Bruins: post mortem

[BoSoxFink]

So what happens this offseason? Are both Julien and Chia gone? Or just one? Or neither?

What players are gone? What moves should the team make to improve? Here is your chance to give your input, and provide what you think should happen. What say you Sosh?

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I'm not a fan of firing Claude. First time they've missed the playoffs in his 8 seasons and he rode this mediocre roster to a 95 point season (would have been good for a playoff birth in almost every other season).

There is nobody available I'd want to replace him with; he's a great coach. The grass is not greener.

I'm not married to Chiarelli. He's been good, but could have been better. They need better.

Shake up the roster, maybe replace the GM and go from there.

Keep Claude.

 

[jsinger121]

Fire Chia and hire Don Sweeney and keep Claude and try to shake up the roster.

 

[BoSoxFink]

I'm not a fan of firing Claude. First time they've missed the playoffs in his 8 seasons and he rode this mediocre roster to a 95 point season (would have been good for a playoff birth in almost every other season).

There is nobody available I'd want to replace him with; he's a great coach. The grass is not greener.

I'm not married to Chiarelli. He's been good, but could have been better. They need better.

Shake up the roster, maybe replace the GM and go from there.

Keep Claude.

what if Babcock were available? Would that change your mind?

 

[timlinin8th]

~6M in cap space saved by letting all of Campbell, Paille, McQuaid, and Bartkowski walk. This is going to be a very different looking team next season.

No clue on the management. I'm torn, in that I feel this season has been largely rudderless, but I know how hard decent management can be in hockey. Who knows.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Clear them all out. Chia, Claude and the coaching staff, and all the non-crucial guys they can. This team arguably should have been retooled after last season when it was clear they didn't have the speed to keep up with the Montreals of the league. Now they have no choice. Their game looks laughably archaic in comparison to the quality teams of the league.
 
If Bartkowski is on the team next year I'm killing a kitten.

 

[Myt1]

Bring them both back, they've both earned an opportunity to fix things and I don't think there's a a massive upgrade available anyway.

Change for the sake of change is one of my least favorite management techniques.

 

[SpacemanzGerbil]

Fire Chia and hire Don Sweeney and keep Claude and try to shake up the roster.

I hated that guy as a player almost as much as I hated O'Connell as a player.
 
 

Clear them all out. Chia, Claude and the coaching staff, and all the non-crucial guys they can. This team arguably should have been retooled after last season when it was clear they didn't have the speed to keep up with the Montreals of the league. Now they have no choice. Their game looks laughably archaic in comparison to the quality teams of the league.
 
If Bartkowski is on the team next year I'm killing a kitten.

I think it looked archaic because Chara and Seidenberg fell off the cliff and hit every sucky branch of the suck tree on the way down.
 
It was a weird season. Streaky as hell the whole time. I'm not opposed to getting rid of Claude but the GM has got to go before he gives Bartkowski a new contract with a no movement clause.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Bring them both back, they've both earned an opportunity to fix things and I don't think there's a a massive upgrade available anyway.

Change for the sake of change is one of my least favorite management techniques.

 
I would normally agree with you, but I thought they needed to fix things after last year and they didn't do it. Montreal embarrassed them, made it clear that the Bruins game couldn't compete with speedy clubs. Now this year's come and gone and it's pretty clear the team needs a serious overhaul and I don't think the current management team should be the ones to do that.
 
The injuries they had this year were unfortunate, but the management team made some pretty poor choices along the way and they didn't adapt their game to the rest of the league's. And Chia's trade of Boychuk was due to his prior decisions putting the club in salary cap hell. And they haven't drafted well at all.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

what if Babcock were available? Would that change your mind?

Not really. I mean, I'd love for Babcock to be the coach, but he's not going to be available and I don't see the point of replacing Claude with him.

Look, there is an upper echelon of coaches in the NHL and Claude is a solid member of that group. The fact that some of you can't see past his failure with Campbell this season doesn't change that.

He's got a .630 win %, 8 playoff appearances and two finals appearances with Boston. You can count on one hand the other coaches in the NHL with that resume and I sure as shit know it's not one of the coaches that will be available this offseason.

 

[bibajesus]

I like krejci and think he is very talented, but i think he is greatly over paid. If you could get a top 2 dman and a pick for him I'd be more than ok with it.

 

[cshea]

Toronto probably gives Babcock a blank check. I don't think he's a realistic option.

