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Discussion in '2016 Celtics Game Threads' started by Fishy1, Feb 16, 2017.
Thats some weak shit right there
I can't believe how fucking bad that is.
Barely touched him. Hate to see that called. Did it alter the shot at all? Probably
The last 5 minutes of this game is all the NBA I have watched this year. Calls like that are why.
That was indefensibly bad. That call can't be made in that spot.
Thank god this is an away game or else Tommy would be dead
Maybe...but not a foul regardless.
Zach Zarba is usually pretty good too. Fuck that.
Wow. No clue what the ref was looking at.
Worst call ever
Well then, you've missed one of the most exciting sports seasons of all time
In Stevens we trust
Fingernail graze of a foul.
If there's any justice in this world, Celts will nail a game winner here.
Dictionary bail out call. Totally undeserved to reward a garbage move and penalize good defense.
... while sparing himself massive amounts of aggravation.
Uncharacteric bad shots by IT down the stretch but we've been spoiled. And 26 million dollar man Horford...ugh (7 points, 2 bounds)
Well it's difficult for that to be a tough loss when we all know it was a win. This had blowout schedule loss written all over it so I'm impressed regardless.
That was bullshit.
That call was pretty bullshit, but not their best 4th. Kelly should have taken a few more shots
TNT got their money's worth. good game
So did the Bulls...
trade Bradley for Butler, won't get BS calls against us on Butler and hey Bradley is expendable now!
(I wouldn't trade Avery yet seriously)
I still can't believe James Young was used as a crunch time defensive sub.
Seriously man? Might want to walk that back a bit.
That's fucking ridiculous. Dude stares right at the play, doesn't call a foul, turns to watch the ball, and THEN calls the foul.
The worst part is that he saw the play, watched the ball clang off the rim, and then called a foul. It's either a foul or it isn't. Not a good look.
Butler did the same thing once he saw the miss. Horribly bad
Jaylen Brown is hurt, otherwise James Young isn't playing those minutes.
Just a regular season game so NBD, but it is too bad that on top of costing a win, the stupid call overshadows Smart's really great defensive play on the previous possession that should probably have iced the game.
I think the NBA has the best product out there of the 4 major sports and has as many watchable superstars since...mid-80s....forever?
Every night there is something to watch because of the absurd amount of talent in the league. These last three years have been incredible.
I might well be in the minority but to me the watchability is directly proportional to the amount of ISO/hero ball. The more of it the less I like the product.
I've tried to enjoy the sensation that is IT... but I prefer to watch the passing, movement, spacing Stevens aims for. I loved the Duncan led Spurs dismantling of the heat. I enjoy an awful lot of the warriors play when I can see them.
A lot to enjoy right now but I can do without Mr. 4th Quarter's persona.
The Celtics ran, by my recollection, zero isolation plays in the fourth quarter last night.
Smart also initiated many of the possessions, even with Thomas on the court.
Hating on what IT4 is doing is craaaaazy talk. And, as noted, the idea that the C's play less as a team because of it is also wrong. True, they sometimes lean on him too much (perhaps they did last night) -- and it doesn't always work. But that's true of every superstar and their team on some nights.
But suggesting that the "Mr. 4th Quarter persona" is some stupid media creation that is distracting the C's from playing their "real" game is just wrong. If anything, it's what has put them in the conversation for the #1 seed.
I didn't claim anything about last nights game (though I AM in it's thread). I was responding to Mr Friar's product point, conversing I guess.
I also don't think it is much of a stretch to view ITs approach as hero ball or damn close to it. Edit: and I don't get as much enjoyment out of "my star is better than your star" basketball in general (exceptions exist for Bird/Wilkens etc.). It's primarily why I didn't enjoy Kobe even in the face if his incredible skills.
Finally, thanks for your summary - I actually missed the game and popped in to get a sense of the 4th quarter after seeing the Smart foul call video.
The Bulls final FG was Butler's fadeaway at 4:58 remaining that made it 94-94. Their final 10 points came from going 10/10 from the line.
There were no field goals in the game after Thomas's layup at 2:36 that made it 99-98 Celtics.
In other words, this game would probably be closer to a reason people would say the NBA sucks, if they saw it in a vacuum.
GSW is leading the league in assists per game at 31. Yes, they are a fun team to watch (although with all of the blowouts, not as fun).
Boston is third with 25 a game. As someone said in another thread, Boston rarely blows out anyone or gets blown out by anyone so along with their fantastic ball movement, they play in close games. You are missing something by not watching.
One other thing - I can't help but laughing every time IT4 pulls up for a 29 foot three point dagger or goes to the basket and does something improbable to score a layup. It's so ridiculous how many ways he score for someone whose 5'7".
It really looks to me that he figured if Butler missed that badly he must have been hit harder than it appeared. Terrible look for the NBA, especially on a national game.
I never said anything like the last paragraph, btw. I'll try to write better so I don't leave such mangled impressions for those who take the time to read what I was trying to say.
