Disowning Uncle Drew: Kyrie Trade Speculation

bankshot1

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If you can low-ball the Cavs into a S&T for LeBron, I'm all for it.

But for a reasonable price they can send him to you,

If its too steep, Ainge walks, and LBJ walks to Philly or LA, and the Cavs get nada.

But if you were Ainge would you in essence trade

KI+ Morris + Yabu + '18 #1 fpr LeBron?

with KI going to the Knicks.
 

chilidawg

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If you can low-ball the Cavs into a S&T for LeBron, I'm all for it.

But for a reasonable price they can send him to you,

If its too steep, Ainge walks, and LBJ walks to Philly or LA, and the Cavs get nada.

But if you were Ainge would you in essence trade

KI+ Morris + Yabu + '18 #1 fpr LeBron?

with KI going to the Knicks.
In a proverbial heartbeat.
 

benhogan

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A few days ago on a mostly knicks fan forum, I proposed a 3-way,
it was basically

Celts get LBJ
Knicks get KI
Cavs gets Kanter, Niki, Knicks '18 #1 (9) and a '20 #1, Morris and Yabu and a Celtics #1 (27) ,
it passed the trade machine, delivered +4 wins to the knicks (Celts were +2, Cavs -12) but Knick fans thought they were getting screwed.
I think you're pretty spot on.

To make it more palatable for the Knicks they can have either Morris or Celtics 2018 #27.

You could also tweak the Knicks 2020 #1 INTO a 2019 and 2020 Celtics swaption to switch #1s. The Knicks will be guaranteed a #1 in 2019 and 2020.

Your main strategy here is to deal KI to get Lebron on Celtics, makes complete sense.

The other deal is Kyrie + Morris for Kawhi+

Otherwise, we go into next year with everyone but Smart or Rozier. Don't think Danny will force anything and I'm happy heading into next season with a healthy Kyrie gettin' buckets.
 
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JCizzle

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https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2018/6/15/17469512/kyrie-irving-on-leaving-lebron-bostons-future-summer-rumors-and-empowered-players

Just started to listening to this,

early hi-light: around 22 minutes in KI on the start of the '17-18 season Gordo's injury and Tatum.
Yeah, he loves Tatum, Brown and Hayward. I get the draw of NYC, but this did not sound like a guy that wants to bounce. Sounds like a guy that's in for 3-4 years before he leaves for other pastures.
 

lovegtm

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I'm don't lose a lot of sleep over whether Kyrie will re-sign. I think his free agency is relevant to trades though, because the Celtics can spin it post-trade as
a) they didn't have certainty on whether he'd stay
b) he gets to choose his destination in 2019-2020, so they're not banishing him to Siberia

Contrast that with Hayward, who would be completely stuck for two years wherever he was hypothetically shipped.
 

JakeRae

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A few days ago on a mostly knicks fan forum, I proposed a 3-way,
it was basically

Celts get LBJ
Knicks get KI
Cavs gets Kanter, Niki, Knicks '18 #1 (9) and a '20 #1, Morris and Yabu and a Celtics #1 (27) ,
it passed the trade machine, delivered +4 wins to the knicks (Celts were +2, Cavs -12) but Knick fans thought they were getting screwed.
This is way too much return to the Cavs.
 

bankshot1

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This is way too much return to the Cavs.
Might be but the Cavs help is needed to deliver LBJ to the Celts. They might prefer him heading west/southwest to the Lakers or Houston.

Who's giving up too much, and what can get a 3-way with those teams done?

Celts get LeBron for KI + Morris +Yabu +'18 #1
Knicks get KI for Kanter+ Niki + and '18 and '20 1s.

You can't deviate from the cap math.

Who's getting screwed?
 
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JakeRae

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Might be but the Cavs help is needed to deliver LBJ to the Celts. They might prefer him heading west/southwest to the Lakers or Houston.

Who's giving up too much, and what can get a 3-way with those teams done?

Celts get LeBron for KI + Morris +Yabu +'18 #1
Knicks get KI for Kanter+ Niki + and '18 and '20 1s.

You can't deviate from the cap math.

Who's getting screwed?
Irving is a significant overpay for Lebron (because sign and trade) such that the Celtics should not have to add an extra first. The Knicks are also overpaying in that Irving was traded a year ago for a package that contained one lottery pick and your proposal includes 2-3 plus Kanter.
 

bankshot1

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So you'd kill LeBron to the Celts over the #27 pick in this year's draft?

We disagree.

Knicks could use a real PG to pair with KP to rebuild the ongoing 2-decade long disaster of a franchise. And put them another FA signing from being a real pain in the butt. KI would be a big step towards respectibility

And Irving was traded for an all-star PG in IT, Crowder a good player who was signed to a very team friendly contract, and the Nets '18 #1 that was viewed last summer as likely to fall in the 1-6 range. (It wasn't just a lottery pick)

The Knicks don't have quality players to trade, hence the draft picks, which the Cavs could use.

Niki is ok, and may turn into a decent player but he's a long way from that now. This year's 9 should be a decent pick, and if this deal happened the '20 #1 would probably not be a lottery pick.

