend the money elsewhere. And no one could've guessed that Drew wouldn't sign with someone and give the Sox a comp pick. So just because something you said months ago ended up happening still doesn't mean it's the correct move.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If there's a black hole at 3B, common sense would dictate they go get a third baseman.

The organixation is indeed bigger than one player. Long term, this organization would be better with X developing into a full time SS. Chasing short term gains and pissing away a chance to get their best prospect established is short sighted and stupid. You're essentially taking the Cora position in2007. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

 
It is bigger than one player, which is why this is the right move.  This was the best possible use of the resources they had available to them to fix a problem that may well have been the difference between a playoff spot and going home early this season.  This Red Sox team is struggling to get over .500, so I don't think questioning whether they were, as presently constituted, likely to make even the wild card game is an overreaction.  By stabilizing the infield defense and improving the offense overall, specifically by bringing the OBP of that 3rd base roster spot up, could lead to significant gains in actual wins on the field.
 
The cascading effect of individual OBP players on a high OBP lineup has been discussed here plenty of times over the last year.  Drew had a .333 OBP last year and has a .329 OBP for his career.  The Red Sox have gotten a .309 OBP out of third base this season.  Drew's addition to the lineup can have a significant impact on their ability to score runs.  It's not the only problem the offense needs to solve, but now that it's addressed, the team can focus on what it needs to do to bring up the OBP's of other individual positions where they are struggling, like CF, RF and C.  I'm sure they are hoping that center and right straighten themselves out with JBJ getting comfortable and Victorino getting healthy.  Catcher isn't likely to get much better this year, but getting down to one low OBP position would go a long way toward this team scoring runs at an elite level again.
 
Drew is a great way to take a big step in that direction.

 

[DJnVa]

My introduction to SOSH was essentially posters telling me how I didn't know what I was talking about for suggesting we'd have a use for Drew and that we shouldn't count of Middlebroks. This page caputures most of it:
 
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/79282-drew-v-20/page-14

 
Do all you guys want some badge to wear around? We get it.
 
Does this mean next time you're wrong we can post links to it?

 

[DJnVa]

If WMB is the real issue here, then perhaps the Sox could have gone out and picked up a third baseman,

 
Per Lauber they tried this. There was no market.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Sorry but no. SS defense improves. SS offense gets worse. 3B defense gets worse. 3B offense improves.

 
I'm not sure that short stop offense is going to get worse.  I think it's going to stay roughly the same, if you look beyond just OBP.  Yes, Xander is likely to have .030 to .040 more OBP, but Drew may well have more power in the short term.  We're all hoping that as the weather warms up, Bogaerts will start hitting home runs more frequently, but it's possible that the power hitting version of him won't actually arrive until 2015 or even 2016.
 
And even if it does and Bogaerts becomes a 370/450 hitter for the rest of the year, Drew is still replacing the MIddlebrooks/Holt/Herrera roster spot, not Xander.  I completely understand the desire to have Bogaerts get entrenched at short stop.  I've been a strong advocate of keeping him there as long as you can, but third base offense in general has been weak for a while now, so Xander's bat plays there almost as well as it would play at short.  If he ends up there earlier than we'd like, it's not as huge a drop as it was in years past.
 
That said, if he's getting time at short against lefties, his development there might not be completely lost this year.  I know people are going to argue that it's "jerking him around" and will damage him, but I'm not convinced that is the case.  Just because something isn't done often, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done.  The Red Sox apparently plan to do it, so they must have a reason to think it's worth doing.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

The Sox are already third in the league in OBP, though (oddly, Oakland & Minnesota (!) are higher). Slugging has been a far bigger problem (11th and 5% below the league average). Next to last in SB's, last in SB %.

That being said, Sox 3B have slugged .298, so if Drew can approximate what he did last year (.443) it will have a huge impact.

 
Again, though, high OBP lineups benefit more from adding individual players with high OBP's than lineups without consistently high OBP's.  Also, the Red Sox are getting their high OBP mostly from DH, 1B and SS.  After that it's 2nd base (Almost entirely Pedroia) with a .344, then we drop down to .319 in left field.  So in addition to any slugging help Drew can bring to the lineup, his higher OBP will help to stabilize the lineup and should lead to a higher rate of runners scoring.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Snod, two things.

