Doubront to DL

[Corsi]

 

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  6m
Stephen Drew is officially placed on #RedSox 25-man roster while Felix Doubront placed on 15-day DL.
 

 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

It will be curious to see who gets the call to take his spot in the rotation.  Farrell reportedly mentioned Webster and Workman by name in talking about who might get the next start, but apparently no decision has been made yet.

 

[Corsi]

 

Jason Mastrodonato ‏@JMastrodonato  12m
Farrell on WEEI about replacing Doubront: "We've got talented candidates in Pawtucket." Named Brandon Workman and Allen Webster as two.
 

 

[MakMan44]

I'd really like to see Webster get the first shot. His HR problems last season have me worried about his long term starting potential and it would be nice to see if that's a real concern or not. 

 

[Drek717]

I'd argue that they need to either give the starts to Workman or get him back to the bullpen.  He has shown the ability to be a legit reliever already last season through the playoffs and he's had enough AAA time.  If he isn't option #1 when these situations arise he needs to go the 'pen where he can give more immediate value.

 

[Darnell's Son]

I agree with Mak. Webster's numbers are looking pretty good and he's 24 so I would like to see him get a couple starts in the bigs and see if he can do better than last year.
 
Comparing his AAA numbers from last year and this year, Webster has cut his HR rate(0.77 to 0.33) in half with a lower K/9(9.94 to 6.42) and the same BB/9(3.69 and 3.79). Hopefully that means he's getting weaker contact and he can continue that in the big leagues.
 
Edit: I added the numbers and the sample size could be to blame as he has pitched about half(105 to 54.2) the innings he pitched in AAA last year so far.

 

[alwyn96]

I'd argue that they need to either give the starts to Workman or get him back to the bullpen.  He has shown the ability to be a legit reliever already last season through the playoffs and he's had enough AAA time.  If he isn't option #1 when these situations arise he needs to go the 'pen where he can give more immediate value.

 
I can't imagine it would be Workman, right? He's got like an ERA over 5 over the season and over his last 3 starts. That doesn't scream "guy who is ready to come up and dominate" to me. Maybe they should move him to the pen, but it seems like you could do that anytime. I think it's generally tougher to go in the other direction. 

 

[dbn]

Just for reference, here are the PawSox 2014 stats:

Name, IP ERA WHIP K/9 K/BB GO/AO HR/9*

Webster 54.2 2.47 1.28 6.4 1.70 1.19 0.3
Ranaudo 52.1 3.27 1.39 8.5 1.75 0.75 0.5
De La Rosa 47.1 3.42 1.25 8.9 2.24 1.87 0.0
Workman 38.2 5.12 1.29 7.9 3.40 0.70 1.9
Barnes 28.0 2.89 1.18 6.8 2.10 0.87 0.3
* = note that while all of these stats suffer from SSS, the HR/9 numbers are VSSS.
I really liked what I saw in Workman last year, although it was only in 16 1/3 innings as a starter. Doubront's next scheduled start is on Sunday the 25th. Pawtucket is off today, then if they were to continue with their current rotation it'd be Barnes on the 22nd, Workman 23rd, De La Rosa 24th, Webster on the 25th. Of course, they have enough time before the 25th to juggle the rotation to line up whomever they'd prefer.
 
Edit: actually, they are all decent options, except Barnes who isn't on the 40-man.

 

[alwyn96]

Just looking at the stats, there's no one who seems like the most obvious choice to me. Webster's got that nice ERA, but he's walking a lot of dudes and not striking out as many as you'd like to see. Ranaudo and DLR are striking guys out, but they've got an even worse BB problem. Workman's giving up a bunch of homers. Barnes isn't on the 40-man. Those are mostly pretty sweet-looking ERAs, though. 
 
EDIT: Or mostly what dbn and everyone else is saying.

 

[Darnell's Son]

Aren't those Webster numbers a bit concerning? We know HR rates can be really fluky. A 3.8 BB and 6.4 K rate isn't promising at all, to me. That 2.47 ERA looks like a mirage.

 
Not including Rookie ball, his lowest BB/9 was 3.50 in high A. I think we're just going to have to live with the walks with Webster. Hopefully the lower K rate is an emphasis on inducing outs and not an inability to miss bats.

 

[dbn]

Aren't those Webster numbers a bit concerning? We know HR rates can be really fluky. A 3.8 BB and 6.4 K rate isn't promising at all, to me. That 2.47 ERA looks like a mirage.

