That was then: Celebrating what was

[CantKeepmedown]

Peter King doing a lot of stuff with Brady this week. Part 1 is Brady talking about the comeback in SB LI. There will be other stuff coming later in the week.

One tidbit I gathered from this piece was that White's game winning run in OT was actually the 3rd 2 pt conversion the Pats had ready to go. So, technically, they went 3-3 on two point conversions.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing 4h4 hours ago
I interviewed Tom Brady in Montana today. Two-part series beginning in the morning in MMQB. Two-part podcast too (Tues-Thurs).

Not sure Tom really needed to take Joe's GOAT comments that far.

 

[InstaFace]

Not sure Tom really needed to take Joe's GOAT comments that far.

Your point is well-taken, but couldn't Peter have at least given them a few minutes? The interview can wait.

 

[DJnVa]

Interesting that the White game winner was in the playbook as a 2 point conversion play.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

Not sure Tom really needed to take Joe's GOAT comments that far.

This was way funnier than my first thought which was to ask if he goes up there every year to thank Bledsoe for nearly dying.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Interesting that the White game winner was in the playbook as a 2 point conversion play.

I bet in the playbook Tommy leads him better and Cannon puts on a better block

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

A part in the MMQB piece fits in with something we've speculated about in gamethreads -- the advantage that a QB has if he can get to the line quickly since the communications with the coach doesn't cut off until there are 15 seconds left on the play clock.

In one of the NFLN shows after Super Bowl 49, I think Belichick talked a little bit about how the end of the Super Bowl is really chaotic. You go from this very leisurely pace, where there's a commercial ever single time they have an excuse for one, to many fewer commercials in the last 10 minutes. You have people in the tunnels in your peripheral vision starting to compile all the stuff for the trophy podium. You've got all the camera people and stuff starting to flood the end zone areas and the sidelines. You get a bunch of interference from all the stuff going on.

It becomes about who can keep their head. I thought both teams did a good job in the fourth quarter. Like Brady, Ryan was fast out of the huddle. He seemed to have good poise, especially on the drive that could have won the game for them. But seven games worth of experience really showed. Brady was just so calm. And the absence of significant breaks every opportunity allowed momentum to start to avalanche on the Falcons once things got bad.

But back to the point about the communication system cutting off, there are some QBs that are persistently late to the line. Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler come to mind. And there are defenses that do a great job of slowing up the other team from getting back into the huddle to seemingly always make them rush to beat the play clock. (Steelers come to mind. They always are slow to get up off a running back, and seem to have their defensive backs always sort of stand in the path of receivers running back to the huddle to get that extra second.) Even when not in a hurry up, getting to the line quick is one of those little things that I bet consistently good teams do a really good job at. And also probably vice versa.

 

[E5 Yaz]

A part in the MMQB piece fits in with something we've speculated about in gamethreads -- the advantage that a QB has if he can get to the line quickly since the communications with the coach doesn't cut off until there are 15 seconds left on the play clock.

In one of the NFLN shows after Super Bowl 49, I think Belichick talked a little bit about how the end of the Super Bowl is really chaotic. You go from this very leisurely pace, where there's a commercial ever single time they have an excuse for one, to many fewer commercials in the last 10 minutes. You have people in the tunnels in your peripheral vision starting to compile all the stuff for the trophy podium. You've got all the camera people and stuff starting to flood the end zone areas and the sidelines. You get a bunch of interference from all the stuff going on.

It becomes about who can keep their head. I thought both teams did a good job in the fourth quarter. Like Brady, Ryan was fast out of the huddle. He seemed to have good poise, especially on the drive that could have won the game for them. But seven games worth of experience really showed. Brady was just so calm. And the absence of significant breaks every opportunity allowed momentum to start to avalanche on the Falcons once things got bad.

