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AFCCG: Pats at Chiefs Buildup

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. loshjott

    loshjott Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    NFL never called that back then.
     
  2. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Mike Vrabel likes this...
     
  3. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    Watching the game with a clear head vs being a gigantic ball of stress, the Chefs secondary does a shit ton of holding. I guess their attitude is the same as the Seahawks; they can't call holding on every play.

    Dorsett got mugged in the end zone on that TD catch, no call, great catch by him. Gronk got held a number of times, a jersey pull here, a jersey tug there, one time down the field he was being mauled the entire time, no call. Hogan was being held on that tremendous one handed catch he made too.

    Also, the Chefs do a lot of OPI without getting called on it, one on a late TD, another on what should have been a TD to make the score 7-7 but Mahomes overthrew a wide open receiver. Both times Romo pointed it out.

    And speaking of him, he's actually a great analyst, he was calling Patriots plays before they happened, specifically three throws to Edelman down the middle of the field, he also called the throw to Gronk down the sideline where Gronk made a nice grab, shitty spot on that play too by the way.
     
  4. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    That fade to Gronk is still such an amazing play to me. That just shows you the ultimate trust Brady and Gronk have in each other. With the season on the line, as Saban says players are more important than plays. That was just McDaniels putting his trust in the 2 best players on the field and Brady trusting Gronk to come down with the ball.
     
  5. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I know ... but it makes me feel better to feel this way
     
  6. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    The throwaway with :16 left boggles my mind. Why wouldn't they have just ran a quick out to the sideline and give themselves another play before having to kick a FG? Instead, Mahomes just throws it out of the end zone and they kick it with :11 left.
     
  7. Wilco's Last Fan

    Wilco's Last Fan Member SoSH Member

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    At the start of OT, some Chiefs fan is holding a sign that says “The Changing of the Baton Starts Now.”

    That...is not the correct phrase.
     
  8. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know why they didn't run another play with 11 secs left.
     
  9. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I mean, can't really argue with him.
     
  10. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Just watched the replay and that game should have been a 17-20 point blow-out.

    The Chiefs last TD was a fucking gift from the refs. Four incomplete passes, a bogus D-holding call that wiped out a fumble recovery, an iffy DPI call for 25 yards, and a OPI-pick play for 40 yards, (how the fuck was thatnot called?) was the TD drive.

    Suck it refs.
     
  11. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    The worst call/non-call of the game was on the Dorsett TD. He was completely mugged and the defender never turned his back. Maybe the ref throws it if dropped, but that’s not what he’s supposed to do. It was egregious.
     
  12. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    For some reason I thought of John Madden’s fire ‘em up phrase to his players before hitting the field:

    “Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.”
     
  13. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    It was just the end of the half, but Pete Carroll ran one more play in SB 49 with 6 seconds left and they scored the touchdown. Good thing was that it got Kyle Arrington pushed down toward the end of the bench. I thought of that Seattle play at the 11 second point and figured KC would definitely run another play. Nope.
     
  14. JokersWildJIMED

    JokersWildJIMED Blinded by Borges SoSH Member

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    Sort of like the two fourth down plays a few years back in Denver as time was running out...just pure greatness.
     
  15. loshjott

    loshjott Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Exactly, and the McGinest helmet to helmet hit on Warner that made the cover of SI after the game.
     
  16. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Give them 2 chances to run a FG? Bad snap, the holder gets up and throws an incomplete pass? Or maybe not trusting the young QB to not scramble around to make a play and waste too much time?
     
  17. CantKeepmedown

    CantKeepmedown Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, Mahomes had already taken a couple of bad sacks. And the Pats had dropped like 6 defenders back in the end zone. Believe me, I'm glad they did it too because I was terrified of a DPI call to put them on the 1. But I think they were playing it ultra safe.
     
  18. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    This is insane, though. What if the receiver somehow gets tackled in bounds? The game could end. It was an almost impossible situation for the Chiefs there, it was so much downside and only a miracle chance of upside.
     
  19. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I'm guessing they were probably 5-10 yards or so away from running another play. Throwing a TD from the 21 when everyone is back is really tough but if you're at the 10-15 yard line, you have a much better chance of firing a strike into the end zone. I will say that the play with 16 seconds was absolutely horrifying to watch, even though it wasn't close.
     
