Arsenal 2015-2016: The One That Got Away
- Thread starter blueguitar322
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Relying on those 3 for depth (and throw in an ancient Arteta too, why not) is still pinning your hopes on these guys. And its still poor planning.
I hardly think Arteta being missing is a "real problem", given that he hasnt been an effective player for close to 2 seasons now.
Cazorla of course is the real blow. But the guys they expected to back up and spell him are unreliable, muscle-injury-prone crocks so... here we are. Mohammed Elneny, Francis Coquelin and friggin Flamini are the only fit senior midfielders now.
Oh, Big Sam will make it happen. (But seriously, you're probably right - my bad.)
He's still useful, I guess. So former more than the latter. I mean, it's essentially over unless one thinks that a third successive FA Cup is something to crow about.
Things could get really ugly over this next week.
This weekend is the FA Cup match, which if Arsenal wins, everyone will be like, "big deal, you beat Watford at home." But if they lose, then that will be another bad defeat, and the end of any realistic hopes at a trophy this year. Meanwhile, the other teams will be playing regular PL matches: Tottenham plays Aston Villa, Man City plays Norwich, and then Leicester hosts Newcastle on Monday. So on Monday night, Arsenal is likely to be in 4th place, 11 behind Leicester, 6 behind Tottenham and one behind Man City.
Then Arsenal will have to go take their whipping at Barcelona. A big defeat won't go over well, even though everyone knows Barcelona are a clearly better team. It'll be another year of losing in the round of Arsenal, and they should have avoided Barcelona for at least another round if Arsenal hadn't botched the group stages and barely finished second, etc.
That match ends Wednesday night. Arsenal then fly back to England, arrive late, then go on the road to play at Everton in an early kickoff on Saturday. Everton haven't been great but they can score goals, and at home, they definitely have the capability to score a few on a fatigued team that hasn't been playing well lately. No one should be surprised if Arsenal drop points there in this situation.
Now if things go well, they could advance past Watford into the semis of the FA Cup, put up a fight in Barcelona and acquit themselves decently, and get the 3 points at Everton, which would pretty much be the best case scenario. But judging from how this team has looked for most of 2016, they could easily be out of all cup competitions by a week from tomorrow and trying to desperately cling to 4th place.
It's a big week.
This weekend is the FA Cup match, which if Arsenal wins, everyone will be like, "big deal, you beat Watford at home." But if they lose, then that will be another bad defeat, and the end of any realistic hopes at a trophy this year. Meanwhile, the other teams will be playing regular PL matches: Tottenham plays Aston Villa, Man City plays Norwich, and then Leicester hosts Newcastle on Monday. So on Monday night, Arsenal is likely to be in 4th place, 11 behind Leicester, 6 behind Tottenham and one behind Man City.
Then Arsenal will have to go take their whipping at Barcelona. A big defeat won't go over well, even though everyone knows Barcelona are a clearly better team. It'll be another year of losing in the round of Arsenal, and they should have avoided Barcelona for at least another round if Arsenal hadn't botched the group stages and barely finished second, etc.
That match ends Wednesday night. Arsenal then fly back to England, arrive late, then go on the road to play at Everton in an early kickoff on Saturday. Everton haven't been great but they can score goals, and at home, they definitely have the capability to score a few on a fatigued team that hasn't been playing well lately. No one should be surprised if Arsenal drop points there in this situation.
Now if things go well, they could advance past Watford into the semis of the FA Cup, put up a fight in Barcelona and acquit themselves decently, and get the 3 points at Everton, which would pretty much be the best case scenario. But judging from how this team has looked for most of 2016, they could easily be out of all cup competitions by a week from tomorrow and trying to desperately cling to 4th place.
It's a big week.
It's never been three-peated in history.
So that would be something.
I'd rather Arsenal have won the league but here we are. Take what's left on the plate.
That's really uncharitable. Even had they handled their business vs Dinamo Zagreb and Olympikos, there's no friggen way even the most entitled fan could expect that they'd win a two-leg matchup with Bayern. Their victory over them at home was pretty much the high point for Arsenal's performance levels this season, and they did so with 30% possession and a totally based Bellerin and Ozil (plus Neuer missing a catch and letting Giroud net the first goal, possibly off his hand). They then got their faces punched in at the Allianz. Bayern could win the whole damn thing this year, with a squad whose form is healthy and, at worst, the #2 team in the world, with a manager who might be #1 in the world. That's just silliness.