But back to the point about the communication system cutting off, there are some QBs that are persistently late to the line. Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler come to mind. And there are defenses that do a great job of slowing up the other team from getting back into the huddle to seemingly always make them rush to beat the play clock. (Steelers come to mind. They always are slow to get up off a running back, and seem to have their defensive backs always sort of stand in the path of receivers running back to the huddle to get that extra second.) Even when not in a hurry up, getting to the line quick is one of those little things that I bet consistently good teams do a really good job at. And also probably vice versa.

Yeah, that stuck out ... as did the part about Mitchell having earned Brady's trust. If you can gloss over King's wonder at having been invited to Brady's secret Montana hideout, the football stuff is worth reading

 

[E5 Yaz]

Yeah, that stuck out ... as did the part about Mitchell having earned Brady's trust. If you can gloss over King's wonder at having been invited to Brady's secret Montana hideout, the football stuff is worth reading

For instance

One: the six-yard touchdown pass to Danny Amendola. Watch closely the Fox replay. Brady’s in the shotgun with 31 seconds left on the play clock, with his receivers fanning out and Amendola settling in the left slot. Cornerback Jalen Collins starts on Amendola’s outside shoulder. But then Collins walks, almost aimlessly, to the inside shoulder and stares a hole through Brady. With about 21 seconds left on the play clock, Brady changes the play. He gives Amendola a sort of stop sign, and Amendola moves out a couple of steps. Collins does nothing. Now, Brady can hear a coach talk to him until the 15-second point of the play clock, but he doesn’t recall exactly what McDaniels told him on this one.

“I think he said, ‘Don’t forget about Danny,’ or ‘Danny has a great shot on this.’ Something like that,” Brady said. “I wanted to give Danny a better chance to get open. So I pushed him out because I knew at that point I had changed the route and I wanted to make sure Danny would get the leverage or put him in a better position to get the leverage based on the route that he had. I wanted to move him out because I didn’t want him to get stuck inside of Jalen … [Collins] being inside told me it was probably man coverage, a perimeter corner on the inside of the field … When I pushed Danny out, Jalen didn’t really adjust, so I was really looking outside after that to see if the corner was going to try to get involved and maybe trapping that to the flat. But once I saw the corner go with the outside receiver, or it might have been James White, I just threw it to Danny.”

 

[mwonow]

Snippet from that MMQB piece - actually, a lift from Sam Farmer's twitter feed: "The most stunning stat of the Super Bowl: Teams leading by 25+ points are 2545-4-2 (regular season) in those games"

 

[JohnnyK]

I bet in the playbook Tommy leads him better and Cannon puts on a better block

I believe they talked about this somewhere and the gist of it was that Deion Jones (#45) made a really good read and managed to get to Cannon's outside so he could not seal him off.

 

[simplyeric]

I believe they talked about this somewhere and the gist of it was that Deion Jones (#45) made a really good read and managed to get to Cannon's outside so he could not seal him off.

Damn man. White was everywhere Brady wanted him to be. That's a great highlight reel.

 

[Import78]

It sure is. Did he have any negative plays at all? cause, Damn.

One thing I appreciated about White (and most of the team in general) is that the big play celebrations were pretty muted early on. After the first touchdown he just high fives Bennet and pats him on the helmet. For the tying and wining touchdowns he gets a lot more animated.

I don't like it when people get all jacked up after a big play when they're down huge. I'm not sure why, but it bothers me a little.

 

[gmogmo]

Did he have any negative plays at all? cause, Damn.

I think his only negative play was on the 1st down after the pass to Hogan in OT he caught a pass in backfield and lost 3 yards.

 

[loshjott]

It sure is. Did he have any negative plays at all? cause, Damn.

One thing I appreciated about White (and most of the team in general) is that the big play celebrations were pretty muted early on. After the first touchdown he just high fives Bennet and pats him on the helmet. For the tying and wining touchdowns he gets a lot more animated.

I don't like it when people get all jacked up after a big play when they're down huge. I'm not sure why, but it bothers me a little.

Agreed. I made this same point in one of the many threads.