Kanter is very good off the boards, but I'm not sure he would be a huge impediment, BUT if you swapped Noah for Kanter (salaries are roughly the same) the Knicks might be very amenable to getting him off the books.
 

JakeRae

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So you'd kill LeBron to the Celts over the #27 pick in this year's draft?
No. I simply wouldn't unnecessarily give away the pick when, in the scenario where LeBron has decided he wants to come to Boston, Cleveland would be getting more than sufficient value out of the return on Kyrie to make it worth their while to facilitate him coming here.
 

scottyno

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Celts get LeBron for KI + Morris +Yabu +'18 #1
Knicks get KI for Kanter+ Niki + and '18 and '20 1s.

You can't deviate from the cap math.

Who's getting screwed?
Knicks are getting screwed unless they have an under the table agreement with Kyrie that he's not going anywhere. If he walks then they gave up potentially 3 good/very good young pieces and a very good player in his prime in Kanter who seems to want to stay, for 1 year of Kyrie.
 

the moops

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This scenario needs to be looked at as two separate trades, IMO. If we assume that 1) Lebron makes it clear to CLE he wants to go to BOS, and 2) Kyrie is open to signing with NYK after next year.

So what is a deal that both BOS and NYK could live with for Kyrie? And maybe knock a little something off because the real deal is flipping what NYK gives BOS to CLE for Lebron.

NYK gives Ntikilina, Mudiay, Burke, Kanter, 2021 1st round pick
BOS gives Kyrie, Yabusele

Something like this allows BOS to take back roughly 25.5 million in salary, which is nearly enough to send to CLE for Lebron. CLE wouldn't likely take just that package, so BOS may have to flip some of their assets to make it worth it to CLE

BOS gives Kanter, Morris, Mudiay, Burke, LAC pick, MEM pick
CLE gives Lebron
 

PedroKsBambino

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ESPN has the following up on 'draft trades we'd like to see:'

Kyrie and 27th pick for

Porzingis and NBC (Noah's Bloated Contract)

I don't even know what to do with that---it's thought-provoking at least. I am moderately terrified of Porzingis' health and so I think I say no, even with some risk (likely smaller than it's being portrayed) of losing Kyrie next summer. Fit-wise, though, it's an interesting notion that pushes the window out a little bit

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
 

MillarTime

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ESPN has the following up on 'draft trades we'd like to see:'

Kyrie and 27th pick for

Porzingis and NBC (Noah's Bloated Contract)

I don't even know what to do with that---it's thought-provoking at least. I am moderately terrified of Porzingis' health and so I think I say no, even with some risk (likely smaller than it's being portrayed) of losing Kyrie next summer. Fit-wise, though, it's an interesting notion that pushes the window out a little bit

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
No. Porzingis terrifies me. His frame and injury history are scary and someone on Simmons draft podcast said that he was seen jumping off a yacht a few weeks ago.
 

DJnVa

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Stevens has said that Kyrie (and Hayward) are progressing nicely and should be full go in August and running in the pickup games.
 

MillarTime

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Stevens has said that Kyrie (and Hayward) are progressing nicely and should be full go in August and running in the pickup games.
All of this speculation is fun, but I am ready to bring back the same group, plus Gordon and Kyrie (maybe less Smart) and roll the basketball onto the court.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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ESPN has the following up on 'draft trades we'd like to see:'

Kyrie and 27th pick for

Porzingis and NBC (Noah's Bloated Contract)

I don't even know what to do with that---it's thought-provoking at least. I am moderately terrified of Porzingis' health and so I think I say no, even with some risk (likely smaller than it's being portrayed) of losing Kyrie next summer. Fit-wise, though, it's an interesting notion that pushes the window out a little bit

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
How many firsts would the Knicks be chipping in for Boston's assuming Porzingis' injury risk and paying out the rest of Noah's deal?
 

Reverend

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All of this speculation is fun, but I am ready to bring back the same group, plus Gordon and Kyrie (maybe less Smart) and roll the basketball onto the court.
Please let me know if you don't approve of any of the edits. :)

Man, I'm usually not this eager for a new season this quickly into an off-season. Let's goooooooooo...


Edit Addendum: Quite seriously, the more suggestions for upgrading the team and looking at what it involves and the potential risks and downsides, and then combining that with what I've learned here about the salary structures and how the current team has their upcoming maxes kinda staggered... it just makes me want to see what Danny hath wrought all the more.
 

DavidTai

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Quite seriously, the more suggestions for upgrading the team and looking at what it involves and the potential risks and downsides, and then combining that with what I've learned here about the salary structures and how the current team has their upcoming maxes kinda staggered... it just makes me want to see what Danny hath wrought all the more.
This is the sort of thing that has me rather skeptical about the Leonard rumors. I can more easily buy into the 'trade into the top ten' rumors, -and- I sort of expect that at some point we're gonna be blindsided by a trade of one of the current max salary players for future picks. It's been a pretty nice balancing act of present/future assets vs salary tiering.