 
Isn't he ground-ball pitcher, though? I'll add GO/AO and HR/9 numbers to the above table, but remind all of the SSS.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Workman has the best SO/W Ratio at 3.40 and is also striking out a healthy 7.9 per 9 IPs. He has been held back by his giving up 8 HRs in 38.2 IP.

Webster is at a 1.70 SO/W ratio and a slightly more modest 6.4 SO/9. He has only given up 1 HR I believe but is walking 3.8 per 9 IP.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Aren't those Webster numbers a bit concerning? We know HR rates can be really fluky. A 3.8 BB and 6.4 K rate isn't promising at all, to me. That 2.47 ERA looks like a mirage.

 
In his last six starts, his BB/9 is 2.8 and his K/9 is up to 7.2.  Seems to be trending in the right direction on both counts.

 

[Puffy]

It really kind of blows my mind to see such a deep stack of starting pitching ready to go down in Pawtucket. You could make a decent case for any of the 4 on the 40-man. 

 

[Corsi]

 

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  14s
Red Sox saying that Doubront bumped into a car door and that led to his shoulder problem.
 

 

[TheYaz67]

Aren't those Webster numbers a bit concerning? We know HR rates can be really fluky. A 3.8 BB and 6.4 K rate isn't promising at all, to me. That 2.47 ERA looks like a mirage.

 
On the flip side, Rubby's HR rate looks great - hope he gets the first call - certainly was the best starter in Paw in April....

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I'd skip Workman this time because you'd be asking him to take a long break between starts. Maybe by the start after next, you'd have more time to set him up. I'd vote for Ranaudo, who is coming off two solid starts, would be working on his regular day, and is about due for his ML debut. But Webster or Rubby would be fine too.

 

[alwyn96]

 
 
Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  14s
Red Sox saying that Doubront bumped into a car door and that led to his shoulder problem.

 
What an incompetent organization. If they cared at all about the safety of these players, they'd remove all the doors from any car these players owned or were standing near.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
What an incompetent organization. If they cared at all about the safety of these players, they'd remove all the doors from any car these players owned or were standing near.

 
They can strain a muscle reaching up to put a seat belt on...better have those removed from the cars too.

 

[genivive]

That is simply not believable. 

 

[AbbyNoho]

Part of me hopes they just told that to Pete to see if he'd actually run with it, and it was just some kind of bland muscle strain. 

 

[soxhop411]

Part of me hopes they just told that to Pete to see if he'd actually run with it, and it was just some kind of bland muscle strain. 

Not just Pete reported that… Seems many of the BOS reporters have

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

 

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 14s
Red Sox saying that Doubront bumped into a car door and that led to his shoulder problem.

 

Yeah.  EnCARnacion

 

[Darnell's Son]

Yeah.  EnCARnacion

BOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[NickEsasky]

Well if sleeping with his baby cost Buchholz most of a season, bumping into a car door might end Doubront's career. 

 

[DJnVa]

That is simply not believable. 

 
Why not? 

 

[IdiotKicker]

That is simply not believable.

So my freshman year of college when I was playing soccer, I was in the cafeteria one day and a buddy of mine knocked my hat a little sideways. I reached up to pull it down on my head, pulled it a bit too hard, and ended up straining a trap so badly that I couldn't play the next day since I couldn't turn my head. Ever since then, I have been very forgiving of strange injury stories. The fact that I would voluntarily make this public knowledge says something about that.

 

[WenZink]

It really kind of blows my mind to see such a deep stack of starting pitching ready to go down in Pawtucket. You could make a decent case for any of the 4 on the 40-man. 

 
I wonder if the Sox opt to move Capuano to the rotation, and call up someone from AAA to replace Cap as long man.  Not sure if Capuano is "stretched out" enough, but maybe better than having one of the Pawsox starters struggling to a 2 IP and out performance and taxing the pen.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
Not including Rookie ball, his lowest BB/9 was 3.50 in high A. I think we're just going to have to live with the walks with Webster. Hopefully the lower K rate is an emphasis on inducing outs and not an inability to miss bats.

Webster has a maddening ability to struggle when he's first promoted to a level and then succeed the following year. I do not know if it's nerves or not but he's very comfortable the year after. The trend continued this year with Pawtucket where he looks a lot more confident and the control does seem to be there. My vote is for Webster. He's going to do fine too.

 

[InsideTheParker]

Well if sleeping with his baby cost Buchholz most of a season, bumping into a car door might end Doubront's career. 

