Philly next year could be adding 2 lotto picks and Noel. That team could land the 8th seed in a terrible east.
BOS-GS-MIA trade: Crawford and Brooks for Anthony and draft picks
- Thread starter Jeff Van GULLY
- Start date
Especially given that Crawford is an RFA after this year. He's both a project and a rental, which is an awful combination from a value perspective.bowiac said:
If Philly uses its cap space intelligently, they could really surprise people next year with a Young/MCW/Noel/2014 Pick/Free Agent core. Give them one of the wings in the draft plus a free agent big and that's a frisky team. I think getting rid of Evan Turner is also likely to be addition by subtraction for them.
Moving Crawford is addition by subtraction. Too bad Ainge couldn't find a 4th team to take Anthony.
I cant figure out why we didnt deal with Miami and just eliminate GS. It seems Miami wanted to get out of Anthony's salary next year and get a SG which they have talked about for a while. Everything we got was from Miami and from Miami's perspective isnt Crawford/Brooks preferable than Toney? And Crawford, Brooks and Toney are all expiring deals. I just cant figure that out.
zenter said:
But if that was the problem why not trade for just Crawford, or if they wanted Brooks as well they could have added in James Jones or Roger Mason who are useless to them
wutang112878 said:
Probably salary cap? Adding Mason puts the Celts in the area between 125 and 150%, so the trade MAY be illegal depending on overall cap situation. Jones is a nonstarter in this respect. Besides, not sure the Heat really want a Crawford (7th-8th guy) versus a cheaper and further-down-bench Douglas.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Philly gets New Orleans 1st round pick in 2014 as well, and it's only top 5 protected.
Another solid move by Danny.
While the 1st rounder could turn into 2 2nds if Philly doesn't make the playoffs this or next season, it's worth the risk. Philly is in a good position to improve next season, as they'll add 2 lottery picks (their own likely top 3 pick and NO's 1st in the #10 range). Say that nets them Wiggins and Vonleh. Then they've got $25M for free agency, and say they add Greg Monroe and Gordon Heyward. Now they are rolling out:
Carter-Williams/Heyward/Wiggins/Noel/Monroe with Vonleh, T. Young, J. Richardson, T. Wroten, A. Moultrie. While that's a young team, that looks like a playoff team in the East to me.
Now find someone willing to give us a similar deal for Bass or Hump and keep Rondo off the court as long as possible.
While the 1st rounder could turn into 2 2nds if Philly doesn't make the playoffs this or next season, it's worth the risk. Philly is in a good position to improve next season, as they'll add 2 lottery picks (their own likely top 3 pick and NO's 1st in the #10 range). Say that nets them Wiggins and Vonleh. Then they've got $25M for free agency, and say they add Greg Monroe and Gordon Heyward. Now they are rolling out:
Carter-Williams/Heyward/Wiggins/Noel/Monroe with Vonleh, T. Young, J. Richardson, T. Wroten, A. Moultrie. While that's a young team, that looks like a playoff team in the East to me.
Now find someone willing to give us a similar deal for Bass or Hump and keep Rondo off the court as long as possible.
The Social Chair said:
New Orleans might tank enough to get a top 5, it's going to be a race to the bottom for them with Anderson and Holiday out.
For the Heat, this is from Chad Ford. They want Anthony off the cap next year and want to clear a bit more this year to add Bynum:zenter said:
leetinsley38 said:
Makes sense in terms of cap holds for Miami.
From the Celts get-trade-done perspective, wutang's proposed trade put them in a cap rule grey area. Not sure how the league calculates cap midseason to determine legality of a trade. Somebody somewhere knows.
A) for everyone suggesting that less Crawford means more Pressy, remember that Rondo is just about back
B) maybe Miami wanted no part of the baggage that goes along with Crawford
C) getting anything at all for these two is great - Crawford's ball pounding/dominating is not helpful
B) maybe Miami wanted no part of the baggage that goes along with Crawford
C) getting anything at all for these two is great - Crawford's ball pounding/dominating is not helpful
zenter said:
Anthony's salary is $3.8M, Jones is $1.5M, Crawford's is $2.1M, Brooks is $1.2M so the Heat would be sending out $2M more than us. As luck would have it Keith, no guaranteed money after this year, Bogans makes $5M. So if Miami just wanted a salary dump, we could have done a Bogans/Anthony & picks. If they wanted a 2, Crawford/Bogans = $7.1M for Anthony/JamesJones/RogerMason & picks = $6.7M
I guess my point is that if our motivation was picks, and Miami's was salary dump, there were ways to accomplish this and we could have kept Crawford or Brooks or both. It seems GS just stole stuff from both of us. Miami got Toney who I think is worse than Crawford, and we probably could have kept Crawford if we just dealt with Miami.
