Canadian and US Olympic Teams Begin to Take Shape

[scotian1]

Canada and the US have each invited over 40 players to their orientation camps to be held this summer. Canada's head coach will be Mike Babcock assisted by Lindy Ruff, Ken Hitchcock and the Bruins Claude Julien. Three Bruins have been invited; Bergeron, Lucic and Marchand.
Here is the full list:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/crosby-toews/
 
The U.S. will be led by Dan Bylsma. There are no Bruins invited for Team USA.
Complete list:
 
http://olympics.usahockey.com/news_article/show/272491?referrer_id=

 

[PedroSpecialK]

No Tim Thomas on the Orientation Camp roster.
 
This is my shocked face.

 

[McDrew]

There are no Bruins invited for Team USA.

Seeing as the only Americans currently on the roster are Matt Bartkowski and Torey Krug, I'm SHOCKED.

Anyone wanna argue that Finland doesn't have the best Goalie tandem of any team? Rask/Niemi/Rinne.

 

[scotian1]

Finland's goaltending is their strong point. Not too sure about their forwards but Finland always seems to get the most out of their players in International competition.
Here are Finland's invitees:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2013/07/22/sp-nhl-finland-olympic-camp-roster.html

 

[ForceAtHome]

Seeing as the only Americans currently on the roster are Matt Bartkowski and Torey Krug, I'm SHOCKED.

Anyone wanna argue that Finland doesn't have the best Goalie tandem of any team? Rask/Niemi/Rinne.

 
Quick plus two of Schneider, Anderson, and Howard is no slouch.
 
If Anderson can replicate last year's numbers, my god. In more limited playing time, Anderson had better numbers than Rask, Niemi and Howard were basically identical last year, and Rinne/Quick were similar as well. Schneider's numbers were better than Niemi/Rinne, and actually weren't far off of Rask. Ultimately, you (hopefully) only need one stud goalie though, and between Quick/Rask/Rinne, I'm not sure either country has much of an edge.
 
Canada lacks a slam dunk stud goalie, USA lacks the explosive high end offense, and Russia's defense has question marks. It basically seems like goaltending, defense, offense: pick two.

 

[cshea]

Team USA probably shakes out something like this:

Parise - Backes - Kane
Ryan - Stastny - Kessel
JVR - Kesler - Wheeler
Stepan - Callahan - Pavelski
Oshie/Okposo

Suter - Shattenkirk
J. Johnson - Byfuglien
McDonaugh - E. Johnson
Orpik/Martin

Quick

Then 2 of Miller, Anderson and Howard. That will be a tough decision.

I like getting the kids, most of which were part of the recent WJC gold medal team, into the program and at the orientation camp. It atleast gets the kids the experience for down the road in 2018, with the added benefit of having the ability to pluck someone like Seth Jones out if he starts out hot in the NHL.

Edit: Christ, I forgot about Schneider. He's in the mix at goalie as well.

 

[ForceAtHome]

Team USA probably shakes out something like this:

Parise - Backes - Kane
Ryan - Stastny - Kessel
JVR - Kesler - Wheeler
Stepan - Callahan - Pavelski
Oshie/Okposo
 

 
You're missing Brown and Pacioretty who are both good shots to make the team. Brown is a virtual lock, I think. I don't think Wheeler nor Okposo makes it, either. I would guess something more in line with:

Parise Stastny Kane
Pacioretty Kesler Kessel
Brown Backes Callahan
JVR Stepan Ryan
Pavelski/Oshie
 
I expect at least one of Yandle/Carlson to be in the mix amongst the top-7 as well. Schneider is also in play for goalie.

 

[cshea]

Yep, you're right. I cant believe I forgot about Dustin Brown. He is a definite, he had a great tournament for them in 2010. Yandle is probably a lock as well. I was just doing righty/lefty with the defensemen and somehow missed him.

 

[scotian1]

Brown for sure will be on the U.S. team. Not only his talent but his grit is needed.  Two players from Canada's Gold Medal 2010 did not receive invites this time around, Martin Brodeur and Jerome Iginla. 
Here is Russia's list for their camp.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=428183

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Suter, Yandle, Shattenkirk, McDonagh, and Martin are the top 5 defenseman. I'd likely take Bogosian as my 6th, and bring one kid (Leddy, Gardiner, Faulk) or one vet (Orpik, Byfuglin, EJohnson). They could also carry only two goalies and go with 8 D, but I think th security of a 3rd goalie is too much. I'd to Quick/Anderson/Howard in goal.

