Brissett traded to Colts for WR Phillip Dorsett

BigMike

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Sep 26, 2000
23,244
JB's nice performance against the 3rd string G-men probably boosted the return but I'm a little surprised that a DE wasn't the target.
Well then you need a team that is desperate for a QB, and willing to give up someone who can help you on the DL

Dorsett is an interesting gamble. Not quite sure what the story is on him. Obviously he has been considered an epic bust so far, but maybe the Past will find a way to use his speed in space a bit more. I don't expect him to come here and become a great WR, but maybe he does become a big play threat, who helps create some space for the better WRs on the team
 

Pandemonium67

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
5,575
Lesterland
I think a competent backup DE is likely to be found in some team's discard bin, while a WR with elite speed like Dorsett doesn't come along as often.

This also addresses the need for a returner (assuming BB sees him that way) and adds to a WR corp that has an aging, recuperating Edelman, an aging, injury-prone Amendola, and a gimpy-kneed Mitchell.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,105
If they don't pick up a 3rd QB, can we assume that the just would have ended up cutting Brissett?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
I'm surprised so many people here are assuming this isn't TB12's last season.

I mean, isn't that obviously the Occam's Razor answer to "why didn't the Pats move JG to Cleveland for 3 2nd round picks?
I think the Occam's Razor answer is that you have a 40 yo QB and the coach valued having a suitable backup for him more than 3 2nd round picks and / or the Browns never actually had that offer on the table. As someone else said, next year will take of next year. Seems a leap in logic to me that he default conclusion is Brady is retiring, when all other factors point against that.
 

vadertime

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
1,600
Rhode Island
Seems like a waste. Returns have become greatly devalued with the new kickoff rules, and he seems like someone that will be cut next training camp when Edelman is back. You're trading a 3rd string QB so it's not a big deal, but I would've hoped for something a little more. Given how all it takes guys to learn the offense, I don't think you can count on him there this year either. Just seems like a weird trade to make.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
This is hilarious. Hang another banner.

Post of the pre-season, by Mike Florio at PFT:

"Seriously, who the hell keeps track of the best preseason performances in NFL history? The preseason is glorified practice, and no one remembers practice. Given that Brissett’s passer rating was 121.8, which is more than 25 points below a perfect rating, it’s safe to assume that many other quarterbacks have had better preseason quarterback performances over the years.

Making the effort to hype Brissett even more laughable are the broader circumstances on the quarterback depth chart in Indy. With no one knowing when Andrew Luck will be back and Scott Tolzien apparently the starter (unless Brissett abruptly bumps him to the bench) and the Colts making no effort to upgrade the position until eight days before the season opener, the Colts are sitting on a potential mess, largely of their own making.

That said, it could be worse. The Colts could have done something really embarrassing, like hang a banner for simply getting to the AFC title game. Oops."
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Hmm, hope this isn't CJ all over again. From Reiss: "[Dorsett] hadn't met first-round expectations in Indianapolis as a receiver or returner. In his first game as a rookie in 2015, he muffed two punts, losing one. The Colts didn't use him as a returner again."

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4805358/two-years-after-projected-in-mock-draft-phillip-dorsett-lands-with-pats
And if you can't put your faith in Indy's special teams coaches, who can you trust?
 

axx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,126
I will say that the Patriots don't really need a third string QB this year. The odds of Brady and Jimmy both getting hurt is pretty low, and they are pretty much screwed anyway if that were to happen. If they really feel like they need a third QB there are several crappy QBs that just got cut. Just sign one to the min.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
I will say that the Patriots don't really need a third string QB this year. The odds of Brady and Jimmy both getting hurt is pretty low, and they are pretty much screwed anyway if that were to happen. If they really feel like they need a third QB there are several crappy QBs that just got cut. Just sign one to the min.
And if one gets hurt and is out a week or two?
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,851
You're trading a 3rd string QB so it's not a big deal, but I would've hoped for something a little more.
A little more than a first round pick that the woeful Colts couldn't get anything out of? The same Colts that traded a 1st round pick for Trent Richardson?
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
And if you can't put your faith in Indy's special teams coaches, who can you trust?
I would draw few if any inferences from past performance in the steaming pile that is Indy.

