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Angel Hernandez, files racial discrimination suit against MLB

Discussion in 'MLB Discussion' started by soxhop411, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...al-discrimination-suit-against-mlb/449010001/
     
  2. twibnotes

    twibnotes Member SoSH Member

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    If MLB is indeed racist, barring Angel Hernandez from the WS is not the proof. The guy's terrible.
     
  3. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    If Angel Hernandez is getting high marks for his umpiring then they need to fix how they grade umpires because it's broken
     
  4. Comfortably Lomb

    Comfortably Lomb Koko the Monkey SoSH Member

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    Yea, this. He and CB Bucknor are basically the gold standard for incompetence in the field of officiating.
     
  5. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers SoSH Member

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    That he's a bad ump doesn't also necessarily mean he's wrong on this. He could absolutely be wrong on his own lack of promotions (which are probably justified) while being correct on the macro level.
     
  6. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah that's where I come out. He obviously has a point with the lack of minority umpires; while that's a legitimate issue I don't think that means he should be calling WS games since, as everyone has pointed out, he's not a good umpire at all.
     
  7. Hank Scorpio

    Hank Scorpio Member SoSH Member

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    Didn't Angel Hernandez cost some scrub pitcher a perfect game by missing a very easy call at first base?
     
  8. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No
     
  9. mauidano

    mauidano Mai Tais for everyone! SoSH Member

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    26,854
  10. SumnerH

    SumnerH Malt Liquor Picker Dope

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  11. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers SoSH Member

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  12. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    They also both wrote a book about it




    Nobody's Perfect: Two Men, One Call, and a Game for Baseball History
     
  13. glennhoffmania

    glennhoffmania but still failing Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Sure, but he's suing on his own behalf, claiming that worse umps than him have been given the assignments. That's complete nonsense since there probably aren't any umps worse than him. Maybe MLB is in fact racist but it sucks that the worst umpire of any race is the one to make a stink about it, because it kind of removes all credibility from the argument.
     
  14. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers SoSH Member

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    It pulls the wind out of the sails with regard to his argument that he is due backpay. It has no bearing on the claim that MLB has been racist in their promoting of umpires over the years.
     
  15. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

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    It's worth looking into, and shame on MLB if it's deliberate, but dear god, please just don't let even worse umpires in just to make the numbers look better. Hire the best candidates.
     
  16. glennhoffmania

    glennhoffmania but still failing Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I agree but that really wasn't my point. He isn't suing to get a determination that MLB is racist. He's suing to get a monetary award based on the claim that he was screwed over because shittier umps got assignments that he deserved. So when he loses, because he's a shitty ump, it'll only be used as ammunition to argue that MLB is in fact not racist, even if it really is.
     
  17. Hendu for Kutch

    Hendu for Kutch Member SoSH Member

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    I feel like there's a "discrimination against the blind" joke in here somewhere, but I can't quite cobble it together.
     
  18. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers SoSH Member

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    I don't agree. The two can be parsed out pretty easily. And if MLB can use his shitty umpiring to win their case against him on the micro level, they can't then ignore that case in arguing that there isn't a larger issue and Hernandez losing demonstrates that.

    In winning one case, they damage their ability to win on a larger scale.
     
  19. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

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    Interesting nugget from his wiki.

    "In a 1999 Major League Baseball Players Association survey, Hernández was ranked 31st out of 36 National League umpires.[2] However, later that year, Hernández was asked to return for the 2000 season while 13 of his NL colleagues were let go. Given his ranking, the Philadelphia Inquirer termed the retention of Hernández one of the "surprises" of the 1999 purge"

    He was a newer ump at that time, so maybe they wanted to keep the younger blood.

    FWIW he has been to two series, I had assumed none.
    Then again - Joe West has been in 6 which would tell me I'm in the wrong profession.
     
  20. Jnai

    Jnai is not worried about sex with goats SoSH Member

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    It's also possible that, as he says, MLB has objective grades, his are good or better than his peers, and he is being passed over. The grading scheme used to judge balls and strikes has been very weird for years. It seems likely that some similarly strange criteria has been negotiated for the rest of their job.
     
