Chapman to Yankees 5/$86

jon abbey

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I guessed Cashman would go to 4/85 the other day, so that's a very good deal from my perspective, an extra year and a much lower AAV.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Can someone explain to me the point of paying that money to a closer when you have no realistic hope to contend? Is that dismissive to ask that question?
 

Wingack

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Can someone explain to me the point of paying that money to a closer when you have no realistic hope to contend? Is that dismissive to ask that question?
Well, I think they think they can compete next year, and why not when you look around the league?

However, time to trade to Betances to the loser of the Jansen sweepstakes (hopefully the Dodgers).
 

jon abbey

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Can someone explain to me the point of paying that money to a closer when you have no realistic hope to contend? Is that dismissive to ask that question?
No, it's legit but I think the answer might be they have had a lot of money coming off the cap the last few years and not many smart places to spend it. Chapman won't be blocking anyone, still plenty of open bullpen spots for anyone who can step up, add Severino and maybe Domingo Acevedo (wishful thinking but he has hit 103 and has other pitches too) to Betances and Chapman, and other teams had better be ahead after five or six.

If Otani doesn't come after 2017, there won't be great big ticket FA options next offseason either, I think this could easily end up being the only big multiyear deal NY adds from 2015-2017.
 

jon abbey

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Oh, and also he is a draw at a time when they don't have many, maybe seeing the guy who throws faster than anyone in the history of the game seems like an easy sell.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Well, I think they think they can compete next year, and why not when you look around the league?

However, time to trade to Betances to the loser of the Jansen sweepstakes (hopefully the Dodgers).
Well, I guess I just don't see it. It's not MFY hate, I just don't see the roster being one that would lead to a playoff berth or further than that.

Beyond that it seems like a continuation of the muddled nature of your FO. Seems like a rebuild, but no. Gonna save money this year, but no.

I think Cashman is one of the top GMs in the game but I'm constantly wondering if stuff like this is him or Tampa.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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The meddling Tampa group was George and people like Steve Swindal. They're all dead or gone. Cashman won that power struggle years ago and only answers to Hal.
 

RedOctober3829

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Can someone explain to me the point of paying that money to a closer when you have no realistic hope to contend? Is that dismissive to ask that question?
Why won't they be in the mix for a wild card? They were there this year despite terrible seasons by Teixeira, Ellsbury, McCann, Headley, Hicks, and A-Rod. They replace McCann and Teixeira with a full year of Sanchez and Greg Bird. Holliday replaces Beltran's production. Their pen right now is solid with Chapman, Betances, Clippard as the back end. Rotation is mediocre with Tanaka, Sabathia, and Pineda plus 2 young guys. I could see them adding another starter.

They'll be in the mix for a WC.
 

jon abbey

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Betances is under control through 2019, I thought it was longer, so I think I agree it's worth shopping him at least to the Dodgers. The Nats probably don't have the prospects anymore and MIA never did. Maybe Texas or even Houston? Betances and Mateo for Bregman, who says no?
 

JohntheBaptist

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Always nice to have some fresh reasons to hate the Yankees. Acquiring this shithead not once, but twice--once at a discount because he'd just assaulted his girlfriend, and now (with other options available) for the largest contract ever given a RP--tremendously good look.

Now here's where someone incorrectly informs me I'd root for him if he pitched for the Red Sox.
 

hbk72777

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Well, I guess I just don't see it. It's not MFY hate, I just don't see the roster being one that would lead to a playoff berth or further than that.

Beyond that it seems like a continuation of the muddled nature of your FO. Seems like a rebuild, but no. Gonna save money this year, but no.

I think Cashman is one of the top GMs in the game but I'm constantly wondering if stuff like this is him or Tampa.

If this was MLB 1998, I'd agree, but in this new era with more playoff slots, anything can happen. We've also seen teams turn it around much faster, the Cubs were 16 games under 500 in '14 and won 97 in '15 and 103 this year.

The Chapman signing is one of those "get him while you can" signings to me. Even if they they don't do anything this year, maybe next year they have a new starter or 2 from FA or trading their overflow of prospects. Also, we've seen plenty of games where the Yankees had the lead when their starter left, only to see it blown by middle relievers . Now they have Betances moved back up to the 7-8th (and probably can pitch more than 1 inning again without worrying about closing) ,which settles a part of that problem. They still have Clippard this year, so they're back to having a good final 3 again.



And this didn't help down the stretch either

https://www.nysportsday.com/2016/09/15/russell-its-not-betances-pitching-its-his-fielding/
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Always nice to have some fresh reasons to hate the Yankees. Acquiring this shithead not once, but twice--once at a discount because he'd just assaulted his girlfriend, and now (with other options available) for the largest contract ever given a RP--tremendously good look.

Now here's where someone incorrectly informs me I'd root for him if he pitched for the Red Sox.
Yep. While I know he makes them a better team I'm glad he won't be playing for the Red Sox and can take some small solace in being able to hate him just a little bit more because of the pinstripes.
 

