That was then: Celebrating what was

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,059
Hingham, MA
They were a little unlucky from a Super Bowl won perspective, even with the all time luckbox that was 2001, until they won the last two coin flip Super Bowls. Now I think they’re close to expected value.
I agree with this, 5-2 feels right, even if we got there a weird way.
 

m0ckduck

Member
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Jul 20, 2005
1,714
I don't know if it's anything but one great run. Others may make a different and more persuasive case, but the years when I think the team was absolutely unequivocally good enough to win the Super Bowl were: 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006*, 2007*, 2010, 2011*, 2014, 2015*, 2016. That's ten (10) and I think this is a conservative list as I've left off 2012 and 2013 and of course they were in the AFCCG each of those years. The years with the asterisk, which are four of the five seasons on that list they didn't win the Super Bowl, were years they were a single play from either winning the SB or going to a SB they likely would have won.

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that in 2003, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2016 the Pats were the best team in the NFL.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I tend to put the 2005 team in the coulda-should-woulda category more than the 2013 team, maybe more than 2012 too. Yes: the 10-6 2005 Patriots, with their 9.6% (!) DVOA rating and Troy Brown at CB. A team with a decimated secondary, and yet.... people forget: four straight solid wins to close the season before a meaningless week 17 loss to Miami with Brady mostly resting... personnel not much changed from the 2004 juggernaut (no Ty Law; Rodney Harrison lost to season-ending injury; but otherwise much the same)... front 7 really bringing it during the stretch.... only to dissolve into a puddle of turnovers in Denver. Had they played a somewhat clean game at Mile High, I remain convinced they would have pulled that out (had a lead and possession right before the half before the fumbles started, had been moving the ball better than the Broncos up to that point). Next up would have been Pit, whom Brady had already established ownership over. Followed by Holmgren, Hasselback and the Seahawks in the SB.

The 2013 team made the AFCCG, yes, but that was one of the more convincing— and boring— playoff defeats of the BB era. Only time I remember a Brady-Belichick team looking like the generic other team in a sports movie.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,765
Pittsburgh, PA
The 2013 team made the AFCCG, yes, but that was one of the more convincing— and boring— playoff defeats of the BB era. Only time I remember a Brady-Belichick team looking like the generic other team in a sports movie.
That 2013 AFCCG was a 2-point-conversion away from being a one-score game, which easily could have resulted in a legendary furious comeback in the same ballpark as SB 51. Down 23-3 to start the 4th quarter, had we converted to close to 26-18, we wouldn't have onside-kicked - we had the timeouts and clock to kick it deep if we only needed one score. We onsided because we then needed 2. Put a healthy Gronk on that team and we probably win the right to get stomped by Seattle.

My ranking of nearest misses, among Brady years in which we didn't go to the SB, is:

1. 2006
2. 2015
3. 2010
4. 2012
5. 2013
6. 2005
7. 2002
8. 2009

The 2015 AFCCG may be the only time I felt we lost the game due to bad coaching decisions (i.e., not taking the FGs in the second half). When you're so close that the difference between you and the big dance is BB not calling a perfect game, it's a really f'ing near miss.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
5-2 feels right, even if we got there a weird way.
Funny to think about what the narrative would be if they won in 07 and 11 (both of which - 07 more than 11, of course - they probably should have won) and lost in 14 and 16 (in both of which their win probability was down to about 10% or lower). That 01-11 ten year period would be by far the best 10-year span for any NFL team, but now everyone would be talking about how Brady/Belichick couldn't win a Super Bowl anymore.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,948
That 2013 AFCCG was a 2-point-conversion away from being a one-score game, which easily could have resulted in a legendary furious comeback in the same ballpark as SB 51. Down 23-3 to start the 4th quarter, had we converted to close to 26-18, we wouldn't have onside-kicked - we had the timeouts and clock to kick it deep if we only needed one score. We onsided because we then needed 2. Put a healthy Gronk on that team and we probably win the right to get stomped by Seattle.

My ranking of nearest misses, among Brady years in which we didn't go to the SB, is:

1. 2006
2. 2015
3. 2010
4. 2012
5. 2013
6. 2005
7. 2002
8. 2009

The 2015 AFCCG may be the only time I felt we lost the game due to bad coaching decisions (i.e., not taking the FGs in the second half). When you're so close that the difference between you and the big dance is BB not calling a perfect game, it's a really f'ing near miss.
Let's not forget the coaching decisions at the end of the 2015 regular season (umm, let's defer after winning the coin toss in overtime) that led to us having to play in Denver in the first place. My God, those losses were frustrating as fucking hell, and the only time during the BB era that I've ever questioned any decisions he's made, or was convinced we lost as a result of decisions he made.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
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May 31, 2007
47,094
Let's not forget the coaching decisions at the end of the 2015 regular season (umm, let's defer after winning the coin toss in overtime) that led to us having to play in Denver in the first place. My God, those losses were frustrating as fucking hell, and the only time during the BB era that I've ever questioned any decisions he's made, or was convinced we lost as a result of decisions he made.
Yeah, that was a weird stretch for BB. Every decision he made seem to be excessively conservative. That team was absolutely roaring before the Lewis injury.
 

