A Boston Bid for Olympic Games 2024

Batman Likes The Sox

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Maybe we can keep this thread going for a decade?
 
http://www.boston-2024.org
http://www.eveningsun.com/sports/ci_25025865/u-s-intends-make-2024-olympic-bid-seven
 
Seems like there's a decent chance that if the U.S. puts in a bid for 2024, it could be Boston.
 
Infrastructure issues abound and the cost would be enormous.  There are already a ton of negative opinion pieces about the possibility.  So commence your anger, Massachusetts taxpayers, though I guess Georgia made out okay on that deal, and the inevitable MBTA overhaul would be useful.  
 
I am in favor overall.  I'd love to be alive for an Olympic Games in my backyard.
 

alydar

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For my two cents, to the extent that any Olympics allows a region to make major infrastructure upgrades -- to its mass transit in particular -- great.  To the extent that you build stadiums, pools, etc. that are essentially never used again, then it is pointless.  History does not suggest the former happens all that often.  
 

Cellar-Door

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Where would Boston build a luge track and where would you have the downhill skiing? Wachusett would suck. Are the Whites too far?
2024 are Summer games.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Truth is, Boston is much better suited to a Winter Games anyway. For one, the Winter Games are FAR less invasive. They're just smaller, and more manageable.
 
Any combination of Blue Hills, Nashoba Valley and/or Wachusett would work for bobsled/luge/skeleton as well as aerials and halfpipe...and function just fine in post-Games legacy mode, just as comparables in Calgary and Salt Lake City, since they are close to major metropolitan areas. Ski Jumping could fit either into one of those venues, or revive the jumps that were in Fitchburg many years ago.
 
Alpine events other than The Downhill fit nicely into any of the New Hampshire resorts (but you pick just one) which aren't any more difficult to get to from Boston than Whistler is from Vancouver. The Downhill goes to Killington, which isn't really that much further. Added plus is that New England resorts are infamous for nasty, icy conditions - which is exactly how they prepare the courses for ski racing. The thing to understand is that the cozy days of a single village Olympics are over. Most Winter Games have clusters, like Vancouver had the Lower Mainland and Whistler, and people don't really move back and forth between them.
 
For your ice hockey, there are more than enough existing college arenas in the Greater Boston area for all the games, with the medal rounds at TD Garden, especially considering that Vancouver set the precedent that NHL size ice is acceptable. The short track/figure skating venue does need to be international sized rink in an arena of decent capacity - but that's just turns into a really nice rink for whichever college it winds up at, whether an upgrade to an existing rink or a new one.
 
A state of the art curling club would thrive in the Greater Boston area. It's a popular, hip enough participant sport that that's a legacy venue that will stand on its own. For long track speed skating, you have a few options; You can go the "Richmond Route" as they did in 2010 and build a stunning architectural statement, and convert to relevant community use after, OR you can do a wisely designed, somewhat more modest building which will add an oval and two ice sheets to what is a fairly under-served hockey/skating community in the Greater Boston area. The two hockey/figure/short track rinks fill a chronic shortage of ice in the area, and yes, an oval would be useful, too. If it gets used in the quasi-ghetto community of Kearns, Utah, it'll get used in Boston.
 
Ceremonies would be at Gillette, and nightly medal ceremony-concert events at Fenway Park.
 
Depending on one's agenda, arguments can be made in many directions about the financial aspects of such a plan. You'll spend a lot of money, but you'll get some nice quality of life upgrades. The USOC gets world class facilities closer to bigger talent pools, and resources if that's important to you. All of a sudden attending college while training for luge becomes much more doable. A track athlete at BC is a lot more likely to go try pushing a bobsled at Blue Hills 30 minutes away than drive 6 hours to lake Placid. Boston/New England is attractive to the IOC because it is a major east coast US city, and the only one capable of crafting a bid. Denver's nice, but it's not much different than Salt Lake City, plus the 1976 thing still stings.
 
And, all of you who don't want the hassle and disruption - trust me, summer is 100 X as disruptive than winter. As for the "I live in Western Mass", people don't worry, bones will be thrown your way, just as they were all over British Columbia in the lead up to 2010. You'll get yours.
 