Forwards will be all about creating lines. Kane, Brown, Kessel, Parise, Backes, Kelser, Callahan, and Ryan are the only automatics- the rest depends on how the want to set up the team. Do you take soft talent like JVR or try to get a guy like Saad to round out a great checking line with Brown and Callahan?

Our friends to the North have been pretty vocal about praising Canada's superiority and mocking the US, but I think we've got a solid shot against anyone except the Russians and their bribed/threatened officials.

 

[ForceAtHome]

Suter, Yandle, Shattenkirk, McDonagh, and Martin are the top 5 defenseman. I'd likely take Bogosian as my 6th, and bring one kid (Leddy, Gardiner, Faulk) or one vet (Orpik, Byfuglin, EJohnson). They could also carry only two goalies and go with 8 D, but I think th security of a 3rd goalie is too much. I'd to Quick/Anderson/Howard in goal.

Forwards will be all about creating lines. Kane, Brown, Kessel, Parise, Backes, Kelser, Callahan, and Ryan are the only automatics- the rest depends on how the want to set up the team. Do you take soft talent like JVR or try to get a guy like Saad to round out a great checking line with Brown and Callahan?

Our friends to the North have been pretty vocal about praising Canada's superiority and mocking the US, but I think we've got a solid shot against anyone except the Russians and their bribed/threatened officials.

 
Jack Johnson, who played for Team USA last Olympics and has worn the 'C' for the Americans multiple times, is probably one of the likeliest defensemen to make the team outside of Suter. Are you really suggesting he's not in your top-12 or did you forget him?
 
Also, I don't know if it was serious or not, but I don't think the refs will be a problem, either. The WJC just went on in Russia without incident. I know Olympic stakes are higher, but there will be NHL referees as well as refs from other European leagues in the mix.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

It might not be the refs specifically, but believe me, the Russians will manipulate the shit out of every possible circumstance at these Olympic Games in order to achieve every possible edge...and yes, that will likely include some instances of outright cheating. Not just in ice hockey.... in every sport.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

I think Jack Johnson is bad at hockey. He's incredibly physically gifted, but I would take the 6-8 guys I listed ahead of him for sure.

As far as wearing the C- he did that when he was younger and his skills could overcome his poor decision making and he did it at the world championships in 2012, where the team was so talent laden that the As went to Nate Thompson and Jim Slater. I won't be surprised if Johnson (both of them for that matter) is on the team, but I think we'd be better off without.

And I was mostly kidding about the refs.

 

[Greg29fan]

just remember Bylsma's the head coach so he'll probably have guys playing the wrong wing and defensemen as forwards.

 

[scotian1]

Mike Babcock was interviewed tonight on Sportsnet and said with the abundance of skilled centres Canada has there will be some of them playing on the wings. I wonder where that puts Lucic and Marchand.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

IMO Lucic has an outside chance of making the team in the Brenden Morrow role if he has a strong start. Bergeron has the inside track on a bottom-6 role. I don't see Marchand making the roster - he doesn't have gaudy enough numbers or the Team Canada track record to beat out the big-time centers like E. Staal/Richards who get shifted to the wing.

 

[scotian1]

Good story on Canada's invitees from the Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/hockey-canada-invites-47-to-mens-olympic-hockey-orientation-camp/article13342399/

 

[j44thor]

IMO Lucic has an outside chance of making the team in the Brenden Morrow role if he has a strong start. Bergeron has the inside track on a bottom-6 role. I don't see Marchand making the roster - he doesn't have gaudy enough numbers or the Team Canada track record to beat out the big-time centers like E. Staal/Richards who get shifted to the wing.

 
Babcock has emphasized that they want 2 way players who can skate on the big surface.  That all but eliminates Lucic but should give Marchand a shot if he has a hot start to the season.  He is on the outside looking in but one of the few invitees that should get considerable PK time during the season which can only help his chances.

 

[The Napkin]

selfishly I kind of hope none of them go and they get a nice good rest in the middle of the season. alas...

 

[TheRealness]

Out of Boston's players, I feel Bergeron is close to a lock on Team Canada, Rask will split time in net for Finland, Eriksson will play for Sweden, Krejci for the Czechs, and Chara for the Slovaks. 
 
I think Lucic is too slow footed for the international game, and Marchand just doesn't have enough cash behind his name. Is Germany in it? Seidenberg would be a lock for them. 
 
Outside of that, I highly doubt any other Bruins are selected. 

 

[cshea]

Germany didn't qualify.

 

[kenneycb]

Out of Boston's players, I feel Bergeron is close to a lock on Team Canada, Rask will split time in net for Finland, Eriksson will play for Sweden, Krejci for the Czechs, and Chara for the Slovaks. 
 
