Drew is walking through that door

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YouDownWithOBP?

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So about the roster gymnastics tomorrow, DFA Carp, activate Drew, send Drew down, call up Nava? They cant send down Holt/Herrerra since now theres no backup INF. Roberts is off the 40 man too, right?
 

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chrisfont9 said:
Not necessarily, it just says that it would be on hold for two years, rather than one. Ripken played almost two years at 3B before moving.
 
It could also be spin from the Boras camp to help keep the perception that he's a valuable multi-year guy going for next winter.  I don't think it necessarily means anything about Bogaerts.
 
EvilEmpire said:
 
Unless?  You don't think Boras knows what deals are out there?
 
Of course he does.  My point is, we don't.  Until there is some shred of evidence that no one was willing to pay him more money over a longer period of time I see no reason to assume that is the case.  He was one of the better shortstops in baseball last year.
 

chrisfont9

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No he did not.  As a late season call-up in 1981, he played parts of 6 games at 3B (mostly in late inning duty).  Call that his Bogaerts 2013.  He then split time between 3B and SS in 1982 (more games at SS...94 to 71).  By 1983, his age 22 season, he was a full time SS.
After two full minor league seasons at third. So from 1979- somewhere in '82 he was a 3B. Then as you say by age 22 he was a full time SS. Not terribly different. My only point is, if he's destined to be a SS, there's no great hurry.
 

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Judging by his performance in the World Series, Bogaerts is a much better 3B than SS at this point in his development, and is likely to stay that way. Let him settle in at his long-term position, trade Middlebrooks when he comes off the DL, move Cecchini to the outfield, try out Betts at SS, and rush Marrero's development for a 2015 major league debut.
 

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Crossing the streams--
 
soxhop411 said:
 
Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  1m
Farrell says #RedSox still view Bogaerts as a SS. Suggests he'll play SS vs. LHPs.
 
 
nvalvo said:
 
I think we want Drew at short against RHP at short, with Bogaerts at third. Xander plays short against LHP, and Brock Holt and his .750 OPS (Drew is .681 vs. LHP) plays third.
 
Here's a table: 

OPS SS 3B
vs. LHP .969 (XB) .750 (BH)
vs. RHP .795 (SD) .628 (XB)

I'm assuming Bogaerts' numbers against RHP are likely to improve. And if we could get a better lefty-mashing UI than Holt, I'd be all for it. 
 
edit: Sounds like Farrell is thinking along these lines, but not in terms of a hard and fast platoon. Via brimac: "Farrell indicates that Bogaerts could play third base against righties, shortstop against at least some lefties." 
 

DJnVa

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/468852079881363456
 
Is this the case where there's a gentleman's agreement not to claim a guy that anyone could have signed?
 

Merkle's Boner

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WMB was at the Good Sports Gala at Fenway last night to receive an award. He was very generous with his time but very protective of his hand which was very bandaged up.  I feel for him because he's a great guy who has embraced the city and gives a lot of his time for worthy causes like Good Sports, but I know he knows he needs to hit in order to stay.
 
FYI, I'm glad I'm not the guy who bid five figures to have WIll come to his house and play wiffle ball with his kids!
 

dynomite

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Sweet rational thought! Yes!
 
this is a referendum on WMB not Bogaerts. The defense will be better without downgrading the black hole of offensive suck to a Herrera. (yes I realize SFD isn't Honus)
 
It's $10 million JWH's money not ours.
 
We're in the minority, but YES!
I agree.

The Sox did their best to a) pick up a 1st Round pick, and b) let Middlebroks grow into 3B. Neither happened, so they grabbed an incredibly talented SS off the street.

As for moving Xander to 3B, the kid is 21 -- he will have plenty of time to grow into SS.
 

ivanvamp

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I'm sure others have said this, but my thoughts….
 
None of us knows what the discussions were amongst the Sox' brass, so we are all guessing what the reason is for signing Drew.  I know that shouldn't have to be said, but I think it actually does.  That said, I think here's what happened.  They were hopeful that X and WMB would anchor the left side of the infield for years to come.  Or at least that WMB would be good enough so that he would be valuable and could be used as a trade chip if they preferred Cecchini in the long run.  Either way, that WMB would, you know, actually be fairly decent.
 
So they let Drew walk, after presenting him with the QO, so that they could get a pick for him if/when he signs elsewhere.  Well, that never happened, and they were in real danger of not getting anything for him.  Combine that with WMB's struggles and injuries, and they said, crap, what's the easiest way we can improve our team?  By signing Drew, they improve the left side of the defense considerably (Drew to SS, X to 3b is a very good defensive pairing), and, because WMB has been sucking big-time anyway, it probably also improves their offense.  Killing two birds with one very neat and easy stone.
 
