American Horror Story - 2023 Red Sox Lineup

[BaseballJones]

You're just making arbitrary decisions on how to judge "best." I was going by the parameters set by the poster, WS, and noted where they fell. Have fun spinning, though

The person you replied to said this: "Most of the WS champions over the last 10 years have not been big market spenders, but, rather, the guys who build with young, controllable talent, then fill in the gaps in trades and free agency. Bloom is right on the money."

He didn't set any parameters. He just used the phrase "big market spenders", which is obviously open to interpretation. You - not the poster you replied to - implied that top 10 in spending represented the "big market spenders", or else your post makes no sense otherwise.

And I was pointing out that you can look at that very same data another way. Which is, of course, true. Your post is 100% correct. So is mine.

 

[phineas gage]

I can see Devers asking to be traded.

I think given how things stand, Devers has to be traded. We are close to blow-it-up stage now anyways. If Devers can net 2-3 good young players, maybe you have to do it.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The person you replied to said this: "Most of the WS champions over the last 10 years have not been big market spenders, but, rather, the guys who build with young, controllable talent, then fill in the gaps in trades and free agency. Bloom is right on the money."

He didn't set any parameters. He just used the phrase "big market spenders", which is obviously open to interpretation. You - not the poster you replied to - implied that top 10 in spending represented the "big market spenders", or else your post makes no sense otherwise.

And I was pointing out that you can look at that very same data another way. Which is, of course, true. Your post is 100% correct. So is mine.

Mine's more right than yours, though

 

[BaseballJones]

Mine's more right than yours, though

LOL

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

I think given how things stand, Devers has to be traded. We are close to blow-it-up stage now anyways. If Devers can net 2-3 good young players, maybe you have to do it.

To be clear, I think that "as things stand" we should lock Devers up with basically whatever it takes. Using the Astros and Braves as an example (and they're a good one) he's their version of Alex Bregman or Austin Riley. You don't let a player like that go. You find a deal and extend him to build around. This is what I want them to do. I have no idea if we'll do it, but I want them to. Riley just signed for 10yrs / $212m. I think Devers being closer to FA and having a longer track record would cost more, but 10yrs/$275m seems reasonable - that's a higher AAV than Trea Turner just got with the second most lucrative deal on the FA market. Maybe you have to go 10/$300m but I think it's worth it.

If the Red Sox aren't willing to go that high - or if they are and Devers says "no", then I agree, you have to trade him this off-season. There is a very low likelihood of this team being able to add enough to be a serious title contender this season, and you cannot let him walk for nothing "because we're two games out of the last wild card" while being last in the division and dependent on the return of a pitcher whom has thrown less than 50ip over the past 3 seasons.

To be clear, do everything to extend him first. But if he's not willing to sign for something in the realm of the second highest deal this off-season OR the Sox aren't willing to go there trade him, assuredly.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

To be clear, I think that "as things stand" we should lock Devers up with basically whatever it takes. Using the Astros and Braves as an example (and they're a good one) he's their version of Alex Bregman or Austin Riley. You don't let a player like that go. You find a deal and extend him to build around. This is what I want them to do. I have no idea if we'll do it, but I want them to. Riley just signed for 10yrs / $212m. I think Devers being closer to FA and having a longer track record would cost more, but 10yrs/$275m seems reasonable - that's a higher AAV than Trea Turner just got with the second most lucrative deal on the FA market. Maybe you have to go 10/$300m but I think it's worth it.

If the Red Sox aren't willing to go that high - or if they are and Devers says "no", then I agree, you have to trade him this off-season. There is a very low likelihood of this team being able to add enough to be a serious title contender this season, and you cannot let him walk for nothing "because we're two games out of the last wild card" while being last in the division and dependent on the return of a pitcher whom has thrown less than 50ip over the past 3 seasons.

To be clear, do everything to extend him first. But if he's not willing to sign for something in the realm of the second highest deal this off-season OR the Sox aren't willing to go there trade him, assuredly.

I'm leaning more and more towards this. Devers is young enough that a long term deal should be okay even if he has to move to DH. I could also see him still spotting 3B and/or 1B early in games to give future 3B and Casas (hopefully signed to a long term deal) breaks at the corners occasionally without a horrible drop in defense. They really need an anchor to build the future around even if they end up with "drek" at SS this season and trade half the other veterans at the deadline. Thinking of Ortiz being the one constant from '03 until their playoff run in '16... It'll be an overpay, no doubt, for 10/300 but the team really should have the financial flexibility to do that even with a hard Henry spending cap if they don't go for it this year and get Correa.

 

[Ganthem]

There is.no.chance Devera is taking 10 300. Start with 10 350 and go from there if you want to keep him.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

There is.no.chance Devera is taking 10 300. Start with 10 350 and go from there if you want to keep him.

I seriously hope they make the best possible offer (12/400-425?) in the next few weeks and lock him down or trade him for the best possible package (Lopez from Miami?) so we can all move along. The negativity in so many threads (especially since losing Xander) has been depressing. Dragging this out with Devers for another year only makes it worse.

 

[jose melendez]

Does anyone who actually watched last year have any sense on whether we can get anything now, or ever out of Downs and Wong. They both stunk in the majors last year, but both were pretty productive at the AAA level.