  20. koufax32

    koufax32 He'll cry if he wants to... SoSH Member

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    This isn’t rocket surgery.
     
  21. Beale13

    Beale13 lurker

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    The whole point of focusing on the Dee Ford offsides is that it negated the interception, but isn't it entirely possible that Brady knew Ford was offsides and doesn't throw that exact throw if he didn't know he had a free play? The ref had his hand on his flag before the ball was hiked and he threw the flag a split second after it was hiked, all within the peripheral vision of Brady. Maybe Brady still throws it to Gronk there, but I'm sure his focus on making a perfect throw was different knowing it didn't matter if it failed. Granted, the Ford offsides is still important because the next play is a 3rd and 5 instead of a 4th and 10, but I don't think we can be so sure that it definitively changed the outcome of the game.
     
  22. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Brady said he didn't know.

    And people say "You got lucky" and my response is that is not luck. That is Dee Ford knowing he needs to get to Brady quickly because if not Brady will generally rip the defense apart.
     
  23. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    Aside from him saying he didn't know. I was convinced he didn't see the flag / know Ford was offside because he threw what was basically a hot route to Gronk. It was a quick, short, throw. Certainly not one you'd make when you know you have a free play. Also, if he had looked to his left, he would have seen 1.) the flag and 2.) James White wide open with about 15 yds of space in front of him
     
  24. Beale13

    Beale13 lurker

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    Ah, I didn't realize he acknowledged not knowing. The other points are well-taken, especially the fact that Ford's offsides was a natural consequence of Brady's quick decisions all game.
     
  25. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    Here is the video of Mahomes missing Williams with 16 seconds left. This was a very bad read.

     
  26. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I bet Reid said "end zone is your only read, if not there throw it away".
     
  27. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Not insane at all, though. The out route was wide-ass open to the 10 yard line with 10 or 11 seconds left. Then, you can try a quick fade to the end zone to either Kelce or Watkins that if incomplete it takes another 5 seconds. If they don't get a TD, they kick the FG. Pretty simple.
     
  28. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    And what happens if he's sacked? Not so simple, because then it's game over. Or what if there is a hold? The downside was very high, the upside was a slim chance at a miracle.
     
  29. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    A miracle is the MVP throwing an out to a wide open WR so he can run out of bounds then completing a 15-20 yard pass to either of the 2 big WRs in the end zone? I get what you're saying about a sack and the game ending on that, but that's why you are throwing passes that are quick throws. Line up in the gun, 1-2 steps back, and it's out of Mahomes' hands. Mahomes clearly wasn't even looking at the underneath routes because if he was he wouldn't have air mailed it out of the end zone. There was not a Patriot within 10 yards of the underneath KC player. He could have gotten the ball and ran towards the sideline picking up another 5 yards in the process before stepping out.
     
  30. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Okay--if he's the MVP and can easily make these throws, why didn't he do it?

    Because his coaching staff likely told him not to try.
     
  31. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    And he was about 12-15 yards from the sideline when ther ball was thrown. Not inconceivable that he could have been tackled inbounds.
    I do think they had time to run two plays there and if I'm a Chief fan I probably would have been yelling for them to but I can understand why they didn't.
    Young QB and defense has brought some pressure. Safe call there but also a good argument that it is the correct call.
     
  32. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Sure. But what if he stumbles? Or underthrows the receiver, who instinctively tries to catch the ball and goes to the ground and is tackled in bounds? Or what if, despite planning on releasing fast, he gets sacked? All of those might end the game.

    The thing is, the chance for a TD was very low. Nearly impossible and any pass to the end zone is an INT risk. Whereas the downside is the game ends and you've lost. I understand why they tried once and it was clear there was nothing there.

    So they kicked.
     
  33. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Yeah, the only choices here are:

    1--He's the MVP and can easily make that throw but somehow missed the 2 guys wide open running underneath that the Patriots were letting them have.

    or

    2--His coaches were acutely aware that only 1 thing going wrong--penalty, slip, bad throw, deflected pass, tackled, etc.--means the game is just about over at worst or it's not a nearly 50 yard FG.


    The fact that those 2 guys were SO open means the Patriots really didn't think they'd do it either. It was one look towards the end zone, Pats were everywhere, throw it away.
     