They didn't want to do this originally because they wanted WMB and X to both be good.  But guess what?  Things don't always work out the way you want, and the fact that Drew was still there made this pretty easy, in fact.
 
So re-sign Drew, let WMB heal then get more reps in AAA, build him back up.  Or, if you are completely out of it near the trade deadline and Drew is playing well, maybe you can then deal him for something useful, because by then maybe some team that didn't need him in the offseason really needs him at the deadline.  Stranger things have happened for sure.  
 
So my guess is that this was just the simplest way to address a few problems that they were hoping they wouldn't have, but, sadly, they do have.  I don't think this is a statement on the long-term future for WMB, and certainly not for X.  I think they still see X as the franchise's next great SS, but this won't retard his development there much.  Kid is just 21 and should have PLENTY of time to play SS down the road.
 

Merkle's Boner

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Andrew said:
Didn't WMB coin "Boston Strong"? He was the first person I saw tweet it.
 
Then again, that might make some of you hate him even more. 
I always thought that too, bout I've never seen any discussion of this.
 

Van Everyman

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Having a hard time understanding why people would be so upset about this. Signing Drew has the potential to fix a lot of problems. The left side of the infield has mostly been a disaster. WMB has played poorly on both sides of the ball -- and X has had to learn the SS position at the expense of his bat.

You also should add in as a factor some of the buzz around the chemistry of the team this year lacking in some ways. No, this deal doesn't happen on chemistry alone, but it's also not surprising when you have 3 young guys not pulling their weight in one way or another -- and two of them police the most important defensive side of the field.
 

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chrisfont9 said:
Not necessarily, it just says that it would be on hold for two years, rather than one. Ripken played almost two years at 3B before moving.
 
 
This.  I would have been perfectly fine taking the patient approach, but the division is out there for the taking so they might as well go for it.  This isn't trading half the farm away for a missing piece; at the most it's possibly slowing down a 21 year old's development at a position he may or may not wind up at in the future.   
 
The cost of Drew's return is far outweighed by the value he can deliver to the team this season.  
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/468855805476089856
 
That's one question answered, I guess.  At least now we know there's no time limit on Drew's "rehab" in the minors.  If he needs more than the proscribed 10-12 days, he can take it.
 

nattysez

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DrewDawg said:
 
Is this the case where there's a gentleman's agreement not to claim a guy that anyone could have signed?
 
Having to take on $10mm for a guy who (a) is not ready to play right now and (b) couldn't be sent down (since the Sox could just claim him back) should in theory keep the nonsense to a minimum.  
 

AlNipper49

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Reggie's Racquet said:
Two questions
Does his brother care about this?
Why didn't we get at least an option for next year just in case?
We were in the drivers seat here.
 
Just a few posts above yours this was explained.  Drew's camp only wanted one year.
 

koufax37

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I'm going to leave aside two big parts on this: negotiating strategy/victors and other things we could have done with $10m.
 
From a baseball perspective we are better defensively and offensively between now and when WMB will be back.
Additionally we are very likely better offensively and defensively for the period after WMB will be back given how he has performed.
 
We also have more depth since WMB is better than Holt, and there are indications that when he is back it might be WMB/XB against LHP.
 
We also have the possibility to trade WMB if they decide to give up on him, or to trade Drew if WMB starts to put it together offensively at some point.
 
In terms of XB's development, I think he has shown he can be a competent SS, and while development there might help him grow, a temporary move to 3B like Machado's isn't the end of the world.  Additionally, having him able to do either is a valuable thing for the future of our roster based on which position has an impact player come up first.  I still want him at short if possible long term, but I don't see this as a horrible move for him personally and his development as a fielder.
 
So while I'm not in love with the move, it makes us a better team right away without any significant long term negatives.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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<completely irrational knee jerk reaction> I hate this signing. It's a nearsighted move and the money is ridiculous. The AL East is a joke and we're still within reach even with the struggles the "kids" have been trying to work through. This reeks of desperation and not letting the product turn off the weekend Sox fans. I hope this isn't the FO giving up on WMB. Moving Will back to AAA when he gets back isn't going to help with his major league pitch recognition. <end rant>
 
This upgrades the left side defensively, which will be nice, and could keep some stress off of some of the pitching staff. I see the upside. Still not psyched.
 

judyb

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Having to take on $10mm for a guy who (a) is not ready to play right now and (b) couldn't be sent down (since the Sox could just claim him back) should in theory keep the nonsense to a minimum.
They're revocable waivers, anyway, the only reason to start any nonsense would be to be a pain, and then the next time the team that started the nonsense tried to get anyone through option waivers, another team would return the favor just to start nonsense with the team that decided to be a pain this time.
 

ivanvamp

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Rudy Pemberton said:
They also got the Dempster money, which was unexpected and freed up $10M+. By the time they found out he wasn't coming back, there wasn't really a way to reallocate that money, but now they can use it to directly address a need...without giving up any assets.
 