I probably lean towards bringing both back, but my hesitation is if there is a riff between Chiarelli and Julien. Reading the tea leaves, seems like there may be one, and in that case someone has to go.

 

[BoSoxFink]

Toronto probably gives Babcock a blank check. I don't think he's a realistic option.

I probably lean towards bringing both back, but my hesitation is if there is a riff between Chiarelli and Julien. Reading the tea leaves, seems like there may be one, and in that case someone has to go.

I can see that too. If that's the case though, doesn't the GM have more control, and thus Julien would be gone?

 

[cshea]

I can see that too. If that's the case though, doesn't the GM have more control, and thus Julien would be gone?

Yeah. The 3 options, IMO are:

1. Both back
2. Both gone
3. Chiarelli stays; Julien fired.

I don't think they can fire Chiarelli and retain Julien.

 

[Titoschew]

I can see that too. If that's the case though, doesn't the GM have more control, and thus Julien would be gone?

 
Yes, but if the call comes from above, then it doesn't matter.  I think Chia got his one eff up with a coach with Lewie.  He might not be afforded the chance to bring in another.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Yeah. The 3 options, IMO are:

1. Both back
2. Both gone
3. Chiarelli stays; Julien fired.

I don't think they can fire Chiarelli and retain Julien.

They can if the next GM is internal.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Why couldn't the Bruins outbid Toronto for Babcock? If he's the guy they want go get him.

 

[Scoops Bolling]

This has been one of the most successful teams in the NHL since Chiarelli took over. The team has a strong core of talent throughout the roster, a decent farm with a number of interesting prospects in the minors, and has shown a willingness to adjust to flaws at an organizational level (see: revamping the scouting department). This year combined injuries to multiple key players, a somewhat unavoidable cap crunch, and bad luck; only one of those is on the management team, and I would say its the most insignificant of the three. To say "fire them all" is somewhere between short sighted and idiotic, and frankly, the idea just screams "we need a scapegoat, because I demand there be someone I can point to and blame". 
 
That said, I do think this offseason provides an opportunity to make a move. I think a guy like Seidenberg can almost certainly be moved; defense is always in short supply, and veterans have a tendency to get overpaid to a degree well above even his contract level. If Savard can be moved, as has been rumored may happen to a team looking to hit the salary floor, the team suddenly has a decent chunk of change to lock up the young defenders long term. I'd also look to explore Lucic's market. His late season resurgence could be valuable, and while he played well with Spooner and Pastrnak, I think Connolly could fill a similar role, and if those three can play together, you've got a second line (with Bergeron's) you can build around long term. I'd like to retain Yeti if his price is reasonable, and given his history, I think that's a possibility. If he is willing to come back cheaply, I might also explore Krecji's market. I'd probably not want to move both him and Lucic, but moving one to get a young defender would seem like a wise reallocation of assets. 

 

[cshea]

They can if the next GM is internal.

In which case, what's the point of sending Chiarelli packing?

Edit: I mean, is elevating Don Sweeney really going to change things?

 

[Dummy Hoy]

In which case, what's the point of sending Chiarelli packing?

I don't necessarily want to move him, but maybe there's a scenario where Pete was the guy that put his foot down on X amount of NMCs, or insisted on moving Seguin when others disagreed, or whatever final decision would be his to make. And he used his leverage, made the wrong call, and now pays for it. 

 

[TFP]

I would have supported Jim Benning being moved up so there is merit. But I don't think Sweeney is the guy.

 

[SpacemanzGerbil]

Interesting graph from twitter on the cap hit of injured players this season.
 
https://twitter.com/lw3h/status/585196975777312768
 
Looks like the Bruins were actually very healthy this past season if you remove Savard's money.

 

[veritas]

Clear them all out. Chia, Claude and the coaching staff, and all the non-crucial guys they can. This team arguably should have been retooled after last season when it was clear they didn't have the speed to keep up with the Montreals of the league. Now they have no choice. Their game looks laughably archaic in comparison to the quality teams of the league.
 
If Bartkowski is on the team next year I'm killing a kitten.

 
They should have blown up the team after winning the Presidents' trophy? Because they lost a 7 game series where they arguably outplayed their opponent and still lost?

 

[NHbeau]

 While I think the GM is a problem and should probably be let go I can see the argument for letting him try to fix this mess. Most of the problem is the roster just doesn't have much talent. Obviously that's on the GM and the front office. That said if you can flip a good deal of the roster and either embrace blowing it up and trying to draft well or settling for a "bridge" year or two while you clear cap space for some free agent talent I think you can get somewhere. Moving guys like Lucic and Krecji for a combination of high picks and some young talent on defense would go a long way to solving some issues. And for fucks sakes stop handing out NMC's to mediocre players.