Leather

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It would burn NYC's ass so hard if Boston got an Olympics.
 

mabrowndog

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Fred not Lynn said:
Truth is, Boston is much better suited to a Winter Games anyway. For one, the Winter Games are FAR less invasive. They're just smaller, and more manageable.
 
I could get behind this. If tiny hamlets like Grenoble, Squaw Valley, Lake Placid, Lillehammer, Albertville and Nagano can pull it off, there's no reason Boston couldn't, provided organizers and politicians don't get drawn into games of one-upmanship in an effort to out-do the facade and grandeur of Sochi.
 
The Summer games would be disastrous IMO for many reasons, not the least of which would be the preposterous amount of new infrastructure and transportation required. The entire T system would need an overhaul. Unless you bulldoze a 40- or 50-acre parcel in Boston and evict all its tenants, there's no place to build an Olympic Village. Placing athletes in various existing college dorms would be far too fragmenting, taxing the security mission while making it difficult for a centralized food and service area to function.
 
Assuming no new stadium gets built, preparing Gillette Stadium for proper access would be a nightmare. Start with adding about 14,000 seats plus a crapload of new luxury suites for dignitaries & sponsors, and space for thousands of credentialed media types. You'd need a full limited-access highway to replace Route 1, a mass transit hub to replace the single-lane commuter rail track and simple platform, and numerous buildings to accommodate media and security operations.
 
There's also a huge shortage of hotel space for the Summer games, which require 45,000 rooms minimum. Even if they included every single hotel room and college dorm within the I-495 perimeter, regardless of quality, and prohibited anyone else from staying in the area for any other purpose for two weeks (oops... sorry, families of dying hospital patients!), they'd still come up 10,000 rooms short. Even forecasting a decade out, it's clear there isn't going to be enough demand for dorms and year-round hotel space to justify the new construction needed to make up the difference. The idea of including hotels in Providence, Portland and even Hartford is a joke.
 
Then again, not nearly as big a joke as Tulsa bidding for the Summer 2024 games.
 
Seriously. I mean, holy pipe dream, Batman.
 

Homar

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mabrowndog said:
 
I could get behind this. If tiny hamlets like Grenoble, Squaw Valley, Lake Placid, Lillehammer, Albertville and Nagano can pull it off, there's no reason Boston couldn't, provided organizers and politicians don't get drawn into games of one-upmanship in an effort to out-do the facade and grandeur of Sochi.
 
The Summer games would be disastrous IMO for many reasons, not the least of which would be the preposterous amount of new infrastructure and transportation required. The entire T system would need an overhaul. Unless you bulldoze a 40- or 50-acre parcel in Boston and evict all its tenants, there's no place to build an Olympic Village. Placing athletes in various existing college dorms would be far too fragmenting, taxing the security mission while making it difficult for a centralized food and service area to function.
 
Assuming no new stadium gets built, preparing Gillette Stadium for proper access would be a nightmare. Start with adding about 14,000 seats plus a crapload of new luxury suites for dignitaries & sponsors, and space for thousands of credentialed media types. You'd need a full limited-access highway to replace Route 1, a mass transit hub to replace the single-lane commuter rail track and simple platform, and numerous buildings to accommodate media and security operations.
 
There's also a huge shortage of hotel space for the Summer games, which require 45,000 rooms minimum. Even if they included every single hotel room and college dorm within the I-495 perimeter, regardless of quality, and prohibited anyone else from staying in the area for any other purpose for two weeks (oops... sorry, families of dying hospital patients!), they'd still come up 10,000 rooms short. Even forecasting a decade out, it's clear there isn't going to be enough demand for dorms and year-round hotel space to justify the new construction needed to make up the difference. The idea of including hotels in Providence, Portland and even Hartford is a joke.
 
Then again, not nearly as big a joke as Tulsa bidding for the Summer 2024 games.
 
Seriously. I mean, holy pipe dream, Batman.
Did you not notice that the Tulsa bid includes Fayetteville?  If that doesn't make this viable, what would?  I mean, eastern Oklahoma and western Arkansas united?  
 

Batman Likes The Sox

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There are many reasons to consider why this won't work.  Most of these are pretty obvious, and there are already a bunch of op-ed pieces describing why a Boston Olympic Games is a bad idea.
 
