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Baseball Is Broken (on the field, proposed rule changes, attendance, etc.)

Discussion in 'MLB Discussion' started by jon abbey, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. edoug

    edoug Member SoSH Member

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    I like the pitch clock. Make the pitcher throw the damn ball. They know what pitch they're going to throw anyway. For those against a pitch clock I have two words: Steve Trachsel. I don't think you have to speed up the game just have less time players are standing around doing nothing.
     
  2. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,261
    I can’t believe they are moving forward with the 3 batter minimum. That is a legitimate change to the rules and fabric of the game. Rosters and pitch clock don’t affect how the game is played nearly as much. This is horrible.
     
  3. charlieoscar

    charlieoscar Member

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    1,205
    In 1945 the All Star Game was cancelled and most teams played charity exhibition games during the break. The St. Louis Browns, using a new pitcher every inning, beat the Cardinals, 3-0. The Cardinals four pitchers worked two innings each. In spite of 11 pitching changes, game time was one hour, 31 minutes. -- 2018 Briefs by SABR member Bill Deane [somewhat paraphrased].
     
  4. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    39,516
    Let's see what the full language is on the 3 batter thing, earlier they were reporting this was '3 batters or the end of an inning', which is much better if so.
     
  5. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    That Rosenthal piece is old...

    The AP says the MLBPA plans to REJECT the three batter minimum


    https://www.apnews.com/65f119ae2a264b5b8210e25e82ae4508
     
  6. Max Power

    Max Power thai good. you like shirt? SoSH Member

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    3,419
  7. MakeMineMoxie

    MakeMineMoxie Member SoSH Member

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    Preach it, Brother! The other day, I had a horrible thought, Steve Trachsel pitching to Mike Hargrove.
     
  8. edoug

    edoug Member SoSH Member

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    Please don't do that yourself.
     
  9. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The Rosenthal piece was from noonish on Tuesday. Not the first time he's made those comments, but those were fresh when I posted. Quote was from The Athletic, if anyone has a subscription and can cut/paste
     
  10. Jim Ed Rice in HOF

    Jim Ed Rice in HOF Red-headed Skrub child SoSH Member

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    3,331
    I wasn't sure if this belonged here or a separate thread in the minor league forum but the Atlantic League and MLB announced rule changes today they are:

    I saw this in a tweet and thought the last one was a joke. What in the holy hell are they thinking with that? How is that not a recipe for injury to pitchers? Also not sure of the reasoning of the base size increase because the article didn't explain it.
     
  11. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

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    3,295
    Maybe safety concerns, so the there’s more room both for the fielder’s and the runner’s foot on a bang-bang play?
     
  12. SirPsychoSquints

    SirPsychoSquints Member SoSH Member

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    3,909
    We talked about it a bit in this thread on the Atlantic League partnership: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?...es-from-new-mlb-agreement.26393/#post-3294543
     
  13. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    15,789
    Why would they institute a huge change like moving the pitcher's mound in the middle of the season? That seems, well, really dumb.
     
  14. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Discussed briefly in that other thread iirc.
     
  15. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    It makes it a little easier to steal bases, I think. The space between bases is actually 3 inches smaller now.

    Experimental design. You can look at how players did in the month before the break and the month after the break. If you did it across multiple seasons a lot more variables would change.

    I think it’s going to be a disaster. Pitchers have their command tuned to 60’6’’. Moving back 2 feet is going to be a walk fest in addition to letting hitters see the ball longer. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average number of runs doubles.
     
  16. Boggs26

    Boggs26 Member SoSH Member

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    1,093
    It could be amusing to watch a million breaking balls bounce in front of the plate the first couple weeks...
     
  17. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The robot will see the ball cross the plate after bouncing and will call it a strike.
     
  18. Danny_Darwin

    Danny_Darwin Member SoSH Member

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    The banning the shift thing continues to baffle me - I don’t see how that doesn’t result in further motivating pitchers to strike everyone out, leading to even more of the TTO-ball that (some) people dislike so much.
     
