Best final four QBs ever?

[Remagellan]

You realize that these stats don't help his case unless you think that like 20% of QBs should be in the HOF. This is saying "He'll be at best 5th among his contemporaries among those who had extended careers, and maybe further back when you account for people with shortened careers due to injury or whatever."

If he gets in, it'll be on the strength of the name and the 2 Super Bowls for NYC.

And his career production. First off being fourth behind Peyton, Brady, and Brees is no small achievement. Second, Rivers and The Rapist entered the league at the same time as Eli, and he's thrown for more yards and TDs than they have. You want to say that's only because he's stayed on the field more, fine, but at this level, that alone is praiseworthy.

He's a Hall of Famer. PERIOD. End of story. You want to say he's not as good as his brother or Brady, granted, but Bert Blyleven wasn't as good a pitcher as Pedro but they both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

(And honestly, Eli played a bigger role in securing his two SB rings than Peyton did in getting the two he has. In fact, Eli did more in his first SB run than Brady did in his first one--and I say that as someone who will defend to death Tom deserving to be the MVP of SB XXXVI.)

People on this board are as ridiculous in their prejudice against Eli as Francesa is in his nitpicking of Brady and Belichick's achievements.

 

[Curt S Loew]

He's goofy looking.

 

[RedOctober3829]

And his career production. First off being fourth behind Peyton, Brady, and Brees is no small achievement. Second, Rivers and The Rapist entered the league at the same time as Eli, and he's thrown for more yards and TDs than they have. You want to say that's only because he's stayed on the field more, fine, but at this level, that alone is praiseworthy.

He's a Hall of Famer. PERIOD. End of story. You want to say he's not as good as his brother or Brady, granted, but Bert Blyleven wasn't as good a pitcher as Pedro but they both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

(And honestly, Eli played a bigger role in securing his two SB rings than Peyton did in getting the two he has. In fact, Eli did more in his first SB run than Brady did in his first one--and I say that as someone who will defend to death Tom deserving to be the MVP of SB XXXVI.)

People on this board are as ridiculous in their prejudice against Eli as Francesa is in his nitpicking of Brady and Belichick's achievements.

In the regular season, Eli Manning has thrown 59 more INTs than Rivers and only 6 more TDs and 2,381 yards in 30 more games. Rivers has a much higher QB rating(94.7 to 83.7) and a higher completion percentage(64 to 59). Manning wins any postseason comparison obviously.

In 16 less regular season games, Ben has 19 less TDs but 55 less INTs than Eli. Eli only has 1,400 more yards which Ben would have overtaken him with 5 more games played based on his career yards per game average. Ben has the same completion percentage as Rivers. Ben has as many rings as Eli but Eli has been a better statistical post season QB. The knock on Eli is that his teams have not gotten to the playoffs as often as you'd like to see.

Based on the numbers, I'd say statistically Rivers and Ben have had better careers than Eli but Eli has had more success in the postseason. Eli has had a very nice career but I have a hard time believing he's as sure fire of a HOFer as you think.

 

[bradmahn]

And his career production. First off being fourth behind Peyton, Brady, and Brees is no small achievement. Second, Rivers and The Rapist entered the league at the same time as Eli, and he's thrown for more yards and TDs than they have. You want to say that's only because he's stayed on the field more, fine, but at this level, that alone is praiseworthy.

He's a Hall of Famer. PERIOD. End of story. You want to say he's not as good as his brother or Brady, granted, but Bert Blyleven wasn't as good a pitcher as Pedro but they both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

(And honestly, Eli played a bigger role in securing his two SB rings than Peyton did in getting the two he has. In fact, Eli did more in his first SB run than Brady did in his first one--and I say that as someone who will defend to death Tom deserving to be the MVP of SB XXXVI.)

People on this board are as ridiculous in their prejudice against Eli as Francesa is in his nitpicking of Brady and Belichick's achievements.

He also has 50+ more INTs than Roethlisberger or Rivers compared to the +19 and +6 numbers in TDs. (Hat tip to RedOctober for beating me to the punch)

Amongst active quarterbacks (which does not include his brother, obviously), he is 23rd in Passer Rating, 12th in Yds/Game, 17th in Yds/Att, 18th in Adjusted Net Yds/Pass Att, 21st in Completion Percentage, and 25th in Interception Percentage. He's had three seasons with 20+ INTs and just four seasons elected to the Pro Bowl. If he was the fourth best quarterback while he was playing, wouldn't he be recognized as such?