More interesting to discuss, however, is that it seems pretty possible that USOC will put forward a Boston bid for 2024.
 
Of course, they might submit no bid at all, but if they do, the short list from the article above seems to be:
Boston
Dallas
Los Angeles
Philadelphia
San Diego
San Francisco
Washington, D.C.
 
These are all reasonably possible Olympic Games U.S. cities, but at least at the moment, there are two notable items that make it seem possible:
-Mitt Romney is on board and no doubt has USOC influence
-Deval Patrick signed the bill to have a commission look into the possibility with a report due in a couple months
 
I guess the other angle I'm thinking about is that if USOC wants to put forward a bid, who else would they pick?  Dallas seems like the wrong climate for a Summer Games.  Los Angeles seems unlikely to win a third games in the last hundred years or so.  I can't be sure, but Philadelphia, D.C., and San Francisco would have to share some of the same logistics issues as Boston, I would imagine. San Diego is interesting, but isn't as much of an internationally known city as Boston, for whatever that's worth.  Boston seems like a pretty reasonable choice amongst that list.
 
Dec 10, 2012
6,943
Fred not Lynn said:
Truth is, Boston is much better suited to a Winter Games anyway. For one, the Winter Games are FAR less invasive. They're just smaller, and more manageable.
 
Any combination of Blue Hills, Nashoba Valley and/or Wachusett would work for bobsled/luge/skeleton as well as aerials and halfpipe...and function just fine in post-Games legacy mode, just as comparables in Calgary and Salt Lake City, since they are close to major metropolitan areas. Ski Jumping could fit either into one of those venues, or revive the jumps that were in Fitchburg many years ago.
 
Alpine events other than The Downhill fit nicely into any of the New Hampshire resorts (but you pick just one) which aren't any more difficult to get to from Boston than Whistler is from Vancouver. The Downhill goes to Killington, which isn't really that much further. Added plus is that New England resorts are infamous for nasty, icy conditions - which is exactly how they prepare the courses for ski racing. The thing to understand is that the cozy days of a single village Olympics are over. Most Winter Games have clusters, like Vancouver had the Lower Mainland and Whistler, and people don't really move back and forth between them.
 
For your ice hockey, there are more than enough existing college arenas in the Greater Boston area for all the games, with the medal rounds at TD Garden, especially considering that Vancouver set the precedent that NHL size ice is acceptable. The short track/figure skating venue does need to be international sized rink in an arena of decent capacity - but that's just turns into a really nice rink for whichever college it winds up at, whether an upgrade to an existing rink or a new one.
 
A state of the art curling club would thrive in the Greater Boston area. It's a popular, hip enough participant sport that that's a legacy venue that will stand on its own. For long track speed skating, you have a few options; You can go the "Richmond Route" as they did in 2010 and build a stunning architectural statement, and convert to relevant community use after, OR you can do a wisely designed, somewhat more modest building which will add an oval and two ice sheets to what is a fairly under-served hockey/skating community in the Greater Boston area. The two hockey/figure/short track rinks fill a chronic shortage of ice in the area, and yes, an oval would be useful, too. If it gets used in the quasi-ghetto community of Kearns, Utah, it'll get used in Boston.
 
Ceremonies would be at Gillette, and nightly medal ceremony-concert events at Fenway Park.
 
Depending on one's agenda, arguments can be made in many directions about the financial aspects of such a plan. You'll spend a lot of money, but you'll get some nice quality of life upgrades. The USOC gets world class facilities closer to bigger talent pools, and resources if that's important to you. All of a sudden attending college while training for luge becomes much more doable. A track athlete at BC is a lot more likely to go try pushing a bobsled at Blue Hills 30 minutes away than drive 6 hours to lake Placid. Boston/New England is attractive to the IOC because it is a major east coast US city, and the only one capable of crafting a bid. Denver's nice, but it's not much different than Salt Lake City, plus the 1976 thing still stings.
 
And, all of you who don't want the hassle and disruption - trust me, summer is 100 X as disruptive than winter. As for the "I live in Western Mass", people don't worry, bones will be thrown your way, just as they were all over British Columbia in the lead up to 2010. You'll get yours.
Thank you FnL. Very informative and enlightening.  Great post.
 

