Cheesesteaks vs. Chowdah Part I - The Sixers/Celtics Series Thread

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
Brown made a few really good adjustments during the series. The first and most obvious was using TJ McConnell, who in addition to giving the team an offensive spark really neutralized Rozier for games 4 and 5. Scary Terry wasn't the same guy. I suspect the Cavs will note that.

The other good move was featuring Saric more in the paint. The Celtics didn't really have a good answer for him -- and thank God Embiid's conditioning was shit, because otherwise Al probably doesn't sneak in to steal that ball from Saric at the end there.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
I was down on Brown and the whole Sixers team early in the series, but it seemed they developed more mental toughness as the series went on. Which is, I suppose, the whole point of getting playoff experience.
I would not have wanted to play this same Sixers team in a hypothetical series starting next week: the players are more resilient now, and Brown got more comfortable with adjustments.
That's a good way to put it.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,000
Agreed. Taking those first two games was huge.

I think that Brown did a decent job with adjustments. Hard to know what's going to work sometimes. But he wasn't scared to mix things up once he saw what WASN'T working. And you can't gameplan for Covington shooting like evil Smart or Baynes becoming a legit corner three guy. Given his players, I thought that he did fine. Stevens just did better.
And not just Brown: Simmons and Embiid got noticeably tougher mentally as the series went on.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,000
The other good move was featuring Saric more in the paint. The Celtics didn't really have a good answer for him -- and thank God Embiid's conditioning was shit, because otherwise Al probably doesn't sneak in to steal that ball from Saric at the end there.
Oh man. If Embiid gets in shape to play 38+ minutes hard, that will be utterly terrifying. We got a little glimpse at the end of Game 5 of what happens when you have to double him.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
Oh man. If Embiid gets in shape to play 38+ minutes hard, that will be utterly terrifying. We got a little glimpse at the end of Game 5 of what happens when you have to double him.
They really should go all out to get Kawhi if he becomes available. Use cap space on shooters like Redick, Bradley, etc. and trade some combination of Saric, Covington, Fultz, #10, and future pick for Kawhi.

Really is a big summer for Colangelo.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,580
NOVA
Brown made a few really good adjustments during the series. The first and most obvious was using TJ McConnell, who in addition to giving the team an offensive spark really neutralized Rozier for games 4 and 5. Scary Terry wasn't the same guy. I suspect the Cavs will note that.

The other good move was featuring Saric more in the paint. The Celtics didn't really have a good answer for him -- and thank God Embiid's conditioning was shit, because otherwise Al probably doesn't sneak in to steal that ball from Saric at the end there.
You just need to force him to defend PnRs. He's a liability defensively against the Cavs for sure.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,580
NOVA
I don't agree that Brown should get a lot of credit for series adjustments. It took him almost three games to realize he needed a second ball handler on the floor to complement Simmons and give at least the threat to drive and get involved in PnRs which Rozier really struggles to defend. This was obvious by the second half of game one.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
Worth noting that this series really elevated Tatum's rep in a way the regular season should have but didn't. On a big stage, he came up huge every game -- great finisher at the rim, terrific passer, clutch FT shooter in crunch time. His interview w Ros following last night's game was so poised but also relaxed and carefree. Just a great, great series from this kid.
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,936
I didn't see that one but I saw Rozier's. He spoke very well - maybe not in the King's English, but he showed a good heart and a good mind.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I think that Philly fans should likely feel the way that Bruins fans feel now: a more successful regular season and playoffs than one would have had a right to expect at the start of the season; a young core who will grow and get better; some legitimate needs but mostly on the margins. In Philly's case, they need some veteran help, a defensive stopper, someone with the mental toughness to get the little things done that make a difference -- basically, they need Marcus Smart.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,951
Nashua, NH
Why wouldn't he "speak well"?
You insinuate some BS racial undertones every time that someone mentions that an African American athlete is well spoken. A lot of athletes, regardless of race, can barely put a sentence together. Mentioning that someone speaks well has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the fact that they play sports for a living.
 

mt8thsw9th

anti-SoSHal
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
17,120
Brooklyn
I know I keep pointing it out, because mentioning the speaking abilities of black athletes is a fucking weird thing to do. Sorry for daring to bring it up.

