Celtics 16/17 Roster and Assets

ifmanis5

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Amir Johnson was brought in to provide rim protection, good defense and rebounding. A year later the Celtics need a big who can provide rim protection, good defense and rebounding. Feels like he's aged ten years since he's been here. No lift, terrible hands and he makes $12 million this year. 13 minutes a night of invisible basketball is not what you're looking for in a starter.
 

oumbi

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Update and more highlight video of Ante Zizac. Would love to see him do something else other than dunking and layups, though it's clear he has good feet. From that website is this longer video of a game he played against former Huskie Shawn James. Zizac still has a way to go but he's young.

Ha! Ha, I say! You folks want videos of our long-distance Celtic youth? Here you go for Yabusele. The final video in the list has him making a very, very impressive block. The kid can play offense it seems. Whether he is any good on defense I cannot judge.

Enjoy.

Guerschon Yaubsele
24 pts, 12 rebs against the Rockets in the preaseason

Vs Zhejiang Chouzou (29 pts, 11 rbs)

Vs Jiangsu Tongxi (21 pts, 12 rbs)


Vs Jiangsu Nangang (8 pts, 14 rbs, 3 ast)

Vs Guangzhou (7 pts, 8 rbs, 2 ast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiD-9nc1Wg

Vs Guangdong (15 pts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFpqMCyZ7w

Vs Shen Zhen (14 pts, 7 rbs, 2 blks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLQaRULi5N0

Vs Jilin (17 pts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chh-vo-TGZg

Vs Liaoning (15 pts, 8 rebs, 3 ast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_cC-hvufps

Vs Shanxi (11 pts, 6 rbs, 4 ast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXwzvoN8XF0

Vs Fujian (25 pts, 6 rbs, 4 ast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZy-Ls3APr8

Vs Sichuan (18 pts, 13 rbs, 3 ast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkWEY5EgWW8

Vs Xinjiang (26 pts, 14 rbs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec6O4qxQH_4&t=36s

Vs Qingdao (20 pts, 5 rbs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9tdlxCF0QQ

Vs Shandong (18 pts, 6 rbs, 3 ast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ_Z97y4lz4
 

ifmanis5

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I remember last year or 2 years ago when Boogie melted down on the refs against the Celtics and Gorman asked Tommy 'what would you do with a guy like Cousins?' After a pause Tommy joked 'just be glad he's not your problem.'
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Man, this team would be pretty formidable with Boogie on their side assuming they can keep one of Bradley or Crowder. I know he is a risk but with the ages of the C's "core" and how they might match up with Cleveland, its one I think I would take if the price was right. Boogie has to be gone from Sacramento by the deadline...but we have been saying that for years so...
 

HomeRunBaker

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Man, this team would be pretty formidable with Boogie on their side assuming they can keep one of Bradley or Crowder. I know he is a risk but with the ages of the C's "core" and how they might match up with Cleveland, its one I think I would take if the price was right. Boogie has to be gone from Sacramento by the deadline...but we have been saying that for years so...
Why does he have to be? I've said for years that he isn't going anywhere as he is their franchise player and the one guy who fans show up to see play. If you trade Boogie you're a) Not getting anywhere near what you would like in return and b) Risk playing in an empty arena while being blown out on a nightly basis.

People talk about Boogie not making an impact in the W/L column but each year the differential with him on and off the court is enormous. This year it's as wide as ever. He is the one guy on the Kings who they CAN'T trade imo and never really could.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
How much money will Boogie leave on the tablet if he doesn't sign a max deal with the Kings when he is up for free agency? With the new CBA it will be upwards of 50 million plus I would think.

What would the best move be by the Kings? Clean house and build with Boogie. Vlade should be the first to go. Maybe we need a Kings thread like we do the Sixers, no not really, no one likes the Kings...

My goodness, looking at the roster and contracts, they have drafted so poorly.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/sacramento_kings/

Trade every piece possible beside Boogie and the recent draft picks for expiring and draft picks and bottom out. Sell Boogie on the plan and see, not sure if that is possibly though.