Yep.  Given the reality right now, the moves makes perfect sense.  Even if it wasn't what they envisioned back in January.
 

benhogan

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Love this move, wanted them to sign Drew to cheap 1 yr deal all off-season.  I think it eases the pressure on X.
 
When WMB gets back he will play 3rd vs LHP, and X will play SS.  Herrera to the minors. No need to sell low on WMB.
 
Xander gets to ease into SS over the next year, continues to work with Butter all season.
 
Pedroia doesn't need days off, he took 2 games off last year (game #162 when everything was clinched and a forced day by Farrell)... But if he does need 1 day, X or Drew or WMB could draw straws.  Keeping Herrera on the roster to maybe play 1 game at 2b to give a pissed off Pedroia a day off is SILLY. 
 
Now go get Denorfia for Carp and start platooning JBJ/ Denorfia in CF.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Remagellan said:
 
The cost of Drew's return is far outweighed by the value he can deliver to the team this season.  
 
This really doesn't cost any more than it would have if the qualifying offer had been accepted -- actually, it costs about $4 million less since it was rejected.  So, if one thought that was an ok offer when made, then it's really no different now.  Unless the only reason one supported it then was the draft pick, but the points is the Sox were willing to pay $14 million for a year of Drew then, and now they are still willing to do the same, just pro rated.  
 
AlNipper49 said:
 
Just a few posts above yours this was explained.  Drew's camp only wanted one year.
 
Given that the team with the biggest checkbook is going to need a SS next year, it's understandable both why Drew would say no and why the Sox would give it a go.
 

Al Zarilla

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
<completely irrational knee jerk reaction> I hate this signing. It's a nearsighted move and the money is ridiculous. The AL East is a joke and we're still within reach even with the struggles the "kids" have been trying to work through. This reeks of desperation and not letting the product turn off the weekend Sox fans. I hope this isn't the FO giving up on WMB. Moving Will back to AAA when he gets back isn't going to help with his major league pitch recognition. <end rant>
 
This upgrades the left side defensively, which will be nice, and could keep some stress off of some of the pitching staff. I see the upside. Still not psyched.
If the Red Sox were a car engine which needs sufficient oil to run well, they've been a couple of quarts low. This move adds back a quart.
 

nvalvo

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benhogan said:
 
Now go get Denorfia for Carp and start platooning JBJ/ Denorfia in CF.
 
Not to sidetrack things too much, I hope, but some people on this board have a weird sense of Denorfia's value. He has a .771 OPS playing half of his games in PETCO. 
 
That's a really good player. Maybe if Carp were still hitting like the first half last season, but a positionless slugger who hasn't hit recently is not bringing back Denorfia. 
 

trekfan55

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/468855805476089856
 
That's one question answered, I guess.  At least now we know there's no time limit on Drew's "rehab" in the minors.  If he needs more than the proscribed 10-12 days, he can take it.
 
So Drew needs to be added to the 25 man roster, and then he can be optioned to AAA (with his consent) so that brings the Sox back to 25 guys.
 
The only question is who goes off the 40 man.
 

mauidano

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trekfan55 said:
 
So Drew needs to be added to the 25 man roster, and then he can be optioned to AAA (with his consent) so that brings the Sox back to 25 guys.
 
The only question is who goes off the 40 man.
I thought it was mentioned earlier that it's at 39.  Could be wrong.
 

Traut

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Will Middlebrooks has Oakland A written all over him. 
 
Hard not to like this move. The Sox are a better team this evening than they were this morning. Turns out letting your starting catcher, center fielder, and SS go - wasn't the best idea.  This helps them offensively, up the middle, and in the lineup. 
 
Nice move by Cherrington. 
 

gammoseditor

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Trautwein's Degree said:
Will Middlebrooks has Oakland A written all over him. 
 
Hard not to like this move. The Sox are a better team this evening than they were this morning. Turns out letting your starting catcher, center fielder, and SS go - wasn't the best idea.  This helps them offensively, up the middle, and in the lineup. 
 
Nice move by Cherrington. 
 
The A's current third basemen finished 4th in the MVP voting last year, and I believe is under team control through 2018.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Al Zarilla said:
If the Red Sox were a car engine which needs sufficient oil to run well, they've been a couple of quarts low. This move adds back a quart.
 
