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Discussion in 'Rick Middleton's Pron 'Stache: Bruins Forum' started by RedOctober3829, May 6, 2018.
Rask is starting tomorrow night vs. Rangers.
The team nipped it in the bud. Cassidy essentially laughed it off saying he had no idea where the story originated (I think it was the Marchand joke) and he couldn’t recall McAvoy ever being late to anything.
That said, Haggs and KPD probably already have a “McAvoy’s a bad apple” column draft written for the next time Charlie has a bad game.
It might be time for a few pro-Charlie puff pieces from some team friendly media people before he gets sick of this crap and wants out at contract time. God I fucking hate the media in this town.
You know that weird aunt some people have? The one that shows up at some family event only once every few years, and somehow finds out a younger relative likes "race cars" or "baseball" and then sends him a specifically themed gift every birthday for 12 years despite the kid not being into that thing past age 7?
That's the media with controversy. They know there was one, but they don't care about finding out about any further information, because that requires work. Lazy hack shit-slinging takes 5% of the effort and gets 75% of the reads.
Cehlarik returned to Providence. Not sure why, to be honest. Is it just due to the time off? Keep him playing?
Yes and likely to allow him to play in the AHL All Star game.
Ah, that makes sense.
....and we’re back!
Flurry of activity here.
Rask is on IR with a concussion, McIntyre is up. Donato and JFK sent to Providence, Frederic and Cehlarik up.
With the dust settled:
Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak
Cehlarik - Krejci - DeBrusk
Heinen - Frederic - Backes
Kuraly - Acciari - Wagner
Chara - McAvoy
Krug - Carlo
Grzelyck - Miller
Moore - Kampfer
Frederic posted 10g, 7a in 37 AHL games, though he has been hot recently with 4g 6a in his last 12 games. It seems reasonable to give him an opportunity, I don’t think JFK did anything to lock down the job. Added bonus of showcasing prior to the deadline in a few weeks. I’m a little surprised by Donato’s demotion, but they’re going to give Cehlarik a look and with Nordstrom back, there was little room. I suspect he’ll be back shortly.
Any timetable on Rask's concussion?
I've seen Frederic enough in Providence that I'm excited about seeing him in Boston. Skating with Backes is interesting since I think there is a decent comparable for Frederic to a younger Backes. Similar size and makeup. 200 foot player willing to throw his body around the ice.
I wrote that and then checked their AHL stats. Meaningless, but mildly interesting in the similarity. Backes was almost 2 years older than Frederic when he hit the AHL.
Backes: 43GP 15-8-23 57 PIMS
Frederic: 50GP 15-10-25 58 PIMS
Concussions are dicey, but it seems he is close. Cassidy thinks Thursday is a possibility.
Well that's a relief, I suppose.
Frederic was really disappointing to start the season, but apparently has really turned it on lately. I’m excited to see him get some NHL time. He’s still very young though, about to turn 21. So even if he struggles at first in the NHL I don’t think we should be writing him off.
For some context, he’s been outplayed by guys like Colby Cave and Gemel Smith in the AHL this year so it’s not realistic to expect him to be an immediate impact player
JFK and Donato are both skating with the Bruins still, while the AHL is on it's all star break
Rask skated today, is still a possibility for Thursday.
Nordstrom is cleared to play but they want him to get some more practice time in.
McQuaid played his 25th game for the Rangers tonight so I believe that nets the B’s a 7th round pick.
Maybe it could be the next Byfuglien, Zetterberg, Pavelski, or Lundqvist. Not likely, but you never know.
Frederic made the news here in Brazil:
Hockey is never in the news here, but the combination of him fighting in his first game and, specially, his mom and dad cheerfully celebrating the fight made it interesting.
And people want to take fighting out of the game...
More Papa Freddy:
Had some cool moments with debuts recently, Jake and Louie last year and now Trent and his parents.
I was trying to think of other Bruins players that have gotten in a fight in their NHL debut. The only 2 I could come up with are Lucic and Bobby Robbins.
Clayton Pachal back in the 70's. 1 game 12 PIM. I remember watching the game on WSBK
B’s getting linked to Panarin by just about everyone. What’s the highest price people would pay? I figure the Kovalchuk deal from years ago is the closest comparable. That was a 1st, Johnny Oduya, Nic Bergfors, Patrice Cormier. That’s got to be the template. Oduya was a 29 year old NHL D under contracts, Bergfors a rookie 4 years removed from being a 1st round draft pick, and Cormier a whack job of a prospect (2nd round pick 2 years prior). NJ eventually got Kovalchuk extended too.
I’m personally a little gun shy on trading for a rental, so before forking over a huge package, I’d want the ability to talk to his agent about an extension and get some idea about is willingness to sign long term in Boston. CBJ is in a weird spot. Their Athletic writer today (Potzline) posted an article where he thinks they would ideally like to get a top 6 forward, but that is an unlikely return from the Panarin buyers, so the would also likely accept futures and then flip some of those futures in a separate “buy” deal.