Signed, Puzzled in Pawnee
If I were in favor of tanking, I'd hate this deal because shipping Crawford out might produce more wins, not fewer wins. The offense was totally stagnant when he played the point.
I love shipping out players who are not that good and getting a shot at something that might be useful when the Celtics are good again. Bass, Humphries keep your bags packed there are picks to be had!!
wutang112878 said:
No no no... Celts can't do a direct trade with Heat for Heat's roster issues and Celts' cap issues. Assuming Celts want to get something for Crawford and clear Brooks, after the Lee trade, it's unclear if they're out of the tax-exempt zone, which means the max they can safely take back is 125%. Anthony+Mason is greater than 125% of Crawford+Brooks, and Jones is well outside the Celts' 150% limit.
Given the blizzard of injuries in the East and the actively tanking western teams, there's very little chance of the Pelicans winning the lottery and keeping their pick. The Gordon trace rumors would seem to indicate that they understand this.Jeff Van GULLY said:
The second round is basically one giant crapshoot. Chances are you are going to end up with nothing, but there is a fair chance to nab a rotation player and a slim chance that a real impact player can be found. Talented players that have issues (injuries/off the court etc.) are the best way to go, and with multiple 2nd picks, the Celtics can afford to take a chance or two. The Celtics don't really have a great recent history with the second round though.
2012: Kris Joseph-Syracuse SF, now in France.
2011: E'Twaun Moore- Purdue PG, short stay, now in Orlando, end of the rotation PG for a bad team.
2010: Luke Harangody-Notre Dame PF, played sparingly, now in Russia.
2009: Lester Hudson-UT-Martin PG, played 16 games for Boston before bouncing around the D-League, now in China.
2008: Semih Erden-Turkey C-Played a little for an injury filled Celtic team, traded to Cleveland and now is back in Turkey.
2007: Gabe Pruitt-USC PG- Barely played, now in Greece
2007: Glen Davis: LSU PF- Decent contributor for good Celtic teams, important player for Orlando.
2006: Leon Powe: Cal PF, Ok end of rotation big man for championsip team, now in Puerto Rico.
Not like the 2nd round record for most teams is much better, but Ainge's history indicates that it is likely we don't get an impact player in the 2nd round.
2012: Kris Joseph-Syracuse SF, now in France.
2011: E'Twaun Moore- Purdue PG, short stay, now in Orlando, end of the rotation PG for a bad team.
2010: Luke Harangody-Notre Dame PF, played sparingly, now in Russia.
2009: Lester Hudson-UT-Martin PG, played 16 games for Boston before bouncing around the D-League, now in China.
2008: Semih Erden-Turkey C-Played a little for an injury filled Celtic team, traded to Cleveland and now is back in Turkey.
2007: Gabe Pruitt-USC PG- Barely played, now in Greece
2007: Glen Davis: LSU PF- Decent contributor for good Celtic teams, important player for Orlando.
2006: Leon Powe: Cal PF, Ok end of rotation big man for championsip team, now in Puerto Rico.
Not like the 2nd round record for most teams is much better, but Ainge's history indicates that it is likely we don't get an impact player in the 2nd round.
zenter said:
Anthony ($3.8), Mason ($1.4) and Jones ($1.5) are a total of $6.7
Bogans ($5) and Crawford ($2.1) are a total of $7.1M
In that scenario we are taking less money back, and it actually clears a roster spot for Miami. I am thinking I should have brokered this deal between Danny and Riley. Actually thats probably the problem, those 2 have hated each other since Riley's Laker days
If the Celtics could score, Anthony could have been a useful part. He's even more useful if the team doesn't want to score.
Seems like his role was eliminated when the Heat started playing smaller ball last year. Signing Chris Andersen didn't help, either.
Seems like his role was eliminated when the Heat started playing smaller ball last year. Signing Chris Andersen didn't help, either.
Again, the Heat want Bynum and there is competition for his services. They probably need to use some of the space this year from the Anthony/Toney salary difference to put towards his signing. Theoretically if he's motivated/healthy he can help bang with the Pacers.wutang112878 said:
The Heat were looking to move Anthony for backup minutes behind Wade back in early December. Bynum is a secondary concern. Keep in mind that Miami still has Chris Andersen behind Bosh. I suppose they could run a big backup lineup with Anderson and Bynum, but I think that lineup would have a hell of a time putting points on the board.
wutang112878 said:
Oops. I meant Brooks, not Bogans. Bogans is essentially untradeable. Corrected above.
