Aaron Hernandez: Had Advanced CTE - NEP Sued

hittery

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 13, 2005
8,444
Windsor, CT
I have heard of criminal convictions being vacated upon death. The only scenario I see that maybe happening is where someone has his conviction overturned on the first level of appeal or habeas, and then they die while waiting for the next level. But even that seems weird.
 

Rusty13

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 3, 2007
5,345
If the convictions on the Lloyd case are vacated, does this remove any res judicata type implications from the criminal case on any future civil cases? Or just the convictions themselves? If there's no res judicata value to the conviction, then one would think this would make any civil suits against his estate harder to prove, and perhaps would save some $ for his estate/daughter etc.

His dealh also cuts back on any claim by estate for seeking reimbursement for his costs of keeping him in jail, assuming the state can lay such a claim in MA.

Haven't dealt with res judicata since the bar exam 20+ years ago, so I'll plead temporal ignorance if I'm off on this. LOL. And italics are fun, so there.
Yes, since the conviction, by law, is vacated, then it cannot be used as prima facie evidence in a subsequent related civil lawsuit, as can regularly be done with underlying convictions. Having said that, I believe the preponderance of evidence standard for any wrongful death lawsuit with respect to the Lloyd case will not be hard to meet. And transcripts of the murder trial can be utilized in some ways at the civil trial depending on how any evidence comes in through witnesses etc.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
Got a link for that?

Hernandez is not under indictment. He was convicted. I have never heard of convictions being vacated upon the death of the prisoner. Only indictments being dismissed.
Quick and dirty research suggests that vacating and dismissing appears to be the usual course in Mass if a case is on direct appeal, but I absolutely leave it to more seasoned Mass. criminal practitioners:


When a defendant dies while his conviction is on direct review, it is our practice to vacate the judgment and remand the case with a direction to dismiss the complaint or indictment, thus abating the entire prosecution. See Commonwealth v. Latour, 397 Mass. 1007, 493 N.E.2d 500 (1986); Commonwealth v. Harris, 379 Mass. 917, 398 N.E.2d 726 (1980); *249 Commonwealth v. Eisen, 368 Mass. 813, 814, 334 N.E.2d 14 (1975). The Federal courts and many States follow this practice. See, e.g., United States v. Asset, 990 F.2d 208, 210 (5th Cir.1993); United States v. Moehlenkamp, 557 F.2d 126, 128 (7th Cir.1977); Hartwell v. State, 423 P.2d 282, 284 (Alaska 1967); State v. Griffin, 121 Ariz. 538, 539, 592 P.2d 372 (1979); State v. Carter, 299 A.2d 891, 894-895 (Me.1973). See Annot., Abatement of State Criminal Case by Accused's Death Pending Appeal of Conviction-Modern Cases, 80 A.L.R.4th 189, 192-195 (1990). Some States hear and decide the appeal. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Walker, 447 Pa. 146, 147-148 n.*, 288 A.2d 741 n.* (1972); State v. McDonald, 144 Wis.2d 531, 536, 424 N.W.2d 411 (1988). Others dismiss or abate the appeal but let the indictment and judgment stand. See, e.g., Whitehouse v. State, 266 Ind. 527, 529, 364 N.E.2d 1015 (1977); Vargas v. State, 659 S.W.2d 422, 423 (Tex.Crim.App.1983). See generally Annot., supra at 196-200.

Com. v. De La Zerda, 416 Mass. 247, 248–49, 619 N.E.2d 617, 618 (1993)
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,187
Well, I am gobsmacked then. The law is absurd.
Perhaps applied to particular sets of facts it may seem absurd. The concept that you should be able to actively participate in your own defense is not, to me, absurd. if you play the thing out from that premise, it would be unfair to have the system do anything else if the case was on direct appeal, I think.

I do acknowledge that in the case of suicide it's easier to get comfortable with letting the conviction stand, so if that your concern I hear you.

As to the other comment about it being a MA thing, it is not. It's true in the Federal system and in other states as well (though I don't believe it is true in all states).
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,330
Southwestern CT
Perhaps applied to particular sets of facts it may seem absurd. The concept that you should be able to actively participate in your own defense is not, to me, absurd. if you play the thing out from that premise, it would be unfair to have the system do anything else if the case was on direct appeal, I think.

I do acknowledge that in the case of suicide it's easier to get comfortable with letting the conviction stand, so if that your concern I hear you.

As to the other comment about it being a MA thing, it is not. It's true in the Federal system and in other states as well (though I don't believe it is true in all states).
In the abstract, the concept is logical and appropriate.

The application of the concept to a suicide by a convicted murderer is absolutely absurd. So we are in agreement.
 

Reggie's Racquet

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2009
7,235
Florida/Montana
And wouldn't it be interesting if AH did this because he knew his conviction would be vacated by committing suicide thus giving his girlfriend and his child a chance at whatever might be left in his estate currently, or through future recovery litigation against the Patriots or media proceeds from his life story.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,428
Win win win for the daughter

Not having Aaron Hernandez in your life as an addition by subtraction plus not having to live life with your father as a murderer plus a chance of keeping the estate
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
Perhaps applied to particular sets of facts it may seem absurd. The concept that you should be able to actively participate in your own defense is not, to me, absurd. if you play the thing out from that premise, it would be unfair to have the system do anything else if the case was on direct appeal, I think.

I do acknowledge that in the case of suicide it's easier to get comfortable with letting the conviction stand, so if that your concern I hear you.

As to the other comment about it being a MA thing, it is not. It's true in the Federal system and in other states as well (though I don't believe it is true in all states).

The de la Zerda case has a rundown of different states' treatment. (as of 1993).
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
I have heard of indictments being dismissed. I have never heard of convictions being vacated because the convicted criminal killed themselves before the appeals process played out.

If true, it would be a logically absurd result and I am not inclined to believe it without definitive citation.

Edit: If true, then a con artist could run a ponzi scheme, steal tens/hundreds millions and then, if found guilty, kill himself when the case is under direct appeal in order to shelter all of his ill-gotten gains for the family. Just not buying that.
Not suicide, but Ken Lay's heart attack might have done just that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/05/AR2006070500523.html

Lay's death all but ensures that defense lawyers will seek to throw out his criminal conviction -- and casts serious doubt on the ability of the government and investors to recover money from the Lay estate, legal experts said. Barry Boss, a Washington lawyer not involved in the Enron case, said Lay's death complicates prosecutors' request Friday for a $43.5 million money judgment against him because it is not clear whether the government can seek restitution against someone who has died. "Under the prevailing case law . . . I don't see any way they can proceed against Lay for restitution in the criminal case, or anything else for that matter," said Boss of Cozen O'Connor.
 

GammonsSpecialPerson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2016
136
TSH has had legal experts on air talking about whether Hernandez's suicide enables his daughter to access his NFL pension.

WEEI has had a guy named Rabbit claiming Hernandez killed himself because GAY PANIC. (Bonus: "Tight End" and "I hear he was a WIDE RECEIVER" banter by both K&C and the Ordway PuPu Platter.)
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,330
Southwestern CT
Not suicide, but Ken Lay's heart attack might have done just that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/05/AR2006070500523.html
I actually remember that about Lay.

It's the suicide aspect of it that seems grotesque. An awful loophole.

What about the gun conviction? Was that in appeals already, too? Would that not be in violation of NFL's policies?
That could become an interesting question if the appeal had not yet been filed. (I assume it had.)
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,428
And who needs to commit suicide for the Pats to get a first and fourth pick back?
Irsay?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
What about the gun conviction? Was that in appeals already, too? Would that not be in violation of NFL's policies?
It's not if it's "in the appeals process," so much as it's "if the conviction isn't final," which it isn't until the appeal is decided by the state's highest court, or the time for appealing has expired.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,271
AZ
That's kind of chilling because I can't imagine he came up with that plan himself. Basically, if he knew, it'd mean his lawyer advised him to kill himself.
I had the very same thought. Although maybe it was a courthouse lawyer and not his actual lawyer.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
I actually remember that about Lay.
It's the suicide aspect of it that seems grotesque. An awful loophole.
Absolutely. And I suppose if there's even a shred of evidence that the family -- or any estate beneficiaries -- was in any way complicit (using that term *very* loosely), there might be some sort of equitable remedy to keep them away from the $$$.