 

[timlinin8th]

They should have blown up the team after winning the Presidents' trophy? Because they lost a 7 game series where they arguably outplayed their opponent and still lost?

The part that gets me is that they were pretty forward about that season being a GFIN, and that this season may be the infamous bridge year. I remember reading Chiarelli quotes coming in that tbe fourth line would be used this season to inject more speed and youth into the team since the NHL is moving towards being a "faster" league.

Somewhere along the line, very early on even before the season began, they got cold feet with that plan that they had roadmapped out years prior, and we got subjected to Campbell and Paille ad nauseam, who brought nothing to the table and are both as good as gone now. So, we're in the the worst of spaces - didn't make the playoffs and still don't really know if any of what is in Provy will translate up.

I brought this over from the "its your team" thread because I thought its apt:

Paille and Campbell are gone. Completely. We all railed against Julien's decision to constantly defer to those two on the fourth line when it could've been an opportunity to try their younger, faster players against NHL competition. Hell, had Krejci not spent half the year injured, maybe Spooner's 90% on the road to a bust. That decision, whether Julien stays or not, needs to be ripped from his hands like yesterday.

See, for me that should have been THIS season, and I lay that blame at management's feet.

 

[Myt1]

 
I would normally agree with you, but I thought they needed to fix things after last year and they didn't do it. Montreal embarrassed them, made it clear that the Bruins game couldn't compete with speedy clubs. Now this year's come and gone and it's pretty clear the team needs a serious overhaul and I don't think the current management team should be the ones to do that.

Yeah, Montreal embarrassed them to the tune of a seven game series that could have gone the other way if any one of about a billion pucks had gone off the inside of the post instead of the outside.  It sure was clear they couldn't compete.
 
Enough stuff sucked about this season without detouring to Imagination Land.  I don't know how to sing that fucking song anyway.

 

[Scoops Bolling]

 
They should have blown up the team after winning the Presidents' trophy? Because they lost a 7 game series where they arguably outplayed their opponent and still lost?

Seriously. As I said the last time we had this thread, if the Canadians play the Lightning in the playoffs and get swept, should they blow up the team because they can't beat the Lightning? Hockey is like boxing; even the best strategy has its weaknesses, and sometimes a team will match up with you in the worst ways. It happens. You don't blow up your team because you ran into a terrible match up and lost. Hell, that was the worst possible match up for the Bruins, and they still brought it to seven games. But for some bounces in the right direction, and you have a different result, and nobody is talking about it this year.

 

[Scoops Bolling]

 While I think the GM is a problem and should probably be let go I can see the argument for letting him try to fix this mess. Most of the problem is the roster just doesn't have much talent. Obviously that's on the GM and the front office. That said if you can flip a good deal of the roster and either embrace blowing it up and trying to draft well or settling for a "bridge" year or two while you clear cap space for some free agent talent I think you can get somewhere. Moving guys like Lucic and Krecji for a combination of high picks and some young talent on defense would go a long way to solving some issues. And for fucks sakes stop handing out NMC's to mediocre players.

Doesn't have much talent? Compared to who, exactly? They have talent throughout the roster, both established (Bergeron, Krecji, Chara, Rask, etc) and young (Hamilton, Pastrnak, Krug, Spooner, Connolly, etc). Why the fuck would you blow up a 96 point team that lost its #1 center and #1 defender for long stretches, not to mention its young #2 defender for final playoff push? As for the NMCs, we honestly have no idea if there was an alternative. It'd be nice if we didn't have them...could any of those contracts have been signed without them, that we don't know.
 
This forum is honestly the most infuriating on SoSH at this point. It's a lot like BbtL was a few years ago, where people had absolutely no context to their complaints. The Bruins have been awesome to follow since Chia took over. It's as if we've experienced collective amnesia to the long dark stretches this team has seen in the decade and a half before his tenure. The odds we return to that are probably better than the odds we do better than how Chia has done.

 

[kenneycb]

Because Claude hates young players and will send down Spooner and not play Pastrnek.

I don't fire anybody. One more season. If they struggle and shit the bed, heads roll.

 

[Salem's Lot]

I fire the the entire front office. I just don't believe in the building around depth vs building around elite talent philosophy.

 

[kenneycb]

Based on the results of every year outside of this one?