And please, no need to "all lives matter" it by saying it's athletes in general, when 100% of the time "well-spoken" or "articulate" is used to describe black americans, regardless of their profession.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
I know I keep pointing it out, because mentioning the speaking abilities of black athletes is a fucking weird thing to do. Sorry for daring to bring it up.

And please, no need to "all lives matter" it by saying it's athletes in general, when 100% of the time "well-spoken" or "articulate" is used to describe black americans, regardless of their profession.
Meh, whenever an athlete is articulate in an interview, I notice it. Partially because I know that Mrs. TS is going to immediately point it out. Black, white, Asian, whatever, an articulate athlete is noteworthy.

Unrelated and equally of the tangent variety, I thought I'd be more giddy about a Boston team beating a Philly team in the playoffs. And kind of on that score, would any Pats fan not immediately swap out Marcus Smart for Jordan Richards in the secondary?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
They really should go all out to get Kawhi if he becomes available. Use cap space on shooters like Redick, Bradley, etc. and trade some combination of Saric, Covington, Fultz, #10, and future pick for Kawhi.

Really is a big summer for Colangelo.
I wonder if Colangelo looks at what Ainge did after last year's ECF run -- move all but 4 players -- and then decides that if the players surrounding Simmons, Saric and Embiid are not going to get them to the top, then he should make wholesale moves.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
Unrelated and equally of the tangent variety, I thought I'd be more giddy about a Boston team beating a Philly team in the playoffs. And kind of on that score, would any Pats fan not immediately swap out Marcus Smart for Jordan Richards in the secondary?
I did notice that Marcus looked like a damn fine free safety on that play.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
I thought all of the post-game podium interviews were goodt. Brown, Simmons and Embiid from the 76ers side, Stevens, Horford and Brown from the Celtics. All of them gave some really thoughtful answers to the usual run of trite questions.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
I wonder if Colangelo looks at what Ainge did after last year's ECF run -- move all but 4 players -- and then decides that if the players surrounding Simmons, Saric and Embiid are not going to get them to the top, then he should make wholesale moves.
I think he definitely has to take a good, hard look at his roster. It’s easy to fall into the trap of assuming everything will magically improve as your young stars get more experience. Fultz is the major problem here. His struggles have killed his value and his fit with Simmons is really in question. Sixers absolutely cannot afford another Okafor/Noel situation with Fultz if they want to challenge Warriors, Celtics, Rockets, or whatever team LeBron ends up on.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
58,878
San Andreas Fault
This reminds me of the old days when a Boston team would close out a rival on a Saturday and you'd revel in reading the Sunday sports section of the paper you got, and maybe go out and buy another one because you couldn't get enough of it. Except, with the internet, every day is like Sunday. Keep it coming.
 

thehitcat

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 25, 2003
2,376
Windham, ME
I wanted to reply to this from @LondonSox because I actually really had issue with Saric this series.

Saric is so funny you can only hate him literally as you are playing him. He's goofy, competitve, fun, smart and does a bit of everything, he's a Swiss army knife.
It wasn't that he wasn't competitive or good. I took vast issue with his whining (and this coming from a guy who used to root for Kevin McHale...) at every call against him or on every non-call he felt he should have had. I realize that he's young but that sourpuss everytime a call didn't go his way absolutely made me turn on him. I never saw fun or goofy. Just him making a face at the refs.

Also I don't have hate for Embiid, he plays hard and celebrates when it goes well. No issues there.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,679
Also I don't have hate for Embiid, he plays hard and celebrates when it goes well. No issues there.
Except when he gives up on plays on both ends of the floor. And cries when he gets whistled for cheap shots. He's basically a more talented Dwight Howard, but still a clown and I look forward to the day that Marcus Smart tells him to go paint his face.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,580
NOVA
As I've mentioned Brown delayed far too long in playing a second ball handler with Simmons.

Perhaps, he also erred by playing Simmons in general too much.

Sixers with Simmons on the floor: 98 Ortg, 116 drtg.... -18 NET
Sixers with Simmons off the floor: 118 Ortg, 85 drtg.... +33 NET
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,849
NYC
Fun with the Philly Phirst Round Phantasy roster (assuming no butterfly effect, etc.)

2012: Draymond
2013: Giannis
2014: Embiid
2015: Porzingis
2016: Simmons
2017: Tatum

That's, um, a pretty good team.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Unless Embiid or Simmons drastically improve their outside shot, I wonder about their long term pairing. It will be incredibly hard to win in today's NBA starting 2 guys who can't shoot. A real NBA coach will always be able to exploit that in a 7 game series.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,766
Pittsburgh, PA
I know I keep pointing it out, because mentioning the speaking abilities of black athletes is a fucking weird thing to do. Sorry for daring to bring it up.

And please, no need to "all lives matter" it by saying it's athletes in general, when 100% of the time "well-spoken" or "articulate" is used to describe black americans, regardless of their profession.
once again...

 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
Fun with the Philly Phirst Round Phantasy roster (assuming no butterfly effect, etc.)

2012: Draymond
2013: Giannis
2014: Embiid
2015: Porzingis
2016: Simmons
2017: Tatum

That's, um, a pretty good team.
Yeah, that butterfly effect after maybe 2013, would be causing typhoons in Siberia.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,187
All these draft things are fairly ridiculous, if giannis is drafted they aren't getting all the other high picks.
You mean they wouldn’t purposely tank still. He would be a Sixer so the likelihood is he’d be hurt for 1-2 seasons.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,478
Melrose, MA
As a Celtics fan going back to the original Big Three, one little moment from yesterday's game brought a nostalgic smile to my face.

Aron Baynes posted up Embiid and scored on a nice up and under move. Kevin McHale broke it down on the replay, and ended his explanation with, "I know that move VERY well." Yes, Kevin McHale, you surely do.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,717
pawtucket
As a Celtics fan going back to the original Big Three, one little moment from yesterday's game brought a nostalgic smile to my face.

Aron Baynes posted up Embiid and scored on a nice up and under move. Kevin McHale broke it down on the replay, and ended his explanation with, "I know that move VERY well." Yes, Kevin McHale, you surely do.
Embiid's failures in key moments reminded me of Wilt in the old days, the giant ultimately subdued by the Lilliputians. Embiid also did enough to recall the best of Wilt, more so on defense and with his rebounding. His postup skills were disappointing.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,376
As a Celtics fan going back to the original Big Three, one little moment from yesterday's game brought a nostalgic smile to my face.

Aron Baynes posted up Embiid and scored on a nice up and under move. Kevin McHale broke it down on the replay, and ended his explanation with, "I know that move VERY well." Yes, Kevin McHale, you surely do.
LOL. On that move Baynes TOTALLY walked. Just like McHale did routinely. Don't get me wrong - my own basketball game is modeled after McHale and I still smoke college kids all the time with them. But he shuffled his feet all the time and Baynes' walk was egregious on that play.

Go to 1:44 on this highlight video:


Then see McHale here at 0:07... watch him shuffle his feet.


In fact, just watch the whole thing. He moved his pivot foot all the time. Not literally every single time, but OFTEN.
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
15,069
UWS, NYC
Back in the 70s, I used to hate the Sixers so hard that I didn't have room for any hatred in my heart for the Lakers until the 90s. World B. Free, Andrew Toney, Bobby Jones, McGinnis, Dr. J., Moses, Iavaroni, Caldwell Jones -- not to mention Larry Brown and Billy Cunningham -- wow! [Mo Cheeks was cool though, for some reason.]

And Philly sports fans are easy to hate (as, one must admit, are Boston sports fans) and the events of February 2018 did nothing to tamp that down.

But I don't really get the hate for the current Sixers. Embiid strikes me as intelligent, funny, and deserving of respect for having overcome a lot (physical and cultural) to get where he is today. Simmons is a talent to be respected, and hasn't done anything contemptible aside from maybe being prematurely anointed as the chosen one. Brent Brown is a nothing burger from Maine -- if your last name isn't LePage, how do you hate somebody from Maine? Markelle Fultz deserves sympathy (and thanks) more than hate. McConnell is an overachiever in a good way, and the only reason I hate Redick is because he went to Duke -- by all accounts he's a well-respected guy. [The Duke thing is a fireable offense, but, well, Tatum.]

All that sanguinity goes out the door if they add Lebron, of course. [Not that I even dislike Lebron, it just seems like an unnecessary gilding of the lily.] But I'd love to see a developing Celtics team continuing along with the current core and some great new draft picks compete over the next 4-5 years with a developing Sixers team with their current core and some great new draft picks. Could be fun.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,895
Los Angeles, CA
LOL. On that move Baynes TOTALLY walked. Just like McHale did routinely. Don't get me wrong - my own basketball game is modeled after McHale and I still smoke college kids all the time with them. But he shuffled his feet all the time and Baynes' walk was egregious on that play.

Go to 1:44 on this highlight video:


Then see McHale here at 0:07... watch him shuffle his feet.


In fact, just watch the whole thing. He moved his pivot foot all the time. Not literally every single time, but OFTEN.
I honestly don’t see a travel at 0:07. After he picks up the dribble, he maintains his right pivot foot and then jumps off both legs. That’s allowed.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
Yeah, at 7 seconds his pivot foot is his right foot and you're allowed to jump off it.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,376
Yeah, at 7 seconds his pivot foot is his right foot and you're allowed to jump off it.
You guys are kidding right? He pivots on his right foot as he spins into the lane. Then he fakes. And when he starts his "under" move, he picks his right foot off the ground and then replants it and jumps for the layup. And then keep watching the video. He does this in a bunch of the other moves from that side of the floor as well. It's pretty clearly a walk.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,895
Los Angeles, CA
You guys are kidding right? He pivots on his right foot as he spins into the lane. Then he fakes. And when he starts his "under" move, he picks his right foot off the ground and then replants it and jumps for the layup. And then keep watching the video. He does this in a bunch of the other moves from that side of the floor as well. It's pretty clearly a walk.
I wish I could see what you do, but I don't see the bolded part happen at all. I see him pivoting on his right foot, and the first time his right foot comes off the ground is at the jump point. If you call that a travel, then I can understand why you think McHale traveled all the time.

You're talking about the clip that begins at :07, right? Not that it matters too much because I don't see a travel in the clip before it either.
 
Last edited:

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,376
I wish I could see what you are, but I don't see the bolded part happen at all. I see him pivoting on his right foot, and the first time his right foot comes off the ground is at the jump point. Is you call that a travel, then I can understand why you think McHale traveled all the time.

You're talking about the clip that begins at :07, right? Not that it matters too much because I don't see a travel in the clip before it either.
Yes that's the staring point of the move I'm talking about, at 0:07. I guess we don't need to belabor the point but it's screamingly obvious. He literally picks his right foot off the ground as he pivots back to the hoop. He then puts it back on the ground and THEN jumps for his shot. It's short and quick but it happens sure enough.

But whatever. Baynes, at least, took three full steps. At least we can agree on that. :)
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,913
Yes that's the staring point of the move I'm talking about, at 0:07. I guess we don't need to belabor the point but it's screamingly obvious. He literally picks his right foot off the ground as he pivots back to the hoop. He then puts it back on the ground and THEN jumps for his shot. It's short and quick but it happens sure enough.

But whatever. Baynes, at least, took three full steps. At least we can agree on that. :)
Sorry bud but it's you against the world. He rotates his foot but doesn't lift and replant. And his pivot location on the floor of his right foot doesn't change.