Given all the unfathomables surrounding Hernandez, it would not surprise me at all if he was "advised" that his death would keep his money in the family.

EDIT: DDB beat me to the "advisor" angle.
 

Doug Beerabelli

Killer Threads
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
That's kind of chilling because I can't imagine he came up with that plan himself. Basically, if he knew, it'd mean his lawyer advised him to kill himself.
I was thinking about this, too (assuming suicide is a crime). But I think the lawyer can provide a client with an interpretation of the law that in itself does not rise to the level of advising a client to commit the crime. Lawyer certainly has to be careful, and there's probably levels of CYA correspondence. If a lawyer suspects a client is going to commit suicide (again, assuming suicide is a crime), not sure if lawyer can (or is ethically obligated) to break duty of confidentiality to take measures to stop it or report it to authorities. Not on same basis as a pyschotherapist, of course.
 

phenweigh

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 8, 2005
1,379
Brewster, MA
Life insurance policies don't pay for suicide, right? Though that is a contract and thus is different. If this goes to trial, could the Patriots/NFL make an argument that death by suicide shouldn't apply?
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
So the Patriots cut an innocent man? Heartless.
Well in our thread the day he was arrested, one of us did post *massive overreaction* after the Pats cut him.

Why he killed himself when he did is speculative based on what we know now. It could have been the pension. It could have been the dawning realization that Baez or no, the conviction was likely to stick.

Life lesson if you are ever in this awful spot: don't call an electrician to do a plumber's work, and vice versa.

It was obvious from the get that he should have turned to someone like Baez once it hit the fan. White shoe lawyers have no business trying murder cases.

Brady learned that too, though obviously with far lesser consequences.

AH would have been better off with Rovine in trial 1.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
Prison spokesman says Hernandez did not leave a note in his cell and that they (obviously) didn't think he was suicidal.
 

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Prison spokesman says Hernandez did not leave a note in his cell and that they (obviously) didn't think he was suicidal.
Leaving a note would indicate he had a conscious. No evidence of that up to now, so I didn't expect him to leave this world proving he did. This is consistent with him being a sociopath or psychopath, whichever.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
I'm not so much worried about whether or not the lawyer can get himself into trouble. I just find the idea disturbing.
It could be as simple as saying to his lawyer, "I'm worried I'll get killed in here; what happens if I die," and the lawyer gives him a straight answer.
 

bosoxsue

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 16, 2001
1,774
Leaving a note would indicate he had a conscious. No evidence of that up to now, so I didn't expect him to leave this world proving he did. This is consistent with him being a sociopath or psychopath, whichever.
Oddly enough, though, he did like to write. He had that beautiful penmanship that is on display in a different thread here, I believe. Sociopath/psychopath although he may have been, it surprises me that there was no note.
 

rslm

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
326
Cincinnati, OH
Life insurance policies don't pay for suicide, right? Though that is a contract and thus is different. If this goes to trial, could the Patriots/NFL make an argument that death by suicide shouldn't apply?
Oftentimes there's a 2 year exclusion period and then suicide is covered. Depends on the policy, but suicide can be covered.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,753
Pittsburgh, PA
Life insurance policies don't pay for suicide, right? Though that is a contract and thus is different. If this goes to trial, could the Patriots/NFL make an argument that death by suicide shouldn't apply?
Life insurance policies generally are written so that there is an initial period - most commonly two years - in which there are circumstances in which the carrier can "contest" whether there was truly a fair bargain between the customer and the company. Taking out life insurance while you were already planning to commit suicide would be a violation of the terms of the agreement and it could be voided. However, if you'd just been going along paying your premiums and then some real shit happened and you killed yourself, the insurer would generally pay up. Because it's impossible to know the state of mind of a dead person at the time of the policy issuance, absent some blatant paper trail, the contract provides for this "contest period".

