Celtics in 18-19
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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After arguably his career game too. That sucks. I'm not a big Theis guy but he was looking good and plays a role. We'll be seeing more of Williams.
I'd love to see more of Williams but I bet Semi and Yabu take most of Theis' minutes once Baynes is back.
Wait, we are a team in developmental mode? I don't see Theis' injury affecting Williams much it is the Horford/Baynes 5 rotation where he will get his minutes. I just hate seeing Semi out there as he's a pretty decent downgrade unless he makes a leap off last season......which as a 2nd year player is certainly possible.
No? But Williams has a chance to grow into a real contributor over the course of the season and I enjoy watching him.
I don't think giving a rookie big 10 minutes a game in order to "develop" him means that the team is in development mode. Because of injuries last year, Semi got 15 minutes a game. With Theis hurt, I would imagine we might see something similar with Williams, especially with Baynes getting banged up
Agreed. Semi provides zero help with rim protection. He is nothing more than filler at wing. Brad will probably go from a 10 to 9 man rotation in tight games. It will be Horford/Baynes at the 5.
BUT I wouldn't completely dismiss Williams, he could play if he exhibits good D. Al and Baynes (already been dinged up) will get beaten and they are on the older side, they will need days off. Brad isn't opposed to playing unheralded rookies in key spots if they play strong situational defense (ie starting Semi in playoffs against Giannis).
BSF said that losing Theis isn't a bad thing. He later clarified that he enjoys watching Williams play which sometimes I don't take the fan into account and only looking at the team as a whole. I am ok with losing a couple guys from our rotation due to its redundancy but Theis isn't one of those guys who is redundant and needs the ball like a Jaylen or MaMo.
I did like Williams out of the draft and he's looked very intriguing in limited minutes. This will be a good opportunity for him in the games we have either Horford or Baynes missing. Maybe he'll be that rare rookie who can contribute on a championship team.
Not to jump on you but I didn't. I said seeing more of Williams "does not suck." My preference is obviously for Theis to be healthy and Williams to still get some opportunities along the way.
I apologize. I just re-read the quote where you responded. Carry on. /sticks head in sand
No worries. Everyone gets a mulligan today. I will miss Theis since he is a very good bench piece but the silver lining is that Williams should get some more opportunities to demonstrate continued growth. Hopefully Theis can return at some point and Brad has a tough decision to make later on in the year.
I think the Theis/Williams argument breaks down to this. If it was the playoffs, the Celts would absolutely be better off having Theis right now. He’s a known commodity who has worked his was into a specific role over the last year plus. But, and I don’t know much about Theis’ injury and the recovery time, right now it might actually be better in the long term for Williams to get more minutes. They play different games, and if Williams can build a foundation as a rebounder, rim protector and defensive specialist this year it just gives Brad another option come playoffs
Do they? They seem to have a similar game. Theis has a little more range and a better offensive game atm, but he's not on the team for his offense. Williams definitely has more upside but their games don't seem that different to me other than Theis is further along in development with a lower ceiling.
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This is a decent take on the situation. With Baynes coming back, Brad was only going to play Theis a handful of minutes. Potentially playing Williams those few minutes shouldn't alter any games.
In a perfect world, we have Baynes and Theis share the 5 for ~36 minutes a game during the regular season and then have Al play the highest leverage minutes at the 5. With Williams filling in when one of them need a night off.
But that's my pipe dream, and Brad isn't buying it.
I think some of Theis' minutes may go to Williams, but he will have to beat out Baynes, Yabu, Ojeleye, and smaller lineups for every single minute he gets.
Unless a Horford or Baynes injuries occurs I'm guessing any extra minutes going to either Williams, Ojeleye, or Yabu are going to be matchup specific barring a breakout season by one of them. I doubt very much it will be Yabu as he's completely worthless aside from being a big body who can play a 3-point shooter on tv.
We obviously don't have much tape on Williams yet but I view them differently. Theis comes in when there are more shooters on the floor since he seems to have a bit more speed and range to cover the 3PT line and doesn't get killed on switches. Williams seems to be more a stay at home protect the rim when there is a player like KI on the floor. Offensively Theis seems to be in the right place at the right time, and we don't have enough on Williams from that end to know for sure.
Yuck, don't like this one bit. That's $3.1M of ownership money flushed down the drain.
Since Yabu is clearly not a 'wing', 5's are for sale. I'd have allocated that money towards bringing Theis back next season
I assume this is with an eye toward having the low-to-mid-level contracts that can be valuable in trade.
Have to find the source, but someone did the calc that Brown+Smart+Yabu is just over exactly enough to match Anthony Davis.
Taking Yabu over LeVert was annoying. I get that they needed a guy they could stash but, man, I never saw anything even remotely intriguing about Yabu.
I think the trade ballast guesses are probably correct. I think Danny’s got another big deal in him in the next 12 months.
I think the trade ballast guesses are probably correct. I think Danny’s got another big deal in him in the next 12 months.
It’s not flushed anywhere. He’s one of those middle contracts that could be useful in trade, and if it doesn’t work out they’ll just send him someplace like Atlanta.
That's part of why they did this. I also think that they like him and think he has trade value. But I did expect them to pass.
Edit: "Trade value" might have been the wrong word. What I meant was that they figure he has at least neutral value - if they want to shed the contract without parting with any additional value, they think they could - not that they can turn and deal him for a legit asset.
Curious - why do you care about the money?
Theis is going to be a RFA next year. I doubt that the approximately $2M of funds is going to make a huge difference to ownership as Kyrie's new contract is going to take them into the luxury tax next year. They must be making bank on this team as of this moment as I'm sure they are budgeting for HOU-level luxury payments into the near future.