  19. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    If that is true, that is even dumber than I thought possible. Well, at least one good thing will come out of it - they'll get to measure how many more injuries there will be if pitchers have to adapt to a new distance in the middle of a season.
     
  20. charlieoscar

    charlieoscar Member

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    1,205
    Isn't more than that? Making first base three inches wider means that it will be that much closer to second base. But the size of second base is also being expanded, yes?
     
  21. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    I think you’re right. All of first base (and 3rd) needs to be in fair territory, so the full 3 inches on that plane would extend toward second. But, assuming second base remains centered where it was, only half the increased size, 1-1/2 inches, would extend toward first (and third) with the other half extending toward the back of the base. So it would shorten distance between 1st and 2nd and 2nd and 3rd by 4-1/2 inches.
     
  22. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I mean he was safe by 10.5 inches!
     
  23. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Some rule changes to be announced including 26 man rosters and September roster size of 28, with 14 pitcher max.

    Also, no more waiver deals, one trade deadline.

    Link soon...
     
  24. nattysez

    nattysez Member SoSH Member

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    3,357
    I was at Spring Training this weekend. It looks like the pitch clock stops when the pitcher gets set. Pitchers were generally getting into position with at least 5 seconds left on the clock, so this doesn't seem like it'll be a huge adjustment. What's likely going to happen is guys who take a long time on the mound now will get into the set position within the allotted time, then hold the set longer while catching their breath or getting their mind right or whatever.
     
  25. Danny_Darwin

    Danny_Darwin Member SoSH Member

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    Surprised this isn't getting more attention. One deadline is probably the best way to go, but July 31 is a little early still. And, of course, some significant trades have gone down during the August trading period, including one that Red Sox fans probably remember pretty well...

    [​IMG]
     
  26. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    39,516
  27. edoug

    edoug Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah but It's really sad that their plane was shot down over the Sea of Japan and there were no survivors.
     
  28. adam42381

    adam42381 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Hopefully they’ll either enforce the rules or allow players to swing as quickly as they can like Harper did. The million dollar bonus just gives more incentive to cheat if not.
     
  29. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    The mlbpa is going to let the league implement the three-batter minimum in 2020. I am sad
     
  30. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    As am I. Really hate this rule. Do not understand why the PA is so set against pitch clock but goes along with this.
     
  31. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Have they announced if the 3 batter rule goes away at the end of an inning?
    And what about injuries ending an appearance early?
     
  32. SirPsychoSquints

    SirPsychoSquints Member SoSH Member

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    3,909
    Yes, it's three batters or the end of an inning, or an injury. I haven't seen any details about how the injury thing works.
     
  33. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I haven't seen the inning end part in writing and I have googled until my Google finger has worn out.

    I could see the injury thing requiring a removed pitcher to be ineligible for the next 2 or 3 games. Which would allow the IL (not DL) as appropriate, but would reduce the chance of a fake injury
     
  34. SirPsychoSquints

    SirPsychoSquints Member SoSH Member

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    3,909
    The rules, as instituted in the Atlantic League this year:
    https://www.mlb.com/cut4/new-mlb-atlantic-league-rule-changes
     
  35. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    33,126
    I saw that. But it doesn't mean MLB will take the whole package. Most of those changes will never reach MLB
     
  36. SirPsychoSquints

    SirPsychoSquints Member SoSH Member

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    3,909
    You're correct, I do not have incontrovertible proof as to how MLB will institute this rule, that they plan to announce tomorrow.
     
  37. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    33,126
    No one is asking for incontrovertible proof.

    Just asking about injuries, mostly. Nowhere is the injury component discussed

    And confirm on how they will handle End of Inning. It is kind of odd a change of this magnitude is being leaked (?) without full info
     
  38. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    32,239
    Leaks usually don't have all the info.
     
  39. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Other changes:

    All Star voting done in 2 rounds. Top 3 will advance to a one day vote off for starters.
    Extra innings in ASG will start with runner on second.

    In 2020, the DL will move back to 15 days from 10 as teams took advantage of it, rotating relievers, leading to more pitching changes.
     
  40. Ananti

    Ananti little debbie downer SoSH Member

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    2,101
    Actually saw one proposal that I really like without the 3 batter rule. No warm up pitches for relievers brought into the game in the middle of an inning, they have to pitch right away. If they are brought in at the beginning of the inning they get the same warm up pitch as normal.

    This will shorten the game as it makes pitching changes go by a lot a quicker, it also makes it a lot more risky to bring in a reliever in the middle of the inning, you better be sure that guy is ready to come in before you bring him in. Thus reducing the frequency of middle of the inning pitching changes.
     
  41. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    11,595
    I can’t believe the union is throwing LOOGIES under the bus just when an extra roster spot is being created for them. Eduardo Perez made a point that it also reduces the value of right handed mashers as pinch hitters.

    The 26 man roster seems a way for owners to buy off the union on expansion, as it adds 60% of the jobs expanding by 2 teams would. Expansion would be better for everyone except the current 30 owners.
     
  42. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

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    8,217
    This should be really interesting in practice. How many times does a pitcher feel a twinge in their elbow and get pulled out of caution and then it turns out to be nothing?

    Does this rule need a requirement for days off the active roster following an injury removal? Or do you let pitchers grab their shoulder every time they give up two hits and have a lefty on deck?

    Just seems ripe for flawed implementation.
     
    #342 Captaincoop, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  43. SirPsychoSquints

    SirPsychoSquints Member SoSH Member

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    3,909
    I don't think LOOGYs are as common as they used to be. I see 16 lefties in 2018 that had at least 20 appearances of 1 or 2 batters. Several of these appearances ended a game, and more likely ended an inning.

    Looking at the most prolific such pitcher, Andrew Chafin, only 23 of his 35 such appearances would have run afoul of these rules. The other 12 either spanned multiple innings or resulted in the end of an inning. Chafin also had 42 other appearances of 3 or more batters.

    Edit: Data: https://www.baseball-reference.com/tiny/eB2WR
     
  44. jungleboy

    jungleboy lurker

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    121
    According to Jayson Stark, the league implemented it unilaterally.

     
  45. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    Right - I don't see how they can make this workable either way. If a pitcher can be put into the next game after being taken out before 3 batters for "injury," pitchers and teams will just fake injuries all the time or at least be way oversensitive to any minor pains that they can label an "injury" (by August if not earlier I am sure all relief pitchers have minor aches and pains they are dealing with).

    If a pitcher taken out for injury has to then be removed from the active roster (or otherwise prevented from pitching) for a certain number of days, however, that will almost certainly lead to MORE injuries to good relievers because teams and, likely, the pitchers themselves will be reluctant to declare an "injury" during their appearance, especially if a big series is coming up, the bullpen is already depleted, etc. It's not going to take long before a good pitcher feels a tweak in a joint that, in the absence of this rule, would result in his being taken out of a game but where the pitcher instead tries to grit it out only to aggravate the pain and actually be rendered injured for a longer period of time.
     
  46. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    33,126
    See my proposal in post 333.
     
  47. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

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    In an important game or series, a manager with his job or season on the line is not going to hesitate for a second to have a player removed for an "injury" if it gives him an advantage.

    Heck, what do you do in a game 7 when this happens? Fine, make me sit the first two games of the next series (or next year).

    It's not like MLB can aggressively police this, since if ONE guy gets seriously hurt because a team was concerned about getting disciplined for a "fake" injury, it would be a bigger shitshow than 100 incidences where teams get away with faking one.

    It's almost analogous to the "injuries" that inevitably pop up on a defense when the offense is rolling in a no-huddle.
     
  48. charlieoscar

    charlieoscar Member

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    1,205
    This all should cut game time by about 45 minutes.
     
  49. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,371
    Yeah, no, it won’t.
     
  50. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    2,517
    That's interesting. Does not seem like a rule that should be enacted unilaterally. Surprised MLBPA isn't fighting it more.

    Really not looking the Manfred reign
     

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