B H Kim

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Oh, and also he is a draw at a time when they don't have many, maybe seeing the guy who throws faster than anyone in the history of the game seems like an easy sell.
I find it hard to believe that there are a material number of people who would not otherwise buy tickets, but will do so and sit through eight innings just on the chance that they'll get to see the closer pitch.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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$86 million to pitch 1 inning maybe 2 when called upon is crazy. Especially when you already have Betances. This is a waste.
 

moondog80

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The Yankees have a lot of payroll room in the upcoming years -- Ellsbury and Tanaka are the only huge, long-term deals. With this they're still well under 100 mil committed to 2019, the year of Harper/Machado. As long as they stay disciplined between now and then (and next year's class is relatively weak as well), there's no way this deal prevents them from doing whatever they want spending-wise. So why not?
 

hbk72777

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I find it hard to believe that there are a material number of people who would not otherwise buy tickets, but will do so and sit through eight innings just on the chance that they'll get to see the closer pitch.

Didn't a ton of people buy No Run DMC shirts last year? The guy is a draw. You probably can't know the exact number without stadium polling, but I'm sure there are more than a few. The guy is an anomaly
 

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Can someone explain to me the point of paying that money to a closer when you have no realistic hope to contend? Is that dismissive to ask that question?
Here's my theory for an answer to your question:
With a young team, there will be a fair amount of blowout losses. So when you are close, you want to make absolutely certain you book those wins, for morale even if it doesn't matter in the standings.

And with the likelihood that there may be a lot of non-save situations, thereby increasing the days between save opps, you can be sure you see Chapman for those days, maybe even for >3 out saves.
 

TheoShmeo

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Always nice to have some fresh reasons to hate the Yankees. Acquiring this shithead not once, but twice--once at a discount because he'd just assaulted his girlfriend, and now (with other options available) for the largest contract ever given a RP--tremendously good look.

Now here's where someone incorrectly informs me I'd root for him if he pitched for the Red Sox.
I'm with you on the Chapman signing giving me a fresh reason to hate the MFYs. And hating the MFYs is one of the truly enjoyable parts of baseball for me.

And no, I would not deign to tell you or anyone else who they would root for. The heart wants what it wants.

But I admit it. I'm enough of an opportunist and homer that I'd put my distaste fully aside if Chapman was closing games for the Sox. There's a lack of consistency there, I know. But I'm ok with that...this whole sports fan thing -- rooting for guys who I don't know and who don't give two shits about me -- is not fully logical in the first place.

Is is too much to hope for that Maddon might have Proctored Chapman in the playoffs?
 

sodenj5

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Haven't the Yankees and Cashman openly admitted that they aren't really contenders this year and they're more focused on developing the talent they have?

Acquiring a closer for 17 million/year is a win-now move to put a contending team over the top, not a move to put a team that hasn't made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years into the wild card conversation.

I guess I should be pleased that they still have no long term plan or vision that they stick to.
 

jon abbey

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I am looking forward to revisiting this thread in a few years.
 

Average Reds

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I am looking forward to revisiting this thread in a few years.
As am I.

The issue isn't so much that this is a terrible move - to me, Chapman is the best out there and it's not close - it's that it is almost completely misaligned with the idea of a rebuild that has them being competitive in the 2018/19 timeframe. Or, if not misaligned, then peculiarly structured, in the sense that Chapman's opt-out occurs at the moment that he will be of most value to the Yanks, which almost guarantees him an absurd additional payday.

Maybe this is what they need to sign him now with the understanding that they'll re-evaluate down the road based on whether they have built the team they think they're going to have. Just a bit surprising to me.
 

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I don't mind this move at all. We need bullpen certainty with the carousel of starters and 6-7th inning guys we are planning to feature for the next 2 years. Sure, he's expensive, but the Yankees have a crapload of salary room until 2019. They have a chance at a WC this year and only missed it last year because of Betances meltdowns down the stretch.
 

jon abbey

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The issue isn't so much that this is a terrible move - to me, Chapman is the best out there and it's not close - it's that it is almost completely misaligned with the idea of a rebuild that has them being competitive in the 2018/19 timeframe. Or, if not misaligned, then peculiarly structured, in the sense that Chapman's opt-out occurs at the moment that he will be of most value to the Yanks, which almost guarantees him an absurd additional payday.
Again, it allows them to move Betances in the next year or so for prospects if they so choose, and he seems like the best FA option in the three offseasons spanning 2015-2017 to fit NY's personnel, signing an outfielder for instance long term would block guys like Judge and Frazier and Fowler and Rutherford. The Yankees really didn't have many good ways to spend big money on a salary and they think Chapman has as good a chance to hold his value through his contract as any big money signing, plus he is at a position where he doesn't block anyone, there are still plenty of bullpen spots open. Also they don't lose a draft pick.