My thought on a deal would be Grzelyck, Donato or prospect of CBJ’s choosing, then maybe a Zboril/Senyshyn B prospect filler type and finally a conditional first round pick where the pick conveys if he signs an extension.
Seems like a lot, but also feels like that wouldn’t be enough.
In a dream world you include Backes and his bloated contract and hope they bite (even it includes making the 1st guaranteed).
Backes probably wouldn’t waive his no-move. I think they’ll try to deal with that in the summer.
With Backes, still befuddling that the B's continue to overpay various people AND still give them an NMC as well. The excessive salary should buyout the NMC.
It becomes a 15 team no trade after 7/1/19.
I wouldn’t give up Donato to rent Panarin. Grzelcyk, Heinen, And a 2nd that becomes a 1st if he re-signs is as far as I’d go. And someone will likely beat that.
If Donato would close the deal, I think the B's would do it. I don't think they see him improving at all in the things he needs to improve in. I'd rather move him than Grzelcyk, who seems to get better by the month. (I get that the proposal is not either/or. I'd just hate to lose Grz.)
I like Grzelcyk as well, but he is what he is at this point. A 25 year old, undersized, 3rd pairing defenseman on a good team. They have plenty of those guys in the system with more upside. Donato may be a tool guy, but it’s a pretty important tool that they don’t have a lot of. I don’t want to trade a guy with that skill set for a rental.
I'd move Heinen, a 2nd that becomes a first if Panarin signs and Zboril or Senyshyn +. I really like Grz and see him as a potential Krug replacement if he leaves as a FA.
No matter how many times I say it, someone else thinks Gryz and Krug are comparable. Krug was a 40 point player at age 22. 50 point player at 25. Grzlcyk had 15 points at age 24 last year and slightly ahead of that this year. They’re not remotely comparable as players.
Grzlcyk is never making the pass Krug just made on Pasta’s goal.
This is 100% accurate. Gryz is a fine player. He’s not nearly in the same offensive universe as Krug. Krug is a 60 point defenseman, with ok defensive ability.
As for Panarin, I would imagine they want DeBrusk in return. I wonder how other teams view Donato. The scoring is there, but I would be curious to see how high he was valued. If Panarin would re-sign, I would find a way to do the deal. Unless it was almost straight up, I wouldn’t include DeBrusk. Interesting if the Bruins are really in on it, as I would imagine the price would be extremely high.
Panarin is a difference maker though. He’s the only type of player that could really bring them on par with Tampa or Toronto offensively.
Where to even start here...
edit: was speaking generally, the realness’ post right before mine was pretty spot on
Neely and Sweeney have to figure out right now if this team is worth investing in with a move. The only problem is, all of the prospects that we were high on coming into the season have all dropped in value. I’m not even sure they could make a move for a Panarin right now.
The Bruins played over their heads last year with a number of improbable comebacks. They have one line. Any team can catch playoff lightning in a bottle with a goalie that gets hot for a solid month and a half, but there’s no reason to believe that Rask is that goalie, especially in the playoffs, given his past five years or so of statistics. And Halak has turned into enough of a pumpkin that they’re not going to be able to spell Rask enough to try to make him something other than what he is in the playoffs, which I think may have been the hope.
The sunk cost of whatever the Bergeron/Chara window is doesn’t warrant making a real move to sacrifice the future for the marginal benefit now, even if the Bruins has the assets to pull such a trade off.
This, exactly. I will just add that if Krug had the wheels and defensive game of Grzelcyk, along with his (Krug's) offense, I think he'd be a perennial All-Star.
It bums me out, but I'm inclined to agree. I think they're a very good team, and could knock off Toronto or a Metro team, but they aren't winning 16 games this spring.
The Bruins are 4th in the Eastern Conference, only 1 point behind the Leafs. They would be only 2 points out of the division lead for the Metro, and the Islanders are not a juggernaut by any means. The team has solid blue line depth, which is something that becomes very helpful in the playoffs. Far less accomplished goalies than Rask have gone on playoff runs (think Cam Ward). And while Tampa looks unbeatable, upsets and injuries happen in the playoffs; it would not be totally unheard of for a team like the Caps or Habs to knock off the Lightning in a first round series. Unlikely, but not impossible in the NHL either.
If they can resign him, Panarin offers both a short- and long-term solution to the one line problem. Far more immediate and certain return than waiting on prospects or future draft picks. The Bergy/Chara/Marchand window will not be open forever, so I don't mind them pushing a bit. Panarin is a far more exciting acquisition than other names that have been bandied about.
What is the plan then?
Post Bergeron/Marchand they are a zero line team with really just Pastrnak/Charlie Mac/DeBrusk and the jury is still out on DeBrusk ceiling. They screwed the pooch in the 2015 draft where they could have set themselves up to be contenders for another decade. Instead they reached on Senyshyn and it burnt them badly.
They have no can't miss prospects that look like they could be difference makers any time soon. TB/TOR are both younger than BOS so its not like they can wait them out.
I'd give up any package of prospects and a 1st for Panarin. Give them a fighters chance and hopefully convince him to resign. He would give them another finisher they sorely lack. He'd immediately make Krej much better and probably DeBrusk as well.
As is stands today the post Bergeron window is a door that is shut closed. They will likely need a few down years to load up on some young talent via high picks.
That said any package that doesn't include DeBrusk is probably easily topped by a number of teams. If you move DeBrusk I don't think the marginal upgrade makes them a serious contender.
They’ve got the foundation in place to make a run. They’ve got elite defense, top end goaltending, an elite top line an PP. If they can make the right additions, I think they can make a run. Tampa is a close to a super team as there is in the NHL, but I’d give the Bruins a fighting chance against anyone else.
They need depth scoring. It is not a secret. They knew they needed in the offseason. They tried to bring back Rick Nash. When that failed they pivoted to Ilya Kovalchuk. When that failed it was on to the Tavares Hail Mary. When that failed they pivoted to...John Moore and hoped the kids at forward could buy them time. The kids haven’t really taken a step forward or provided solutions, but the team is still in the thick of it despite the roster shortcomings and the injuries.
I’m leery of adding a rental. My worry is they send assets out for a rental, then find themselves in the same spot heading into next year. I would hope that If they can add a Panarin/Stone/Duchene they’d be able to extend the player. Otherwise I’d be shopping around for players with term.
Problem is no teams are going to trade good players on good contracts unless they are getting comparable assets back of which the B's don't have much to offer. No one is making a Seguin or Hamilton trade at the deadline. Those types of trades happen in the off-season because there are more buyers thus higher costs.
They're very different players, but Grz is really good. An absolute monster in the neutral zone.
I agree with all of this.
The "Chara window" closed a long time ago. It's the Bergeron window that is closing soon that they need to worry about
Yep, this is about where I fall. They should be looking to add and to make a run, but in no way do I want to give up a lot of pieces for a pure rental. Either look for a cheaper rental (Simmonds?) or get someone with term. Easier said than done of course.
I was just responding to the idea that Grz could "replace" Krug. He has no shot to do that. Frankly I don't think McAvoy could replace what Krug brings, but there's at least a shot of that happening since he's so young. I think Grz is a good player and a useful piece to have, but his presence has zero impact on my opinion of whether they should keep Krug.
Personally - Krug is a fantastic value right now. Another bargain contract for the Bruins just behind Bergeron/Pasta/Marchand. I'd definitely keep him this year, then decide what they want to do with him long term in the offseason. He's the type of player and contract you need to try win the Cup in the next 2 years.
I really don’t get the love for Krug. Yes he’s a very good offensive defenseman, but he’s almost equally a defensive liability. He’s small, not very tough, and continues to keep both teams in the game. A very tradeable commodity for this team, given the young guys they already have on defense and the next ones coming up.
Krug is elite in the offensive zone, one of the top few defensemen in the league creating chances there. TFP is correct, they don't have anyone who can replace that, not even close. He does give a lot of it back, but when deployed the way he is, with heave zone starts and PP usage, he's a pretty big net positive IMO.
How good enough of a center would they need to get back to break even? That's a really tough question to answer. I do know that if the 3rd line was producing like it did last season, we wouldn't be worried about this team. And I suspect the power play wouldn't take a huge hit without him, but again that's a tough question to answer. The WOWY stats on the PP are hard to suss meaningful information out of because of the huge difference in QoT between the 1st and 2nd units. Anecdotally, I think the power play was still pretty good when he was injured. And he seems to give up a ton of high danger SH chances.
He's also the type of player I'd err on the side of getting rid of a year early than a year late.
Pierre McGuire was on TSN radio last night pushing a Bruins-Rangers rumor that everyone in the league according to Pierre is aware of. Mentioned Kevin Hayes specifically, along with an unnamed roster player.
Not sure how I feel about another Hayes coming here, although clearly Kevin is much better than his brother.
For example, that Krejci goal...
Fluto has a piece up on The Athletic which hypothesizes on the CBJ ask from the Bruins in a Panarin deal. The verdict was a 1st, high end prospect, lower tier prospect. He ended up spitting out 1st, Donato or Vaakanainen and Trent Frederic.
That is...steep. Especially for a rental.
It is steep. But it fills a giant hole in this year's team without creating another. (And, admittedly, I'm not real high on Donato).
Vaakanainen should be untouchable for a rental. Donato, Frederic and a 1st sounds pretty reasonable to me though.