Collison, McLemore, Casspi, Barnes, Afflalo, Koufus, how did they get themselves in this situation again? yuck.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Why does he have to be? I've said for years that he isn't going anywhere as he is their franchise player and the one guy who fans show up to see play. If you trade Boogie you're a) Not getting anywhere near what you would like in return and b) Risk playing in an empty arena while being blown out on a nightly basis.

People talk about Boogie not making an impact in the W/L column but each year the differential with him on and off the court is enormous. This year it's as wide as ever. He is the one guy on the Kings who they CAN'T trade imo and never really could.
He is openly acting out against reporters and based on his frustration I would have to guess he will bolt Sacramento at the first chance he gets, even if it means he leaves money on the table.

As sox311 notes, the guy has played for five different coaches and the NBA equivalent of bench filler for his entire career in the aptly named Sleep Train Arena. I get your point about the team having nothing left but even they have to see the writing on the wall. The guy is a huge flight risk and if he bolts via free agency they get nothing in return for him. There are rumors out there that a trade can get done and Boston is a great fit for a variety of reasons.

I am not saying it will happen because, as you note, even a surly Boogie holds value for the Kings. However he is probably at his peak value as a team gets at least a year and a half of him before he is a UFA at the end of next season.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He is openly acting out against reporters and based on his frustration I would have to guess he will bolt Sacramento at the first chance he gets, even if it means he leaves money on the table.

As sox311 notes, the guy has played for five different coaches and the NBA equivalent of bench filler for his entire career in the aptly named Sleep Train Arena. I get your point about the team having nothing left but even they have to see the writing on the wall. The guy is a huge flight risk and if he bolts via free agency they get nothing in return for him. There are rumors out there that a trade can get done and Boston is a great fit for a variety of reasons.

I am not saying it will happen because, as you note, even a surly Boogie holds value for the Kings. However he is probably at his peak value as a team gets at least a year and a half of him before he is a UFA at the end of next season.
To me, Boogie is a superstar version of Nerlens Noel with his contract situation. Nobody is going to give up close to equal value for the right to have to pay a guy a shit ton of money when you aren't sold on being committed to the player. Without a GM being sold on Cousins (or Noel) longterm there isn't going to be a trade made unless they sell for 25 cents on the dollar.
 

Ed Hillel

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Is he worth both Brooklyn picks?
Hell no, not with this class of players coming out next season. The CBA is rewarding teams who draft well long-term, so I think that should be the goal for Ainge. Max IT and try to get 3 guys, in Brown and the next two picks, they can build around for the next decade. Boogie is a crazy person and won't put them over the top for the next few seasons.

Not to say I wouldn't enjoy watching this team with Boogie, but I think it would be a serious mistake to give up anything better than the 2018 Brooklyn pick. This year's class is way too good.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Hell no, not with this class of players coming out next season. The CBA is rewarding teams who draft well long-term, so I think that should be the goal for Ainge. Max IT and try to get 3 guys, in Brown and the next two picks, they can build around for the next decade. Boogie is a crazy person and won't put them over the top for the next few seasons.

Not to say I wouldn't enjoy watching this team with Boogie, but I think it would be a serious mistake to give up anything better than the 2018 Brooklyn pick. This year's class is way too good.
I would beg to differ and I know this draft is strong. The problem is, the C's roster is primed to win sooner rather than later and regardless of whom they get in the draft, that player won't be ready to truly contribute for two to three seasons.
 

ishmael

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I would beg to differ and I know this draft is strong. The problem is, the C's roster is primed to win sooner rather than later and regardless of whom they get in the draft, that player won't be ready to truly contribute for two to three seasons.
The issue is that Boogie doesn't really put this team over the top. It would be tough to play him big minutes with Horford (not enough perimeter D) and the backcourt is still undersized defensively.

I'd rather play out this season, see if they can get a round deeper in the playoffs and take a shot at the 2 or 3 franchise guys that will be available in the draft. Bring those guys along (as well as Marcus + Jaylen) on 50+ win teams a la Kawhi in San Antonio.

Danny will still have long term assets (2018 Nets pick + 2019 protected picks from Memphis + LAC) and quality role players on below market deals (AB, Crowder) if he needs to rebalance the roster in the offseason.