Generally speaking, if you have been paying your premiums past the duration of the contest period, the life insurer will pay out, barring some clear evidence of fraudulent conduct by the deceased with respect to their policy (e.g., you'd been diagnosed with terminal cancer a week before taking out the policy).

As to these circumstances, I suspect Bob Kraft may care more about getting the cap space relief for his football team, than he does about whether a portion of a bonus that was already paid out would be left towards the care of an innocent child or whether he can reclaim it.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Oddly enough, though, he did like to write. He had that beautiful penmanship that is on display in a different thread here, I believe. Sociopath/psychopath although he may have been, it surprises me that there was no note.
Wasn't it proven later on it wasn't actually his writing?
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
12,958
The Paris of the 80s
I was thinking about this, too (assuming suicide is a crime). But I think the lawyer can provide a client with an interpretation of the law that in itself does not rise to the level of advising a client to commit the crime. Lawyer certainly has to be careful, and there's probably levels of CYA correspondence. If a lawyer suspects a client is going to commit suicide (again, assuming suicide is a crime), not sure if lawyer can (or is ethically obligated) to break duty of confidentiality to take measures to stop it or report it to authorities. Not on same basis as a pyschotherapist, of course.
MA is a permissive disclosure state. At least to prevent likely injury to another. I forget if "another" means outside the attorney-client relationship. Regardless, it's not a mandatory disclosure state for threats/harm. There are some mandatory disclosure rules surrounding perjury by clients and other matters of truth.

Counseling a crime is another matter. Can't do that.
 
Last edited:

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
12,958
The Paris of the 80s
I can't even come up with an analogy with how bad law and order sucks at even remotely approximating actual criminal prosecutions. It makes me want to throw beer bottles at the TV. There are probably military and medical show which miss the mark as badly, but L+O is especially egregious.
It's make believe fantasy land. Night Court was closer. Much closer. Kind of like how Scrubs is more realistic than ER or House.
 

theapportioner

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 9, 2006
5,069
I think it could easily be conceivable that another informed inmate told Hernandez about this path, rather than a lawyer.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
I think it could easily be conceivable that another informed inmate told Hernandez about this path, rather than a lawyer.
Or even a throwaway line by a lawyer, but not really intended as a suggestion.

"How do I get my family this money?"
"Aaron, I'm sorry, there's really no path, short of you dying, until we win this appeal, so we need to wait."
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,932
I would assume this would not benefit his daughter, but instead the Lloyd family. They would take steps to secure his bonus in the Probate Court, and the daughter would only get an inheretance after his creditors are paid.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,271
Win win win for the daughter

Not having Aaron Hernandez in your life as an addition by subtraction plus not having to live life with your father as a murderer plus a chance of keeping the estate
More like a Win Win win for the Lloyd family and the two families from the double murder as they're all going to go after it (if he gets it) in a civil trial.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
This man was a high IQ sociopath. I do believe it was suicide, and it was calculated to allow him to dictate the terms of his remaining financial resources. As flawed as the logic may end up being, he's now been acquitted of these two murders. According to the Boston Globe article - under Mass Law his conviction status now goes back to as if he were never convicted of the Odin Lloyd because he had an appeal in place that he had not been heard on. Further, under this law some evidence presented at his Lloyd trial cannot be used in future civil trials i.e. wrongful death suit. I believe in his mind his suicide would have the potential effect of protecting his remaining money for his daughter (and perhaps fiance). I think he knew that he was never going to get off on the Lloyd killing so this was the final way he could say screw you and make sure his money got used the way he wanted it to.

Just my two cents...

What a freakin tragedy... all the way around.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,271
Any word if Mark Wahlberg has started to produce a movie on the life of Aaron Hernandez where he stars as a composite cop who broke the Odin Lloyd case, the double murder, the Florida assaults and then finds Hernandez in his cell?