A quart of slightly used 5w-30, but a quart nonetheless.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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trekfan55 said:
 
So Drew needs to be added to the 25 man roster, and then he can be optioned to AAA (with his consent) so that brings the Sox back to 25 guys.
 
The only question is who goes off the 40 man.
 
McAdam speculated that it will be Holt that is optioned to add Drew to the 25-man roster, then when Drew is optioned, it will be Cecchini who is called up (the only other available infielder on the 40-man at the moment).
 
As has been posted, the 40-man roster isn't full, so no move is needed to add Drew to it.
 

Sampo Gida

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This is a great move IMO.  If they put Drew at SS the improve at SS and 3B.  Regardless of where they play, they improve the team against RHP'ers. 
 
When WMB comes back, they can deal him or Drew for a prospect or as a piece to fill  whatever hole they happen to have,
 
This upgrade made possible only by the penny pinching ways of the Yankees and Mets.
 

benhogan

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nvalvo said:
 
Not to sidetrack things too much, I hope, but some people on this board have a weird sense of Denorfia's value. He has a .771 OPS playing half of his games in PETCO. 
 
That's a really good player. Maybe if Carp were still hitting like the first half last season, but a positionless slugger who hasn't hit recently is not bringing back Denorfia. 
Also apologies for the sidetrack,  but its pretty fair deal for SD.
 
Denorfia is their #4 or 5 OF (Venable, Smith, Quentin, Maybin all signed for more $). He is on the last year of his contract and won't be offered a QO, so they will deal him at some point if they are out of it.
 
Carp had a monster year last year, makes less then Denorfia and has 2 more years of control left.
 
Or you could deal Nava (really cheap/plenty of control) for Denorfia and cut Grady.
 
We have some depth in the minors we could also contemplate dealing (Lavarnaway, Hassan, Brentz)
 

Al Zarilla

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gammoseditor said:
 
The A's current third basemen finished 4th in the MVP voting last year, and I believe is under team control through 2018.
Didn't you know all other MLB teams are either development machines for players the Sox have a current need for, or dumping grounds for used up ones?
 

benhogan

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Al Zarilla said:
Didn't you know all other MLB teams are either development machines for players the Sox have a current need for, or dumping grounds for used up ones?
I believe thats the loose definition of a Big Market team and how they try to operate
 

alwyn96

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Al Zarilla said:
Didn't you know all other MLB teams are either development machines for players the Sox have a current need for, or dumping grounds for used up ones?
Aside from the actual fact of Donaldson, Middlebrooks does have a bunch in common with the other ex-Red Sox on the A's. Doesn't walk much (Reddick), lots of power (Reddick, Moss), injury-prone (Lowrie), white dude with a one syllable first name (Josh, Jed), he's got it all!
 

67WasBest

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I wanted Drew to return when 2013 ended.  I understood why they didn't sign him during the offseason and was supportive of the development of the kids.  I found myself really started to question if WoMBat is a major leaguer, but at the same time I see enough to not want to toss him away.  I also grew increasingly concerned we were letting a golden opportunity slip away with the drek that is the AL East this year. 
 
The reality there will not be a supplemental draft pick returning made resigning Drew more attractive.  The Dempster retirement opened the funding window and the WMB injury made it make sense.
 
I wanted them to resign him because I liked the stability he offered up the middle.  IMO, his presence would allow X, WMB and the entire pitching staff to feel less pressure.  Provided Farrell platooned all three to assure they got a decent number of at bats, the development of X and WMB could continue with Drew at SS vs RH, and select LH, X at SS vs most LH, X at 3B until WMB returns, then work WMB into the rotation when X goes to SS and spelling Papi at DH and Pedroia at 2B (rarely, and not as a long term option).
 
Drew is a defensive upgrade over X at SS, and he is likely to outhit WMB based on the first 1.5 months production.   This is good for the team now, and going forward.  Those who think X will be hugely set back by this are vastly underestimating his skills IMO.
 

HomeRunBaker

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glennhoffmania said:
 
Then this makes zero sense.  That says they're ready to ditch the Bogaerts at SS experiment.
I feel like I've been alone on this bridge since last season when I suggested Bogaerts belongs at 3b to best grow into his offensive potential sooner rather than later. Hopefully this gains steam it will be the best thing for Xander's offense and our teams defense......I never understood why so many were adamant against this.

Edit: Another major reason is that WMB showed last year how badly he was exposed to off-speed pitches. The book is out on him.
 

Byrdbrain

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As an aside when WMB comes back(I'm assuming to Pawtucket) I'd like to see him get some work in at 1B. I suspect X will be at third for the long run and if not then it may be Cecchini. 1B is an organizational weakness so why not get him some reps there. 
 
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