I love Boogie as a player, but I just don't see there being a great fit right now between the Celtics roster and what SAC would want to move on from him...
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The issue is that Boogie doesn't really put this team over the top. It would be tough to play him big minutes with Horford (not enough perimeter D) and the backcourt is still undersized defensively.

I'd rather play out this season, see if they can get a round deeper in the playoffs and take a shot at the 2 or 3 franchise guys that will be available in the draft. Bring those guys along (as well as Marcus + Jaylen) on 50+ win teams a la Kawhi in San Antonio.

Danny will still have long term assets (2018 Nets pick + 2019 protected picks from Memphis + LAC) and quality role players on below market deals (AB, Crowder) if he needs to rebalance the roster in the offseason.

I love Boogie as a player, but I just don't see there being a great fit right now between the Celtics roster and what SAC would want to move on from him...
You make a fair point about the spacing with both Boogie and Cousins but they are both fast enough to flash out on guys and get back to the paint. Cousins is your primary rim protector and Horford can defend at the perimeter.

As for their backcourt, yes they are undersized but that isn't an argument against acquiring Cousins. Its more an argument for adding not just him but a bigger wing defender as well which is possible given the number of assets that Ainge controls. They aren't getting George as Indiana has said he isn't available with the new CBA. But Butler might be...

Either way, I am with latte-sipping-during-a-playoff-baseball-game Sprtsguy33 in being on the Boogie to Boston bandwagon. If the package is picks plus a few rotation players (basically Boston's entire roster save IT4 and Horford), you do it and do it quickly.
 
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Ed Hillel

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I would beg to differ and I know this draft is strong. The problem is, the C's roster is primed to win sooner rather than later and regardless of whom they get in the draft, that player won't be ready to truly contribute for two to three seasons.
I would disagree, because while I think the Celtics are primed to be a top 5-10 team now, they has even higher upside 3-4+ years down the road with the Brooklyn picks, LBJ aging, and hopefully that Golden State roster dropping off at least a bit. IT should still be around and kicking and playing at a high level in 2020, as well. I would be against trading both picks for Boogie even if he came with no risk. Factor in the (significant) risk, and I just can't get on board right now. As I said before, I would enjoy the ride if it happened, but if the price is both Brooklyn picks I'd be pretty bummed and believe they gave up championship equity in the long run.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I'm generally patient so take with a grain of salt but I'm very inclined to wait the situation out a bit. Superstar trades are usually wildly unbalanced and don't contain more than one lotto pick (and often none given that a team's own picks are immediately devalued by acquiring a star). Make this year's pick, sign a FA, then if a deal comes along use the 2018 pick + filler when Brooklyn flounders even more after moving Lopez.
 

Montana Fan

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I'm with you Jed. I'd like to see them sign Hayward and keep the picks. Adding Hayward a year after adding Horford would be a great infusion of talent that only costs money. You have kept the 2 Brooklyn picks, have Zizic and Yabu coming over to compete next year and have a bunch of assets to go get a shot blocking, rebounding big man.

A few years ago HRB accurately predicted that this thing was being built for a run 3-4 years down the road. Following the, don't give up assets for a guy who seems to be a jackass, path is the way to long term success. A team with Hayward, Horford, IT, Smart, Brown, a few top 5 draft picks and high quality filler, with Stevens coaching, ooolaalaa... I could handle a decade of watching this play out.
 

the moops

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This team is not primed to win anytime real soon, IMO. Realistically, they are looking at competing at the tail end of the Horford deal. A likely scenario is 2017 top 3 pick, Brown, max free agent (Hayward?), and Horford are the core of the next contender.