NY should easily be under the luxury tax in 2018, I doubt they will make any more big-money signings and they may still move guys like Gardner or Headley. This signing almost certainly won't affect their capability of signing anyone else they need/want, or at least that is part of their thinking currently.
 

moondog80

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This signing almost certainly won't affect their capability of signing anyone else they need/want, or at least that is part of their thinking currently.
This is the bottom line. Maybe they win the WC with him in 2017 or 2018. And if not, and he falls apart in 2019, they just get someone else with zero impact on the payroll.
 

hbk72777

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Again, it allows them to move Betances in the next year or so for prospects if they so choose, and he seems like the best FA option in the three offseasons spanning 2015-2017 to fit NY's personnel, signing an outfielder for instance long term would block guys like Judge and Frazier and Fowler and Rutherford. The Yankees really didn't have many good ways to spend big money on a salary and they think Chapman has as good a chance to hold his value through his contract as any big money signing, plus he is at a position where he doesn't block anyone, there are still plenty of bullpen spots open. Also they don't lose a draft pick.

NY should easily be under the luxury tax in 2018, I doubt they will make any more big-money signings and they may still move guys like Gardner or Headley. This signing almost certainly won't affect their capability of signing anyone else they need/want, or at least that is part of their thinking currently.

Most people aren't going to get it. This is an excellent piece when there are so few FA worth getting this year or next. They have a ton of prospects that they can either blossom or be moved for a #1 starter. They are in no way "years" from contending, they can be competitive this year or next, we don't know. They're getting a full year of Sanchez, Greg Bird is back, Arod is gone which gives Girardi much more flexible lineups. People expected them to fall apart after trading Chapman/Miller/Beltran last year, and they went 17-11 in August. This isn't like the 1990 team signing a closer like Eckersley
 

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This is the bottom line. Maybe they win the WC with him in 2017 or 2018. And if not, and he falls apart in 2019, they just get someone else with zero impact on the payroll.
Help me understand how, in the scenario you've outlined, they could "get someone else with zero impact on the payroll?"
 

hbk72777

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And in the end, We basically traded Brendan Ryan to the Cubs for Castro, Crawford , Torres, McKinney since we got Warren and Chapman back
 

Average Reds

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Again, it allows them to move Betances in the next year or so for prospects if they so choose, and he seems like the best FA option in the three offseasons spanning 2015-2017 to fit NY's personnel, signing an outfielder for instance long term would block guys like Judge and Frazier and Fowler and Rutherford. The Yankees really didn't have many good ways to spend big money on a salary and they think Chapman has as good a chance to hold his value through his contract as any big money signing, plus he is at a position where he doesn't block anyone, there are still plenty of bullpen spots open. Also they don't lose a draft pick.

NY should easily be under the luxury tax in 2018, I doubt they will make any more big-money signings and they may still move guys like Gardner or Headley. This signing almost certainly won't affect their capability of signing anyone else they need/want, or at least that is part of their thinking currently.
As I said, I like the signing - with the caveat that I think Chapman is an idiot for non-baseball reasons - I just think the timing of Chapman's opt-out is a huge negative for the Yankees going forward.

But I think most opt-outs are insane from the club's perspective and I don't want to kick that up here, so I'll let it drop.
 

jon abbey

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Help me understand how, in the scenario you've outlined, they could "get someone else with zero impact on the payroll?"
I think what he means is that they would move up a minor leaguer like Acevedo (seemingly a Betances clone) or someone else already in the system.
 

moondog80

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Help me understand how, in the scenario you've outlined, they could "get someone else with zero impact on the payroll?"
They won't have to clear payroll, or forgo their plans to get Harper, if they need to replace Chapman. There will be room in the budget.
 

Average Reds

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They won't have to clear payroll, or forgo their plans to get Harper, if they need to replace Chapman. There will be room in the budget.
OK, that's what I thought you were saying.

In the scenario you outlined, that's incorrect. The opt-out is Chapman's option, so "if his arm falls off" they still have to pay him and they will need to add payroll for a replacement.

I mean, if they have room, that's fine. But the post I responded to made it seem as if that was a feature of the contract, and it is not. So a minor misunderstanding on my part.
 
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moondog80

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OK, that's what I thought you were saying.

In the scenario you outlined, that's incorrect. The opt-out is Chapman's option, so "if his arm falls off" they still have to pay him and they will need to add payroll for a replacement.

Sure, they'll need to add payroll, but if it doesn't prohibit them from making the other moves they want, who cares? Maybe that's not true if they make ten deals like this. But if they stay disciplined the rest of this off season and next (which should be relatively easy given the lackluster FA options), they can sign Harper and Machado and replacement closer with ease. Including Chapman, they have 74 mil in payroll commitments for 2019 -- 150 mil less than their payroll last year.
 

Wingack

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Also, while he has a high ceiling I think Chapman also has a high floor. If it all falls apart for him he will still probably be an extremely powerful weapon through his age 34 season.
 

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Also, while he has a high ceiling I think Chapman also has a high floor. If it all falls apart for him he will still probably be an extremely powerful weapon through his age 34 season.
And he won't need to be abused by Girardi for the first two years of the deal if they are not in an important race, potentially preserving him.