I've followed Jonah Keri for years on Twitter, and maybe no one is more down to riff with you on some joke. Seems a thoroughly decent guy. Interesting he hasn't responded to that very friendly joke that points out "you're ripping me off!"
The Bill Simmons Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Yeah, I had assumed it was just a shitty joke that landed awkwardly, but the radio silence from both of them, along with Ley's "extreme confidence" after, I assume, he would've contacted Keri for the Deadspin piece, make me think otherwise.
Which is why, I wrote:
But at the same time, Simmons has a professional skin as thick as a tissue; which is why it's semi-believable that he would throw a shitfit over this.
Agreed, this feels real at least for the moment.
If it is a real beef, then...
1) This so damn petty of Bill, especially since Jonah went out of his way to thank Bill and even credit him for the concept in the piece.
2) Will this be an actual feud or will Jonah go on Bill's podcast and they squash it in two seconds like a few of these Bill "feuds" have gone down before?
3) If Bill is actually mad we should rename this thread the Bill Simmons Trade Value Thread.
EDIT: I approve of the current change. Well played.
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Yeah, my bad that wasn't directed really at you. More at DD for insinuating that because Ley is "100 percent sure" we should believe it was a shoot and not a joke.
If it's not a joke (and it now appears at least plausible that it's not), I don't understand Simmons' point. Jonah either has a right to write these columns or he's violating ESPN IP. Simmons has no rights to Grantland content produced by other former Grantland writers.
I know Deadspin's history with Simmons, but- and I ask this sincerely, because I don't know if Deadspin writers typically follow journalism 101 protocol- don't you think Ley would have contacted Keri for the story? Assuming he would have, the "extreme confidence" line sticks out.
Also, there's no way Simmons doesn't know he's catching heat for this, both from industry colleagues and the unwashed interwebs masses generally. Given my impression of Simmons as thin-skinned, I would think he would've clarified that he was joking as soon as the pitchforks started coming out, but he's been active on Twitter since then and hasn't addressed it. That's a bit strange to me too. I dunno, the only reason it even reads like a joke is because it's so jarringly obnoxious that it's hard to believe he'd publish it in earnest. But god knows I've made my fair share of these. (My wife is nodding somewhere right now, hi-yo!)
And now I've spent more time thinking about this than is reasonably warranted.
I think ascribing any kind of journalistic integrity to Deadspin at this point is a joke. They are basically a blog now. That site has gone to shit/click bait level. Given their hard on for Simmons, I find no reason to buy Ley's take on it.
And not responding to whatever heat he's taking on Twitter about it, combined with his known penchant for being thin skinned, makes me lead much more the other way and think it was indeed a joke, he and Keri know it and he's kind of enjoying people flipping their shit over nothing. I find the likelihood of him being legit pissed and not passing back out to defend himself to be a very low %.
You know, plus the fact that people have been doing trade value rankings since forever. I don't know if Simmons has just forgotten who he stole the idea from, or if he just independently came on the idea cause it's such an obvious idea that half of sports fans have independently arrived at it, but either way, there's no "ownership" here.
EDIT - former Grantlander just emailed me to tell me Simmons wasn't joking, and that Simmons has had beef with Dave Cameron for years over the same thing.
And here's a link to an old Simmons complaint about this with Cameron.
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Good God.
Remember that time Simmons ran a letters column column like David Letterman? Or a gambling column like Dave Kindred? Or started using footnotes like DFW?
Get real, Bill. Jonah even gave you a hat tip in the column. What more do you need? a TM?
Simmons thinks that getting on a roll in Vegas with all his buddies and then losing it all to some weird looking guy at the table is something that has only happened to him.
It is very transparently a "joke" in the way that asshole that "jokes" about you taking ten minutes extra on your lunch in front of the boss "jokes."
Technically he's not a failure. The main forum that contains Omar is Dead is called P&G, with Pinsetting & Gutterballs as a subforum with Omar and others.
P.S. This is make JMOH feel better, not to pick on you johnmd20.
Reading this thread on Simmons's tweet makes me think we, collectively, are at some kind of inflection point in how we communicate and what messages different people receive.
In terms of the history of technology and communication, it's a little like watching a major character in GoT die.
In terms of the history of technology and communication, it's a little like watching a major character in GoT die.
Technically, we're all going to die so what's the point of living? He's a failure, he admitted as much, and I think we should consider leaving it there. JMOH has been the stalwart of the FBOFW thread. He's led the charge with hilarity and astute observations. And then he forgot where he lived.
This is Santa Claus not being real all over again.
From Karate Kid to Rashomon in 140 Characters: A Seminar on Interpreting the Sports Guy in Early 21st Century SoSH
If his tweet was a joke, I would have expected him to respond with an "FYI - my tweet at Jonah was a joke" follow-up tweet.