I believe that story was misinformation, and that Buch. hurt himself diving or falling into first base.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I blame the need for Vaughn Eshelman's wife to light a candle

 

[MakMan44]

 
I wonder if the Sox opt to move Capuano to the rotation, and call up someone from AAA to replace Cap as long man.  Not sure if Capuano is "stretched out" enough, but maybe better than having one of the Pawsox starters struggling to a 2 IP and out performance and taxing the pen.

I doubt it. Makes more sense to bring up one of the AAA starters on regular rest and have Cap piggy back if they struggle. 

 

[mauf]

It really kind of blows my mind to see such a deep stack of starting pitching ready to go down in Pawtucket. You could make a decent case for any of the 4 on the 40-man. 

I would argue the opposite. It's certainly nice to have five solid SPs in AAA, but if one if them was going to develop into a standout big-league pitcher, you would expect by age 24-25 for that guy to be standing out from his teammates, even in a rotation that is unquestionably strong by AAA standards.

If the timing works, I'd give the ball to RDLR. He has the best FIP this season and the most major-league experience, so I figure he's less likely to soil himself at a time when the big club can ill afford a debacle like Allen Webster's 2013 callup.

Also, RDLR is a year older than the others and already has a TJ surgery under his belt. If you assume that an unplanned, early-season callup is less than optimal for a pitcher, you should call on the guy whose development you care least about disrupting. For me, that's RDLR.

 

[dbn]

Well if sleeping with his baby cost Buchholz most of a season, bumping into a car door might end Doubront's career. 

 
What an incompetent organization. I can't believe, in this day and age when we know so much about sports and injuries, that the Red Sox would allow their players to have kids.

 

[Hoplite]

Did he strain his stomach fat?

 

[chrisfont9]

 
I can't imagine it would be Workman, right? He's got like an ERA over 5 over the season and over his last 3 starts. That doesn't scream "guy who is ready to come up and dominate" to me. Maybe they should move him to the pen, but it seems like you could do that anytime. I think it's generally tougher to go in the other direction. 

He pitched high leverage post-season innings, so given the tendency of baseball people to stick to their guns, I can definitely see it being Workman. It's not like the Sox' management gets hung up on a few bad starts, assuming they aren't indicative of real trouble.

 

[chrisfont9]

I would argue the opposite. It's certainly nice to have five solid SPs in AAA, but if one if them was going to develop into a standout big-league pitcher, you would expect by age 24-25 for that guy to be standing out from his teammates, even in a rotation that is unquestionably strong by AAA standards.

If the timing works, I'd give the ball to RDLR. He has the best FIP this season and the most major-league experience, so I figure he's less likely to soil himself at a time when the big club can ill afford a debacle like Allen Webster's 2013 callup.

Also, RDLR is a year older than the others and already has a TJ surgery under his belt. If you assume that an unplanned, early-season callup is less than optimal for a pitcher, you should call on the guy whose development you care least about disrupting. For me, that's RDLR.

You convinced me. I like Barnes the most but is there any sense of him feeling rushed by a promotion? Maybe, maybe not. But de la Rosa should be ready, based on age and experience (25 ML appearances).

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

You convinced me. I like Barnes the most but is there any sense of him feeling rushed by a promotion? Maybe, maybe not. But de la Rosa should be ready, based on age and experience (25 ML appearances).

 
I think the biggest hurdle to Barnes getting the call is that he's not currently on the 40-man roster (the only one of the Pawtucket rotation that isn't).  With the 40-man roster now full with the addition of Drew, adding Barnes would require an additional transaction.  It will probably take extraordinary circumstances for Barnes to get a call this year ahead of any of RDLR, Workman, Webster, or Ranuado.

 

[Puffy]

I would argue the opposite. It's certainly nice to have five solid SPs in AAA, but if one if them was going to develop into a standout big-league pitcher, you would expect by age 24-25 for that guy to be standing out from his teammates, even in a rotation that is unquestionably strong by AAA standards.

 
I agree. At the same time, I am pleased to see a group which is younger, and has some pedigree and upside potential, unlike typical Pawsox rotations - like in 2012, for instance (Brandon Duckworth, Doug Mathis, Billy Buckner, Justin Germano, and Nelson Figueroa).

 

[WenZink]

I would argue the opposite. It's certainly nice to have five solid SPs in AAA, but if one if them was going to develop into a standout big-league pitcher, you would expect by age 24-25 for that guy to be standing out from his teammates, even in a rotation that is unquestionably strong by AAA standards.

...