I think the Boogie talk is sort of ridiculous. Neither he nor Horford can play the 4 defensively. Add that to the fact that he is fucking nuts, and the Kings would have to get back a substantial package, and well...
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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While I understand that Hayward may have affinity for Stevens, its a stretch to think he would take a discount to play for him. Especially with a good role for him on a strong team (as GMB points out) with the Jazz.
 

nighthob

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Is Boston such a better situation than Utah that Hayward would leave money on the table to come to Boston? Is it a better situation at all? Utah is really good.
The new six year deals don't kick in until the summer of 2018, I believe. This summer is going to be governed by the current rules, so he's not actually leaving that much on the table to come to Boston, and with an opt out Boston should be able to give him his six year deal a couple of years down the line (it might require the working out of a sign & trade, but I don't see that as a major hurdle if Hayward wants to play for his old coach again).
 

moly99

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The problem is, the C's roster is primed to win sooner rather than later and regardless of whom they get in the draft, that player won't be ready to truly contribute for two to three seasons.
I understand that people are impatient. The Celtics are a frustrating team. But other than Al Horford and Amir's Johnson's contract, our key players are still in their prime or are young guys.

"Win now" is the wrong move 80% of the time, and there is no reason to believe the Celtics, with the young players and incoming draft picks they have, are better suited to trade in all their chips than waiting.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I understand that people are impatient. The Celtics are a frustrating team. But other than Al Horford and Amir's Johnson's contract, our key players are still in their prime or are young guys.

"Win now" is the wrong move 80% of the time, and there is no reason to believe the Celtics, with the young players and incoming draft picks they have, are better suited to trade in all their chips than waiting.
My view isn't so much based on impatience as much as it is on the idea that you take actual talent over potential when you have the chance. Sure, the C's could draft well and be loaded three to five years down the line. That said, talent assessment is hit or miss and even if you get it right, it typically takes two to three years or longer for players to develop, especially for kids who are 19 years old. That is a long time for the the NBA and even with talent its hard to compete (see the T-Wolves for example).

Anyhow, we will see. Based on Ainge's body of work, I suspect that he will continue to kick the tires on Cousins and/or Butler. If they can be had for the right prices, he won't hesitate to pull the trigger even with the talent coming out in the next draft.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I understand that people are impatient. The Celtics are a frustrating team. But other than Al Horford and Amir's Johnson's contract, our key players are still in their prime or are young guys.

"Win now" is the wrong move 80% of the time, and there is no reason to believe the Celtics, with the young players and incoming draft picks they have, are better suited to trade in all their chips than waiting.
This is where I'm at. We have a 50-win team without a single aging player in the rotation aside from Amir. Horford figures to age very well as he doesn't rely on athleticism.....history shows that his old school style allows bigs to barely drop off lost their mid-30's.

We are a second tier contender as is.....

Before Jaylen matures
Before our high Brooklyn pick this summer
Before next summers (high) Brooklyn pick
Before the potentially high Memphis pick down the road.

We are set up to succeed for the next 10-15 years by being patient now.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
And the CBA just blew up any opportunity to win now anyway.
Yes. In the modern NBA a situation like this is unprecedented, correct?

A quality second tier team with all the intangibles, read that as "not Atlanta", who has, most likely, theee straight high draft picks to improve.

Think of the 2015 Hawks had they the chance to add Porzingas, Jaylen Brown, and then possibly a Markel Fultz in the next three years, but they had a solid foundation and fan base.
 

Devizier

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Cupboard looks pretty bare for next offseason's free agency. I bet when the extensions are hashed out, it'll be pretty bare in 2018, too.

The Celtics are going to have to get it done in the draft from here on out. Despite the outcome of the Durant sweepstakes, it was a wise idea to get Horford locked down last summer.
 

Eddie Jurak

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At some point, the Celtics are going to need to decide who their two primary guards are going to be. There's room for only 2 of Thomas, Smart, and Bradley... in part because lineups with all three of them on the floor are generally ineffective (net -6.8 points/100 possessions in 262 minutes), particularly on defense.

At the same time, I think that having Smart log so much time at forward (and so little at the point) has slowed his offensive development, because PG is really the only position where he has flashed the potential to be a plus offensively. His shooting continues to be awful (as is his willingness to brick away from deep in any situation), but court vision, passing, and the ability to create offense (for himself or teammates) by posting up guards are all areas where the potential is there but the skills are raw and underdeveloped.

Bradley is the best outside shooter on a team that isn't loaded with shooting and also the best one-on-one defender of smaller guards.