First, he was going position by position, not me. Yes, Drew replaces WMB in the lineup but he's replacing X at SS.

Second, you're assuming that after not playing for almost 7 months Drew will hit like he did last year. I think that's very optimistic.

 

[Puffy]

I believe Dave Cameron made the point that this also prevents a competitor (like Detroit or someone else down the line) from signing Drew to upgrade at the SS position. So rather than the Red Sox having to venture into the trade market to fill any holes on the left side between now and August, it may be Detroit that may have to scramble or overpay at the deadline. It's a fringe benefit, but if the Sox get a little stronger and the competition gets a little weaker, it's another positive.

 

[67WasBest]

3B defense gets worse.

This move doesn't significantly improve the team in the short term,
 
it screws with Bogaerts' development

3B defense gets worse????  Not possible, WoMBat is just average with the leather, but his inability to stay in the game inside his head is maddening.  He never seems to be where he should be.
 
To take this as a purely linear statistical review, you would be accurate.  But statistics alone don't write the narrative.  The stats don't detail how much "trust in his fielders" plays into a pitchers psyche and his confidence to throw the exact pitch that must be thrown in a given situation, it doesn't detail how much an error erodes the team spirit, especially in a close game.  These "intangibles" are known by ballplayers.
 
XBs development will continue with him getting time at two positions.  Many greats started at multiple positions as youngsters, Cabrera (1B, 3B, RF, LF), Pulholz (3B, LF), Yaz (2B) and most recently Muchado and Profar.  There is little evidence this move will damage him, or the team, to any measurable level.
 
The Sox are always in it to win.  The recent past showed us that philosophy almost cost them their future, but they learned from their mistakes and make moves that cause little to no long term impact.  Based on the drek that is the AL East this year, it makes sense to make a move that tightens up the team, perhaps restores some of the spirit of 2013, but most of all, does nothing to disrupt the future, in an effort to secure that AL East playoff spot.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Snod, two things.

First, he was going position by position, not me. Yes, Drew replaces WMB in the lineup but he's replacing X at SS.

Second, you're assuming that after not playing for almost 7 months Drew will hit like he did last year. I think that's very optimistic.

 
I don't think he'll hit like that right away, but I think there's a pretty good chance that by the time we get to the trade deadline or so, he will be back to his 2013 form or something close to it.  The goal is to make the playoffs with a chance to win there.  Signing Drew is not about winning games next week or maybe not even necessarily next month.  It's about getting lined up for the stretch run and hopefully the playoffs.
 
And I know you weren't the one who brought up position by position, I was just using that as an entry point to that part of the conversation.  I don't think looking at it on a micro level like that is all that productive, and that seemed like as good a point as any to make that argument.  I didn't mean to single you out.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Fair enough. But if he hits like WMB until July 31 they may not be in a position to make the playoffs anyway.

 

[ivanvamp]

Fair enough. But if he hits like WMB until July 31 they may not be in a position to make the playoffs anyway.

 
Yep. But then all it will have cost them is some money.  Plus a little developmental time for X at SS.  But at his age, that shouldn't really be much of a problem.

 

[keninten]

Bogaerts gets an upclose look at a good SS and gets to play often enough to put his observations to good use. Before a pitch he can see how Drew positions and watch his footwork during plays. So I wouldn`t say it completely hurts his chances at developing at SS.

 

[DanoooME]

Who says the defense HAS to improve at 3B by having X moving over there?  The guy has had a whopping 19 career games at the position.  It's not like it's automatically easier that he's going to play better there, even ignoring his reactions mentioned above.  It's still going to be a learning process, except at a position he has less experience and comfort with.
 
To me Middlebrooks is at worst an average 3B and I think he's better than that.  This may end up being a wash overall for the team and then all that happened is losing the X development time, which, I don't care who you are, is significant.  Especially now, a time when he admitted himself he was starting to really get comfortable.
 