They had a 4-in-5 chance to avoid guaranteed defeat in the R16, and they rolled snake eyes. Blaming them for it is pretty silly, especially on the heels of a miraculous job to escape the group.
Fault a few of the league games this year if you like, but I think you go a bit too far. I wouldn't blame Wenger one bit if he throws the Arsenal Ladies out there @ Barcelona and concentrates on the contests that carry more meaning.
I am not saying that, I am predicting that some fans will react like that after Arsenal are eliminated, especially if they get trounced.
Personally I think making it to the Round of Arsenal every year is pretty good, though you always hope to win any competition you are in. I never really expected them to get near the Champions League final this season.
The League is another story, the way it has unfolded.
As for the FA Cup, it would be fantastic to win another one and if it happens no one should downplay it. Odds are still against it happening but if they can pull it off it would be quite an accomplishment.
Personally I think making it to the Round of Arsenal every year is pretty good, though you always hope to win any competition you are in. I never really expected them to get near the Champions League final this season.
The League is another story, the way it has unfolded.
As for the FA Cup, it would be fantastic to win another one and if it happens no one should downplay it. Odds are still against it happening but if they can pull it off it would be quite an accomplishment.
I hate that my Brit brother-in-law made me care about this friggin' team that I think I may actually now care about more than the friggin' Sox. And I didn't even get to enjoy the Invincibles.
0-1 to Watford.
from BBC live updates:
"Oh Arsenal. They could have scored a sackful in the first half and now they're behind. It's poor defending from the Gunners too - Troy Deeney beats two men to head on a throw-in, it comes to Ighalo, who shrugs off Gabriel with ease and buries his shot past David Ospina."
from BBC live updates:
"Oh Arsenal. They could have scored a sackful in the first half and now they're behind. It's poor defending from the Gunners too - Troy Deeney beats two men to head on a throw-in, it comes to Ighalo, who shrugs off Gabriel with ease and buries his shot past David Ospina."
Welp. Some year. Lost another easily winnable game. You're never as good as you look when you're at your best, but never as bad as you look when you're at your worst.
After this week's exhibition game vs Barca, Arsenal is now out of all comps except the league. They aren't favorites for the league, but not fully out of it yet.
After this week's exhibition game vs Barca, Arsenal is now out of all comps except the league. They aren't favorites for the league, but not fully out of it yet.
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Some pretty deep post-mortem analysis in here after the Champions League exit, huh? Probably exactly what Arsenal deserves, mind you, but there you go...meanwhile, um, this:
http://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2016/3/17/11245318/arsenal-premier-league-arsene-wenger-hot-seat-what-now
Money quote:
http://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2016/3/17/11245318/arsenal-premier-league-arsene-wenger-hot-seat-what-now
Money quote:
Its hard to disagree with this article.
What's most disappointing to me isn't that Wenger didn't spend more money - although that is a legitimate criticism - but that he simply hasn't gotten the best out of some talented players. His bet was that the players he had were good enough and that he could bring the performances out of them that would allow Arsenal to compete at the highest level. The simple reality is that it hasn't happened. Ramsey has never regained the form of 18 months ago, Alexis has been pretty awful and never looked comfortable this year, Walcott isn't good enough for the role he has been thrust into, Wilshere has been injured as usual, etc. Its not just that Wenger didn't buy good enough pieces, its that the whole is less than the sum of the parts right now.
Its time for somebody else with new ideas and a different approach to constructing a winner. If we go backward for a year or two and miss out on the Champions League, so be it. But I don't see any reason to believe that sticking with Wenger is going to yield materially different results at this point. I have long been for keeping Wenger and letting him see if he could construct a winner under more favorable financial circumstances than the 2005-2014 period. But I think the clear answer at this point, painfully enough, is that he had his chance and failed.
Well that was much better. Too bad it's too late for the league but maybe Sp*rs will blow it and finish below us at least.
Everton was pretty much the perfect opponent for Arsenal today: they like to play football, their defense is suspect, and their home crowd suspects their squad is underachieving and can get on their players' backs (just like Arsenal's fans do at The Emirates). Arsenal played well, but I don't exactly think that's a corner turned.
there were a few positives today:
Welbeck looked energized and so much better than Walcott... Possibly Wenger is turning away from starting Theo which would be nice.
The team looked like they were passing like they were early in the season... My opinion has been that Ramsey has been in the way most of the season in the final third... Playing way too far forward and either playing in passing lanes or in the way of where forwards should be or where they want the ball. I felt like passing was a bit more natural.
The team shut down Lukaku without Mertesaker... I think this was also possibly a positive of not having Ramsey on.. Because the team defended as a team. I feel like Ramsey and Ox have been caught up way too much this season.. Today it felt like everyone actually played their position.
Now if only Sanchez could get back in goal scoring form.
Elneny is starting to give us the passing fulcrum in midfield that we've lacked since Santi got hurt.
It's no coincidence that the team has looked much better since he replaced Ramsey IMO.
It's no coincidence that the team has looked much better since he replaced Ramsey IMO.
As you can see from the post two above yours I completely agree about Ramsey. I think he's made the mistake of thinking he's a goal scorer first and midfielder second this year.
Agreed. I have been a longtime critic of Ramsey and specifically his partnership with a DM like Coquelin (or worse, Flamini) that doesn't pass that well. Our team just breaks down if we don't have that passer in the middle to keep things ticking.
Not to prospect hump too much, but I love what Alex Iwobi has brought to the team too. He has tons of energy, speed, power, and good technical abilities. There are a lot of players that get bumped off the ball easily and he is not one of them. When you have three guys that are both strong on the ball and pacey up front, I think that's a winning formula with Özil. Iwobi seems to have an eye for goal that others lack. And that celebration...I don't know if I'd call it bad, but it's something. It's entertaining to say the least.
On Elneny, I certainly agree that he is coming into the side more. My favorite part of the game is his willing positioning. He is much better at sitting into spots when guys make runs forward than Coquelin. He has a good idea of where he needs to be, which is something that Ramsey certainly doesn't have and Coquelin can be lackadaisical on. While his passing has gotten better, he is extremely conservative. That's not necessarily always a bad thing because it means he keeps the ball in Arsenal's possession, but sometimes a player other than Özil has to make the killer pass. Obviously, not specifically in a game like this where it sometimes felt like a kick around. That would be my criticism at this point, though I do feel like it'll come as he continues to get more comfortable. You just need that kind of player springing the attack, not just making safe passes. That's what Mr. Cazorla does extremely well.
I missed these kinds of beautiful attack style dominant performances.
On Elneny, I certainly agree that he is coming into the side more. My favorite part of the game is his willing positioning. He is much better at sitting into spots when guys make runs forward than Coquelin. He has a good idea of where he needs to be, which is something that Ramsey certainly doesn't have and Coquelin can be lackadaisical on. While his passing has gotten better, he is extremely conservative. That's not necessarily always a bad thing because it means he keeps the ball in Arsenal's possession, but sometimes a player other than Özil has to make the killer pass. Obviously, not specifically in a game like this where it sometimes felt like a kick around. That would be my criticism at this point, though I do feel like it'll come as he continues to get more comfortable. You just need that kind of player springing the attack, not just making safe passes. That's what Mr. Cazorla does extremely well.
I missed these kinds of beautiful attack style dominant performances.
The silence here following that frustrating draw at West Ham - not that a draw at Upton Park isn't a decent result in and of itself, but failing to convert a 2-0 lead when you absolutely have to win to stay alive in the title race sucks - suggests we're all resigned to the inevitable. But that result has at least had one positive side effect for me personally: tickets on the secondary market for the rest of the season seem easier to come by, with the result that I've managed to snag two face-value tickets in the away end for Arsenal's match at Sunderland (about a two-hour drive from where I live in Scotland) on the 24th. This will be my eight-year-old son's first Arsenal match, and my first Arsenal away match, so that's very exciting...and particularly if Sunderland defeats Norwich this weekend, the home side will have a LOT to play for, so the atmosphere should be pretty good.
It's just that Arsenal's been 'doing an Arsenal' ever since the LC win. What more needs to be said?
Who even cares anymore? Another pointless season where they won nothing and never even really competed for anything.
...and finished ahead of Chelsea, Man U, and Man City, and are going back to the Champions League.
The next positive post you make about Arsenal will be your first.. You're amazingly consistent.
Edit: I mean really.. They beat Chelsea early to start their slide and win the community shield.. They've beat L.C. twice this year which nobody else has done.. They made it to the second round of the Champions League where they lost to Barcelona.. 'Oh the humanity!!!' .. And they're in position to finish in the top three again.. Most fans would die for a season that good.. Imagine for a second how it feels to follow Aston Villa or Newcastle... Or don't. It's frustrating that things didn't fall into place and dropping points to teams they shouldn't have.. But really with every post being more negative than the rest?
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Arsenal are not Aston Villa or Newcastle. Arsenal are one of the 10 biggest clubs in world football. Comparing the one to the other two is disingenuous at best.
i think the cause of this season's particular ire and misery is that at the start of the season if someone said, you'll finish above Utd, City and Chelsea, most fans would say 'and we win the league' - the caveat which no one mentioned is you might struggle with Spurs and Leicester City. It's about opportunity. This season was as good an opportunity to win the league as Arsenal are going to get. Utd, City, Chelsea are all going to retool to varying degrees in the off season and come back stronger, and Liverpool seem to be on the up and so too Spurs, so next season will be much tougher to win the league.
It's not like Arsenal don't have the money to challenge. So, i can totally understand the anger.
It's not like Arsenal don't have the money to challenge. So, i can totally understand the anger.
I'm not sure this is the thing I would choose to call Mike out on his negativity. Like Fletch said, Arsenal has the money to challenge (they spend that money worse than a small club with finite resources). The opportunity was there. I'm not sure there are many Arsenal fans on this board that would say this season hasn't been a disappointment.
Winning things:
Arsenal isn't going to win anything this year. The opportunity was there in the league. I myself thought they would do it after my trip to England in which I saw three home wins in person, though the warning signs were there (they struggled against Bournemouth and Newcastle, to be honest). Arsenal has struggled ever since (clearly due to my absence). Dropped points after dropped points, missed opportunity after missed opportunity. Arsenal isn't even guaranteed a Top Four spot with City and United both nipping at their heals.
The Champions League was a rough draw in that you got Bayern in the group and Barca in the Knockout. Regardless, you've got to be disappointed with both performances. Arsenal didn't completely struggle with Bayern, in fact, beating them in the first match. It was those dropped points in the first two games that made following the Champions League performances painful. I didn't expect anything from Barca, but the fact that Arsenal was able to stay with Barca for stretches and create goal scoring opportunities leave me lamenting the lack of quality up front. The best teams in the world have guys that take their opportunities. They have a Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Muller(!!!!), Aguero. Even Vardy and Kane, who [Kane] I'd take over Giroud anyway, have been better than anything Arsenal has had.
Style of play
Under Arsene Wenger, Arsenal has been known to play a pretty attacking style. Playing this way can make up for some of the results. I love me some good team goals with brilliant build ups. This year's team has struggled mightily to score goals at times. It hasn't just been about when the goals are going to come, it's been about how. There has been a severe lack of chances created, let alone chances taken. There's been a lot of slow side to side passing without a lot of inquisition. This makes it hard to see where goals are going to come from versus making chances and not converting them. That's been better lately with the insertion of Iwobi, but for large stretches of the season, this team has been a struggle to watch. I would say that this has been the most painful team to watch since the season after Cesc left. That first year with Arteta was like watching a team kneed bread for 90 minutes, Jesus. Heck, this team might be more frustrating because of the opportunity to win the league.
Play against Rivals
If you're not going to win the league, you at least want to beat your rivals or make progress as far as having better performances. Well, first and foremost, it looks like Arsenal isn't going to finish above Tottenham for the first time since 1995. That's failure in and of itself. They beat a subpar United side at the Emirates, a team that Arsenal has consistently struggled with, then followed that up with a cartoonish loss in which they gave up 2 goals to a debutant. I'll still give them progress on this due to past struggles. They lost both times to Chelsea. I don't want to speak about either of those games. I saw them beat City at the Emirates. It was a good performance. Arsenal have done alright against City over the years though. We'll have to see how that match at the Etihad goes. Also, Arsenal beat the club that looks like they're going to win the league twice. There's some good mixed with the bad.
Overall
The season has been disappointing. Arsenal isn't winning anything. They had a chance to take the league and fell off. They didn't progress any further in the Champions League. They played worse football. If it wasn't for the mighty struggles of the other "top" clubs, Arsenal might find themselves buried in the table. This isn't negativity, it's reality.
If we're looking for good, there have been good individual performances. Ozil has been good. Cech has been good when healthy. Nacho has established himself as one of the best fullbacks in the Premier League. Iwobi looks like he may be a gem. It hasn't been enough to lift the side though.
It's shitty to do a post mortem with plenty still at stake, but there's a ton of resignation in this thread already.
Winning things:
Arsenal isn't going to win anything this year. The opportunity was there in the league. I myself thought they would do it after my trip to England in which I saw three home wins in person, though the warning signs were there (they struggled against Bournemouth and Newcastle, to be honest). Arsenal has struggled ever since (clearly due to my absence). Dropped points after dropped points, missed opportunity after missed opportunity. Arsenal isn't even guaranteed a Top Four spot with City and United both nipping at their heals.