 

[Salem's Lot]

Based on the results of every year outside of this one?

What have they done in the past two seasons to earn another year?

 

[SpacemanzGerbil]

Doesn't have much talent? Compared to who, exactly? They have talent throughout the roster, both established (Bergeron, Krecji, Chara, Rask, etc) and young (Hamilton, Pastrnak, Krug, Spooner, Connolly, etc). Why the fuck would you blow up a 96 point team that lost its #1 center and #1 defender for long stretches, not to mention its young #2 defender for final playoff push? As for the NMCs, we honestly have no idea if there was an alternative. It'd be nice if we didn't have them...could any of those contracts have been signed without them, that we don't know.
 
This forum is honestly the most infuriating on SoSH at this point. It's a lot like BbtL was a few years ago, where people had absolutely no context to their complaints. The Bruins have been awesome to follow since Chia took over. It's as if we've experienced collective amnesia to the long dark stretches this team has seen in the decade and a half before his tenure. The odds we return to that are probably better than the odds we do better than how Chia has done.

I was closer to this than anything throughout most of this season, but I've soured on Chiarelli more recently. I mean, great - you don't know if those contracts could have been signed without the dreaded clauses. The reason those clauses are such a point of contention is that those contracts are now considered poor value and that is certainly under the GM's purview. Chiarelli absolutely must be judged on the value of the contracts he signs players to. He's been here long enough now that his fingerprint is on every contract for all players on the team besides Connelly. He's made some hits but he has some bad value contracts on the roster that are painting him into a smaller and smaller corner, causing the team to dump players in anticipation of future salary requirements. That is not good and he has no one else to shoulder the responsibility onto. If they are going to have to continue to ship Boychucks off in order to fit bad value contracts, that, to me, is unacceptable. If they lose Hamilton this summer to an offer sheet, the fanbase should be apoplectic and with good reason. 
 
Chiarelli has done a lot of good, as you say. The franchise has performed extremely well under his stewardship. Last summer, though, the chickens started coming home to roost and you need to be absolutely sure he's still the guy you want killing unwanted chickens. I think that should be viewed as a valid concern.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

That said, I do think this offseason provides an opportunity to make a move. I think a guy like Seidenberg can almost certainly be moved; defense is always in short supply, and veterans have a tendency to get overpaid to a degree well above even his contract level. If Savard can be moved, as has been rumored may happen to a team looking to hit the salary floor, the team suddenly has a decent chunk of change to lock up the young defenders long term. I'd also look to explore Lucic's market. His late season resurgence could be valuable, and while he played well with Spooner and Pastrnak, I think Connolly could fill a similar role, and if those three can play together, you've got a second line (with Bergeron's) you can build around long term. I'd like to retain Yeti if his price is reasonable, and given his history, I think that's a possibility. If he is willing to come back cheaply, I might also explore Krecji's market. I'd probably not want to move both him and Lucic, but moving one to get a young defender would seem like a wise reallocation of assets. 

Think again.

Someone in the organization told me the team tried to move Seidenberg before his knee injury, and teams weren't interested. I don't think you'll see anyone taking on that albatross now.

 

[veritas]

What have they done in the past two seasons to earn another year?

 
They won the Presidents' Trophy last year. Per wikipedia:
 

 
The Presidents' Trophy is an award presented by the National Hockey League (NHL) to the team that finishes with the most points (i.e. best record) in the league during the regular season

 

[kenneycb]

What have they done in the past two seasons to earn another year?

Why not stretch it to three if we're picking arbitrary years?

 

[Scoops Bolling]

I was closer to this than anything throughout most of this season, but I've soured on Chiarelli more recently. I mean, great - you don't know if those contracts could have been signed without the dreaded clauses. The reason those clauses are such a point of contention is that those contracts are now considered poor value and that is certainly under the GM's purview. Chiarelli absolutely must be judged on the value of the contracts he signs players to. He's been here long enough now that his fingerprint is on every contract for all players on the team besides Connelly. He's made some hits but he has some bad value contracts on the roster that are painting him into a smaller and smaller corner, causing the team to dump players in anticipation of future salary requirements. That is not good and he has no one else to shoulder the responsibility onto. If they are going to have to continue to ship Boychucks off in order to fit bad value contracts, that, to me, is unacceptable. If they lose Hamilton this summer to an offer sheet, the fanbase should be apoplectic and with good reason. 
 