He's not as good as Brady, P. Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, or Roethlisberger, all of whom except Rivers have at least one SB ring. Because he's at best the 6th best quarterback in an era with significantly more passing production, he does not deserve to be in the HOF.

 

[tims4wins]

Does Eli even have a league average passer rating since entering the league? I am guessing he is below average. Not that passer rating is the be all end all but that is a major point against him if he has been below average during his entire career

 

[Moog]

Does Eli even have a league average passer rating since entering the league? I am guessing he is below average. Not that passer rating is the be all end all but that is a major point against him if he has been below average during his entire career

He has been above league average, but not by much. Avg passer rating since 2004 is 82.8; Eli's is 83.7. (He was below league average each of his first four years 04-07, but has been above every year since except 2013 and 2016.)

Among contemporaries who have played through the same years (2004-2016), Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Palmer, and Smith (2005-) all have higher career passer ratings than Eli.
The list of younger QBs ahead of him in career passer rating includes Wilson, Ryan, Cousins, Kaepernick, Carr, Luck, Stafford, Tannehill, Newton, Cutler, Flacco, Bradford.

 

[Moog]

Among QBs who have played since 2004, categories in which Peyton, Brady, Brees, Romo, Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Palmer are ALL ahead of Eli:

Passer rating
Adjusted Net Yds/Pass Attempt
Yards/Pass Attempt
Pass Completion %
Pass Interception %
Passing Touchdown %

 

[Remagellan]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree because I'll never convince you guys that he belongs in the Hall of Fame, and you guys will never convince me that he doesn't. I'll be proven right in the end, because he's going to be elected into the Hall of Fame, and you all can take whatever enjoyment you get from grousing that he doesn't deserve it when it happens.

But here is the last thing for your consideration--the list of multiple Super Bowl MVPs:

Bart Starr (I, II)

Terry Bradshaw (XIII, XIV)

Joe Montana (XVI, XIX, XXIV)

Tom Brady (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XLIX)

Eli Manning (XLII, XLVI)

The only players on that list who are not in the Hall of Fame are the two who are not yet eligible. And when it comes time for their cases to be considered, it will matter to a number of those deciding that the two times these two players faced each other with a Super Bowl on the line, Eli Manning drove his team down the field in the fourth quarter and won the game.

 

[Devizier]

Since this has turned into the Eli debate (I think he surely makes it), let's throw an interesting point out there.

Eli Manning is currently 10th all time on games played by a QB. Every quarterback ahead of him has/will make the HOF except for Testaverde. When you adjust for the passing environment, Manning and Testaverde actually have pretty similar career numbers. The question is, if Testaverde had two superbowl victories, including a historic upset, under his belt, does he make it? I think so.

Longevity is actually pretty rare in the NFL.

 

[johnmd20]

Eli's ability to stay healthy and accumulate counting stats is being used by some to denigrate his HoF chances. I don't understand that line of reasoning. Suiting up for every game is tremendously valuable. Part of the job is staying healthy. Imagine if Gronk had half of Eli's survival skills?

How did Oakland do when they lost their QB this year? How did Cinncy do in the playoffs with AJ McCarron starting? How did Arizona do with Lindley starting? If Eli didn't win those two super bowls with miracle drives at the end of the game, he might not make it to the hall. But he did do that and, thus, he'll be in.

I agree with Rag. It's like this board just can't think rationally about Eli's entire track record without losing their minds, because helmet catch and welker drop.

 

[bradmahn]

Health is great when you're actually good when healthy but if you're playing like the 23rd rated QB it's not as if you're irreplaceable.

In addition to also having at a minimum 2 more championships than Eli, you know what else those other multiple SB MVP winners had? Years when they were considered to be the best QB in the NFL as judged by appearances on the All Pro lists. Not a soul can make that argument for Manning the Younger.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Is Ben serious considering retirement, or was this just end-of-season ruminating?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/24/ben-roethlisberger-to-evaluate-if-theres-going-to-be-a-next-season/

 

[drbretto]

This just in, I'm old enough to consider retiring from the NFL due to age... (I just learned I'm the same age as Roethlisburger, who I was guessing was going to be much older)

 

[joe dokes]

Is Ben serious considering retirement, or was this just end-of-season ruminating?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/24/ben-roethlisberger-to-evaluate-if-theres-going-to-be-a-next-season/

He's got that utterly immobile, end-stage Marino look, where the only things left working are his mind and arm. Lotsa hard miles. Who knows how serious he is, but it no longer is a surpirse when a guy says, "fuck it," let me get out while the decision is mine."