 

[mwonow]

I believe they talked about this somewhere and the gist of it was that Deion Jones (#45) made a really good read and managed to get to Cannon's outside so he could not seal him off.

I still cackle maniacally when I hear "the Patriots win the Super Bowl!"

Nice blocking by Shaq on the 2 pointer - he basically just carves a lane through the D

 

[loshjott]

http://www.patriots.com/fan-zone/patriots-valentines

 

[InstaFace]

Wow those are great (at their intended purpose). Bit of a hack day for the Patriots' marketing and design team, glad to see they had fun.

 

[loshjott]

My favorite: Our Love Takes NO DAYS OFF

 

[drbretto]

Greatly prefer this one from the Super Bowl pics and vids thread:

 

[Don Buddin's GS]

My wife is looking at me funny wondering why I'm chuckling uncontrollably

 

[Adrian's Dome]

"It is what it is" with Belichick is gold.

 

[E5 Yaz]

 

[johnmd20]

"It is what it is" with Belichick is gold.

That is the card of the year.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

"It is what it is" with Belichick is gold.

We're on to Presidents' Day.

 

[DavidTai]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/02/14/film-review-the-falcons-didnt-blow-the-super-bowl-bill-belichick-took-it-from-them/97889450/

 

[InstaFace]

Great article, ITP-style. Written by someone who actually understands football. I learned something there, thanks for posting.

I'm not sure Quinn had too many options, though. If he had mixed in more zone earlier in the game to save stamina, Brady could have just picked it apart as easily as he did late in the game. They got their turnovers, which took 6 points off the board for NE and put on 7 for ATL. They didn't make the mistake of blitzing Brady much. They largely shut down Edelman because of the focus on middle routes. It was our 3rd and 4th WRs (Hogan's catch on 3rd-and-10 in the tying drive is a big unsung play) and our 3rd RB that ended up beating them. Depth over superstars.

 

[ifmanis5]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/02/14/film-review-the-falcons-didnt-blow-the-super-bowl-bill-belichick-took-it-from-them/97889450/

Best recap of that game that you will read. Excellent analysis. Thanks for posting.

 

[MillarTime]

We're on to Presidents' Day.

Excellent work.

 

[Don Buddin's GS]

I'm in Aruba for six days and I'm seeing Pats fans everywhere. TB12 jerseys are the clothing option of choice. Even ran into a group of folks from my hometown of Leominster.

Literally a small world.

 

[BaseballJones]

Interesting tidbit. Here are the scores of the Pats' 7 Super Bowls in the TB/BB era.

W, 20-17
W, 32-29
W, 24-21
L, 14-17
L, 17-21
W, 28-24
W, 34-28


So in order, their points allowed in these 7 SBs, from most to least, and the result:

29 (vs Car) - win
28 (vs Atl) - win
24 (vs Sea) - win
21 (vs Phi) - win
21 (vs NYG) - loss
17 (vs NYG) - loss
17 (vs StL) - win

So in the three games where they gave up the least number of points, they won two of them. In the three games where they gave up the most points, they won all three.

So....defense wins championships? Well, kinda sorta. In the Atlanta and Seattle wins, clearly the defense came up HUGE in the second half, despite allowing higher numbers of points, and of course 7 of Atlanta's points came on a pick-six.

On the flip side, here are their points scored, and the result:

34 (vs Atl) - win
32 (vs Car) - win
28 (vs Sea) - win
24 (vs Phi) - win
20 (vs StL) - win
17 (vs NYG) - loss
14 (vs NYG) - loss

So in that view, their offense seems to hold the key. When they score points, they win. When they don't, they lose.


EDIT: Their points scored in their last two Super Bowl title runs:

2014
35 (vs Bal)
45 (vs Ind)
28 (vs Sea)
AVG: 36.0

2016
34 (vs Hou)
36 (vs Pit)
34 (vs Atl)
AVG: 34.7

 

[reggiecleveland]

Those comparisons will always favor the O. The only way to win a high scoring game is to score a lot, so 100% of high scoring games end up in column A.