Chiarelli has done a lot of good, as you say. The franchise has performed extremely well under his stewardship. Last summer, though, the chickens started coming home to roost and you need to be absolutely sure he's still the guy you want killing unwanted chickens. I think that should be viewed as a valid concern.

I would be pretty shocked if Hamilton is lost. The team should have the space to keep him barring something truly absurd, particularly as the issues we faced this year were really a one year issue (i.e. Iginla bonus penalties), and the team by all accounts values him as they should. Saying that, how bad is the salary situation entering the offseason? It seems like we should have some space to accomplish some things, particularly if a team trying to hit the cap floor is really willing to take the stupid Savard contract off our hands. I could be convinced otherwise, but I'd like to see an up to date accounting of exactly where the team stands in terms of projected room this offseason.
 

Think again.

Someone in the organization told me the team tried to move Seidenberg before his knee injury, and teams weren't interested. I don't think you'll see anyone taking on that albatross now.

That's interesting. I'd only talked to someone I consider knowledgeable (and I'm not sure if he still has sources in the Boston organization at this point) about Boychuk, not Seidenberg, so my conclusions could be entirely inaccurate.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah, Montreal embarrassed them to the tune of a seven game series that could have gone the other way if any one of about a billion pucks had gone off the inside of the post instead of the outside.  It sure was clear they couldn't compete.
 
Enough stuff sucked about this season without detouring to Imagination Land.  I don't know how to sing that fucking song anyway.

 
They got outplayed in that series, IMO, and their glaring lack of speed was the reason why. It was pretty obvious. Games 6 and 7 were asskickings in terms of the pace of play. Last summer was the time to address the lack of team speed. Many teams in the league were moving to a faster team model and the Bruins weren't following along. And this year the pattern continued: Montreal killed them this season for the same reasons. I mean, we wonder why the Bruins are dead last in PP opportunities, but it's probably pretty simple: they're not fast enough to press the attack against other teams so the opposition can keep up easily and not be pressed into taking penalties.
 
As for people talking about the President's Trophy, who really cares about that? They couldn't get out of the second round in the year they won that thing. It's nothing to brag about when that happens. It's utterly meaningless. Ask Vancouver how great it is to win a President's Trophy.
 
Chia built the 2011 team, but he's also given all those NMC's and extensions and watched the team get old and slow overnight while backing himself into a corner in the process because he's tight against the cap and can't make the necessary moves. Is he still the right guy to rebuild the team? I'm not sure he is. If he and Claude stay on I won't be rending garments about it, but I do think it's time for some fresh perspectives in the management.

 

[timlinin8th]

If they are going to have to continue to ship Boychucks off in order to fit bad value contracts, that, to me, is unacceptable. If they lose Hamilton this summer to an offer sheet, the fanbase should be apoplectic and with good reason. 
 
Chiarelli has done a lot of good, as you say. The franchise has performed extremely well under his stewardship. Last summer, though, the chickens started coming home to roost and you need to be absolutely sure he's still the guy you want killing unwanted chickens. I think that should be viewed as a valid concern.

With the contracts coming off the books, I see no reason why they can't keep Hamilton but I agree with a lot of these points. If you can't sign players without NMCs, maybe you sign other players. Instead, entering this season they were over the cap and HAD to make a move. Now in a vacuum I get why it was Boychuk - there was no way they were going to be able to keep him for next season. In the larger view, however, because they were in a cap crunch and had a number of unmoveable contracts, they probably did not get as much value as they could have if they were able to enter the season with him and assess if they were close enough to truly competing that they should eat it and make a run, or move him closer to the deadline and probably get better value for him.

I would add the Smith contract as another example of questionmarks regarding Chiarelli's management of signings. As an RFA there was no reason to make that signing when he did, and I know a lot of people say its a fair deal but for a team with cap issues it might be one they couldn't afford to make, and his performance wasn't anything really worth offering him more. So maybe you only extend a qualifying offer... No team would be offersheeting Reilly Smith, and if they do you take the compensation.

There are other examples but that is what has me on the fence with this front office, is that their plan seems haphazard.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

It's a bit extreme to fire Claude and Chiarelli for one bad year in the last eight.  I think there's some truth to SJH's argument that they were behind the curve, but is that reason to fire them? I think they have earned a chance to fix the mess... provided they intend to do that.  If their proposed solution to this mess is to double down on past mistakes (extend Campbell, look for more big slow wingers who lack scoring touch, etc) then by all means sweep them out.
 