I see what you're saying on Baynes but I feel like they allow that hop in today's NBA
 

Eagle3

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 26, 2004
574
Traveling calls, or mostly lack thereof, are a total joke in the NBA. As I mentioned in the game thread, I thought Smart traveled after intercepting the pass at the end of the game. And the NBA confirmed it in their "Last 2 minute report". Luckily they didn't call it. It would be a travesty to call it then after all the others they let go throughout the game. On a side note, I'm a huge hater of the Euro-step. I guarantee the original intent of the rule allowing steps was NOT to allow you to alter your path and maneuver around people in between steps. Problem is the actual written rule is shockingly vague.

Why they bother with that 2 minute report is beyond me. Its a ridiculous exercise to report on what the refs screwed up in the last 2 minutes given that there are plenty of other calls they missed outside of the last 2 minutes that had equal impact on a close game like that.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,376
Sorry bud but it's you against the world. He rotates his foot but doesn't lift and replant. And his pivot location on the floor of his right foot doesn't change.

I see what you're saying on Baynes but I feel like they allow that hop in today's NBA
I can live with me against the world when I'm right. :)

Here are two screen shots. It's not HD but you can see it clearly enough. Look at where the right block is. In the first picture here, the defender's left foot is next to it. The defender will move, so don't use his feet as a reference point. Use the block, which obviously doesn't move. See where McHale's right foot is in this picture - it's behind his left one as you're looking at the picture, and therefore slightly obscured, but you can see it. Look at the position of the foot with respect to the block.



Now look at his right foot a moment later. It happens so quickly in the video but here's his right foot an instant later, after his up fake.



Now look at this picture. It's the two images, with the same length marker to show the distance gained by McHale's foot - measured from the start of the block to the heel of McHale's right foot.



Now you might be tempted to say, he just pivoted on his heel, but that's not the case. He lifts his heel, so his heel is NOT the pivot point. Look here - again fuzzy but you can tell.



Now go back and watch the move again, not relying on the stills. But now that you've seen these, re-watch it. He very very quickly picks up his right foot, turns it, and puts it back down. There is no other way he gains that much ground on his pivot since his heel is not the pivot point (even if it was, he couldn't gain that much ground).

Once you notice that McHale does this, you'll notice that it actually happens regularly. A very, very quick up and down with the foot, almost always when making the up and under from this side of the key. Almost never from the other side, for whatever reason.

I'll rest my case. You guys are welcome to disagree, of course.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,671
Traveling calls, or mostly lack thereof, are a total joke in the NBA. As I mentioned in the game thread, I thought Smart traveled after intercepting the pass at the end of the game. And the NBA confirmed it in their "Last 2 minute report". Luckily they didn't call it. It would be a travesty to call it then after all the others they let go throughout the game. On a side note, I'm a huge hater of the Euro-step. I guarantee the original intent of the rule allowing steps was NOT to allow you to alter your path and maneuver around people in between steps. Problem is the actual written rule is shockingly vague.

Why they bother with that 2 minute report is beyond me. Its a ridiculous exercise to report on what the refs screwed up in the last 2 minutes given that there are plenty of other calls they missed outside of the last 2 minutes that had equal impact on a close game like that.
Very stupid. By the way, they also say Smart fouled Saric and then Saric committed an offensive foul.

That was very clearly a travel, even live, but that is never ever called. The most stupid thing about the Last Two Minute Report is that it could lead to the game being called completely differently in the last two minutes.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,478
Melrose, MA
Very stupid. By the way, they also say Smart fouled Saric and then Saric committed an offensive foul.

That was very clearly a travel, even live, but that is never ever called. The most stupid thing about the Last Two Minute Report is that it could lead to the game being called completely differently in the last two minutes.
Good point. My feeling throughout this series is that the refs frquently swallowed their whistles for long stretches and play was very physical. I didn't see Smart foul Saric on that key turnover (I'm not saying he didn't, I believe the 2-minute report), but the non-call on Saric for planting his shoulder into Smart's chest stunned me. But that just seems like it was par for the course in this series.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
I kind of hate that report too, it makes no difference that they should have whistled the Embiid shot or the smart turnover, to anyone who has ever watched basketball those are not called in the situation.

I hate that it gives people straw to clutch and say it wasn't fair yada yada
Better team won