They better make the playoffs after this, or else they are really screwing the pooch.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

SJH, your comments are accurate unless the long term plan is to have Xander at 3rd base. I appreciate that a full potential WMB makes that approach suspect, but the jury's still out.
 
I like the move only because I'm old fashioned in thinking a defense-first shortstop is more important than one who brings unusually good hitting to the position. Maybe that's from watching CI for too many years. Maybe it's from watching Iglesias last year.
 
Machado was mentioned upthread. He was raised as a shortstop but has brought great defense and corner-infield hitting excellence to the Orioles. I'm trying to think if a fantasy Orioles team of Machado at SS and WMB/Cecchini at 3rd is better than one with Machado at 3rd and, say, a light-hitting Marrero at SS. I don't know.
 
Machado is in the bloodline of Nomar/Jeter/Rodriguez/Tulowitski shortstops. Maybe Xander is also, but unless an all-star 3rd baseman is walking through that door, I think the long term plans for the team are better with Xander growing into the all-star 3rd baseman he is, with a gold glove caliber SS next to him. 

 

[Reverend]

I'm not convinced they could have gotten a 3B on the market. Indeed, it was reported that they said that the trade market for this season hasn't developed yet, which means they'd have to offer a king's ransom to prod a team into action.
 
There was, however, a quality SS available for straight ca$h. In a way, I see this is them using their existing situation given the constraints of the market to generate depth. Bogaerts can play both left side positions, there's a SS available, you just lost a 3B. If we weren't so excited about X as a prospect with amazing value if he can stick at SS, this would be a straight up no brainer.
 
Granted, he is that last thing. But I have trouble imagining that 60 games at third instead of short is going to crash his fielding abilities, especially if he platoons at SS. If he got hurt, would people think he'd forget everything about playing SS? He might even benefit from watching Drew, who hopefully won't have as much trouble getting a late start this year since he's not recovering from a concussion.

 

[EvilEmpire]

I like the move only because I'm old fashioned in thinking a defense-first shortstop is more important than one who brings unusually good hitting to the position. Maybe that's from watching CI for too many years.

Jeter is probably exhibit A on how a below-average to poor defensive SS with great offensive skills can be very valuable to a championship team. The Sox could do much worse, I think.

 

[Wallball Tingle]

I'm for this, on the whole.  Bogaerts should routinely get reps at short against lefties, and we get back last season's defensive keystone.  I always think of that play Drew made with Cabrera batting against Tazawa (for the third time that series!) in ALCS 6 last year.  That ball gets through, and the whole tone of the game is different.
 
Also, last year Drew had two extra-inning walkoff hits (against Minnesota and Seattle), a 3-run shot to go ahead in the 9th against Houston, and that hit off Mariano to tie the game after the Yanks' furious comeback in Game 1 of that September series at Yankee Stadium.  Clutch may not be real, but I do believe Drew has a "I'm the same in the batter's box whatever the game situation" attitude that pays off well in this particular fishbowl.

 

[ivanvamp]

Who says the defense HAS to improve at 3B by having X moving over there?  The guy has had a whopping 19 career games at the position.  It's not like it's automatically easier that he's going to play better there, even ignoring his reactions mentioned above.  It's still going to be a learning process, except at a position he has less experience and comfort with.
 
To me Middlebrooks is at worst an average 3B and I think he's better than that.  This may end up being a wash overall for the team and then all that happened is losing the X development time, which, I don't care who you are, is significant.  Especially now, a time when he admitted himself he was starting to really get comfortable.
 
They better make the playoffs after this, or else they are really screwing the pooch.

 
Do people here really think that moving a 21-year old from SS to 3b for the last 2/3 of a season, with the plan being to move him back to SS after that (assuming that's the plan…who knows), will screw the pooch if it doesn't result in a playoff appearance?  I mean, is X really incapable of going back to SS at the ripe old age of 22, should that be what they decide to do?

 

[HillysLastWalk]

On top of that, how many people here referenced Cal Ripken as an example as to why you shouldn't worry about X's defense?  Meanwhile, this same Cal Ripken:
 

Cal Ripken, who entered pro ball as a shortstop, was groomed primarily as a third baseman in the upper minors and at the start of his big league career before heading back to short.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Lambolt - If you can't make your point without using sexist language then don't bother posting.

 

[cannonball 1729]

On top of that, how many people here referenced Cal Ripken as an example as to why you shouldn't worry about X's defense?  Meanwhile, this same Cal Ripken:
 

 
Funny, I almost posted - word for word - the same thing.  Ripken was named the third baseman of the future while he was still in single-A.  It wasn't until (coincidentally enough) his age 22 season that Ripken spent a whole year at short.

 

[URI]

Lambolt - If you can't make your point without using sexist language then don't bother posting.

 
Additionally, if you can't make your point without sounding like a sports radio caller who suffered a major head injury, don't bother posting either.

 

[alwyn96]

On top of that, how many people here referenced Cal Ripken as an example as to why you shouldn't worry about X's defense?  Meanwhile, this same Cal Ripken:
 

 
I'm not sure what argument your quote is making. It would seem like being groomed for 3B didn't effect Ripken's ability to play SS long term, right? Another similar (and probably meaningless) anecdote is Manny Machado, who played all of 4 minor league games at 3B before debuting in MLB as a fantastic defender there. So we're all set!  :buddy:
 
Of course, we don't really know how Bogaerts specifically might compare to Middlebrooks at 3B long term. Middlebrooks was averagish, probably. Bogaerts looked ok at 3B last year, but I think only time will tell whether he's as good or better than Middlebrooks defensively. 

 

[HillysLastWalk]

I was adding on to the previous post above mine:
 

Do people here really think that moving a 21-year old from SS to 3b for the last 2/3 of a season, with the plan being to move him back to SS after that (assuming that's the plan…who knows), will screw the pooch if it doesn't result in a playoff appearance?  I mean, is X really incapable of going back to SS at the ripe old age of 22, should that be what they decide to do?

 
Typically, if I'm addressing the post above mine, I won't quote it.
 
Personally, I think a lot of the hand-wringing over X is misplaced.  I won't rehash every agrument, but to agree with a lot of others, this is more about WMB than X.  Especially when WMB is going to miss months because of a fractured finger.
 
Also, in the back of my mind, I'm referencing this specific thread from a few weeks back: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/83042-how-concened-about-xander-bogaerts-defense/
 
People were getting up in arms about X's defense, and there was a lot of Cal Ripken talk in there (Cal wasn't that good apparently, but made himself into a good defensive SS).  Hence, the reason I threw out Cal's name.

 

[Laser Show]

From a paper standpoint, this makes a ton of sense. WMB has been injured, and ineffective when healthy. There are, by all accounts, no 3rd basemen on the market currently. So the options are 1) overpay another team to get them to move their third basemen 2) Wait it out with the likes of Holt & Herrera hoping that at some point, WMB gets healthy and figures things out 3) Spend only money, commit for one year to one of the league's best shortstops in 2013 (albeit, he probably won't be as good this year, at least early on), and move your young stud SS to 3B for a few months. 
 
Come the off-season, you have a winter of free agency to find a third baseman OR you can try to break Cecchini, both situations with Xander moving back to SS.
 
A lot of people are saying this shows the Red Sox have no faith in Xander at shortstop. I disagree. This is not something that I don't think they want to be doing at all, but 3B has just been too big of a black hole to ignore and hope it gets better. And it also shows me that they have tremendous faith in Xander as an individual and a player - that he can adapt to this situation and still succeed. 

 

[alwyn96]

I was adding on to the previous post above mine:
 
 
Typically, if I'm addressing the post above mine, I won't quote it.
 
Personally, I think a lot of the hand-wringing over X is misplaced.  I won't rehash every agrument, but to agree with a lot of others, this is more about WMB than X.  Especially when WMB is going to miss months because of a fractured finger.
 
Also, in the back of my mind, I'm referencing this specific thread from a few weeks back: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/83042-how-concened-about-xander-bogaerts-defense/
 
People were getting up in arms about X's defense, and there was a lot of Cal Ripken talk in there (Cal wasn't that good apparently, but made himself into a good defensive SS).  Hence, the reason I threw out Cal's name.