Mloaf71 said:
Essentially (assuming PHI is a lottery team this year):
two firsts this year (2014),
four picks next year (either 2 firsts/2 seconds or 3 firsts/1 second) (2015)
three or four picks the following year (2 firsts and 1-2 seconds, depending on whether PHI makes the playoffs next year) (2016)
plus three first rounders in 2017/2018
Potentially, the Celtics have ten first round picks over the next five drafts.
bowiac said:
I was recently thinking about which players on the team could potentially land the C's a 1st rounder and I never seriously considered Crawford as one of them. Even when I saw the thread title I immediately assumed second rounders. It's very reasonable to imagine Philly marginally improving to the point that they are at least competing for a playoff spot next season. With all the young guys already on their roster, I could see them pushing for the postseason to get some experience. At the same time, they likely wouldn't improve enough to push the pick beyond the middle of the round. Definitely worth the chance.
Kliq said:
But besides Pruitt (32) and Davis (35) all of those picks were from 49-60.
If we don't get the Sixers' 1st round pick, their 2015 second round pick would be in the 31-44 range, and their 2016 pick could be in the top half too (depending on how long the rebuild takes).
leetinsley38 said:
I understand the trade gives them salary relief, but I dont see how it gives them any 'space' or allows them to throw more money at Bynum. They are still well above the luxury tax threshold. I am not sure how much, if any, they have left of their tax-payer mid level exception but reducing their salary obligations doesnt increase what they have left of that exception. If its an internal budget thing, then thats another story but I dont see how $2M in savings is really making a huge difference with their huge tax bill.
Chalmers has been hurt, so Douglas may play a little short-term but eventually he'll likely be an emergency injury replacement and/or a guy who plays in blowouts.
Why deal with the potential headache of Crawford balking at that sort of role? Just take a guy who's suited to it and save a little money in the process.
Why deal with the potential headache of Crawford balking at that sort of role? Just take a guy who's suited to it and save a little money in the process.
RedOctober3829 said:
Perhaps the goal here is to bottom-out all the more vehemently once Rondo is eventually dealt.
If you deal Crawford first like this, and then get a good haul later for Rondo, there's less stench coming off the deal-- it will be sort of half-forgotten that, oh, Ainge happened to deal the team's other semi-viable PG for peanuts a month earlier. Whereas if you deal Rondo first and then trade Crawford afterwards for nothing, it's more egregious that you're trying to make the team suck.
If they're really tanking, they should push Rondo's return back a couple days just to get through this stretch of TOR, LA, @ORL when they otherwise might be in danger of finally winning a game in 2014.Koufax said:
As a University of Dayton grad, nothing pained me more than having to watch a Xavier toolbox like Crawford play for the Cs. Now, if the Green can just find a way to promote UD grad Chris Wright from the CBA Maine Red Claws I'll be doubly delighted.
No. As I have proven before on this column, I can't count.
OK, three guards, one of whom belongs in the D League, one of whom is very new to the team, and the other of whom can't dribble or pass very well and, when asked to do either, can't shoot well either.
Feel better?
OK, three guards, one of whom belongs in the D League, one of whom is very new to the team, and the other of whom can't dribble or pass very well and, when asked to do either, can't shoot well either.
Feel better?
It is reasonable for the Sixers to win 36-games and make the playoffs one of the next two years in this EC. Doing so will likely net us a pick in the 15-18 range which is an excellent pick that has produced a shit load of quality players over the past several years.Morning Woodhead said:
Not a bad free roll for dumping two guys with no future in Boston. Joel's contract is inconsequential......we are in asset collection mode and not concerned about roster construction or small salaries such as his next year.
Those who don't know Crawford's history can't possibly understand how large of a tool he really is. Ran himself out of Indiana, then out of Xavier a year later. One full year with the Wizards yet couldn't make it through year two without wearing out his welcome there and now on the road once again. Can't wait to hear some behind the scenes stories here although Ainge's crew does a pretty good job keeping these things in house.Don Buddin's GS said:
Those who don't know Crawford's history can't possibly understand how large of a tool he really is.Ran himself out of Indiana, then out of Xavier a year later. One full year with the Wizards yet couldn't make it through year two without wearing out his welcome there and now on the road once again. Can't wait to hear some behind the scenes stories here although Ainge's crew does a pretty good job keeping these things in house.
in other words, the Golden State Warriors?
in other words, the Golden State Warriors?