TSC

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For what it's worth - the Iorio Arena in Walpole has an Olympic sized hockey rink. I'm not sure what requirements are for seating, but it's there.
 

Leather

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Batman Likes The Sox said:
There are many reasons to consider why this won't work.  Most of these are pretty obvious, and there are already a bunch of op-ed pieces describing why a Boston Olympic Games is a bad idea.
 
More interesting to discuss, however, is that it seems pretty possible that USOC will put forward a Boston bid for 2024.
 
Of course, they might submit no bid at all, but if they do, the short list from the article above seems to be:
Boston
Dallas
Los Angeles
Philadelphia
San Diego
San Francisco
Washington, D.C.
 
These are all reasonably possible Olympic Games U.S. cities, but at least at the moment, there are two notable items that make it seem possible:
-Mitt Romney is on board and no doubt has USOC influence
-Deval Patrick signed the bill to have a commission look into the possibility with a report due in a couple months
 
I guess the other angle I'm thinking about is that if USOC wants to put forward a bid, who else would they pick?  Dallas seems like the wrong climate for a Summer Games.  Los Angeles seems unlikely to win a third games in the last hundred years or so.  I can't be sure, but Philadelphia, D.C., and San Francisco would have to share some of the same logistics issues as Boston, I would imagine. San Diego is interesting, but isn't as much of an internationally known city as Boston, for whatever that's worth.  Boston seems like a pretty reasonable choice amongst that list.
 
Dallas' climate isn't an issue. They would simply push the games to September, like they did for Sydney. 
 
Philadelphia is dead broke; they aren't getting a serious look for the Olympics (besides, the infrastructure in Philly is about 5x as bad as Boston's). Honestly, of all of those cities, Philly is the least likely.
 
San Diego is simply too small and doesn't have the infrastructure for the Games.   D.C. is a possibility, I suppose.
 
Frankly, I think Dallas, San Fran and Boston have the only viable shots for a Summer games.  I would add Chicago (if they ever bid again) as the only real strong contender for the next 20 years. 
 

Mr. Wednesday

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Fred not Lynn said:
For your ice hockey, there are more than enough existing college arenas in the Greater Boston area for all the games, with the medal rounds at TD Garden, especially considering that Vancouver set the precedent that NHL size ice is acceptable.
This might actually be a little tricky, given that the arena sizes in the Boston schools are all over the place. BC is 200x87, BU and NU are 200x90. If they want consistent surface size, they'd have to go further afield, to Lowell, Providence, and Worcester. That would have the benefit of opening the university arenas to other events.
 

Fred not Lynn

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drleather2001 said:
I mean, anything is possible.
 
I just learned that Minneapolis was a hair's breadth away from being the U.S. Nomination for the 1996 Games.
65-42 Isn't exactly a hair's breadth. But still, just being runner up is pretty impressive.

Minneapolis wouldn't have gotten the Games though. Coca Cola kind of helped on the IOC stage...
 

TallerThanPedroia

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alydar said:
For my two cents, to the extent that any Olympics allows a region to make major infrastructure upgrades -- to its mass transit in particular -- great.  To the extent that you build stadiums, pools, etc. that are essentially never used again, then it is pointless.  History does not suggest the former happens all that often.  
 
The trick would be, launch the bid, build the former, and then lose the bid before building the latter.
 

Orel Miraculous

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mabrowndog said:
 
I could get behind this. If tiny hamlets like Grenoble, Squaw Valley, Lake Placid, Lillehammer, Albertville and Nagano can pull it off, there's no reason Boston couldn't, provided organizers and politicians don't get drawn into games of one-upmanship in an effort to out-do the facade and grandeur of Sochi.
 
The Summer games would be disastrous IMO for many reasons, not the least of which would be the preposterous amount of new infrastructure and transportation required. The entire T system would need an overhaul. Unless you bulldoze a 40- or 50-acre parcel in Boston and evict all its tenants, there's no place to build an Olympic Village. Placing athletes in various existing college dorms would be far too fragmenting, taxing the security mission while making it difficult for a centralized food and service area to function.
 