Firing Chiarelli and keeping Claude is a non-starter - a new GM needs to hire his own coach.  
 
The idea is repeatedly ridiculed, but Chiarelli/Claude Bruins do have a problem developing young talent. Ryan Spooner's recall keyed a turnaround that nearly brought them into the playoffs - yet he was an afterthought who only good a look because Krejci got hurt, the Bruins were desperate for a center who might be able to provide some offense, and they had no other option. If Krejci stays healthy, the Bruins best offensive player down the stretch run doesn't get a look.  That's bad player development, and it hurt them this year.  There are other examples - Torey Krug was instrumental in the 2013 playoff run, yet he was their #9 defenseman in the playoffs and only played because three guys ahead of him, including a dead guy (Wade Redden), got hurt.  As an organization, they are not that good at identifying their best players and actually playing them. 

 

[lexrageorge]

I don't think it's fair to call a team that won the President's Trophy one that needed to be blown up and rebuilt.  Nor was a such a strategy realistic.  A huge part of the cap problem was the dead money charge for the Iginla contract, a contract that was nearly universally applauded last year.  I cannot blame Chiarelli for that one.
 
I cannot blame the management for the injuries to Chara and Krejci and Hamilton either, although the roster was clearly not good enough to absorb those injuries.  I'm also fairly certain that management expected a lot more out of Lucic, Eriksson, Soderberg, and Reilly Smith than what they got; I know I expected more.  The Montreal series did expose the speed issue on the 4th line, and I thought the team would have addressed that better than they did.  Bringing back Caron wasn't the answer, and I said so at the time.
 
Since I mentioned Lucic:  he needs to go before Julien or Chiarelli go.  Milan's paid to score goals, and 18 is nowhere near good enough. It's time to stop using his linemates as excuses for his regression. 
 
Going forward:  they won't have the Iginla overage, and Campbell and Paille are gone (if not, then Chiarelli should be fired).  Hamilton is obviously priority #1, and Chiarelli should be fired if they lose him.  There's not going to be any quick fixes available, but they should be able to improve at the margins, in particular the 4th line.  They also need to integrate some of the younger forwards.  This year's draft will also be vital.  It's truly bizzare that the cap will not increase despite this being the golden era of sports league revenues, but that's also the reality.  So the retool will take some time, and will require patience with some of the younger players.  
 
I also agree it's time to stop harping on the "defensive mistakes" that their skilled young forwards make.  I realize that it's important for coaches to use those mistakes as teachable moments; but giving Campbell playing time that should be going to Pastrnak is not the answer.  I'm usually one defending Julien for such moves, but they happened way to often this season for some reason.  

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

UFAs this summer include:
 
Campbell
Svedberg
Paille
Soderberg
McQuaid
Bartkowski
 
Hamilton, Spooner, and Connolly all need extensions.
 
That's a ton of work. The opportunity to remake the team is right here. The UFAs by and large are slow afoot. If it were me, I'd let all the UFAs walk except Soderberg, who I'd try to resign (no idea if they can do that though). Where will they get the cap space to extend the three young guys? I might try to trade Lucic for cap relief; I like him overall but his scoring touch comes and goes and he's kind of a plodder and he's going to be due a big pay raise after next year.
 
A lot of this talk may well be academic: given Charlie Jacobs' statements from earlier this year, I would be surprised with Chia and Claude aren't fired.
 

 
I also agree it's time to stop harping on the "defensive mistakes" that their skilled young forwards make.  I realize that it's important for coaches to use those mistakes as teachable moments; but giving Campbell playing time that should be going to Pastrnak is not the answer.  I'm usually one defending Julien for such moves, but they happened way to often this season for some reason. 

 
Completely agree. There's a fine line between holding them accountable for defensive lapses and making them tentative about them, and sometimes I think it veers too much towards the latter. I wonder if that's one of the reasons Smith went through such horrendous slumps this year, although of course it's just guessing from our end.

 

[Toe Nash]

Reposting from the closed thread and adding a bit:
 
My main criticism of Claude is that he sticks too much with "his guys" and they tend to be "tough" defense-first guys who don't do too much to create offense (Campbell, Miller, McQuaid). At the same time guys whose primary skills are offensive (Spooner, Pastrnak) seemed to get criticized / benched way more for any defensive shortcomings than the defense-first guys get punished or called out for their offensive shortcomings.
 
