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Celtics in 18-19

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by RedOctober3829, May 28, 2018.

  1. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Celtics can take in 125% of total outgoing salary. So yes, that is correct.
     
  2. ZMart100

    ZMart100 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, for some reason I used 120%. The larger point remains that Smart is the easiest way to match.
     
  3. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    ESPN RPM has Marcus Smart with the 13th highest RPM in the NBA.

    Four players on the Celtics play more minutes than him. Marcus has to fight and claw for court time, he isn't getting any extra love from the Celtics thats for sure.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm
     
  4. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    I'd really, really like to see Kyrie and 37% Smart playing a staggered 36+ mins each, at least in the playoffs. They're confident in Smart bringing the ball up the floor now, and he works so much better than Rozier in a Brown/Hayward/Baynes lineup.
     
  5. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    That's a bit of a hot take. The players that get more minutes than Smart all play very different roles:

    Kyrie is the superstar and should get the most minutes of anyone.

    Tatum is clearly a guy they really like, and illustrates that the Celtics don't put all their weight into a stat like RPM, which has its known limitations. Also, Smart and Tatum are not really competing with each other for minutes in the first place.

    Horford is their center, and with Baynes having struggled with injuries most of the season, Stevens hasn't had much choice.

    Maybe one could quibble with Morris getting more minutes than Smart. But some of that is the impact of Hayward being on the second unit as he comes back from injury, and the fact that Morris has been really quite good.

    EDIT: When rotations shorten in the playoffs, I would expect Smart to get more minutes. For now, I'm OK with the Celtics trying to keep everyone fresh for the stretch run.
     
  6. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Add
    In the last 2+ months Smart is playing more minutes/game than either Morris or Horford.
     
  7. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Hot take? I think we've all been watching Marcus for a few years, as has the entire league. He worked extremely hard on his 3pt shot and diet in the 2017 Summer (w/Chauncey). He battled injuries, the pressure of a contract season, and a very ill mother all last year. Danny dragged out his contract negotiations for quite a while last Summer and basically made his agent beg for a deal. Not sure the Celtics roll the red carpet out for Marcus.

    As far as his minutes, they should climb since he is capable of guarding everyone on the floor and Rozier is barely capable of guarding guards.

    Back to the main point here: Smart shouldn't be viewed as salary filler in an AD deal. Rozier S&T should be used for that.
     
  8. DavidTai

    DavidTai Member SoSH Member

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    Any chance of signing and trading Morris to NO with their acquisition of the other Morris?
     
  9. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    For that to work, they'd have to sign Rozier for $22 mil. Not happening.
     
  10. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    The contract negotiations have little to do with the how the Celtics view Smart. They used their leverage as Smart was an RFA, which teams do for RFA guys that are clearly less than max level players. With the luxury tax lingering on the horizon, Ainge had no choice but to use that leverage. Other teams knew that Ainge would like match and therefore didn't bother offering Smart a contract, which would accomplish little else than tie up their salary cap space for 2 days. And noone was going to offer Smart the max.

    Ainge didn't have a crystal ball that would tell him Smart's 3 point shooting would jump by 70 points; had that happened a year or two earlier, than last summer's negotiations would have likely had taken a different course.
     
  11. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Given their relationship and New Orleans’ likely preference to keep their shiny new toys surrounded by vets I’d say yes.
     
  12. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    They have to get to 21.6 million. Rozier S+T will only count for half, but they could do something like Tatum (7.8), Baynes (5.2), Yabu (3.1) + Rozier (S+T at anything north of 11 mill/year) works.
     
  13. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    To convince Morris or Rozier to sign long-term in NO they are going to have to really overpay either one which doesn't make a ton of sense from NO's perspective. I don't see a match here.
     
  14. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    If both Rozier and Marcus Morris would agree to a S and T with the Pels, in a deal along with Tatum, they would have to be paid around $25 million combined. The Pels would probably have to overpay each a bit to make it happen, or in Morris' case, agree to sign his brother.