If his tweet wasn't a joke, in what possible way could he think addressing the issue publicly over Twitter (as opposed to privately in an email/call or whatever) would be a good idea?
My guess is (a) he was serious initially and (b) he's nonetheless going to claim in the coming days that it was a joke/prank after he sees the blowback. I feel like he has done this before although I can't remember with whom off the top of my head and Google wasn't helpful.
If his tweet wasn't a joke, in what possible way could he think addressing the issue publicly over Twitter (as opposed to privately in an email/call or whatever) would be a good idea?
My guess is (a) he was serious initially and (b) he's nonetheless going to claim in the coming days that it was a joke/prank after he sees the blowback. I feel like he has done this before although I can't remember with whom off the top of my head and Google wasn't helpful.
There's no doubt that his initial tweet was not a joke.
This whole incident is going to make his already paper-mache-thin skin even thinner.
He's acting like a sullen douchebag and he's experienced enough in this field to know better.
This whole incident is going to make his already paper-mache-thin skin even thinner.
He's acting like a sullen douchebag and he's experienced enough in this field to know better.
I was pretty on board with the joking idea but wow Bill as a pretty big defender of his this is pretty pretty pretty pathetic...
So true. Hope Bill stays away from the Deadspin comments. Some of those will leave a mark.
See, that's different. That's a loving homage. What Jonah Keri did is outright stealing and he deserves to be put to death, or worse.
Simmons must be feeling the pressure. How could The Ringer be making any money? It can't. His TV show was canceled mere seconds after it premiered. He doesn't have ESPN backing him up financially. He has HBO, but how long is that going to last?
So in fear, he's extra defensive, which isn't an ideal position for him. This thing with Keri is pretty bad.
So in fear, he's extra defensive, which isn't an ideal position for him. This thing with Keri is pretty bad.
And he's alienating the very people that could help him stop or slow his downward slide. He's in a much less prestigious position now than he was just a year or so ago. Grantland was pretty well respected and enjoyable to read. That's gone. ESPN booted him. His TV show was a total bomb. He has a site now that no one seems to read. And here he is picking fights with a well-regarded guy who he used to work with, when the logical and decent thing to do would be to keep that relationship cordial so that he'll have help and resources if fortunes gives him a chance to improve his lot again.
But, like Schilling, Simmons can't help himself. And it's only going to hurt his career.
But, like Schilling, Simmons can't help himself. And it's only going to hurt his career.
Simmons could have made that tweet, thrown in a smiley face, and it would have been fine. But the fact that he hasn't clarified it was a joke is sad. Frankly, it's kind of pathetic.
By now Bill should know better...
- Social Media Golden Rule: Bill's brand is Bill.
I'm probably more partial to Simmons than most on this site but yeah there's no defense for this. It's the absolute worst of his personality and to Jonah Keri of all people who seems like the nicest, happiest guy in all of sports media.
If he's smart, he's reaching out to Jonah Keri to do a podcast together to bury the hatchet, like he did with Collinsworth.
No doubt. I wonder if Jonah would have balls enough to tell him 'yeah, I'm busy' and let Bill twist in the wind for a while.
I know it's a long shot, but I wonder if this is somehow a ploy by Bill and Jonah to drum up more interest in Keri's column? The radio silence on both ends is interesting. I guess we'll find out when and if Keri is on Bill's podcast.
Even for him, I'm kinda shocked this turned out to be legit. I tend to think we slap him around too much here, but yeah he deserves this. Mea culpa for giving him benefit of the doubt.
If I were Keri I would start rolling out these columns on a weekly basis. A 'Retrospective 2008 MLB trade value assessment' and shit like that.
If I were Keri I would start rolling out these columns on a weekly basis. A 'Retrospective 2008 MLB trade value assessment' and shit like that.
Recall this moment that ESPN made him wait a whole 7 minutes into the postgame before passing him the mic, in which he also made a big deal about it publicly rather than going about it the right way:
So, it turns out a) he really is that thin skinned and b) he prefers to snipe about these petty issues in front of everyone.
If I were on his staff, I'd be concerned with how he called out Keri.
Which member of this year's MLB rookie class is most like a character from Goodfellas?
Well, if he never intended it as a joke there's no call for him to "soften" it with a smiley...
My favorite part of that clip is the fact that (a) he messes up which team he's talking about and (b) his comment that it was a "must play well" game for the Heat is inane and meaningless. Gee, Bill, I wonder why they took so long to get to you...
Agreed. That would be properly rated.
Edit: Or going full Evil Kermit: Bill Simmons, are we sure he's good?
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