Thomas is Thomas - one of the league's best offensive players, either on or off the ball, but always limited defensively by his lack of size. He'll also command the biggest bucks when extension time rolls around.

The Celtics also have some decent options at guard behind this group: Rozier looks like he can at least be a good backup guard, Jaylen Brown looks like he will be able to play minutes there, and even Demetrius Jackson looks like a good developmental project.

But some of their recent success has come from limiting IT/Bradley/Smart minutes. Each of them is an NBA starting caliber player but as a unit they are a mess. Whatever the next step forward for this franchise is, it probably involves moving one of these 3 guards.

I think Bradley is the guy I would move, much as I like him as a player.
 

chilidawg

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Seems like Brad might be agreeing with you regarding the 3 guard line up, as Rozier got no minutes against the Knicks and only 8 against the Thunder. Smart, Thomas and Bradley only combined for 93 minutes against the Knicks, meaning no 3 guard lineup at all.

I'm in favor of keeping all three unless one can be part of a deal for a significant upgrade. Pretty easy to get 30 minutes a game for all three, keeping everybody fresh. Smart can play on the ball when paired with Bradley, and even with Thomas he can do some of the non crunch time handling and let Thomas play off the ball, which I think he's really effective at.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Seems like Brad might be agreeing with you regarding the 3 guard line up, as Rozier got no minutes against the Knicks and only 8 against the Thunder. Smart, Thomas and Bradley only combined for 93 minutes against the Knicks, meaning no 3 guard lineup at all.

I'm in favor of keeping all three unless one can be part of a deal for a significant upgrade. Pretty easy to get 30 minutes a game for all three, keeping everybody fresh. Smart can play on the ball when paired with Bradley, and even with Thomas he can do some of the non crunch time handling and let Thomas play off the ball, which I think he's really effective at.
I wouldn't deal one of them just to get them off the team, but I think there is a point of diminishing returns when at least one of your core players is always off the floor.
 

mcpickl

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Why is that? I think people are overestimating how many players are even eligible for that new 35% of the cap contract. Don't you have to make a bunch of all-NBA teams to be eligible?
It will be very limited, but it's mostly the guys you'd be gunning to acquire in FA.

From Larry Coon:

* Named MVP in any of the previous three seasons.
* Named (1st, 2nd or 3rd) team All-NBA in the previous season, or two of the previous three seasons.
* Named DPOY in the previous season, or two of the previous three seasons.

You also have to have been with the same team since the expiration of your rookie contract to be eligible.

If I did it right, the players that would be eligible if the rule was currently in effect would be:

Kawhi Leonard
Deandre Jordan
Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Draymond Green
Demarcus Cousins
Damian Lillard
Paul George
Andre Drummond
Klay Thompson
James Harden
Blake Griffin
 

mcpickl

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I wouldn't deal one of them just to get them off the team, but I think there is a point of diminishing returns when at least one of your core players is always off the floor.
I don't think you have to move one of the three guards, but I do think IT is moved by this summer. He's eligible to renegotiate and extend this summer, will be looking to at least triple his salary, and you'd have to be under the cap by 10+ million to do it.

I don't see Danny Ainge making that commitment. I'd be looking at the star players on the Eastern Conference playoff fringe as targets. From the group of John Wall/Paul George/Jimmy Butler or to a lesser extent, Paul Millsap.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seems like Brad might be agreeing with you regarding the 3 guard line up, as Rozier got no minutes against the Knicks and only 8 against the Thunder. Smart, Thomas and Bradley only combined for 93 minutes against the Knicks, meaning no 3 guard lineup at all.
Think you mean 93 seconds, not 93 minutes. They were +5 in that time.

I think Brad was doing his best to try to develop Rozier but he has regressed offensively in recent weeks and by eye was a defensive liability. That and the fact that the IT/AB/Smart lineup hasn't seemed to work (-25 in 275 minutes), that leaves more minutes for Smart at the point, which I think is a net positive, and perhaps Gerald Green, could be a net positive if he shoots like he did against the NYK.
 

Swedgin

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I don't think you have to move one of the three guards, but I do think IT is moved by this summer. He's eligible to renegotiate and extend this summer, will be looking to at least triple his salary, and you'd have to be under the cap by 10+ million to do it.