    Rozier is probably worth $13 million a year, and If the Pels gave Morris a three year deal at $40 million, and gave a similar deal to his brother, that could get it done. They could have a team with payroll flexibility and only one top paid player, until Tatum ages into a max deal

    There would be a bit of a logjam at PF with Morris, Morris, and Randle, but they could play small against a lot of teams. They would also not have to face huge decisions about maxing out or paying big for iffy talent like Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball if they took the Lakers trade.

    The Celtics deal gives the Pels their future superstar, and enough talent to become 6-8 playoff team immediately. If they add talent in the next few drafts, they could be in a better spot than slogging along as a 45 win team with AD
     
    #2764 TripleOT, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  15. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    You're assuming Baynes opts in and I'm not sure he does, especially not to be traded away to NO.
     
  16. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Why would you need to overpay Terry to play in NO? He is a restricted free agent, and teams will be reluctant to tie up space, and he is a fringe starter, so it's not like he will demanding to go to a playoff team. NO seems like a perfect place for him in fact. He can play alongside Holiday and share PG responsibilities
     
  17. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Randle is probably opting out at the end of the season. He'll get more than 1/10.
     
  18. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Because only 50% of his contract would count towards a trade because he's a BYC.

    HRB is assuming summer trade. So it would be an S+T.
     
  19. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Who do either Morris or Rozier benefit from a sign-and-trade? I can understand why Rozier may do it, as it could be the way for him to get the highest salary as an RFA. But why Morris? Seems like he could get equal dollars playing where he wants, unless NO is his top choice.
     
  20. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    NO might be his top choice if that's where his brother is.
     
  21. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, I understand that, but there are additional salaries that can be added to make it work which do not require an overpay.

    I guess it depends on what you think is an overpay. There is more money out there than last year, so him getting something north of Smart doesn't seem out of line. So if he signs for 15 million per, added to Tatum + Yabu, means you need to come up with an additional 3 million. Or take out Yabu and add in Baynes and you are pretty much there
     
  22. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I doubt Baynes would opt in just to be traded to NO but I could be wrong.
     
  23. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Um, yes please???



    Opposing executives believe the Boston Celtics will be among the teams with interest in Enes Kanter if/when the Knicks big man parts ways with NYK.
     
  24. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    He's an offensive rebounding force, but DRPM has always had him as about the worst defensive center in the league. Not sure I see the fit.
     
  25. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I think he'd be great on the 2nd unit.
     
  26. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Look at this way, Kanter on a 2/17 deal is going to be a great fit come July 1st...
     
  27. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    No thanks.

    Greg Monroe redux
     
  28. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    If Kanter is coming that would raise my Baynes concern. That injury came out of nowhere
     
  29. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    Isn't DeAndre Jordan available? He'd be a much better fit.
     
  30. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    If the Celtics goal is to sign one of these about to be bought out bigs, my guy would be Robin Lopez. Only one of the three that I think would play team defense. Kanter plays none, DJ won't leave the paint ever because he wants those rebound numbers.
     
  31. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Lakers were 16/1 before trade deadline.
     
  32. Rustjive

    Rustjive Member SoSH Member

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    With the option to use the taxpayer MLE to get a 2nd year for salary matching purposes, the numbers are lining up perfectly. Yabusele will be making $3,117,240. Jaylen Brown will be making $6,524,829. The MLE guy, whoever he is, will be making 5.337m * 1.05 = $5.603m. If they sign and trade Terry Rozier for $13m/year, then (6.5+5.603+6.524+3.117)*1.25 and they can match up to $27.4m in salary coming in. AD is making $27.093m. If Tatum (7.83m) is going out then Rozier's contract gets even more flexible.
     
  33. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Markieff is an unrestricted free agent this summer, so him being on New Orleans today is kind of irrelevant. He's probably getting bought out anyways.

    I'm confused by these suggestions of using Rozier or Morris in a sign and trade with New Orleans. One of their goals in an AD trade is getting off money owed to Solomon Hill and E'Twaun Moore. They aren't going to willfully agree to tie up their cap space long-term with non-difference makers. Smart is different because he can probably be flipped for an additional draft asset.
     