 
Gotcha. Carry on. 

 

[EricFeczko]

Huh. Color me surprised, I did not expect Drew to be walking through that door. This is certainly an upgrade to the black-hole at 3B.

I think most have rehashed these points, so I'm just going to an echo a couple of those:

1) This signing is driven almost entirely by WMB's injury problems this year. 40+ games of holt/herrera/roberts is probably unacceptable for the team, and there is no better short-term option right now.
2) To me, this suggests that Drew never really had a multi-year deal on the table, and he was waiting to see if any other team would be willing to offer one. If he had a multi-year deal on the table, there's no incentive to pick up a pro-rated contract that would have been less than the qualifying offer, and waiting until after the draft for a better multi-year deal would cost as much in terms of salary than just taking a multi-year deal prior to spring training. I suspect that Drew's side basically caved, which I find surprising because several teams this year, in particular the Mets, have no solution at SS for several years, and put more money into worse contracts (e.g. Curtis Granderson) that what it would've taken to sign Drew.

 

[Average Reds]

I was adding on to the previous post above mine:
 
 
Typically, if I'm addressing the post above mine, I won't quote it.
 
Personally, I think a lot of the hand-wringing over X is misplaced.  I won't rehash every agrument, but to agree with a lot of others, this is more about WMB than X.  Especially when WMB is going to miss months because of a fractured finger.
 
Also, in the back of my mind, I'm referencing this specific thread from a few weeks back: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/83042-how-concened-about-xander-bogaerts-defense/
 
People were getting up in arms about X's defense, and there was a lot of Cal Ripken talk in there (Cal wasn't that good apparently, but made himself into a good defensive SS).  Hence, the reason I threw out Cal's name.

 
If WMB is missing months, then I will do a complete 180 on this signing.  I had assumed (from what I had read previously) that it was an issue of a few weeks. 

 

[HillysLastWalk]

Yikes. Let me actually temper that. I reread the Cherington quote, and it was "weeks not days". I was thinking its at least a month (esp when you consider a stint in the minors). Potentially more. I dont want to spread misinformation.

Edit: found this link: http://www.livestrong.com/article/450342-what-is-the-recovery-time-for-a-broken-finger-in-baseball-players/

They say, without surgery, three to six weeks. Thats along the lines of what Im thinking. When you throw in rehab, thats a month to two months. And this is exactly the driving force to me believing this is a necessary and good move (to sign Drew)

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I'm for this, on the whole.  Bogaerts should routinely get reps at short against lefties, and we get back last season's defensive keystone.

As much as I want Bogaerts to focus on growing his body to fulfill his offensive potential at 3rd he should get time at SS vs lefties because he's the best option we have. We are competing for a World Championship not in the business of being a developmental squad regardless of where his future position is. Plus, if for some reason Bogaerts is a long-term SS overcoming some adversity at a young age would be good for him and certainly wouldn't affect him negatively unless his makeup is garbage in which case it wouldn't matter anyway.

Agreed on points that we fill a lineup hole without giving up a prospect while also achieving the added benefit of Drew helping a contender.

 

[dynomite]

Yep. But then all it will have cost them is some money.  Plus a little developmental time for X at SS.  But at his age, that shouldn't really be much of a problem.

Exactly. Especially in a year when 90 games might win the AL East, hard to see the downside in upgrading from Brock Holt to Stephen Drew.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Just reread Feeding the Monster and Seth Mnookian wrote about this as a real fact.

 
If I recall correctly, the players were ticked off because Torre had always brought a good number of NYY players to the All Star game when he was managing the AL team. Red Sox players in 2005 didn't understand that the rules had changed and were ticked that Francona didn't do the same. Nobody said they were smart enough to read about the rules change.

 

[Green Monster]

 
........... Nobody said they were smart enough to read about the rules change.

They called themselves Idiots for a reason

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I thought it was interesting that Dave O'Brien went out of his way today to say "no one has played a better 3B this year for the Sox than Brock Holt."

My eyes don't agree. Seems more like a 2b playing 3b to me, a little slow to react, but with his OBP skills, i do wonder why he's not seen as a sufficient stopgap for Will.