That said, on this planet, the bust rate of WRs drafted in round 1 is equaled or exceeded only by the bust rate of two-year old race horses.

Both sides went into this with eyes wide open, the Colts' ridiculous press release notwithstanding.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I would draw few if any inferences from past performance in the steaming pile that is Indy.

That said, on this planet, the bust rate of WRs drafted in round 1 is equaled or exceeded only by the bust rate of two-year old race horses.

Both sides went into this with eyes wide open, the Colts' ridiculous press release notwithstanding.
Perhaps my joke was too subtle?
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
This is the version of that play that you're required to post per BBTL rules.

 

Section15Box113

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2005
8,914
Inside Lou Gorman's Head
With a need at DT in 2015, Indianapolis watched Brown fall right to them - only to pick Dorsett at #29 instead. And, as mentioned, Reiss had linked Dorsett to NE at #32.

Now Belichick has both. Like it.
 

sheamonu

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 11, 2004
1,342
Dublin, Ireland
Pats just traded someone who, while better than many teams' backup, was unlikely to play a down this year, for a player who will (at least as a return man) be on the field every game. It's a bottom of the roster swap where they get the more immediate return and the Colts get the better insurance. Big picture - the Colts probably just dodged some heat for not signing Kaepernick. That could very well have been a significant motivation on their part.
 

Pandemonium67

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
5,575
Lesterland
Perhaps my joke was too subtle?

No it was perfect. That's in the pantheon of all-time plays, not far from the butt fumble.

Back on point, with Cooks and now Dorsett, JMcD will have to call a doctor once the four hours pass. I know it's far from every receiver that pans out with NE, but this move has me irrationally excited.
 
Last edited:

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
I think this must mean the Patriots were likely to cut him. The Colts gave away very little, from their perspective. The addition of Kamar Aiken made Dorset expendable on their end. Maybe Belichick loves Dorsett. More likely, this looks like a team that found a dance partner that allowed them to get something instead of nothing.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,751
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
The Patriots went into the 2009 season with Brady one year removed from ACL/MCL reconstruction and UDFA Brian Hoyer as their only quarterbacks. I'm not sure why people are so surprised that they're keeping only two players at that position, they've done it before.

The most likely explanation is that Brissett simply wasn't performing all that well in training camp and they chose to sell high on him after a very good performance in a meaningless preseason game. I know at the very least Andy Hart and Paul Perillo had been saying that Jacoby had a disappointing camp and didn't really evolve as a quarterback in the way you would expect in his second year in the system. They needed a receiver and a PR/KR. Austin Carr is another guy that some beat writers have talked about not being overly impressive in the practice field and Lucien is still developing. Makes sense.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
I think this must mean the Patriots were likely to cut him. The Colts gave away very little, from their perspective. The addition of Kamar Aiken made Dorset expendable on their end. Maybe Belichick loves Dorsett. More likely, this looks like a team that found a dance partner that allowed them to get something instead of nothing.
Agreed. About the only inference I'd make is that the coaches didn't feel JB was developing into a viable NFL quarterback. Not sure how much of a lock Dorsett even is to be on the team
 

heavyde050

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2006
11,257
San Francisco
The obvious stuff that's been discussed ad naseum elsewhere. I think Belichick will take 26 year old Jimmy and his future over 41 year old Tom Brady and his.
That is a little disingenuous to call Brady 41 next year and Jimmy G only 26. Jimmy will turn 27 two months into the season. He was born November of 1991. He will be 26 this November (2017 season)
I know he will still be 26 when the season starts, but if one is going to age Brady (born in August), one should also age Jimmy.
If BB found a way to keep Jimmy 26 forever though, I am all-in.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,592
Here
That is a little disingenuous to call Brady 41 next year and Jimmy G only 26. Jimmy will turn 27 two months into the season. He was born November of 1991. He will be 26 this November (2017 season)
I know he will still be 26 when the season starts, but if one is going to age Brady (born in August), one should also age Jimmy.
If BB found a way to keep Jimmy 26 forever though, I am all-in.
Ok, twenty six and ten months then. Does that change the equation much at all? Brady's not staying 41 forever either.
 