The Champions League was a rough draw in that you got Bayern in the group and Barca in the Knockout. Regardless, you've got to be disappointed with both performances. Arsenal didn't completely struggle with Bayern, in fact, beating them in the first match. It was those dropped points in the first two games that made following the Champions League performances painful. I didn't expect anything from Barca, but the fact that Arsenal was able to stay with Barca for stretches and create goal scoring opportunities leave me lamenting the lack of quality up front. The best teams in the world have guys that take their opportunities. They have a Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Muller(!!!!), Aguero. Even Vardy and Kane, who [Kane] I'd take over Giroud anyway, have been better than anything Arsenal has had.
Style of play
Under Arsene Wenger, Arsenal has been known to play a pretty attacking style. Playing this way can make up for some of the results. I love me some good team goals with brilliant build ups. This year's team has struggled mightily to score goals at times. It hasn't just been about when the goals are going to come, it's been about how. There has been a severe lack of chances created, let alone chances taken. There's been a lot of slow side to side passing without a lot of inquisition. This makes it hard to see where goals are going to come from versus making chances and not converting them. That's been better lately with the insertion of Iwobi, but for large stretches of the season, this team has been a struggle to watch. I would say that this has been the most painful team to watch since the season after Cesc left. That first year with Arteta was like watching a team kneed bread for 90 minutes, Jesus. Heck, this team might be more frustrating because of the opportunity to win the league.
Play against Rivals
If you're not going to win the league, you at least want to beat your rivals or make progress as far as having better performances. Well, first and foremost, it looks like Arsenal isn't going to finish above Tottenham for the first time since 1995. That's failure in and of itself. They beat a subpar United side at the Emirates, a team that Arsenal has consistently struggled with, then followed that up with a cartoonish loss in which they gave up 2 goals to a debutant. I'll still give them progress on this due to past struggles. They lost both times to Chelsea. I don't want to speak about either of those games. I saw them beat City at the Emirates. It was a good performance. Arsenal have done alright against City over the years though. We'll have to see how that match at the Etihad goes. Also, Arsenal beat the club that looks like they're going to win the league twice. There's some good mixed with the bad.
Overall
The season has been disappointing. Arsenal isn't winning anything. They had a chance to take the league and fell off. They didn't progress any further in the Champions League. They played worse football. If it wasn't for the mighty struggles of the other "top" clubs, Arsenal might find themselves buried in the table. This isn't negativity, it's reality.
If we're looking for good, there have been good individual performances. Ozil has been good. Cech has been good when healthy. Nacho has established himself as one of the best fullbacks in the Premier League. Iwobi looks like he may be a gem. It hasn't been enough to lift the side though.
It's shitty to do a post mortem with plenty still at stake, but there's a ton of resignation in this thread already.
Whenever Arsene wants to hire me as a scout you guys need to give him my contact info.
On the current topic, it is easy to lament another blown chance at the league especially with wins over the probable winners but this is everyone's lament this season. We all feel like an opportunity was blown with Leicester winning but that team ha grinder out result after result. It's a shocking name to see up there but they've had title winning form with only 3 losses in the league. It's sort of unfair of all teams to feel like an opportunity was missed because quite frankly Leicester have not left much of an opening. Of all the teams, at least Arsenal can say they did their part to open the door with two results against Leicester.
As is often the case, injury dictates so much of what happens in the table. Your overall squad depth wasn't there to compete on all fronts and relying on some of the usual suspects to not get injured did you in. I think Wenger is a fantastic manager and gets too much grief for things that are largely out of his control but his inability to understand the depth that is needed to dine with the very best is in my opinion his biggest flaw. Whether through youth promotion or depth signings, you just can't start a season with the lack of depth Arsenal keeps trying to begin with and expect to compete on all fronts. Aside from striker, I don't think it's a question of breaking the bank on stars, more a need to have real depth with competent PL footballers
What this season really demonstrated was the definitive failure of Wenger's plan to build a team around the British core. I don't think we lost the league because we had no depth. We lost the league because our depth was Wilshere (by far the best of these players but injured all year), Ramsey (completely unable/unwilling to be the midfield engine for a possession-based team), Ox (athletic freak and a great dude with a football IQ near zero), and Theo (speedy finisher who couldn't finish and doesn't offer much else).