I think Lucic is too slow footed for the international game, and Marchand just doesn't have enough cash behind his name. Is Germany in it? Seidenberg would be a lock for them. 
 
Outside of that, I highly doubt any other Bruins are selected. 

Does the Yeti stand a chance with Sweden?
 
And the German team would be painful to watch, if only for the sound of their T-Blades mangling the ice surface.

 

[cshea]

Soderberg wasn't invited. He'll never play for Sweden in any sort of international tournament after last year's fiasco.

Sweden is pretty loaded at forward anyway, doubt he would've made it.

 

[TheRealness]

Soderberg wasn't invited. He'll never play for Sweden in any sort of international tournament after last year's fiasco.

Sweden is pretty loaded at forward anyway, doubt he would've made it.

 
Never say never.  When he scores a bajillion goals next year, they'll be sending over Swedish model after Swedish model to beg for his forgiveness and play for the motherland again. 

 

[scotian1]

This is going to be one whale of a tournament, looking at the top 7 teams the NFL theme of on any given Sunday will certainly apply to this Olympics.

 

[cshea]

Bump....Team USA will announce their roster tomorrow after the WC. Anyone want to hazard a guess?

Parise - Backes - Kane
JVR - Kesler - Ryan
Pacioretty - Pavelski - Kessel
Brown - Wheeler - Callahan
Oshie, Stastny?

Suter - Yandle
McDonagh - Shattenkirk
Martin - J. Johnson
Jones, Fowler

Miller
Quick
Howard?

3rd goalie is tough. Howard has been shaky at times and injured, but nobody else has really seized the 3rd spot. Also, as of right now Miller would be my starter. He has played very well for an awful Sabres team, while Quick has been mostly injured this season. He is due back soon so Bylsma/Shero/Poile will have some time to see where Quick is at before the tournament starts. D is tough too. I'm not a huge fan of Jack Johnson, but he's a USA hockey through and through, so I'd imagine they'll be loyal with him. Ryan Callahan is also hurt now. I could see Stepan replacing him, but gave the nod to Callahan since he was so good for them in 2010.

Edit: I'm sure I have some glaring omission, so feel free to mock.

 

[Sausage in Section 17]

New Olympic Hockey thread going on.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?/topic/80961-Men's-Ice-Hockey

 

[cshea]

Apparently there is some speculation that Bobby Ryan will be left off the team. That is absolutely nuts, IMO. I think he's the second best American winger behind Kane.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/bobby-ryan-left-off-u-olympic-roster-sochi-141951120--nhl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[ForceAtHome]

Bump....Team USA will announce their roster tomorrow after the WC. Anyone want to hazard a guess?

 
My guess:

Parise - Kesler - Kane
JVR - Pavelski - Kessel
Brown - Backes - Oshie
Pacioretty - Stastny - Ryan
Extras: Wheeler/Callahan, though I think I'd prefer/hope for Saad over Callahan.

Suter - Shattenkirk
McDonagh - Fowler
Martin - Carlson
Faulk - J. Johnson
 
Miller
Quick
Howard

 

[Yeah Jeets]

Ben Bishop's got a 1.89 GAA and .935 save %. 1.50/.945 in December. He's allowed more than two goals five times in 29 starts. Leaving him off, especially with Howard's form and Quick's health issues, would be criminal IMO. 

 

[ForceAtHome]

 
My guess:
Parise - Kesler - Kane
JVR - Pavelski - Kessel
Brown - Backes - Oshie
Pacioretty - Stastny - Ryan Stepan
Extras: Wheeler/Callahan

Suter - Shattenkirk
McDonagh - Fowler
Martin - Carlson
Faulk - J. Johnson Orpik
 
Miller
Quick
Howard

 
All but two. Dang.

 

[JayMags71]

That is a hard team to root for.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Bobby Ryan, Kyle Okposo, Keith Yandle, Jack Johnson, Ben Bishop, Cory Schneider amongst notables not making Team USA.

 
Couple of very strange omissions - going with Faulk/Fowler for the big ice but leaving Yandle at home in lieu of Orpik is god damn crazy to me. Ryan probably wouldn't be in the top 6, him not being on the roster isn't that nuts to me - back-checking isn't his MO, and there's a chance he'd be exposed on the bigger ice. For the same reason, I'm surprised they chose Stastny over Dubinsky as bottom 6 insurance. Lastly, it's a no-brainer to go with one of Schneider/Bishop over Howard, but that's a minor quibble for a #3 goalie.
 