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
20,671
The cradle of the game.
Obtain a guy with an exceptional football skill for a guy with no exceptional football skills. Sounds like a classic BB move to me.
 

heavyde050

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2006
11,257
San Francisco
Ok, twenty six and ten months then. Does that change the equation much at all? Brady's not staying 41 forever either.
I agree with your overall premise that BB will probably go with Jimmy and his youth (albeit lesser current talent) over Brady at some point in the near future (and it will be a sad day).
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,505
I understand there's more to it than this, but: Per all media reports and various trusted eye ball tests, Tom Brady remains LEAGUES better than Garoppolo. Not just "clearly superior," but better by a shit ton. In games, in practices, every context.

So while it very well may be true that BB opts, at some point, for ten years of Jimmy G over the uncertainty of a 40+ year old TB12, it's not nearly close enough now to think that it'll be close enough anytime in the near future.

Edit autocorrect bullshit.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,567
I love the efficient use of resources, and this is a high reward move, but would have preferred they traded JG to the browns for the pauper's ransom instead, just before the draft. This means they'll have to keep KG at a very high salary for a player who's hopefully not going to play for the near future. Thankfully pretty much everyone else on the team is signed at team-friendly deals so they can afford to this under the cap.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,300
deep inside Guido territory
I love the efficient use of resources, and this is a high reward move, but would have preferred they traded JG to the browns for the pauper's ransom instead, just before the draft. This means they'll have to keep KG at a very high salary for a player who's hopefully not going to play for the near future. Thankfully pretty much everyone else on the team is signed at team-friendly deals so they can afford to this under the cap.
Or they let Jimmy walk and they go in another direction at backup QB. Tom Curran and others said not to infer this move had anything to do with Jimmy's situation. I still have a hard time believing they'll commit that much money to the QB position.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,090
A Scud Away from Hell
Umm, are we sure that Dorsett is going to be strictly a vertical threat?

His 3-cone drill score was 4th among all WRs in 2015. That's ahead of Amari Cooper (drafted 4th) and Kevin White (drafted 7th):

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2015&workout=THREE_CONE_DRILL&position=WR

Matt Kelley -- a Patriots fan who runs the highly entertaining RotoUnderWorld YouTube channel had this to say in 2016:


So, even though he's been labeled a "bust" by many, Dorsett is explosive off the line of scrimmage, has decent route-running, (according to James White--his college teammate) is "hard working", is a willing (if not always successful) blocker, and by all reports is coachable with no off-field concerns.

What's scary here is that in the Pats system Cooks and Dorsett can both play the slot and outside on any given formation. The safeties have to respect the speed too. If there's any room in the middle because of that, Gronk/Allen/Name-Your-Pass-Catching-RB can eat up the middle.

That's my uneducated take. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Apr 7, 2006
2,505
My take is that I pray you're right. Also, that I hope Dorsett has the football IQ enough to handle and learn the system fairly quickly.
 

SumnerH

Malt Liquor Picker
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,900
Alexandria, VA
Umm, are we sure that Dorsett is going to be strictly a vertical threat?

His 3-cone drill score was 4th among all WRs in 2015
...
What's scary here is that in the Pats system Cooks and Dorsett can both play the slot and outside on any given formation.
...
That's my uneducated take. Thoughts?
I think the thought isn't that Dorsett doesn't have the physical skills to run other routes, but that coming in at this late point he's going to be handicapped by not knowing the Pats' system and will consequently be stuck running a handful of simple routes at least at the outset.

I don't think he'll just be out there running fly routes all day (if that's all he can do, he'll get very few snaps), but I do expect his options to be somewhat limited out of the gate. Hopefully he's a quick learner and adds to the playbook over the course of the season.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
I'm not expecting much from Dorsett but it would be great if we got at least one bomb TD out of him, just to piss off Colts fans. I do like the speed that he brings, especially if Cooks misses any time. We haven't this kind of collective speed at WR in a decade so it will be interesting to see if the Pats go more vertical this year.