Note that Celtics Blog did a nice projection of Cs future salaries here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/7/27/17599624/boston-celtics-luxury-tax-problem-projecting-future-payroll-kyrie-irving-gordon-hayward-al-horford
In fact, I think the opposite take is correct here - if the Cs had declined Yabu's option. I would be worried about what they were thinking financially. Not having Yabu's contract on the books isn't going to get them under the luxury tax, so if they are worried about paying the tax on the approximately $2M difference between Yabu and an end-of-the-bench guy, what are they going to do when they are approximately $7M over the luxury tax before they have to decide whether to resign Horford?
Dynasties always feel inevitable, right up until they don't. The Warriors are clearly better than the 2012-2013 Heat, but even having one of their stars banged up would put them in similar territory, particularly wrt depth. And the Celtics, if they're playing with purpose on offense, are better than those Spurs teams imo.
It's not a perfect comp, but you don't have to squint that hard. We've already somewhat forgotten just how good LeBron+Wade+Bosh were.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge likes him. Yabu has a nice skill set and is still pretty young. I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn into a useful player.
Either way, it seems clear now that they value trade optionality and slight upside over avoiding the repeater tax.
I'm less concerned about the money and more bothered with Yabu's lack of development. I've lost my patience with him. He's a 5. He has not developed a reliable 3 pt shot where he can extend the defense. I also don't see him as an athletic/mobile rim protector on defense. I see him as a liability on the floor, that will awkwardly run over another Celtic by accident.
I'd like to see Horford/Baynes/Theis play the majority of the minutes at the 5 and use development minutes for Williams this season.
Next offseason we could find an experienced, cheap 5 ring chaser, OR we could have a young 5 develop in Maine OR the Celts could use one of their later 2019 draft picks to take a young athletic 5. Yabu really doesn't have a role on this team next year, not sure why you have to guarantee him $3.1MM.
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LeVert was a lottery pick who slipped due to his recurring foot problems. The Nets got themselves a steal if he's able to stay healthy. If you're looking for a big deal in Ainge root for the Pelican's 3-game losing streak to stretch to say 10 or so......or however many it would need to be to get Demps fired.
We've seen Yabu play 18 minutes this season. You really want to evaluate his development or lack thereof based on that?
Couldn’t it be argued his lack of playing time reflects his lack of development?
Baynes/Theis have both been injured and missed games. And Yabu has only played 18minutes, that tells me something. We have 4 guys ahead of him for one spot.
He was useless* last season, was hoping he'd come back in great condition. Disappointed he didn't take the offseason to dedicate himself to the gym and trim down.
As most have stated around here, nothing more than trade ballast.
*that's a bit harsh. I'm rooting for Guershon and hope he does well. He seems like a good teammate, the guys like him, and he hustles. BUT I see the same player that showed up last season. A guy looking to launch an ill-advised 3 and setting moving screens.
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I don't know what this team's ceiling is but they held the Bucks to 31% from three which is actually about 3.5% points above their season average thus far. Milwaukee actually shot a pretty hefty 48.2% FG% but that was a function of Giannis getting what he wanted near the rim more than anything else. The point is, if they can defend the three point like this all season, they are going to be extremely difficult to beat in a five or seven game series. In addition, their depth is staggering - with no Brown or Theis they still managed to trot out six players (Semi!!!!) who scored in double figures - and though they won't shoot 43.6% from deep on the regular, they did it against the second best 3P% defensive team in the league tonight.
To summarize, I know that several posters have joked about 82-0 or now 80-2 but if, as some observed in the game and other threads, they start clicking on all cylinders, good luck. HRB may be right about contract year behavior derailing them but as it stands now, this team is poised to be a juggernaut.
To summarize, I know that several posters have joked about 82-0 or now 80-2 but if, as some observed in the game and other threads, they start clicking on all cylinders, good luck. HRB may be right about contract year behavior derailing them but as it stands now, this team is poised to be a juggernaut.
Yeah. He couldn't compete with Theis for playing time. Robert Williams has been playing above him recently.
Semi played 24 minutes before tonight and then had 10 points, 5 rebounds and 2 steals in 22 minutes because of a specific matchup.
I know you know BBall. I know you know that the Cs are not evaluating him on the 18 minutes he played. The Cs see him every day in practce. They are not going to throw away $2M just because they think he is handsome.
He may not amount to anything but he's got more upside potential than the Walt Lemon Jrs of the world. I'm glad the Cs exercised his option. It's not my $.
Stevens was on with Grande before their broadcast and was asked specifically about Guerschon. To your point, Brad noted that young players with Yabu's potential are extremely rare in that he can defend down low as well as at the arc - he essentially referred to him as a player who fits the modern game very well.
Ainge may have picked up the option with an eye toward a bigger move but if Brad is to be taken at face value, they really like Yabusele's upside.
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You shifted the goal posts. I didn’t argue picking up the option was bad. He seems tradeable.
It’s exactly because the Celtics see him every day in practice and don’t play him over anybody that I think it’s fair to assume he hasn’t had a big leap in development yet, which was the original point.
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To some extent, yes, but this isn't the 2013-14 team, or even the 2015-16 team. And I think any NBA role player is going to need more than 235 minutes over 90 games to find their niche.
Theis is actually a good NBA role player. Williams has 12 minutes, at least 7 of which were pure garbage time. This Celtic team is deep.
I read somewhere that defending the arc has been a trademark of the Brad Stevens Celtics, and even the Doc Rivers Celtics were good at it.