 

[simplicio]

There is.no.chance Devera is taking 10 300. Start with 10 350 and go from there if you want to keep him.

I think to a certain extent any major contract at this point depends on what Correa gets. As the premier non-Judge FA going into the offseason, his signing is going to say a lot about where the market actually stands.

I see Devers at 300-320, or 20m over what Correa ends up with, whichever is higher.

 

[brandonchristensen]

I think the Yoshida signing is indicative of a forthcoming Verdugo deal. Not sure who they'd be targeting, presumably a RHH. They could definitely use a RF/RHH that can play defense. I'm not seeing that guy in their system closer than Bleis and he's a good 3-4 years away.

Yay. One of the remaining players on the team that I like.

 

[brandonchristensen]

What annoys me about the Devers situation is that he’s a bonafide star. What are the chances that any of the Sox prospects - even Mayer - perform like him?

So we are willing to bail on a proven force, who is still super young, in favor for some guys who may or may not come even close to realizing their potential.

If Devers was 28+ I would understand the hesitancy.

 

[Rovin Romine]

That line up is terrible and will get murdered by LHP.

Which is probably why you won't see that lineup against LHP.

 

[RobertsSteal]

Wondering if one of the more knowledgable folks on here could weigh in about the possibility of adding Trey Mancini. I’m a casual fan these days (for some reasons that are both obvious and less so), but I recall him being a solid professional hitter with some punch who can possibly cover some 1B/LF + DH. If he could be had cheap — and still has some mojo — I could see him being an improvement (certainly over Dalbec).

 

[simplicio]

Mancini is pretty bad, I don't think he's an upgrade at all.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Mancini is pretty bad, I don't think he's an upgrade at all.

Mancini and Will Myers are in a category of their own

 

[RobertsSteal]

Mancini and Will Myers are in a category of their own

Didn’t realize he’d fallen off so much. My last memory is of him making a triumphant return from cancer. Maybe I fell in love with the narrative plus his old days of peppering the Monster.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Didn’t realize he’d fallen off so much. My last memory is of him making a triumphant return from cancer. Maybe I fell in love with the narrative plus his old days of peppering the Monster.

Oh, that's understood. And both he and Myers might make sense as platoon options for Casas/Hosmer ... but I can't see either getting regular at-bats

 

[KillerBs]

I think either Myers or Mancini would be good adds with where we are now. Right handed hitting 1b corner OFers, who are at least league average hitters. Some real upside with both of them, i think.

Mancini's horrific last couple months in Houston gives me pause though.

 

[Super Nomario]

Does anyone who actually watched last year have any sense on whether we can get anything now, or ever out of Downs and Wong. They both stunk in the majors last year, but both were pretty productive at the AAA level.

Jeter Downs? Who hit .197 for Worcester? Or is there another Downs I'm not recalling?

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Here's Wil Myers home/road split for 2022:
Home: 141 PA, .208/,284/.304
Road: 145 PA, .309/.345/.485

In the first half, he hit .234/.276/.307 in 134 PA overall.
He was out for June and July, then when he came back, he hit .285/.349/.482 overall in 152 PA.

In 100 PA against lefties (both home and road) he had a 126 OPS+.
He played 25 games at first base and 52 in the OF last year.

His Marcel projection for 2023 is a .747 OPS in 393 PA. Steamer says .721. Can't find ZiPS for him yet.

Seems like a guy who should do better in a different park and might be a good candidate for a one-year make-good contract.

He also just turned 32 today, so happy birthday Wil, hope you got another L for your first name as a birthday present.

 

[jose melendez]

Jeter Downs? Who hit .197 for Worcester? Or is there another Downs I'm not recalling?

Oops... Might of looked at his Scottsdale stats.

 

[4 6 3 DP]

I'm simultaneously on the "Bloom is over his head" and the "they will put a legitimate product on the field in 2023" bandwagon so my take is there are several moves left for this lineup. I wouldn't spend up at ss, I'd buy defense there, trade verdugo, put legit bats in right and at dh, and then hope casas is able to hit at a solid level. At that point you've got 7 solid bats plus McGuire and the SS, and with a good bullpen, they can contend that way.

 

[Benj4ever]

You're just making arbitrary decisions on how to judge "best." I was going by the parameters set by the poster, WS champions weren't "big market spenders," and noted where they fell. Have fun spinning, though

And have fun figuring out what "big market spenders" means! There are no "parameters" in my comment, you just made them up. BaseBall Jones' definition is excellent, and it leaves your arbitrary cut-off point in the dust! Further, you will note that the teams who've won have done so by the hybrid method - building from within, while filling in the gaps in free agency, not by leading the league in payroll every year!

 

[nighthob]

Jeter Downs? Who hit .197 for Worcester? Or is there another Downs I'm not recalling?

Did he have a good fall league season maybe? Jeter Downer might just be a AA player.

 

[Tim Salmon]

Did he have a good fall league season maybe? Jeter Downer might just be a AA player.

He had a .146/.263/.188 line in 16 games in the Puerto Rican Winter League and was released by the team on 12/2. Strikeouts in 1/3 of his plate appearances (19/57). Even with crappy offensive numbers across the league, that's bad.