In fairness to them it is easier to blend a donkey into a winning culture as donkeys are also typically cowards in disguise. The Spurs kept S-Jax under wraps for years, we did with Lil Nate, etc. In theory, JC is an ideal backup to Curry who can also play with him......mind you, this is in theory.Eddie Jurak said:
If Crawford becomes a problem for Golden State, they will cut bait quickly.
A lot of folks who follow the Warriors have questions about Jackson's in-game coaching strategies (especially now that Malone is in Sacramento) but he is one of the rare coaches in the league who truly runs the locker-room. The roster, top to bottom, is filled with "team" guys and its not a mistake that the organization resembles, in some fashion, the Spurs or even the "Ubuntu" Celtics squad. This is what the owners, Myers and Jackson are going for in Oakland. Either Crawford will accept his role and play hard or he will be gone and it will be next man up.
A lot of folks who follow the Warriors have questions about Jackson's in-game coaching strategies (especially now that Malone is in Sacramento) but he is one of the rare coaches in the league who truly runs the locker-room. The roster, top to bottom, is filled with "team" guys and its not a mistake that the organization resembles, in some fashion, the Spurs or even the "Ubuntu" Celtics squad. This is what the owners, Myers and Jackson are going for in Oakland. Either Crawford will accept his role and play hard or he will be gone and it will be next man up.
The second round is basically one giant crapshoot. Chances are you are going to end up with nothing, but there is a fair chance to nab a rotation player and a slim chance that a real impact player can be found. Talented players that have issues (injuries/off the court etc.) are the best way to go, and with multiple 2nd picks, the Celtics can afford to take a chance or two. The Celtics don't really have a great recent history with the second round though.
2012: Kris Joseph-Syracuse SF, now in France.
2011: E'Twaun Moore- Purdue PG, short stay, now in Orlando, end of the rotation PG for a bad team.
2010: Luke Harangody-Notre Dame PF, played sparingly, now in Russia.
2009: Lester Hudson-UT-Martin PG, played 16 games for Boston before bouncing around the D-League, now in China.
2008: Semih Erden-Turkey C-Played a little for an injury filled Celtic team, traded to Cleveland and now is back in Turkey.
2007: Gabe Pruitt-USC PG- Barely played, now in Greece
2007: Glen Davis: LSU PF- Decent contributor for good Celtic teams, important player for Orlando.
2006: Leon Powe: Cal PF, Ok end of rotation big man for championsip team, now in Puerto Rico.
Not like the 2nd round record for most teams is much better, but Ainge's history indicates that it is likely we don't get an impact player in the 2nd round.
Obvious SSS issues aside, that's a 25% success rate (Powe, Davis, and six scrubs). Not coincidentally, the two hits pre-date KG's arrival, the last time the C's had decent draft position in the second round; if the Philly pick converts to two second rounder, at least one (and probably both) of those picks will be earlier than the C's have picked in recent tears. So your analysis suggests they have at least a 50/50 shot of landing a useful player -- which is probably about the same chance as they'd have with a single 1st rounder in the mid-late teens, albeit with a lesser chance of lucking into someone special.
2012: Kris Joseph-Syracuse SF, now in France.
2011: E'Twaun Moore- Purdue PG, short stay, now in Orlando, end of the rotation PG for a bad team.
2010: Luke Harangody-Notre Dame PF, played sparingly, now in Russia.
2009: Lester Hudson-UT-Martin PG, played 16 games for Boston before bouncing around the D-League, now in China.
2008: Semih Erden-Turkey C-Played a little for an injury filled Celtic team, traded to Cleveland and now is back in Turkey.
2007: Gabe Pruitt-USC PG- Barely played, now in Greece
2007: Glen Davis: LSU PF- Decent contributor for good Celtic teams, important player for Orlando.
2006: Leon Powe: Cal PF, Ok end of rotation big man for championsip team, now in Puerto Rico.
Not like the 2nd round record for most teams is much better, but Ainge's history indicates that it is likely we don't get an impact player in the 2nd round.
Obvious SSS issues aside, that's a 25% success rate (Powe, Davis, and six scrubs). Not coincidentally, the two hits pre-date KG's arrival, the last time the C's had decent draft position in the second round; if the Philly pick converts to two second rounder, at least one (and probably both) of those picks will be earlier than the C's have picked in recent tears. So your analysis suggests they have at least a 50/50 shot of landing a useful player -- which is probably about the same chance as they'd have with a single 1st rounder in the mid-late teens, albeit with a lesser chance of lucking into someone special.
If history is any indication JC will be fine this year and the Warriors have no further commitment. I don't mind it from their perspective......I'm just glad he's no longer our problem.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said: