There's no accountability.. he plays guys like Ramsey and ox even though they don't perform.. and is playing everyone out of position.. why would anyone want to play for a manager like that?
Arsenal 2017-18: Au Revoir, Arsene
- Thread starter mikeford
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Ox to Chelsea for $35m - http://news.arseblog.com/2017/08/report-chelsea-set-for-35-million-ox-deal/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
I don't rate him at all, but I'm prepared to see him flourish under a manager with any remaining idea as to how to develop talent.
I don't rate him at all, but I'm prepared to see him flourish under a manager with any remaining idea as to how to develop talent.
IMO Ozil runs his butt off most games...and as far as I know actually wants to stay because of Wenger.. so are either of these things true?
edit: I mean he actually did very much seem to care at least early in the game... there are so many problems with Arsenal that I'd point out before Ozil
And now Alexis has supposedly left training with Chile to "sort out his future", which we know he wouldn't need to do if he was staying with Arsenal. There better be someone else coming in, or more than one someone else.
This is just a spectacular implosion. Lots of chickens coming home to roost.
My only hope is that, in the aftermath, there will be heightened pressure on Kroenke to sell the club to Usmanov (or to whoever Usmanov sells to, if he decides to buy Everton instead). I can't see this club challenging for major honors in the next 5-10 years as long as Kroenke is the owner.
My only hope is that, in the aftermath, there will be heightened pressure on Kroenke to sell the club to Usmanov (or to whoever Usmanov sells to, if he decides to buy Everton instead). I can't see this club challenging for major honors in the next 5-10 years as long as Kroenke is the owner.
I was explaining Arsenal's predicament to a football newb at work and I think the key is the club needs to decide what they want to do. The footballing landscape has changed drastically since the Gunners heyday 15-20 years ago. Either boatloads of money are needed to compete annually (e.g. Chelsea, United, City, and a resurgent Liverpool) or you need to be a shrewd club that picks its spots a la Spurs. There is the weird duo of Southampton and Everton, who seem to compete for Europe spots every year, without really challenging for the title, but are still significantly better than the rest of the table. Other clubs are either firmly EPL midtable or 'avoid relegation' aspirants.
I just did a quick look at the teams that Kroenke owns: he doesn't really have any winning clubs. I mean, a few of the clubs he owns won titles in the late-1990s or early-2000s, but the teams he owns haven't won titles in about 10+ years. The lack of championship success across so many leagues would suggest that it is not bad luck or a bad run, but rather that Kroenke just isn't an owner who either (a) cares about winning titles or (b) knows how to own to win titles.
This is my sense too. In American sports, our vision of a bad owner is very influenced by the example of activist types like Dan Snyder, guys who interfere in the sporting operations in ways that work against the team. While those owners are usually terrible, there is another class of mediocre owner who is just too apathetic or incompetent to hire good people into the top (GM/head coach) positions. That is Kroenke.
That's a big problem because Arsenal faces a lesser version of Atleti's dilemma, with domestic rivals with significantly more resources and drawing power for star players. The only way to overcome that disadvantage is by turning yourself into a very smart organization that punches above its weight through excellent scouting, player development, and managing - like Atleti has done, or BvB in Germany, or Monaco and previously Lyon in France - and there is nothing about Kroenke's track record with any of his teams that suggests he can build that kind of organization at Arsenal.
I think you guys are shortchanging Arsenal's financial position. Forbes has them as the 6th most valuable club and Deloitte has them 7th in annual revenue (and that's behind City and PSG, whose revenue numbers are highly suspicious). They can't really match Utd/Bayern/Real Madrid/Barca in revenue, and they don't have owners willing to run huge losses like the petrodollar clubs. But they shouldn't be getting significantly outspent by Liverpool and Everton, and they have 60-70% more revenue than clubs like Spurs and Dortmund that have to keep replenishing after the richer clubs pick them over. The financial disparity between Utd/City/Chelsea and Arsenal is much, much smaller than the disparity between RM/Barca and Atleti. RM/Barca have approx. 2.5-3x Atleti's revenue; Utd (the world's richest club) have about 1.5x Arsenal's. That's big enough to be a difference in kind rather than degree. Who was the last player Arsenal wanted that they lost over money?
This is a good corrective. I didn't mean to imply that Arsenal's position was equivalent to Atleti's. But they still are facing three domestic opponents with more resources and they need to make up that deficit with high quality management. I'm not sure any team that Kroenke has owned has ever been seen, in any time period, as having a particularly savvy front office or head coach that gave the club an advantage over competitors. Could it happen at Arsenal post-Wenger? Sure. But Kroenke's track record in hiring and evaluating front office and managerial talent is not inspiring.
Yeah, this seems mostly likely to be the case, from my outsider perspective. I mean, it's fairly apparently what his marching orders are to the club -- no debt, keep the balance sheet around zero every year, and other than that, I'll just mind my own business. He's nearly tripled his investment, and is ahead somewhere around a billion USD in less than a decade by running things this way, what possible incentive would he have to change? That's the only results he seems to care about. I would love to own a championship football club. Given the choice between that and a billion dollars, though, I'd probably take the billion. I guess some guys are wired like Abromovich and some like Kroenke, who seems to see the difference between four billion and five billion as being as valuable as the first billion.
The only thing that likely will get his attention is if the losing on the field starts to eat into the value of his asset. But that sure as hell doesn't seem to be happening. Yet, at least. Kroenke could be made to care about winning titles, but only when that desire lined up with his desire to make money. At present, they do not line up, so the only hope for Arsenal at the moment is to luck into a generational player or two that everyone else overlooks, or to hope for another year like the year before last when everyone else was down at the same time and they are good enough and lucky enough to pick up the crumbs.
So long, Ox. Took less money to go to LV. To be honest, can't blame anyone for leaving at this point. After about 5 years, I'm not even sure if he's good or not.
It'll be a lot easier to root and be happy the Ox at Liverpool, I think, than if he had moved to Chelsea.
We went from having 150m for new signings at the beginning of the window, to now being so broke, we have to sell off assets like we're Wesley Snipes, WTF.
In MLS, Kroenke is crap owner in a very similar way to how Bob Kraft is a crap owner. Both are content to run a tight ship financially and place minimal expectations or accountability on their front office and on-field personnel. The thinking seems to be that these clubs are the secondary (Kraft) or tertiary (Kroenke) sports priority and they're happy to let other owners put in the work to improve the league. The value of their clubs lags behind the bigger MLS teams, but it's still going up without any work or additional investment.
Kroenke at least got a stadium built and bothers to fire the GM every so often. So even if he doesn't suck as hard as the Krafts, him owning your team is a total death sentence. Condolences.
Kroenke at least got a stadium built and bothers to fire the GM every so often. So even if he doesn't suck as hard as the Krafts, him owning your team is a total death sentence. Condolences.
Sometimes he looked like an absolute monster on the field. Running at defenders and pressing great on defense. But there was only that one speed to his game so other times he was a net negative out there.
Honestly, I think the best thing for him wouldve been to go to Chelsea and commit to playing wingback. My guess is his play at Liverpool will look similar to his arsenal days. Positionless and maddening.
If Ox sells for 40mil, then Alexis should sell for 100mil.
It's too bad the team and players that brought me in as a fan are now leaving. It was fun while it lasted.
His big problem is going to be getting into games. I certainly don't see him starting over any of the front three - and midfield is pretty crowded with Coutinho/Can/Henderson/Lallana and Wijnaldum all ahead of him on the depth chart. And that's not even considering the Lemar possibility and Keita next year.
He's going to have to play a lot better to stay in the starting lineup in any top EPL team.
Anyone want to buy Ramsey?
When did Alexis get his English citizenship?
The valuation of English players, with English passports, is always going to skew the numbers. Sanchez might be worth 100M but he'd be worth more if he were "homegrown".
We made 1 signing during the entire window.
One.
Uno.
Un.
Pathetic. This club will be in total ruins before Wenger finally leaves.
One.
Uno.
Un.
Pathetic. This club will be in total ruins before Wenger finally leaves.
The latest Tuesday Club podcast dropped on Friday - I finished listening to it today, and it really is lovely to laugh at such passionate, funny people just tear into Arsenal for an hour.
This seems signifcant...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41145505
...insofar as I think it's the first time Wenger has publicly expressed his doubts about his ability to lead Arsenal. That means it's at least *possible* that Wenger might resign if this season continues to spiral down the toilet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41145505
...insofar as I think it's the first time Wenger has publicly expressed his doubts about his ability to lead Arsenal. That means it's at least *possible* that Wenger might resign if this season continues to spiral down the toilet.
The whole thing seems like a complete mess. But according to the Guardian they were 3rd in revenue, making more than Liverpool and Chelsea, with Man City ahead mostly because of a better Champions league run, and Man U just being a juggernaut in terms of income, but also having huge debt due to how they were bought. This is for 2015-2016, but I can't imagine it changed that much in a year.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club
Arsenal really shouldn't be economically outclassed by anyone in the league. And investing in them and actually winning big on a regular basis could dramatically increase their sponsorship income and make them one of the top handful of teams on the planet in terms of value. If you look at the Patriots, winning moved them from a mediocre valued team to one of the top most valuable sports franchises on the planet.
I have no clue how this financial fair play system works, and it doesn't seem like anyone else does either. The wage bill can't go up by more than 7 mil a year, but then there are caveats for increasing income. How hard is it to prove one of those happened? How has Man U, City, or Chelsea not run into these limits? Or have they, and I just haven't heard?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club
Arsenal really shouldn't be economically outclassed by anyone in the league. And investing in them and actually winning big on a regular basis could dramatically increase their sponsorship income and make them one of the top handful of teams on the planet in terms of value. If you look at the Patriots, winning moved them from a mediocre valued team to one of the top most valuable sports franchises on the planet.
I have no clue how this financial fair play system works, and it doesn't seem like anyone else does either. The wage bill can't go up by more than 7 mil a year, but then there are caveats for increasing income. How hard is it to prove one of those happened? How has Man U, City, or Chelsea not run into these limits? Or have they, and I just haven't heard?
Definitely not an expert on FFP rules. That being said, I think incoming salary increases (not the transfer fee) have to be offset by player sales. Or at least a percentage thereof.
Man U has a lot of debt, but didn't Kroenke load debt onto the club too?
One thing that Arsenal did poorly was leverage their status when they were winning. Wenger notoriously hates preseason tours and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing one - I don't recall them doing a preseason tour at all before about 2012 or so. American hipsters turning into Arsenal fans is a fairly recent thing (maybe the last decade or so) and I don't think they have anywhere near the global fanbase United, Chelsea or Liverpool have.
You really see this in how Man U seems to get five million quid a year to have an official kimchi while Arsenal have nothing of the sort. I also wonder about the club's commercial deals, they trumpeted their last shirt sponsor/kit company contracts as big steps up from the undervalued deals they signed to get revenue when the stadium opened, yet I think Tottenham's deals are just a few million quid off Arsenal's despite their club being nowhere near as popular locally or globally.
One thing that Arsenal did poorly was leverage their status when they were winning. Wenger notoriously hates preseason tours and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing one - I don't recall them doing a preseason tour at all before about 2012 or so. American hipsters turning into Arsenal fans is a fairly recent thing (maybe the last decade or so) and I don't think they have anywhere near the global fanbase United, Chelsea or Liverpool have.
You really see this in how Man U seems to get five million quid a year to have an official kimchi while Arsenal have nothing of the sort. I also wonder about the club's commercial deals, they trumpeted their last shirt sponsor/kit company contracts as big steps up from the undervalued deals they signed to get revenue when the stadium opened, yet I think Tottenham's deals are just a few million quid off Arsenal's despite their club being nowhere near as popular locally or globally.
I am guessing Saturday's match vs Bournemouth is on NBC Sports Gold, with Tottenham/Everton and LCFC/Chelsea getting NBCSN and CNBC?
Nope
Arsenal vs. Bournemouth, 10am, NBCSN, Universo, Sling Blue, DIRECTV NOW and fubo Premier (free 7-day trial)
Everton vs. Spurs, 10am, CNBC, Sling Blue, DIRECTV NOW and fubo Premier (free 7-day trial)
Brighton vs. West Brom, 10am, Premier League Pass ($50 per season)
Leicester vs. Chelsea, 10am, Premier League Pass ($50 per season)
Southampton vs. Watford, 10am, Premier League Pass ($50 per season)
Every team will be on Gold at least 3 times. My guess is they'll put a few decent matchups (like Chelsea v Leicester) on there to try to get people to pay up.
what a joy: we also get Ian Darke
edit: was there an organized boycott? see a lot of empty pitchside seats
edit: was there an organized boycott? see a lot of empty pitchside seats
Alexis backheel assist was so silky. I'm gonna miss that guy when he's banging in 25 a year for Pep.
Uh, weird year for Arsenal on social media. Mesut Ozil's picture was used (INCORRECTLY) in connection with a post on twitter about victims in Las Vegas.
To be clear, there is no evidence that Ozil was in LV or in any way involved in the tragedy. He was exactly as connected to this as Lukas Podolski was to human trafficking on a jet ski earlier this year.
To be clear, there is no evidence that Ozil was in LV or in any way involved in the tragedy. He was exactly as connected to this as Lukas Podolski was to human trafficking on a jet ski earlier this year.
No Alexis and Ozil starts on the bench vs Watford today. So much for picking up points on Chelsea, ManU and Pool.
Yeah..it's one thing to predict they're going to leave and another to not play them and basically make it happen. Wenger needs to go.
And that 'penalty' was an absolute joke, and the forward was off or very close to it on the second..
Penalty was absolutely horrific. There was nothing there. But Arsenal was awful in the second half. Absolutely deserved to concede a goal giving Watford all that time in the box.
They were pretty terrible the entire match. Never seemed to get out of first gear. Pretty pathetic given the length of time off.
Totally unsurprised with this result.
I'm pretty much emotionally detached from the team at this point. There is no reason to expect anything other than mediocre performances interspersed with obviously false dawns given the mismanagement of the club and I'm tired of going around in the same circles about Wenger's failings and stupid decisions. I'll keep watching but I won't be invested in the club again until Wenger is gone.
I'm pretty much emotionally detached from the team at this point. There is no reason to expect anything other than mediocre performances interspersed with obviously false dawns given the mismanagement of the club and I'm tired of going around in the same circles about Wenger's failings and stupid decisions. I'll keep watching but I won't be invested in the club again until Wenger is gone.
I'm rooting for them to win but when bad results happen I'm now able to just shake my head and then go about the rest of my weekend without brooding about it. Or even really thinking much about it. Arsenal gonna Arsenal, as long as Wenger is in charge.
Honestly when we fall on our faces like today, i just laugh anymore
What else can you do? Everyone sees the problem but the board and owner
What else can you do? Everyone sees the problem but the board and owner