Parise - Backes - Kane
van Riemsdyk - Kesler - Kessel
Pacioretty - Stepan - Brown
Oshie - Pavelski - Callahan
Wheeler/Stastny
 
Suter - Carlson
Orpik - Martin (puke)
McDonagh - Shattenkirk
Fowler/Faulk
 
Miller
Quick
Howard
 
In a perfect world, one of Martin/Orpik sits and has their minutes minimized (or Yandle makes the squad) but with Byslma in charge, those guys are going to get serious minutes - likely to Team USA's detriment.

 

[Yeah Jeets]

No Ryan, no Yandle, no Bishop, and Brooks fucking Orpik. What is this I don't even

 

[Greg29fan]

Ryan wouldn't be in the top six, and isn't a bottom six player in temperament or style.  Doesn't kill penalties.
 
Yandle can't play the right side, only left, while Martin can and has played either.  And Martin is more defensively responsible times infinity.  
 
Third  goalie is basically meaningless.
 
This is a very in-depth piece by Scott Burnside as to the decision making behind the roster
 
http://t.co/OUbhM0AIWX

 

[scotian1]

Well in six days we will find out who Yzerman has chosen.

 

[ForceAtHome]

No Ryan, no Yandle, no Bishop, and Brooks fucking Orpik. What is this I don't even

 
None of this is really surprising... I thought about leaving Ryan off my predicted roster, too, given that he was fighting for a bottom 6 role. The only reason I didn't have Orpik on my roster is because of his health.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

Leaving Ryan and Yandle off the roster seems nuts.

 

[ForceAtHome]

People do realize that Ryan was left off the roster as a bottom 6 player who wasn't going to kill penalties nor play on the top PP unit (if at all)? Ryan's biggest weakness has always been skating, where they'll be on big ice.
 
Yandle plays hugely sheltered minutes and is a left shot? Yandle doesn't kill penalties and he wasn't going to be a PP quarterback either.

 

[sachmoney]

I think Brandon Saad is the biggest omission for me. He's a great skater who can do a lot of things, kill penalties, score goals, whatever they need him to do. Reading the Burnside piece, I'm still not sure how Wheeler usurped him (besides them liking Wheeler), though I have less of a problem with Oshie beating him, considering those were the last three for the last two. May be it's my Bruins bias against Wheeler and the fact that I watch the Hawks more than most of the other teams.
 
Defensively, from the gist of things, it sounds like Orpik isn't in the top 6 and the Yandle talk is clearly played out. I like Keith Yandle, but he has a lot of short comings. I get why he would be omitted. Really happy with Fowler making it. He's been tremendous for Anaheim. I think he earned his spot.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Yandle's omission also means that there are 3 Nutmeggers and zero from the other 5 NE states combined.
 
No Bay Staters, no Green Mountaineers.
 
I like Shattenkirk and even Kane, but JayMags is on point.

 

[ForceAtHome]

I think Brandon Saad is the biggest omission for me. He's a great skater who can do a lot of things, kill penalties, score goals, whatever they need him to do. Reading the Burnside piece, I'm still not sure how Wheeler usurped him (besides them liking Wheeler), though I have less of a problem with Oshie beating him, considering those were the last three for the last two. May be it's my Bruins bias against Wheeler and the fact that I watch the Hawks more than most of the other teams.
 
Defensively, from the gist of things, it sounds like Orpik isn't in the top 6 and the Yandle talk is clearly played out. I like Keith Yandle, but he has a lot of short comings. I get why he would be omitted. Really happy with Fowler making it. He's been tremendous for Anaheim. I think he earned his spot.

 
I agree with respect to this entire post. As noted in my prediction post, I was hoping for but not expecting to get Saad. I think he would have been a solid addition to the team.
 
Fowler has really blossomed. He's been the best defenseman on the best team in hockey this year. It's a crude way of looking at it, but he's been excellent. I am not surprised he made it, but I am also glad to see John Carlson made the team. I've been preaching for him all season, but he's also very deserving. Hopefully he can repeat his international magic.

 

[ForceAtHome]

Yandle's omission also means that there are 3 Nutmeggers and zero from the other 5 NE states combined.
 
No Bay Staters, no Green Mountaineers.
 
I like Shattenkirk and even Kane, but JayMags is on point.

 
John Carlson can be an honorary Bay Stater. He was born in Natick (despite growing up in NJ) and his older brother played club hockey for NU. Other guys with New England ties off the top of my head include JVR (UNH), Quick (UMass), and Howard (UMaine).