Kevan Miller is a great example; he can't make a pass to save his life and may be the worst NHL skater I've ever seen (hyperbole), but he hits people and does some decent work defensively so he gets to play, even when he has one usable arm. Meanwhile no one in Providence gets a chance nor does someone get traded for even when the team is desperate for offense and desperate for the playoffs. When injuries force them to recall Trotman he generally looks competent, albeit in sheltered ice time, and scores a key goal.
 
Pointing to Claude's overall record doesn't really tell you that much. Yes, he's produced good results overall. But he has had the best defensive center in the league, a HoF d-man and top 5 goaltending his entire tenure. That's a big head start. And in the last two years his teams have come just short in a number of games that could have gotten them further, and come out flat when they needed it most (game 7 last year, the last few games this year). A key coaching decision or three could have turned things.
 
But it can't just be Claude -- Chia is the person making these moves even if Claude is the one playing Campbell too often. Chia could just release Campbell at any point (as PSK suggested) and they'd be forced to play someone else. Likely, there is a combination of voices that is leading them to overvalue these players.
 
So, should they fire everyone? Well, I'd like to think people can learn from their failures and both CJ and PC have obviously done a number of good things. If they are "retooling" that doesn't worry me -- Chia's draft record is actually not that bad if you take into account draft position, UDFA signings like Krug and Miller (ignoring my criticism earlier, he isn't a completely useless player, though he may be on one arm). Pastrnak seems like a hit as well -- maybe the change in scouting is paying off. But they need to get over their emphasis on toughness above all else and start making some better moves on the edges, because their long-term deals for their "core" is giving them very little margin for error.

 

[Toe Nash]

Fluto points out one consideration re: firing Julien: he has that extension that kicks in this off-season, "believed to be one of the highest salaries in the league." I don't think NHL coaches make a ton, but it's something depending on how much money is really involved.

 

[Reardon's Beard]

Like I said the other night, I do not think you can break up this management group as a result of this season. If you consider the body of work they've put together over the last several years they have been incredibly successful. What would you rather do, roll the dice one more year and see how things work out with a group that has proven to be successful? Or shake up the entire mixture and see what happens?
 
The heart might say time to mix it up, but the head is smarter than that. This year sucked across the board, but this course of events can make the organization bigger, faster, and stronger from top to bottom. They've proven they can adapt and learn from mistakes in the past, I see no reason they won't right the ship going into 2015-2016.

 

[Toe Nash]

 They've proven they can adapt and learn from mistakes in the past, I see no reason they won't right the ship going into 2015-2016.

How have they proven that? They made a bunch of solid moves after 2010 but they had cap space to work with as some of their best players were making peanuts.
 
Since then they've largely extended that team (making everyone expensive), and the one big team-changing move they made is basically a failure. They have $46.4m tied up in their top 8 cap hits. In 10-11 it was $37m, and only Chara's was long-term.
 
I don't think they have faced a challenge this big. I'm not saying they can't rise to the challenge, but these decisions are much harder than "Should we sign Bergeron to a $6.5m cap hit?"

 

[lexrageorge]

How have they proven that? They made a bunch of solid moves after 2010 but they had cap space to work with as some of their best players were making peanuts.
 
Since then they've largely extended that team (making everyone expensive), and the one big team-changing move they made is basically a failure. They have $46.4m tied up in their top 8 cap hits. In 10-11 it was $37m, and only Chara's was long-term.
 
I don't think they have faced a challenge this big. I'm not saying they can't rise to the challenge, but these decisions are much harder than "Should we sign Bergeron to a $6.5m cap hit?"

I believe most of us would have expected the salary cap to grow by at least that $9M difference by now.  The fact that is hasn't speaks volumes to the league's incompetence, not the team's.  

 

[Toe Nash]

I believe most of us would have expected the salary cap to grow by at least that $9M difference by now.  The fact that is hasn't speaks volumes to the league's incompetence, not the team's.  

That's neither here nor there. The cap is what it is and that makes the job that much tougher.
 
You could also say that they should have planned for this possibility and had a better exit strategy than trading a top-4 D-man.

 

[McBride11]

I don't think Chia or Julien should go. 1 bad year doesn't rule out the last 8. This year had the Iginla overage and of course Savard hurting the cap situation. We outplayed Montreal and lost because we couldn't put the damn puck in the net. We almost won the Cup the year before. The drafting has been sub par recently, though it seems they changed the scouting dept some and the more recent drafts have been better.
 