I don't see Danny Ainge making that commitment. I'd be looking at the star players on the Eastern Conference playoff fringe as targets. From the group of John Wall/Paul George/Jimmy Butler or to a lesser extent, Paul Millsap.
IT will present a real challenge for the Celts. His skillset and size suggest he will decline. So odds are that regardless of where he signs, the last year or two of that contract is going to be a fairly significant overpay. So on the one hand, you could trade him on the principle that you don't want to be the one to sign him to that (eventually) crappy deal. On the other, what your getting back for him in a trade? The very thing that makes you want to move him (future cost) diminishes the return. And in the short/near term removing him from the Celtics dramatically lowers the team's ceiling. Who else on the team can consistently create their own shot? Its a challenge lots of good but not great teams face: keep a guy on what will eventually be a bad deal or let him walk without a viable replacement and take a big step back. (see Griz w/ Conley and Raps w/ Derozan)

As to the targets, you would have to pry Paul George from Larry's cold dead hands. Washington has made Wall the face of that franchise. With Beal healthy and Porter looking like a capable third banana and, perhaps most importantly, where Grunfeld is in his life-cycle as a GM, I would be surprised if the Wizards move him. If their bench were not such a dumpster fire they would be feisty. I want no part of Millsap on a new contract. We have already seen how far a team led by him and Howard can go. And now he is two years older (and four years older than IT). Butler is intriguing and no one has any clue what the Bulls long term plan is.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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According to Austin Ainge, the C's expect to bring both Yabusele and Zizic over for next season.

Zizic has been loaned to David Blatt's Turkish league team for the rest of this season. They are also competing in the EuroLeague, so a nice boost in competition while getting some high-level coaching. I believe Blatt has been a fan of Zizic for quite some time.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Rozier's decreased minutes are to force smaller players to guard Smart and then let him post them up. According to synergy sports (from Kevin O'Connor), C's averaging 1.44 points per Smart post-up, which sounds like it leads the NBA.

 

CreedBratton

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IT will present a real challenge for the Celts. His skillset and size suggest he will decline. So odds are that regardless of where he signs, the last year or two of that contract is going to be a fairly significant overpay. So on the one hand, you could trade him on the principle that you don't want to be the one to sign him to that (eventually) crappy deal. On the other, what your getting back for him in a trade? The very thing that makes you want to move him (future cost) diminishes the return. And in the short/near term removing him from the Celtics dramatically lowers the team's ceiling. Who else on the team can consistently create their own shot? Its a challenge lots of good but not great teams face: keep a guy on what will eventually be a bad deal or let him walk without a viable replacement and take a big step back. (see Griz w/ Conley and Raps w/ Derozan)

As to the targets, you would have to pry Paul George from Larry's cold dead hands. Washington has made Wall the face of that franchise. With Beal healthy and Porter looking like a capable third banana and, perhaps most importantly, where Grunfeld is in his life-cycle as a GM, I would be surprised if the Wizards move him. If their bench were not such a dumpster fire they would be feisty. I want no part of Millsap on a new contract. We have already seen how far a team led by him and Howard can go. And now he is two years older (and four years older than IT). Butler is intriguing and no one has any clue what the Bulls long term plan is.
Are superstars the least gettable now than they have ever been?? Seems like every year stars demanded a trade ala melo, Howard etc. But the PG13 and walls don't seem possible
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
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As to the targets, you would have to pry Paul George from Larry's cold dead hands. Washington has made Wall the face of that franchise. With Beal healthy and Porter looking like a capable third banana and, perhaps most importantly, where Grunfeld is in his life-cycle as a GM, I would be surprised if the Wizards move him. If their bench were not such a dumpster fire they would be feisty. I want no part of Millsap on a new contract. We have already seen how far a team led by him and Howard can go. And now he is two years older (and four years older than IT). Butler is intriguing and no one has any clue what the Bulls long term plan is.
I agree Wall is unlikely to move, but I wouldn't rule it out. If Washington sinks in the standings the next month or so, I could see Wall asking out.