Ralphwiggum

Member
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Jun 27, 2012
9,827
Needham, MA
Even after a bye week, Brady is still in 1st place for passing yardage.
Brady would get strong consideration for MVP if the season ended today, which is awesome. However, in terms of the above (a) 22 of the 32 teams have already had their bye so most other starting QBs have played the same number of games as Brady, and (b) Brady leads the league in attempts and completions so leading in passing yardage is not all that surprising, even after the bye week.

Sorry for the interruption, now back to your regularly scheduled celebrating.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,613
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I tend to put the 2005 team in the coulda-should-woulda category more than the 2013 team, maybe more than 2012 too. Yes: the 10-6 2005 Patriots, with their 9.6% (!) DVOA rating and Troy Brown at CB. A team with a decimated secondary, and yet.... people forget: four straight solid wins to close the season before a meaningless week 17 loss to Miami with Brady mostly resting... personnel not much changed from the 2004 juggernaut (no Ty Law; Rodney Harrison lost to season-ending injury; but otherwise much the same)... front 7 really bringing it during the stretch.... only to dissolve into a puddle of turnovers in Denver. Had they played a somewhat clean game at Mile High, I remain convinced they would have pulled that out (had a lead and possession right before the half before the fumbles started, had been moving the ball better than the Broncos up to that point). Next up would have been Pit, whom Brady had already established ownership over. Followed by Holmgren, Hasselback and the Seahawks in the SB.

The 2013 team made the AFCCG, yes, but that was one of the more convincing— and boring— playoff defeats of the BB era. Only time I remember a Brady-Belichick team looking like the generic other team in a sports movie.
You are not.
 

Bongorific

Thinks he’s clever
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,433
Balboa Towers
NFL Network on Tuesday night have an Edelman and Amendola do Mexico City show. Commercials look pretty good. There are clips here
Uhhhh. Julian was running around playing soccer on crappy turf and practicing with nacho libre wrestlers or whatever those guys are called. Then he and Danny stuck their hands in a jaguar’s mouth.

I felt entirely stress free throughout the entire episode.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,059
Hingham, MA
Article in the Globe today about how the Pats don't do any group celebrations. Every time I see a group celebration all I can think of is, "these guys took time to choreograph this". And if they are taking time to choreograph a celebration, this is X less minutes that they are spending preparing for their next opponent.

I get that these guys aren't robots, and they don't spend every waking hour on football, but it fits the mentality of the team and HC perfectly that we don't see these celebrations. To paraphrase a quote from another team, "all they care about is winning there".
 

patoaflac

Member
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May 6, 2016
2,115
Mexico City
That´s what I think while watching our fielders with thier dance. I could not imagine Rice, Lynn and Evans doing that and impossible to imagine Teddy or Yaz.
 

joe dokes

Member
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Jul 18, 2005
30,242
That´s what I think while watching our fielders with thier dance. I could not imagine Rice, Lynn and Evans doing that and impossible to imagine Teddy or Yaz.
Get back to me when the OFs dance while the game is still going on.
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2002
13,631
Springfield, VA
That´s what I think while watching our fielders with thier dance.
There's way, way more dead time in a baseball game than a football game. They could probably come up with the whole thing just sitting in the dugout waiting for their turn to bat.

I could not imagine Rice, Lynn and Evans doing that and impossible to imagine Teddy or Yaz.
Oh wait, you just want to get them off your lawn. Sorry.
 

cgrove13

New Member
Feb 2, 2010
23
That´s what I think while watching our fielders with thier dance. I could not imagine Rice, Lynn and Evans doing that and impossible to imagine Teddy or Yaz.
Orlando Cabrera's personalized handshakes were a key factor in the 2004 WS win. I estimate that they were equal to Keith Foulke in terms of impact. There is no amount of time he could have spent on them that I would describe as 'too much'.

How many WS titles did Williams, Yaz, Rice, Lynn, and Evans win?

Checkmate.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,405
around the way
Orlando Cabrera's personalized handshakes were a key factor in the 2004 WS win. I estimate that they were equal to Keith Foulke in terms of impact. There is no amount of time he could have spent on them that I would describe as 'too much'.

How many WS titles did Williams, Yaz, Rice, Lynn, and Evans win?

Checkmate.
If by checkmate you mean that this nonsense digression is over, then I fully support that.
 

mwonow

Member
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Sep 4, 2005
7,095
Just noted on the telecast - Pats have had seven drives so far this season that started inside their 10, and have come way with points on...all seven
 

loshjott

Member
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Dec 30, 2004
14,943
Silver Spring, MD
Uhhhh. Julian was running around playing soccer on crappy turf and practicing with nacho libre wrestlers or whatever those guys are called. Then he and Danny stuck their hands in a jaguar’s mouth.

I felt entirely stress free throughout the entire episode.
That was filmed last spring. Maybe that’s obvious because Jules wasn’t on crutches.