 

[BaseballJones]

Those comparisons will always favor the O. The only way to win a high scoring game is to score a lot, so 100% of high scoring games end up in column A.

I don't really understand what you are getting at.

If the Pats kicked a FG in OT, and the Falcons came back with a TD, the Patriots would have lost the Falcons game 34-31. That 31 points would have been the 2nd most points scored by the Pats ever in a SB, but it would have resulted in a loss.

So that high scoring game would have ended up in column B, not column A.

So what am I missing here?

 

[InstaFace]

Yeah, but we won, so in the hilariously small sample size of "super bowls Tom Brady has played in", we get to say things like "he won two of three" and "he won all three" as if you can draw any conclusions about the group.

edit: wait, which side are you arguing? Is it both? I've lost track of what point you're trying to make here.

 

[TheoShmeo]

I was in court in Delaware yesterday. After the hearing ended, I put my coat and baseball hat on. It was reasonably cold outside and I am hair challenged.

I forgot that one of the other law firms involved is from Atlanta. The amount of whining and calling foul at my Patriots hat from the ATLs was priceless. Unintentional infliction of emotional distress. And while I wasn't trying to cause pain or manufacture a schadenfreude moment, I'll never forget their horrified faces.

On the flip side, they owe me a relatively minor concession and something tells me that I'm not getting it.

 

[simplyeric]

I was in court in Delaware yesterday. After the hearing ended, I put my coat and baseball hat on. It was reasonably cold outside and I am hair challenged.

I forgot that one of the other law firms involved is from Atlanta. The amount of whining and calling foul at my Patriots hat from the ATLs was priceless. Unintentional infliction of emotional distress. And while I wasn't trying to cause pain or manufacture a schadenfreude moment, I'll never forget their horrified faces.

On the flip side, they owe me a relatively minor concession and something tells me that I'm not getting it.

Just keep doing what you're doing...you'll get that concession at the last minute...

Are you defense or offense?

 

[TheoShmeo]

Just keep doing what you're doing...you'll get that concession at the last minute...

Are you defense or offense?

Neither, exactly. Bankruptcy.

 

[Pandemonium67]

So....defense wins championships? Well, kinda sorta.

There are two teams playing. You can't say that the Pats' two SB losses (where the defense was fine) is evidence that defense doesn't win championships, because those losses came to teams with even better defenses.

That said, I don't agree with the 'Defense Wins Championships' adage. The team that scores the most points wins, and the O and special teams are all part of the picture.

 

[dbn]

There are two teams playing. You can't say that the Pats' two SB losses (where the defense was fine) is evidence that defense doesn't win championships, because those losses came to teams with even better defenses.

That said, I don't agree with the 'Defense Wins Championships' adage. The team that scores the most points wins, and the O and special teams are all part of the picture.

You've heard the term "complementary football" somewhere!

 

[BaseballJones]

Yeah, but we won, so in the hilariously small sample size of "super bowls Tom Brady has played in", we get to say things like "he won two of three" and "he won all three" as if you can draw any conclusions about the group.

edit: wait, which side are you arguing? Is it both? I've lost track of what point you're trying to make here.

My point was simply that I thought it was interesting that in the games where the Patriots gave up the most points (the 7 TB/BB Super Bowls), they won those games. It has no projectability moving forward. If you don't find it interesting, that's cool.

 

[Euclis20]

There are two teams playing. You can't say that the Pats' two SB losses (where the defense was fine) is evidence that defense doesn't win championships, because those losses came to teams with even better defenses.

That said, I don't agree with the 'Defense Wins Championships' adage. The team that scores the most points wins, and the O and special teams are all part of the picture.

The Pats D allowed last minute game winning drives in both of their losses. Those Giants' teams had perhaps the worst offenses of any other Pats SB opponent in the Brady era, I'm not sure I'd say the defense was "fine" even if the points allowed was on the lower end.