After paying Beal that outrageous contract, he now makes 7 million more per year than Wall. Wall barely makes more than Ian Mahinmi. I'd imagine that doesn't sit well with Wall, like Marbury/KG years ago.

Wall is eligible for a renegotiate and extend this summer. He could renegotiate up to a starting salary just over 30M(assuming cap of 102M) as a 7 year veteran. Problem is, you need to have the cap space to do it. Washington, with all their bloated contracts, won't have the space. They'd need to let Otto Porter walk for nothing, then still lop off another 15M or so. Maybe they could trade Gortat to a team under the cap, but could take no salary back. So best case scenario for Washington is they could keep Wall, but have to give away two of their starters to make it happen with no cap space to replace them. So they'd be a much worse team than the fighting for a bottom seed outfit they are right now.

I could see Wall being unhappy whether Washington offers to do that to renegotiate with him or not.
 

sox311

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Jan 30, 2004
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That's what she said.
The new six year deals don't kick in until the summer of 2018, I believe. This summer is going to be governed by the current rules, so he's not actually leaving that much on the table to come to Boston, and with an opt out Boston should be able to give him his six year deal a couple of years down the line (it might require the working out of a sign & trade, but I don't see that as a major hurdle if Hayward wants to play for his old coach again).

Is this still true? Or did they amend the agreement to begin now?
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
12,704
I agree Wall is unlikely to move, but I wouldn't rule it out. If Washington sinks in the standings the next month or so, I could see Wall asking out.

After paying Beal that outrageous contract, he now makes 7 million more per year than Wall. Wall barely makes more than Ian Mahinmi. I'd imagine that doesn't sit well with Wall, like Marbury/KG years ago.

Wall is eligible for a renegotiate and extend this summer. He could renegotiate up to a starting salary just over 30M(assuming cap of 102M) as a 7 year veteran. Problem is, you need to have the cap space to do it. Washington, with all their bloated contracts, won't have the space. They'd need to let Otto Porter walk for nothing, then still lop off another 15M or so. Maybe they could trade Gortat to a team under the cap, but could take no salary back. So best case scenario for Washington is they could keep Wall, but have to give away two of their starters to make it happen with no cap space to replace them. So they'd be a much worse team than the fighting for a bottom seed outfit they are right now.

I could see Wall being unhappy whether Washington offers to do that to renegotiate with him or not.
I would say that Wall's a possibility if Boston lands the first pick and has Markelle Fultz to offer to the Wizards. Otherwise I expect them to just keep him and sign him to the new supermax when he's a free agent.
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
4,549
I would say that Wall's a possibility if Boston lands the first pick and has Markelle Fultz to offer to the Wizards. Otherwise I expect them to just keep him and sign him to the new supermax when he's a free agent.
That's probably their plan, we'll see if Wall is willing to go another full season being underpaid, then hope to make all-NBA next season to be eligible for a supermax. Would be his first all-NBA appearance. Otherwise, he'd have to go two more seasons being underpaid before he gets his money.

Again, I'd say it's still unlikely Wall gets moved, just don't think it's a lock he won't be.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
12,704
Oh I agree with that. That contract of his makes him a real valuable trade asset. But I the Wiz will obviously be looking for a huge haul. Philly could probably have him, but thankfully they're not likely to pay the toll charge. Boston would, but they'd need Fultz as a centerpiece.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I would say that Wall's a possibility if Boston lands the first pick and has Markelle Fultz to offer to the Wizards. Otherwise I expect them to just keep him and sign him to the new supermax when he's a free agent.

Would you do that deal as the Cs? I'm starting to move into the keep the kids and hope we get some good ones.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
12,704
Would you do that deal as the Cs? I'm starting to move into the keep the kids and hope we get some good ones.
I don't know, I go back and forth on Wall. Six months ago the answer would have been no, but his play has taken a leap forward this year, so now I'm back to wondering if a coach like Stevens could build a team around Wall/Hayward/Horford. Boston would still have Jaylen Brown and the 2018 #1 to supplement what they had (I would expect that the deal would be Fultz/Smart/whatever for Wall, the last part being whatever they got for Lil' Zeke).