  34. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    I think on that particular play the edge pressure could have been the difference. Williams hasn't yet turned his head around and Mahomes has to get rid of the ball probably a 1/2 second quicker than he wants or risk getting his arm hit and a potential INT or strip sack.
    Amazing that the 3 interior OL all block one defender on that play and NE generates good pressure with just a 3 man rush.
     
  35. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Yeah, mixed metaphors are a horse of a different feather.
     
  36. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Exactly.

    i also wonder given Reid's reputation for fucking up the clock/situational football, played into his gameplanning the last 16 seconds. IMO there was zero chance he was going to blow tieing the game by throwing short and hoping for a better outcome.
     
  37. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah I think there was just too much downside risk to try for another play at 11 seconds. At 16 seconds, it is still possible to clock it if he accidentally gets sacked or is even dumb enough to throw a short middle pass. It would be close but it's possible. At 11 seconds it is no longer possible. Add in the risk of an endzone INT and offensive penalties and it's easy to see why they kicked with 11 seconds.

    They prob try another play if they had hit the 10-15 yard out but Mahomes wasn't even looking there.
     
  38. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    I think the overall issue here is that the Chiefs played it ultra safe when that never beats the Pats.

    Or maybe Mahomes made a rookie mistake, he had plenty in the first half before Reid adjusted. Mahomes still being a rookie was a big factor in this game.
     
  39. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    FWIW, here’s how things went down with the Steelers in last years regular season game.

    - 28 seconds left after the James incompletion. They dump it off to Heyward-Bey for 3 yards, tackled in bounds

    - Running clock, they get the ill-fated fake spike snap off with 9 seconds left.

    So it took 19 seconds for them to run a play and then get hurry up and get the next snap off.

    I think the Chiefs handled it correctly. They took one low-percentage shot where Mahomes made one read and essentially just chucked it away when it wasn’t open. If they completed something short and OOB with 9-10 seconds left, they’d still be in a similar position but with even less margin for error. We saw Brady screw it up this year.
     
  40. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Which Pats game was it this season (Steelers?) where Brady totally screwed up clock management on almost this exact same situation, except it was end of half instead of end of game, but similar in terms of no TO's, short field, little time left?

    And Brady may be the best in the business, but even he blew that one.

    I am 100% with the group that agrees that KC played it right. Get the tie, take your chances in OT.
     
  41. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    It was Miami.
     
  42. kartvelo

    kartvelo Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    There was contact, so questionable. The un-called laying out of Edelman on the same play more than makes up for it.
     
  43. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Doesn't that happen after the INT, not on the roughing play
     
  44. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

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    Edelman didn't get 'laid out' but you can certainly argue that it was interference. At about 0:02 in the video:

     
  45. kartvelo

    kartvelo Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Agh. Different plays, yes. My aging memory fails me again. But an egregious non-call.

    Edit: see post #174 in the Game Ball thread for the play I was thinking of
     
    #645 kartvelo, Jan 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  46. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Have we seen all-11 footage of that play? There was nothing on the game broadcast to indicate interference (other than Jules asking for it). I can't see nearly enough to say.
     
  47. DourDoerr

    DourDoerr Well-Known Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I looked at the Jones' roughing penalty play again. It was an insane clubbing. He brought his arm fully up to 12 o'clock and brought it down with full force and hit Brady's facemark (grazed really - but enough to visually move it) and smashed down on his chest just before he released the ball. He then hits up into Brady's neck/lower jaw with his forearm - all with an OL pushing him back in the opposite direction. The dramatic clubbing action most likely caught the ref's eye initially. A note on Article 9 gives a lot of leeway ("tactic?") to the ref. If Jones had just brought his arm up to, say, 10 o'clock it would have looked a lot less violent and showy and perhaps would have passed.
    1. When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.
    Interestingly, Article 9, D. states that a defender can't club a passer's arm but doesn't stipulate that it's the throwing arm.

    'A defensive player is prohibited from clubbing the arm of a passer during a pass or just after a pass has been thrown... '

    https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2018-nfl-rulebook/#article-9.-roughing-the-passer
     
  48. The Big Red Kahuna

    The Big Red Kahuna Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No. No it wasn’t.
     
  49. DourDoerr

    DourDoerr Well-Known Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    You're right on this. I should have said - and I say this without snark - it had the appearance of an insane clubbing in the context of a hit on a QB.
     
  50. Old Fart Tree

    Old Fart Tree the maven of meat Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah it was a bad call. But that’s not why the chiefs lost.
     

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