There's no real way to examine the Defense Wins Championships saying. I took a quick look at the DVOA of super bowl teams over the last 29 years (as far back as DVOA goes), and the team with the better defensive DVOA went 17-12, while the team with the better offensive DVOA went 13-16. The average SB winner was ranked 7th in offensive DVOA and 8th in defensive DVOA.

What did I learn? Nothing, really.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Reading Reiss this morning, I just realized Flowers was the pick from the Mankins trade. That means Bill the GM turned one year of Mankins and one year of Jones into 4 cost-controlled years of Flowers, Thuney, and Mitchell, while saving roughly 12 million in the process. Mind blowing.

 

[tims4wins]

Reading Reiss this morning, I just realized Flowers was the pick from the Mankins trade. That means Bill the GM turned one year of Mankins and one year of Jones into 4 cost-controlled years of Flowers, Thuney, and Mitchell, while saving roughly 12 million in the process. Mind blowing.

Oh and they won the Super Bowl both years following the trades

 

[BigSoxFan]

Oh and they won the Super Bowl both years following the trades

So...who's this year's sacrifice?

 

[54thMA]

In one of the NFLN shows after Super Bowl 49, I think Belichick talked a little bit about how the end of the Super Bowl is really chaotic. You go from this very leisurely pace, where there's a commercial ever single time they have an excuse for one, to many fewer commercials in the last 10 minutes. You have people in the tunnels in your peripheral vision starting to compile all the stuff for the trophy podium. You've got all the camera people and stuff starting to flood the end zone areas and the sidelines. You get a bunch of interference from all the stuff going on.

It becomes about who can keep their head. I thought both teams did a good job in the fourth quarter.

I think this also applies to coaches as well as players.

The past two Patriots Super Bowl wins showcase that, Belichick vs Carroll and Belichick vs Quinn.

Belichick made the comment regarding Super Bowl 49 as to why he didn't call a time out on 2nd and goal and he said something to the effect that he looked over at the Seattle sideline and things appeared to be confusing on their end, so I wasn't going to call a time out to let them get organized, if they wanted to call one, so be it.

Quinn mentioned when asked that the end of the game "was all a blur" or something to that effect.

Whenever NFL films showed Carroll or Quinn on the sidelines during both games, they were glorified cheerleaders; when they showed Belichick, he was either very quiet and stoic, or, he was near the bench coaching his players, specifically his defense. No cheerleading, just thinking and coaching.

My appreciation for Belichick the coach grows by the day; Brady is the GOAT from a QB standpoint, but I also think Belichick is the GOAT from a coaching standpoint.

He is a tremendous coach.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

The thing that does it for me is that every so often, it just pops into my head that, holy crap, not only did they win the whole freakin' shabang AGAIN, but they did it with Brady suspended for four games and without their first rounder the previous spring.

 

[Oppo]

The thing that does it for me is that every so often, it just pops into my head that, holy crap, not only did they win the whole freakin' shabang AGAIN, but they did it with Brady suspended for four games and without their first rounder the previous spring.

And have not had to give out absurd contracts or mortgage the future.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Reading Reiss this morning, I just realized Flowers was the pick from the Mankins trade. That means Bill the GM turned one year of Mankins and one year of Jones into 4 cost-controlled years of Flowers, Thuney, and Mitchell, while saving roughly 12 million in the process. Mind blowing.

Makes me pumped to see what they turn the Jamie Collins pick into.

Think back to the teeth gnashing we read and listened to when Mankins, Jones and Collins were traded. Something about screwing up the Brady window. I wish I had bought stock in Depends.

 

[Saints Rest]

So...who's this year's sacrifice?

Based on past moves -- Collins, Jones, Mankins, Seymour, Milloy, -- my fear would be that Gronk and DMac are the likeliest victims.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Solder feels like the most likely candidate to me. And no, I have no clue who'd play LT afterwards