 
The problem with RDLR/Webster/Ranaudo is that they all have BB/9 > 4, and that becomes a bigger problem in MLB with more disciplined hitters.  Sox can't afford a 1.2 IP start with the rest of the rotation being so shaky, right now.  My guess is that Workman will get the call, even with his ERA > 5.00.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I would argue the opposite. It's certainly nice to have five solid SPs in AAA, but if one if them was going to develop into a standout big-league pitcher, you would expect by age 24-25 for that guy to be standing out from his teammates, even in a rotation that is unquestionably strong by AAA standards.

 
This makes no sense to me. A pitcher doesn't provide value by being better than his teammates, he provides value by being better than league average. If his teammates are better than league average too, that doesn't make him worse.
 
I mean, maybe none of these guys is particularly good, but the fact that none of them is particularly better than the others doesn't tell us that.

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

 
Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  14s
Red Sox saying that Doubront bumped into a car door and that led to his shoulder problem.

 
What an incompetent organization. If they cared at all about the safety of these players, they'd remove all the doors from any car these players owned or were standing near.

 
 

Yeah.  EnCARnacion

 
I blame Yugo.

 

[mabrowndog]

PawSox beat writer Brendan McGair
 

 
[PawSox manager Kevin] Boles confirmed that lefty Felix Doubront will make a rehab start for the PawSox Tuesday afternoon at McCoy Stadium against the Louisville. As to what that means regarding whether the rest of the rotation simply gets pushed back a day or if a PawSox starter follows Doubront to the mound – Sunday’s game notes listed Steven Wright as Tuesday’s probable – Boles stated, “We’ll piece that out over the next couple days with (PawSox pitching coach) Rich Sauveur and (Red Sox roving pitching coordinator Ralph Treuel). We’ll see what (Doubront’s pitch count will be) before figuring everyting out.”

 

[soxhop411]

Tim Britton ‏@TimBritton  1m
Doubront done after 4 2/3 innings and 75 pitches. I counted four pitches at 90+
 
Brendan McGair ‏@BWMcGair03  2m
That's all for Felix Doubront: 4.2 innings, 1 walk, 3 strikeouts. 75 pitches, 44 strikes. Responsible for runners on 1B. @PawSox

 

[mabrowndog]

WEEI: Doubront says shoulder feels good, believes he can regain velocity
 

Two starts into his rehab assignment with a third coming on Sunday, Doubront says his shoulder is feeling “pretty good.” It’s been almost four weeks since Doubront’s last outing with the Red Sox back on May 20.
 
Doubront’s fastball velocity, which sat around an average of 90 mph during his nine major league starts this season, dipped even lower in his two rehab starts, sitting in the high 80s and only occasionally touching above 90. While Doubront was working up strength in his injured shoulder, he says that he’s close to feeling like he did before the injury, and that the velocity will come.
 
“Since I started rehabbing, working my shoulder — [it] feels really good and really loose. That’s the thing I need to feel better,” Doubront said. “Over the past two rehab starts I [felt] great, [was] throwing strikes, getting a feel for all my pitches. Velocity is not there but I’m building my strength to get to that level. I’m gonna step it up a little bit more on Sunday.”
 
The dip in velocity has been an issue for longer than just the first couple months of 2014. Doubront saw a decline last season as well; while he was sitting 92-93 mph and touching 95-96 mph in 2012, he averaged just 90.6mph on his fastball in 2013. He says that his shoulder feels strong enough to possibly ramp up his fastball to the place it was two years ago.
 
“It’s getting to that point [where] it’s really close and I can feel the power, not even from last year but from 2012 when I was throwing 95 or 96. I’m getting there,” said Doubront. “It’s really strong right now and I’m going to keep working to get it to the top.”

 

 
Though the velocity is obviously a concern for Doubront when it comes to being effective, he says that it’s not his main focus for his next outing, nor has it been for either of his previous rehab appearances.
 
“My first rehab start, it was more locating my fastball and throwing strikes without thinking I have to throw hard,” Doubront said. “The second was kind of the same, thinking I’m gonna pitch and not throw, and that’s more important than to throw hard. When I get to the point where I [can] throw the hardest I can for strikes or in counts to get the hitter out with a hard fastball, I’m focused more on that area, throwing strikes rather than throwing hard.
 
“Repeating my delivery, throwing a lot of fastballs, throwing all my pitches and trying to throw strikes. That’s the main focus right now.”

 

[MakMan44]

https://twitter.com/JLevering4/status/478248283438317569