I do wonder what we would have done with Brissett had Edelman not gotten hurt. Trade for another young reclamation project at a different position? Trade for 5th round pick? Or do we keep him?
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,402
What's scary here is that in the Pats system Cooks and Dorsett can both play the slot and outside on any given formation. The safeties have to respect the speed too. If there's any room in the middle because of that, Gronk/Allen/Name-Your-Pass-Catching-RB can eat up the middle.

That's my uneducated take. Thoughts?
Yes, Cooks and Dorsett may tempt defenses to play more small speed guys in coverage, but then Gronk goes wild.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
Reiss runs down the BB-era quarterbacks by season

2017: 2 (Brady/Jimmy Garoppolo)

2016: 3 (Brady/Garoppolo/Brissett)

2015: 2 (Brady/Garoppolo)

2014: 2 (Brady/Garoppolo)

2013: 2 (Brady/Ryan Mallett)

2012: 2 (Brady/Mallett)

2011: 3 (Brady/Brian Hoyer/Mallett)

2010: 2 (Brady/Hoyer)

2009: 2 (Brady/Hoyer)

2008: 3 (Brady/Matt Cassel/Kevin O’Connell)

2007: 3 (Brady/Cassel/Matt Gutierrez)

2006: 2/3 (Brady/Cassel/Vinny Testaverde -- mid-year)

2005: 3 (Brady/Cassel/Doug Flutie)

2004: 3 (Brady/Rohan Davey/Jim Miller)

2003: 3 (Brady/Davey/Damon Huard)

2002: 3 (Brady/Davey/Huard)

2001: 3 (Drew Bledsoe/Brady/Huard)

2000: 4 (Bledsoe/John Friesz/Michael Bishop/Brady)
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
I love this trade. Did anyone watch Brissett and think he was going to be a QB you can win a championship with? How many teams have three legit speed guys? I can't imagine the schemes that'll open up running Hogan, Cooks and Dorsett deep and having Dola, Gronk and/or White/Lewis going over the middle.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,246
I wonder when the last time a team traded the absolute 3rd string QB -- not some once pretty good guy who was demoted -- for an actual living human.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
I love this trade. Did anyone watch Brissett and think he was going to be a QB you can win a championship with? How many teams have three legit speed guys? I can't imagine the schemes that'll open up running Hogan, Cooks and Dorsett deep and having Dola, Gronk and/or White/Lewis going over the middle.
I honestly did not know about JB -- and still don't. I try never to forget another glorious soundbite from this wise and funny man:


What I think I know is that JB and JG were not remotely close in BB's estimation, even projecting JB. And I know that these evaluations are based on preparation and practices we never see, not snippets of game play.

So when someone says, I still would have preferred that they had flipped JG, given the importance of the position and the age of our transcendant superstar, I don't know how you second guess the judgment that was made -- and based largely on what we don't know and did not see.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Umm, are we sure that Dorsett is going to be strictly a vertical threat?

His 3-cone drill score was 4th among all WRs in 2015. That's ahead of Amari Cooper (drafted 4th) and Kevin White (drafted 7th):

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2015&workout=THREE_CONE_DRILL&position=WR

Matt Kelley -- a Patriots fan who runs the highly entertaining RotoUnderWorld YouTube channel had this to say in 2016:


So, even though he's been labeled a "bust" by many, Dorsett is explosive off the line of scrimmage, has decent route-running, (according to James White--his college teammate) is "hard working", is a willing (if not always successful) blocker, and by all reports is coachable with no off-field concerns.

What's scary here is that in the Pats system Cooks and Dorsett can both play the slot and outside on any given formation. The safeties have to respect the speed too. If there's any room in the middle because of that, Gronk/Allen/Name-Your-Pass-Catching-RB can eat up the middle.

That's my uneducated take. Thoughts?
All I can add is that Matt Kelly was at my house for the Super Bowl and I thoroughly enjoyed watching him eat crow for being anti-James White for two solid years until that game. (Matt's a good friend of mine as his daughter and my daughter are classmates)