I will say that I'd like to see a *bit* more in the area of assists from Thomas considering how much he has the ball in his hands. Westbrook and Harden are also leading the league in scoring with Thomas and both average 10 assists a game. Perhaps as teams double team him more often his assists will rise naturally.
I watch the Cs as often as I can and enjoy much of it - just not all of it. If it happens within the flow of the game - what Thomas does offensively *is* amazing. I get turned off when it *feels* like he decides to take over the game. I don't enjoy it when ANY star does it. Maybe it's because I see more of Thomas that I am put off by it more with him.
I do make a point to tell myself to enjoy the regular season games more though. It can't all be perfect/ideal... Lol
How exactly did I mischaracterize your post? You said Thomas doesn't pass enough, plays Hero Ball and compared him to the most selfish player of his generation, before you said you prefer the way Stevens is trying to coach the team. About the only thing I added was that I thought you were suggesting his persona was a media creation.
BTW I don't think anyone would disagree that basketball where 5 guys are playing great together is generally more enjoyable that one guy dominating while the other guys stand around. But my point is that what Thomas is doing is extraordinary – and given their lack of other knock down shooters and rebounders this year, important to their success.
In my initial paragraph I spoke generally and was referring to the NBA product in general. I then mentioned IT but identified teams whose style I preferred. I ended with the agreement that there was a lot to enjoy, but ITs persona was not part if it for me. I didn't slam IT - I didn't hate on him. I just suggested other characteristics of the NBA product was my preference. I thought maybe conversing was allowed in the game thread - even one half a day old.
Show me where in my original post where I mentioned Kobe? Same with my later statement about assists. Those were after your post. But I get it - I wasn't worshipping at the IT altar and that's a game thread requirement in your eyes. The absence of praise is hate in your world.
You want criticism of IT? Check your post here - other players stand around too much while IT is busy being IT. Want an observation from Ainge? If they bring in rebounders to the paint (or trade for rebounders) their defenders come in with them. IT needs everyone out of the paint to be his best - which means they CAN'T rebound systematically only opportunistically. So not only is IT poor defensively - in order to get the most value from him they have to compromise offensive rebounding (not a strength of Stevens system anyway). Want my "hate" on IT beyond his skill weaknesses? He is a "me" player when the best teams desire "team" players. He runs down court not pointing at the Celtics name on his jersey but at his 'watch' - Mr. 4th Quarter!! That's not the media. When the team struggled earlier this year he all but called out Stevens for not getting him the ball. I've said before, I admire players wanting the ball - in a team context.
Get off my lawn, etc. But hey I'll stay out of the game threads because a conversation w/o praise of IT is fighting words. I also expect Smas will be forced to move this out of here as well... sorry Smas! I will stay out of the Cs game threads...
RR, my sense is that he's doing exactly what Stevens wants him to do. He's the best scorer on the team and much of it is taking it to the well. A bucket or free throws are the likely outcome when he drives. I know he shoots a lot of 3's but they are mostly in the flow of the pick n' roll. If he's taking it to the well a lot, I think it's because he's coached to. If they add Jimmy Butler you'll see a lot more of that. It's pretty clear to me that Jaylen has been instructed to do the same. Any time he sees a chance to go to the hole, he does.
Fair point/question, and one I've tried to figure out as well. There is definitely a chicken / egg to it for sure. I came to think Stevens may be tolerating it given the roster construction and inability of others to reliably/consistently function as the driver/slasher against a spaced defense. Bradley could do it but never seems to be able to finish in the trees. Crowder can to a point but doesn't always take the opportunity. I think Brown will continue to mature into it and be a beast at it next season. Doesn't seem to be Smarts game right now. JJ can in very limited spots. I'd defer to others on Young and Rozier being able to. I think in Stevens perfect world the difference would be taking what movement/ball rotation gives you - no matter who it is driving to the basket. This might mean that IT gets a lot of the opportunities because he can take advantage of them. He can do amazing things in turning most situations into something. I think it frequently devolves into IT taking more than his share per se, and that leads to expectation and the other players deferring to IT for the drive/magic. And then it becomes more than I'd bet Stevens would prefer. Edit: this is where the team gets one dimensional as well - and easier to defend. If IT is the only one driving in the 4th quarter because of his rep, then take him away and the Cs will struggle.
(To be clear, I don't have a real issue with ITs 3s. I don't get the sense he is taking them too much out of the flow of the desired offense.)
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during a Stevens / Ainge conversation on this topic.
Edit 2: this is stream of consciousness, didn't mean for it to sound preachy. There's plenty of people here who know more about BB than I do that disagree with me.
RR, I'm not trying to ding you for not worshipping at the IT shrine. I just find it a little odd to be put off by a guy who is doing unprecedented things to keep a real near the top of the conference.
On another note, Butler continues to get asked about the Smart foul at the ASG. Seems like a good dude: