This NFL season, even more than others, seems to be a war of attrition. Let it be noted that the Patriots have been without Edelman (arguably their most clutch receiver), Hightower (their best linebacker and arguably best defensive player) and Cannon (all-pro offensive tackle playing well before he got hurt). And, in the second half of a comeback win against a legitimately tough opponent, without the proverbial queen on the chessboard. With all the usual caveats, I think this will be the first big one where we get to enjoy a laugher and not another heart attack bowl. Just my sense of things...
Mike, I’d rather be 4-0 in Super Bowls than 5-2! Mike when you think about it Brady should be 3-4 at best!!!!! Montana was a winner Mike!
If not for a BB meltdown to give away home field advantage during the regular season in 2015 (let's defer in overtime, what?), and having to go to Denver, where we never play well, I'm 100% convinced we'd be playing for our fourth straight SB win in two weeks.
That said, I'll still take it.
That said, I'll still take it.
You landed! Good thing you missed the gamethread. We had the Pats season done at least a dozen times during the first three and a half quarters.
I think there's an air of resigned acceptance regarding the Patrios This one cracked me up.
Quincy EnunwaVerified account @QuincyEnunwa
Patriots gonna Patriot.
3:05 PM - 21 Jan 2018
Someone please post a .gif of Belichick disgustedly handing the Lamar Hunt trophy to Jonathan Kraft. He has no use for runner up trophies.
I love how the Patriots always take care of the little things:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/01/21/patriots-fan-wheelchair-invited-onto-field/
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/01/21/patriots-fan-wheelchair-invited-onto-field/
I don't know the year that this stat goes back to (probably 2001)...
Playoff teams not named the Patriots are 3-70 when trailing by 10+ points in the 4th quarter. The Patriots are now 4-3 in such games.
Playoff teams not named the Patriots are 3-70 when trailing by 10+ points in the 4th quarter. The Patriots are now 4-3 in such games.
And they were extremely close to beating Denver in January of 2016. 4-3 is absurd, 5-2 would be laughable.
Looks like he just lost a duel.
Is that BB in the white pants?
(but more seriously...that's an amazing moment . Wish it were a better pic)
From today's "First Things First" show.
The last 3 playoff wins when they trailed by 10+ in the 4th quarter. NE outscored their opponents 53-3.
The last 3 playoff wins when they trailed by 10+ in the 4th quarter. NE outscored their opponents 53-3.
To beat the Patriots in the playoffs, you really need to turn them over a lot. Here's their playoff record (TB/BB era) when they have the following turnover differential:
-4: 0-1
-3: 0-1
-2: 1-1
-1: 6-3
0: 4-3
+1: 5-0
+2: 4-0
+3: 4-0
+4: 3-0
So teams with a turnover margin of +3 or more against the Patriots are 2-0 against NE. Teams that are +1 or +2 are just 4-7 against the Patriots. Teams with zero TO margin are 3-4 against NE. And teams that have a negative turnover margin are an astounding 0-16.
It's incredible to me that the Patriots are 7-6 in the playoffs when they have a negative turnover margin. And not just a tiny sample size either.
For comparison's sake, here's how that great SF dynasty (1981-1998) did:
-4: 0-4
-3: 1-0
-2: 0-2
-1: 2-5
0: 3-0
+1: 5-0
+2: 2-0
+3: 6-0
+4: 3-0
So teams with a turnover margin of +3 or better against SF went 4-1. Teams that were +1 or +2 went 7-2. Teams who were either even or who lost the turnover battle went 0-19 against them.
But just focusing on SF or NE losing the TO battle... SF went 3-11 when they lost the TO battle; NE has gone 7-6 in that situation.
-4: 0-1
-3: 0-1
-2: 1-1
-1: 6-3
0: 4-3
+1: 5-0
+2: 4-0
+3: 4-0
+4: 3-0
So teams with a turnover margin of +3 or more against the Patriots are 2-0 against NE. Teams that are +1 or +2 are just 4-7 against the Patriots. Teams with zero TO margin are 3-4 against NE. And teams that have a negative turnover margin are an astounding 0-16.
It's incredible to me that the Patriots are 7-6 in the playoffs when they have a negative turnover margin. And not just a tiny sample size either.
For comparison's sake, here's how that great SF dynasty (1981-1998) did:
-4: 0-4
-3: 1-0
-2: 0-2
-1: 2-5
0: 3-0
+1: 5-0
+2: 2-0
+3: 6-0
+4: 3-0
So teams with a turnover margin of +3 or better against SF went 4-1. Teams that were +1 or +2 went 7-2. Teams who were either even or who lost the turnover battle went 0-19 against them.
But just focusing on SF or NE losing the TO battle... SF went 3-11 when they lost the TO battle; NE has gone 7-6 in that situation.
Nice column by he who must not be mentioned.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2018/01/borges_patriots_send_yet_another_opponent_home_frustrated_and
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2018/01/borges_patriots_send_yet_another_opponent_home_frustrated_and
It's been discussed before but in the game thread Shaemonu suggested that Sunday's win is maybe the 8th most important win in franchise history. Since I have two weeks to kill that got me thinking and here is my list:
1 2001 Superbowl - Franchise first
2 2014 Superbowl - Breaks the Giants curse
3 2016 Superbowl - Biggest comeback ever
4 2004 Superbowl - Solidifies the dynasty
5 2003 Superbowl - The "forgotten" superbowl
6 1985 AFC championship - Most important win in franchise history prior to the Kraft ownership.
7 2001 AFC Championship - #1 isn't possible without this win.
8 2007 Week 17 -This year hurts to think about but perfect regular season is an amazing accomplishment.
9 1996 AFC Championship Proving we're actually relevant
10 2018 AFC Championship "Just another" playoff comeback
11 2012 AFC Championship Throwing this in here because it was a good game
Only one game prior to this ownership makes my list. Kraft has had an unbelievable run of success.
1 2001 Superbowl - Franchise first
2 2014 Superbowl - Breaks the Giants curse
3 2016 Superbowl - Biggest comeback ever
4 2004 Superbowl - Solidifies the dynasty
5 2003 Superbowl - The "forgotten" superbowl
6 1985 AFC championship - Most important win in franchise history prior to the Kraft ownership.
7 2001 AFC Championship - #1 isn't possible without this win.
8 2007 Week 17 -This year hurts to think about but perfect regular season is an amazing accomplishment.
9 1996 AFC Championship Proving we're actually relevant
10 2018 AFC Championship "Just another" playoff comeback
11 2012 AFC Championship Throwing this in here because it was a good game
Only one game prior to this ownership makes my list. Kraft has had an unbelievable run of success.
I quibble with 1985 being ahead of 2001 AFC Championship. Because it led to a SB. And the 2015 division game against the Ravens should be in there ahead of the 2012 AFC Championship, because that comeback also led to a SB win.
But, otherwise, a solid list.
But, otherwise, a solid list.
I'd put the 2003 AFCCG vs Indy, and the 2004 Divisional vs Indy and AFCCG vs PIT, pretty high on the list, maybe just outside the top 8.
edit: and if we're going to include divisional games, I think there are two obvious ones that would lead that subcategory, even ahead of the Peyton face-crush in 2004.
edit: and if we're going to include divisional games, I think there are two obvious ones that would lead that subcategory, even ahead of the Peyton face-crush in 2004.
I put the 1985 AFC Championship #4 after your top 3 though I'd reverse 2 and 3. I had it #2 on my personal list before the last 2 SBs happened. And they only surpass it due to the incredible nature of those victories.
Yeah I think the Ravens divisional game from 2015 has to be on there. Came back from 14 points back twice, at a time in which we weren't sure if the Pats were ever going to win the fourth ring. I'd rank that one more important than yesterday because even with a loss yesterday they still have 2 recent Lombardis and GOAT status solidified. That wasn't the case in 2014.
2001 - Knocked off an emerging dynasty (StL)
2003 - Beat a rising NFC South power (Car)
2004 - Beat Philly
- - -
2014 - Knocked off an emerging dynasty (Sea)
2016 - Beat a rising NFC South power (Atl)
2017 - Square off against Philly
2003 - Beat a rising NFC South power (Car)
2004 - Beat Philly
- - -
2014 - Knocked off an emerging dynasty (Sea)
2016 - Beat a rising NFC South power (Atl)
2017 - Square off against Philly
2001 - played in stadium they had previously lost (multiple) Super Bowls (New Orleans)
2003 - played in Houston
2004 - played in place no one wanted to go in the winter (or ever) (Jacksonville); both coordinators left
2014 - played in stadium they had previously lost Super Bowl (Arizona)
2016 - played in Houston
2017 - played in place no one wants to go in the winter (Minneapolis); both coordinators leaving?
The locale comparison between 2004 and 2017 is a bit of a stretch, but still.
No. They certainly wouldn't pay him anything close to what he wants and I can't imagine his sideline antics would go over very well with Belichick. He's all distraction, all the time.
Bill brought in Chad Johnson and Randy Moss, who were both thought of as prima donna, "me first", wide receivers. I think money would be the only obstacle here.
I don't get the Romo hate. The guy is fun, has insights no one else in a booth can currently offer (or is willing to) and he's downright a breath of fresh air as compared to Simms or the other stuffed suits that cover the national games. Who would people prefer?
Someone who does not get excited when our opponents are making big plays, and someone who displays his passion for football only when the Patriots are kicking ass. That’s the sad answer.
Separately, and happily, these tidbits from the forthcoming “Two Bills” 30 for 30 are fascinating:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/22/bill-belichick-bill-parcells-relationship-gets-the-30-for-30-treatment/
Looks like the typical locker room scene after any other victory. Ho hum, just another trip to the super bowl.
Perhaps you forget the general perception of Randy Moss, or Corey Dillon before they became Patriots.
If the talent, intelligence, and work ethic are there - Belichick will take a shot on you. Not saying OBJ is going to be a Patriot, mostly for contract reasons. But if he were a FA and made himself available for a reasonable contract - I see no reason Belichick would turn him down.
I highly recommend watching the locker room celebration if only to see how fucking thankful Brandin Cooks is to be on the team. A few aren't on the bandwagon after his first season due to some pretty lofty expectations, but in reality he came in and had one of the best first seasons of any traded for/drafted wide receivers in this run (after Moss / Welker) and put up, basically, his standard season. Hell, it wasn't long ago that threads here were dedicated to pondering as to why players like Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, and others weren't as successful here.
Obviously the role Welker and Cooks play(ed) in the offense is just massively different and they're hard to compare, but I would consider his first campaign with Tom a resounding success.
Wes Welker: 122 rec, 1175 yards, 8TD
Brandin Cooks: 65 rec, 1082 yards, 7TD
Obviously the role Welker and Cooks play(ed) in the offense is just massively different and they're hard to compare, but I would consider his first campaign with Tom a resounding success.
Wes Welker: 122 rec, 1175 yards, 8TD
Brandin Cooks: 65 rec, 1082 yards, 7TD
Biggest knock on Cooks is he just won’t fight for balls in anyway. It’s just not his style. He also gets short arms more than he should which is the more egregious of the two.
Otherwise I loved his production.
Otherwise I loved his production.
I think this list (and the others) are all solid and defensible. I might quibble with a few games ( for instance - I think regular season wins are generally underappreciated - I would struggle to keep the intentional safety or McGinest goal line stand games off the list). But my larger point was how yesterday's game - which as great as it was still probably ranks somewhere closer to 10 than 1 on most peoples list, would be considered the first or second most dramatic win ever for many franchises. If you exclude "historic" wins from the equation (yes, the Bucs did win a Super Bowl - it was a shite game) the number goes even higher. My list, on quick reflection and only considering wins - Buffalo, San Diego, Arizona, Detroit, Atlanta, Jax, NYJ, Philly, NO, Tampa, Cleveland, maybe Tenn. - and I'm probably missing some obvious ones ( oh yeah - Houston). All these fan bases would right now be saying "our greatest win ever, or at least a close second". Here it's absolutely appreciated but context realistically demands that we have to consider whether it makes the top dozen or not.