  21. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    Of course, this is the same Jim Joyce who initially ruled that Bellhorn's home run was a double off the wall in game 6 of the 2004 ALCS.

    I don't see individual umps enough to render judgement, but Joyce is not high on my list from what I know of him.
     
  22. richgedman'sghost

    richgedman'sghost Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This is basically my opinion of Country Joe West. The fact that he correctly was able to convince Joyce to overturn the 2 bad calls in the ALCS does not absolve him of all his sins and incomptence although it does move him up on my umpire list. West is certainly several rungs above Angel Hernandez
     
  23. Spacemans Bong

    Spacemans Bong chapeau rose SoSH Member

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    Joyce was an ump for over 25 years, IIRC, he was going to blow a call now and again. But he was always ranked as one of the best umpires by the players.

    West isn't actually bad at his job, he's just an asshole. And as a long-departed poster with first-hand experience claimed here, he does feel bad when he blows a call.

    Likewise, I really think one of the ways CB Bucknor holds onto his job despite being maybe the worst umpire in MLB in terms of eyesight is that he's a pretty low key guy who doesn't seem to pick fights. Players seem to accept when CB's around that they'll get some head scratching calls and they'll get to say their piece to him and move on.

    But Hernandez is the worst, because he's got CB Bucknor's lack of acumen and a hair-trigger temper and a proclivity to umpshow and run guys. That probably explains his lack of postseason assignments more than anything. MLB's probably petrified of a terrible balls and strikes performance PLUS ejecting a star player for looking at him funny in a close game. That's the kind of thing he does.
     
  24. Mueller's Twin Grannies

    Mueller's Twin Grannies Member SoSH Member

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    Why is there a comma in the title? Did Hernandez create this thread?

    (Note: that's an incompetence joke, nothing more)
     
  25. adam42381

    adam42381 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'm torn. I hate both Torre and Hernandez so I don't know who I want to win this. I guess I'm pulling for MLB. If it's resolved by giving more important games to Hernandez, we all lose.
     
  26. simplicio

    simplicio Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    I imagine MLB has to settle this just to keep their umpire performance reviews and methods from being publicly disclosed as part of discovery or something, right?
     
  27. Montana Fan

    Montana Fan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Umpire Brian Knight (called Lester's 2008 no hitter during his first visit to Fenway) is from Helena and his dad is a regular visitor at a local establishment to watch his boy call games. I met him a couple years ago and we chatted for about 1/2 hour. He showed me a report card, on his phone, that the home plate ump receives after each game they call (I assume "position" umps get one too) and Knight received an A+ for the job he did that night. He was graded as having missed one pitch (the other pitcher) and having one borderline pitch (Lester). The dad is also an ump and he was extremely proud of the job his son did that night. He said that the level of excitement in the stadium was the most intense his son had ever witnessed.

    The report card is texted or emailed to each HP ump after the game. I don't recall the detail of it but it showed % of pitches called accurately for each pitcher, etc...
     
  28. Bergs

    Bergs Member SoSH Member

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    Angel Hernandez is the worst home plate umpire I've ever seen. (Bucknor is the worst base umpire) . It's hilarious he's blaming anyone other than himself here.
     
  29. strek1

    strek1 Member SoSH Member

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    I thought it was April 1st when I saw this headline. Angel IS one of the worst if not THE worst. So because he's a minority he should keep his job and get raises even though he stinks at it?
     
  30. strek1

    strek1 Member SoSH Member

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    Also, after Pablo Sandoval gets dumped he has a better chance to win a weight discrimination lawsuit than Angel does his case.
     
  31. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Is there a larger issue? It seems you're insinuating there is. You have numbers?

    (I'm not being snarky here, swear to God)
     
  32. Dick Drago

    Dick Drago Member SoSH Member

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    I remember he had a long running feud with Jeter:

    http://nypost.com/2004/08/12/ump-looks-to-be-no-angel-in-jeter-spat/

    http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2010/04/dustin-pedroia-on-angel-hernandez.html?m=1

    Far be it for me to stick up for DJ, but watching the Yankees it seemed clear that Hernandez disliked him, and went out of his way to be confrontational, not just in the two incidents mentioned above.