I really think this signing is a sign Middlebrooks is not long for the org.

 

[67WasBest]

 
If I recall correctly, the players were ticked off because Torre had always brought a good number of NYY players to the All Star game when he was managing the AL team. Red Sox players in 2005 didn't understand that the rules had changed and were ticked that Francona didn't do the same. Nobody said they were smart enough to read about the rules change.

Your memory is accurate.  MLB had changed the rules that year because of Torre loading the AS teams with his ballplayers.  The players felt Clement and Timlin should have been named.  Clement eventually did make it when Roy Halliday went ou with an injury.

 

[ToeKneeArmAss]

LTTP, but FWIW I'm hoping the name of the Red Sox shortstop of the future isn't Xander Bogaerts but Deven Marrero. And I'd be very happy if the name of the Red Sox 3B of the future were Xander Bogaerts.  And so should he.
 
I get it that the kid's hurt. In fact I'm glad - that shows he's got pride and suggests this could be motivating for him.  But I really couldn't give a flying f@&k about hurting his feelings.  Let's figure out how to put a winning team on the field first, and worry about his teenage dreams later.
 
Welcome back Stephen Drew.  Let's get this mess cleaned up.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I thought it was interesting that Dave O'Brien went out of his way today to say "no one has played a better 3B this year for the Sox than Brock Holt."

Talk about your damning with faint praise.

 

[Drek717]

I really think this signing is a sign Middlebrooks is not long for the org.

He's a good athlete with a strong throwing arm and serious power in his bat, but with horrible production the last two years and a spotty health history.  Why would the team move him when no one is going to give anything good for him?
 
I think WMB will still be around for a while.  He'll just have to start learning how to play 1B, 2B, LF, and maybe RF because he's going to have to prove his worth to the organization from the bench going forward.  The alternative (basically giving him away for free) isn't very appealing to me when WMB could have significant value as a super sub.

 

[Rovin Romine]

He's a good athlete with a strong throwing arm and serious power in his bat, but with horrible production the last two years and a spotty health history.  Why would the team move him when no one is going to give anything good for him?
 
I think WMB will still be around for a while.  He'll just have to start learning how to play 1B, 2B, LF, and maybe RF because he's going to have to prove his worth to the organization from the bench going forward.  The alternative (basically giving him away for free) isn't very appealing to me when WMB could have significant value as a super sub.

 
He'd be Reddick 2.0.   Probably for the Athletics as well. 

 

[ookami7m]

43 games. They gave X 43 games at short. And all parties admitted he was getting better in the field, even Nick Cafardo. So you've got a young player working hard to get himself established at short, all while still contributing offensively, and you pull the plug at 43 games. It simply doesn't make any sense. And now the kid is crushed and his confidence shaken, all for a move that has zero long term benefit.

If WMB is the real issue here, then perhaps the Sox could have gone out and picked up a third baseman, instead of dicking around with their most promising young player. They set a course over the offseason with Xat short and then abandoned it before Memorial Day. That's reminiscent of the 2012 team and not that of last year's World Champions. Have some courage in your convictions, for crissakes.

 
Care to name the hypothetical 3Bman that would be available for just $ like Drew or for a minimal cost in trade? 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
Care to name the hypothetical 3Bman that would be available for just $ like Drew or for a minimal cost in trade? 

 
Garin Cecchini?

 

[Drek717]

 
Garin Cecchini?

If Cecchini was really a ML level 3B they likely would have gone in that direction.
 
Everyone is focused on how signing Drew is an indictment of Middlebrooks.  Last I checked Drew wasn't signed when Middlebrooks was still taking the field on a regular basis despite still being available.  He was however signed when Garin Cecchini is busy posting a .385 OBP in Pawtucket.  For all our concern about Cecchini's ability to hit for power it seems to me like we're now firmly into the period where we should be more worried about his ability to actually play 3B defensively.

 

[Hoplite]

 
Do all you guys want some badge to wear around? We get it.
 
Does this mean next time you're wrong we can post links to it?

 
People are wrong all the time. If not for the way the message was conveyed about Drew not walking through the door, I doubt anyone would remember the thread.