  34. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    The idea is Markieff gets bought out and the Celtics sign him for 2 years using the MLE.
     
  35. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The bolded perfectly applies to the season the New England Patriots just had too. Just throwing that out there.

    I'm more encouraged by the fact that they've played some very good basketball against some of the best teams in the NBA than I am worried about them playing poorly against some of the worst teams in the NBA. I think it's important that they know and believe that they can compete with the best.
     
  36. ehaz

    ehaz Member SoSH Member

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    2,082
    At least Kanter can complain in the locker room about how awful the entire Knicks organization is. That might be more useful to this franchise than just a body.
     
  37. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    It's so weird to me that people keep thinking of Smart as filler in the deal. The dude is not even 25, is probably the best defensive guard in the game, has made huge strides in shooting and playmaking, complements Kyrie perfectly, and makes $12M/yr the next 3.5 years.

    If you're willing to deal Tatum, you do whatever it takes to keep Smart. Fortunately, this MLE move suggests Danny/Zarren agree.
     
  38. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Ha.
     
  39. AMS25

    AMS25 Member SoSH Member

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    He was pretty good on the Thunder's second unit -- has soft hands and awesome on the boards. But, the Thunder ultimately didn't play him much during the playoffs because they couldn't hide his defense.
     
  40. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Both those guys are expiring next year and at least in the case of Moore, he has positive trade value. There is no reason to attach Moore to AD. Perhaps Hill, but what is NO planning on doing with that cap space? There are not many teams that can offer a package of good young players + picks + salary relief
     
  41. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Right--the standard price for dumping one year at $14M (Hill) is a 1st rounder in the high teens to 20s. Faried to the Nets was a good example. NO can just take a similar pick from Boston, and attach it to Hill in a later deal to a team with space.
     
  42. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yes. Smart's a perfect fit on this team, because he brings a different kind of value than the others. He'd be a poor fit on a team that needed/wanted him to be creating his own offense.
     
  43. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Boston doesn’t need to send Rozier to New Orleans, he can be S&Ted to any of the teams looking for scoring guards to play 1 as part of the Davis deal and New Orleans get draft picks from the third team and a TPE to use to gather more assets.
     
  44. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    You and I agree 100% here...There is no way Marcus Smart is filler, 24 and with his contract, he's worth way too much to the Celtics to include w/Tatum.
    You can look at his RPM (#13 in the NBA), def/off net rating (+8.5), whatever stat you want BUT most importantly Smart is the perfect backcourt partner for a ball dominant Kyrie and Brad's switchy defense.
     
  45. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    The only thing I'd adjust here is that Smart is also good for Kyrie because Smart is good on the ball too, which lets Kyrie get into actions coming off the ball more. It's also why I think Smart would do great in heavier minutes, playing the same role on the 2nd unit some with Brown and Hayward.
     
  46. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    This is truth.

    It is good variety for the offense and helps wear and tear on Kyrie--physical and mental--to have Marcus run a percentage of the sets with Kyrie running screens.

    Marcus distributes the ball well and can generally handle all of the duties of the PG position. Rarely does it bite us in the ass.
     
  47. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    They are going to need more matching salary then if Rozier goes to a third team
     
  48. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Tatum $7.8 million
    MLE player ≈ $5.6 million
    Yabusele $3.1 million
    TimeLord $1.9 million

    That’s $18.4 million, they just need another $4 million. Do you really expect Rozier to get sub-MLE money on his next deal? Even if the sign & trade contract is for Marcus Smart money that brings Boston to $24.6 million.

    It’s easier if Rozier goes to New Orleans, of course, but this is for all the We have to trade Marcus Smart now!!! people who insist that New Orleans would never want a scoring guard. Even if Rozier gets sent to a third team as part of the deal, Boston still gets 50% of the contract value to use in trade.
     
  49. Montana Fan

    Montana Fan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Surprised this hasn't been posted by Hoganbaynes. Of course it's not definitive but it would be pretty nice to have a healthy Baynes for the playoff run.

     
  50. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This Celtic team’s best skill is taking whole quarters (and sometimes halves) off.
     

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