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Baseball Is Broken (off the field/labor relations etc.)

Discussion in 'MLB Discussion' started by jon abbey, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    39,500
  2. Apisith

    Apisith Member SoSH Member

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    2,126
    The craziest thing is Tony Clark getting a contract extension just two months ago.
     
  3. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    16,989
    At least Tony Clark is killing the whole league now and not just the Red Sox.
     
  4. Apisith

    Apisith Member SoSH Member

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    2,126
    Grandal getting 1/$18m is also crazy. Dude is a top 5 catcher and can't get anything more than a year. The FA market is completely broken.
     
  5. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    39,500
    That one’s a bit different as he turned down a 4 year deal for $50M+ from the Mets, inexplicably.
     
  6. Apisith

    Apisith Member SoSH Member

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    2,126
    Even taking into account him and his agent misplaying the market, to have a top 5 catcher receiving only 1 major contract offer longer than 1 year is still a big sign that the FA market is broken for me.
     
  7. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    15,771
    Actually it was the players (well, Marvin Miller) who turned down this idea, one that IIRC was championed by Charlie O. (Plus, frankly, the fans would never put up with it.)

    From this article:

    If you’re old enough to have remembered wearing bell bottom jeans or full color polyester pants, you might remember the dawn of free agency. It came about because of a landmark 1975 ruling by the late Peter Seitz, an independent arbitrator who – as part of a three-person board with one representative from the owners and one from the players – determined that veteran pitchers Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally should become free agents after playing a full season without signed contracts. When Seitz ruled in favor of the two pitchers, the MLB owners panicked. They worried that most players would become free agents on an annual basis, creating chaos. Not wanting that to happen, the owners negotiated a compromise system that allowed players to become free under two conditions: a) their contracts had expired and b) they had accumulated at least six years of major league service time.


    It was an adept piece of negotiation by Marvin Miller, the head of the Players’ Association. He felt that all-out free agency might be bad for the players; if all players became free agents every year, then they would create an oversaturation of the market and actually compress salaries for all but the superstar players. By introducing a system of six-year free agency, Miller ensured that only a few players would become free each winter. Miller figured that demand would increase for those players, thereby pushing their salaries higher and higher. Miller figured right.
    I wonder if anyone has ever run a simulation on whether total FA would save or cost money for the owners.
     
  8. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    11,581
    What’s inexplicable is the Red Sox not being in on him and the Dodgers not being willing to bring him back. The luxury tax and its development dollar penalties without a salary floor is the reason that Grandal didn’t get more multi year offers.
     
  9. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    11,581
    I think what the players need to argue for is a system that incentivized teams to not suck. There is basically no demand for good players from about half the league right now. As someone pointed out, that’s somewhat rational, because there is no economic benefit from winning 75 games as opposed to 71.

    Suppose that for teams that did not exceed the luxury tax, and who spent at least half the luxury tax, but didn’t make the Division Series, there was a set of perks that helped you get better sooner. Let say that if you won at least 72 games, you got an extra 3rd round pick, and teams that won 81 games additionally got an extra 2nd round pick. Suddenly being .500 with a $105 million payroll gets you a big benefit relative to going 70-92 with a $80 million payroll. Add to that system a clause that says if you lost more than 95 games while not spending at least half the luxury tax threadhold, you lose your 2nd round draft pick, and if you lose 100 games with a skimpy payroll you lose your 3rd round pick too, and the incentive to not suck gets even bigger.

    The penalties for losing incentivize even very low payroll to teams to spend, day, $60 million instead of $50 million.
     
    #209 Plympton91, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  10. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Member

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    4,904
    I can’t imagine this ever happening, but if the MLB had a tiered division system like soccer, teams that consistently underperformed could be relegated.
     
  11. Pandarama

    Pandarama lurker

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    27
    Relegation means next to nothing in a system where MLB clubs “own” the minor league players.
     
  12. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    15,771
    One small but simple and fast fix MLB could make to assist veteran players is to exempt a portion of eligible veteran salaries from the luxury tax calculation. Unless I've missed something, the NFL has a similar policy.

    The hard part is to figure out which contracts MLB wants to incentivized. Clearly, MLB would want a rule that carves out the top FAs but MLB could certainly use this to incentivize the signing of the mid-tier FAs, who appear to be losing out.
     
  13. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    39,500
    I argued for this extensively here a few years ago, you would dump the AL and NL, make the DH universal, and with a year or two notice, separate the 30 teams into A league and B league, 15 teams each, based on record from the previous season or maybe the previous three seasons. Everyone plays 10 or 11 games against the other 14 teams in their league and then the rest against teams from the other league. There are no divisions, top 6 in league A make the playoffs, top 2 get byes. The top 3 or 4 in league B have their own playoffs and the two finalists are promoted, with the bottom two league A teams relegated.

    You’d lose the ability for a team to go worst to first in a year, but the A league regular season would be awesome all season long.
     
  14. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    7,047
    How do you handle the fact that the B league teams would potentially see a drastic decrease in TV, fan, and licensing revenue across the board, and would never be able to attract a single free agent?
     
  15. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    If we’re assuming the total pie of revenues would be the same, then the better run teams like OAK and TB would benefit greatly and the more poorly run teams would be hurt. Past that, none of this is happening anyway and certainly there would be a billion details to work out if it was.
     
  16. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    Put the first round of the draft in inverse order. First team outside of a playoff berth by record gets the top pick and go backwards from there. Second round on normal order. That would help.
     
  17. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    11,581
    That’s a good idea. I’d give the losers of the gimmick game the first picks to avoid anybody losing to finish 6th instead of 5th.
     

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