    He always has seemed to me to be very defensive and aggressive when calls are questioned by players. Very unprofessional, similar to Ken Kaiser in that way.
     
  33. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    I accept that umps blow calls. And I accept that Joyce may be highly rated. However, My only real impressions of Joyce involve him blowing two of the easier plays I've ever seen and insisting in real time that he was correct. (In fairness, he handled the perfect game fiasco about as well as possible.)

    Thank God that only one of those blown calls was allowed to stand.
     
  34. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers SoSH Member

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    That I've documented personally? No. I'm just saying that if there is a larger issue, Hernandez losing his case on a personal level because he's objectively a shitty ump doesn't damage the credibility of a larger case, should one happen.
     
  35. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    6,713
    They left the ADA violations out of the suit initially, but they're going to look at it in the replay booth and maybe re-file.
     
  36. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

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  37. mauidano

    mauidano Mai Tais for everyone! SoSH Member

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  38. MakeMineMoxie

    MakeMineMoxie Member SoSH Member

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    My admiration for Ian Kinsler just went up considerably.
     
  39. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Anyone seen any pitchFX from this game? When I pull up this game, the info isn't loading.
     
  40. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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    I checked the same thing earlier and it wasn't loading for me, either.
     
  41. Bergs

    Bergs Member SoSH Member

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    It's up now. Not the worst I've ever seen, but pretty bad.
     
  42. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    Still not working for me. You sure? Monday the 14th, right?
     
  43. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    I watched the clip and read the article, and Kinsler's overarching point may or may not still stand, but he was totally out of line there.

    The first pitch, the one that was called a strike, wasn't *that* low based on the graphic in the lower right corner. Maybe enough to question it, but not enough to justify his comment. Then, to be like "oh, what about that one" on the following pitch is just a dick move. I'd have tossed his ass out, too.

    This isn't a defense of Hernandez in general, just that specific at-bat. I think Kinsler just came off like a child there.
     
  44. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Wasn't Kinsler point though that it wasn't just that AB? It's all the time?
     
  45. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    After the game, sure. But that was a heat of the moment hissy fit and he was in the wrong. If this was something he wanted to bring up as a long-term issue, that wasn't the best time to do it.

    I have no doubt this was something that has been brewing for a long time. And I have no doubt that Angel Hernandez is a shitty umpire who is kind of a dick. I just don't think this was the best way to handle it. It reminds me of a kid that's sick of his little brother, punches him in the face over something small then cries to his mother about all of the horrible things his little brother did in the past to deserve it.

    Edit: Either way, robot umpires.
     
  46. Bergs

    Bergs Member SoSH Member

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    My bad...I thought it was last night's game.
     
  47. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    When's the right time to do it? He said he believed Hernandez missed eight obvious call in the game, presumably by the fifth inning. His team's out of the playoffs, he's losing a meaningless game 5-2, and he appeared to have a legitimate gripe about the prior pitch. So he made a sarcastic comment. That's hardly a hissy fit. The hissy fit is hitting the autoejection button without a personal attack, without any profanity, when you're a crap umpire and when you just blew a cal.
     
  48. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    If Kinsler really means it in earnest, then it's admirable that he spoke up. But it's hard for me not to see it as a justification for getting himself thrown out of the game.

    I'm not sure he blew a call here. The one that caused the first sarcastic comment looked pretty borderline. Certainly not egregious. He got his shot in then and Hernandez took it. The following pitch and insulting sarcastic comment was over the line. I think just about any ump would react to that. Some might just get pissed and give a warning, but I don't think Hernandez is the only one who would throw someone out for that.

    He may not have said any actual swears, but was still kind of a fuck you.
     
    #48 drbretto, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  49. sean1562

    sean1562 Member SoSH Member

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    this a vid of some of kindler's other ABs during that game.



    he was pissed about other calls that went against him throughout the game
     
  50. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    OK, some of those were definitely bad.
     

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