Lines and cost for next year along with when contract ends. Bold = re-sign. strikethru = gone (hope the formatting is decipherable)
 
Lucic (6m, ufa 2016) - Spooner (ufa) - Pasta (925, rfa 2017)
Marchand (4.5, rfa 2017) - Bergy (6.5, 2022) - Smith (3.4, rfa 2017)
Loui (4.25, rfa 2016) - krejci (7.25, ufa 2021) - soderberg (ufa)* for a reasonable deal
campbell (ufa) - kelly (3, ufa 2016) - paille (ufa)
talbot (875, ufa 2016)
connolly (rfa)
 
chara (6.9, ufa 2019) - seids (4, ufa 2018)
mcquad (ufa) - krug (3.4, rfa 2016)
dougie (rfa) - bart (ufa)
morrow (863, rfa 2017) - trotman (625, rfa 2017)
 
rask (7, ufa 2021)
svedberg (rfa)
 
LTIR Savard (4, ufa 2017)
No more Iginla cap penalty (4.7)
 
That leaves lines of (these can be shuffled, just bodies right now)
L-S-P
M-B-S
E - Krejci - S
T - Kelly - C
 
Char - seids
Dougie - krug
McQ - Trot
Morrow
 
Not going to get into the potential trades of Seids (good luck w that contract) or Lucic (possible). But if we simply re-sign Connolly, Spooner, and Soderberg we have 12F under contract. Soderberg clearly needs to be a friendly deal, will he stay for under 3? Signing dougie (must) and mcQ (maybe) gives us 6D (presuming Trotman can hold his own).
 
The cap is projected at 73m. Based upon the above (prior to re-signings) the Bs are at 59m. They do have some room to work in the off season. I think a good chunk of change goes to Dougie while hopefully Connolly (needs to prove himself) and Spooner (ditto) can be had for reasonable deals.
 
If there truly is a rift between Clode and Chia, then we may have to re-evaluate the situation.
 
cap stats: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=BOS
cap projection: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=743047

 

[burstnbloom]

I like to think I'm coming to this discussion from a somewhat rational place, but I have to admit, the disappointment I feel this year is palpable.   I believe Chia should and does get another shot.  He has been a very strong executive in his tenure here and he has made a number of savvy moves.  His poor ones are well documented but I believe the fan base has been a little myopic in their criticism of them.   I see Chia as a guy who is willing to admit his mistakes (Dave Lewis - fired after 1 year, The draft - overhaulled the scouting staff, Seguin - tried to move him for a premier player) and move on.  You can argue the results of those moves for days, but the reality is, he's not the "evaluator" that he is being made out to be.  I think everyone acknowledged that this year would be a bit of a grind due to the GFIN moves last year.  I think the disappointment comes out of the effort given, not the talent level. 
 
That brings me to my second point.  I believe Claude is gone, and he should be.  I don't think he deserves it though.  It is maddening how he overlooks the obvious mistakes by "his guys" and holds other players to a different standard, but that is not why this team didn't make the playoffs.  This team struggled this year due to lack of preparation and lack of effort.  How many times did we question how they could be so sloppy in important games?  That is on the players.  They are responsible for their effort, but if we get to the point where the team is not responding emotionally to a coach, then you have to move on.  The sad part about that statement is that Claude will catch on somewhere else and have a Barry Trotz-esque effect on a team that needs a new coach.   I also don't believe that there is another coach out there that is "better" than Claude, but there is a good part of this team that has tuned him out. 
 
Now, to where my vitriol is really deserved.  This team needs a major shakeup.  All of the UFA's should be gone.  There is no redeeming value in any of them except Carl (luxury) and McQuaid (but he will be too expensive for what he brings).  Paille, Campbell and Bart are gone.  They absolutely need to resign Dougie, Spooner and Connolly.  All three are bright spots and seem to have some significant future value.  I'd certainly try to clear some space by getting rid of the dead weight like Seidenberg and Kelly.  This team needs a major influx of talent on defense and that is going to cost a lot in terms of assets and cap space. 
 
The shake up is going to come at the expense of some of the guys that have important roles on this team.  I'm a big Loui supporter, but I think he has a significant amount of value and should be looked at as a trade asset.  I also think moving Lucic could really shake up the dynamic of this team.  The issue is how to reshape the team.  I think it depends on what kind of players are out there for you when you dangle those types of players.  I'd love to dangle Lucic and a guy like Morrow for a young 2 way defenseman that has some term on his deal.  
 
I just think its going to take a couple of years to reshape this group because of the stagnating cap and the lack of high end assets because of bad drafts.