 

[BigMike]

Brooks Orpik is the biggest head scratcher,  if he actually plays a game, then it is a huge negative for the team.   He is just a pylon, who is absolutely useless on the international ice, 

 

[MoGator71]

Yea, I actually like Orpik's game but his particular skill set doesn't really translate to the big ice. Yandle's does. Based on that pick and the Ryan omission I assume they feel like they'll score plenty but want to be sure they can defend. But even in that case Ryan's omission is odd because would you really rather have JvR in your top-6 than Ryan? If anyone in the world preferred JvR to Ryan then Ryan would have been a Flyer long ago.
 
And yea Bishop is better than Howard, but Howard has a "name" I suppose. You'd think USA Hockey could do better than that, but considering Shero/Bylsma picked their guy Orpik I guess not.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

People do realize that Ryan was left off the roster as a bottom 6 player who wasn't going to kill penalties nor play on the top PP unit (if at all)? Ryan's biggest weakness has always been skating, where they'll be on big ice.
 
Yandle plays hugely sheltered minutes and is a left shot? Yandle doesn't kill penalties and he wasn't going to be a PP quarterback either.

I think you're over- and selectively rationalizing what are risky decisions by Poile. You're making one shortcoming (skating) a deal-breaker for Ryan while ignoring all his other fantastic traits, and you're doing the same for Yandle (about whom I feel you really had to reach: to wit, How do you shelter someone by putting them on the ice for 24 minutes per game and Why is his skating and offensive ability a negative on a big ice surface?). Poile is gambling that he only needs two scoring lines and that the other two can match the third and fourth of the Russias and Canadas of the tournament. Hey, it's a choice, but nobody should be surprised at the criticism he's getting for it.

 

[ForceAtHome]

I think you're over- and selectively rationalizing what are risky decisions by Poile. You're making one shortcoming (skating) a deal-breaker for Ryan while ignoring all his other fantastic traits

 
It's not just skating. It's back checking. It's defensive play. It's lack of penalty killing. It's pretty obvious that Team USA viewed Ryan as a bottom 6 player on their roster. Ryan himself even acknowledged that he was fighting for a bottom 6 role before the selections were made. I have no problem with taking a guy like Ryan Callahan over Bobby Ryan if the role is 4th line checker/energy/PK. (In the interest of full disclosure, I would have rather seen Saad over Callahan.)
 

you're doing the same for Yandle (about whom I feel you really had to reach: to wit, How do you shelter someone by putting them on the ice for 24 minutes per game and Why is his skating and offensive ability a negative on a big ice surface?).

 
0:19 SH TOI/game.
55+% offensive zone starts.
Negative Corsi QoC/Corsi Rel QoC numbers.
 
Last year Yandle had 3:58 SH TOI. That's not per game. That's total. As in, John Carlson kills more penalty time per game this year (4:00) than Yandle did all of last season.
 
For comparison, here is how Yandle stacks up in Corsi Rel QoC compared to the Team USA defense:
1st on their team: Suter, Carlson, Faulk, Martin
2nd on their team: Fowler (2nd by 0.018), Orpik (2nd only to Team USA's Martin), McDonagh (2nd by 0.081)
4th on their team: Shattenkirk (negative score)
5th on their team: Yandle (negative score)

 

[scotian1]

http://SPN, which was given exclusive access to behind-the-scenes discussions, quoted 2010 U.S Olympic general manager and current Calgary Flames president of hockey operations Brian Burke as saying Ryan was “passive. “He is not intense,” Burke said. “That word is not in his vocabulary. It’s never going to be in his vocabulary. He can’t spell intense.” - See more at: http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/senators-star-ryan-left-off-u-s-olympic-team#sthash.mpTibi8u.dpuf
 
Boy Brian Burke went a bit too far here.
 
Scott Burnside of ESPN had full access to the selection process, he has a great read about it at ESPN.com. The comments of Burke are from that article.

 

[brienc]

http://SPN, which was given exclusive access to behind-the-scenes discussions, quoted 2010 U.S Olympic general manager and current Calgary Flames president of hockey operations Brian Burke as saying Ryan was “passive. “He is not intense,” Burke said. “That word is not in his vocabulary. It’s never going to be in his vocabulary. He can’t spell intense.” - See more at: http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/senators-star-ryan-left-off-u-s-olympic-team#sthash.mpTibi8u.dpuf
 
Boy Brian Burke went a bit too far here.
 
Scott Burnside of ESPN had full access to the selection process, he has a great read about it at ESPN.com. The comments of Burke are from that article.

 

[MoGator71]

Wow.
 
And maybe Ryan is soft, but that didn't stop them taking JvR. And Kessel.