Assuming no new stadium gets built, preparing Gillette Stadium for proper access would be a nightmare. Start with adding about 14,000 seats plus a crapload of new luxury suites for dignitaries & sponsors, and space for thousands of credentialed media types. You'd need a full limited-access highway to replace Route 1, a mass transit hub to replace the single-lane commuter rail track and simple platform, and numerous buildings to accommodate media and security operations.
 
There's also a huge shortage of hotel space for the Summer games, which require 45,000 rooms minimum. Even if they included every single hotel room and college dorm within the I-495 perimeter, regardless of quality, and prohibited anyone else from staying in the area for any other purpose for two weeks (oops... sorry, families of dying hospital patients!), they'd still come up 10,000 rooms short. Even forecasting a decade out, it's clear there isn't going to be enough demand for dorms and year-round hotel space to justify the new construction needed to make up the difference. The idea of including hotels in Providence, Portland and even Hartford is a joke.
 
Then again, not nearly as big a joke as Tulsa bidding for the Summer 2024 games.
 
Seriously. I mean, holy pipe dream, Batman.
 
1. The T needs a massive upgrade anyway. As was said above, by far the best thing about hosting an Olympics is the government finally spends what it should've been spending on infrastructure all along.
 
2. There is plenty of open space in Boston that could be used for the Olympic Village, very little would need to be bulldozed.  Just off the top of my head you've got the BSX rail yard in Allston, the MTA rail yards in South Boston, the acres of empty contiguous lots surrounding the Reserve Channel and the Convention Center, the entire dead zone between Cambridge and Charlestown, and the Newmarket area.  Any of those locations could serve as the village and the larger ones (Reserve Channel, Newmarket, and Cambridge/Charlestown) could also squeeze in a venue or two.
 
3. Gillette wouldn't be used--too far away--but fortunately there's another team in New England that's been trying to build a stadium in Boston for years.  The Revs.  The Olympic Stadium can easily be designed to be downgraded after the games, it worked perfectly well for Atlanta.
 
4. Boston would need to add about 15,000 hotel rooms. That's nothing to sneeze at, but its not insurmountable either. The point about the city being able to sustain the demand for the rooms after the games is certainly valid, but if the city is as committed to building 30,000 new housing units by 2020 as it says it is (and it should be), then you build those hotels, convert them to residential after the games and voila, the Olympics have helped you achieve a very important civic objective for the city and the region as a whole.
 

axx

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Honestly, if the US never holds another Olympics, I would be happy. Let other countries blow billions so we can watch the games on TV.
 

Infield Infidel

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mabrowndog said:
Assuming no new stadium gets built, preparing Gillette Stadium for proper access would be a nightmare. Start with adding about 14,000 seats plus a crapload of new luxury suites for dignitaries & sponsors, and space for thousands of credentialed media types. You'd need a full limited-access highway to replace Route 1, a mass transit hub to replace the single-lane commuter rail track and simple platform, and numerous buildings to accommodate media and security operations.
 
There's also a huge shortage of hotel space for the Summer games, which require 45,000 rooms minimum. Even if they included every single hotel room and college dorm within the I-495 perimeter, regardless of quality, and prohibited anyone else from staying in the area for any other purpose for two weeks (oops... sorry, families of dying hospital patients!), they'd still come up 10,000 rooms short. Even forecasting a decade out, it's clear there isn't going to be enough demand for dorms and year-round hotel space to justify the new construction needed to make up the difference. The idea of including hotels in Providence, Portland and even Hartford is a joke.
 
Then again, not nearly as big a joke as Tulsa bidding for the Summer 2024 games.
 
Seriously. I mean, holy pipe dream, Batman.
 
Well, since Providence is closer to Gillette than Boston is, including Providence hotels makes sense. Probably not Hartford or Portland though.
 
The issue is, could Gillette be an Olympic stadium? On first glance, for the opening ceremonies, if you didn't know it was a football stadium, its set up is perfect, with the opening on the northeast side for running in the the torch, and it already has a lighthouse thingy. 
 
On the other hand, converting it for track and field has a lot hoops to jump. They'd have to fit this

 
Into this
 

 

 
 
Track width might not be an issue, but length is a problem. They'd have to pull out pretty much 10,000-15,000 seats around the perimeter of the field to fit a track. They could get creative and install retractable seating, like at Stade de France in Paris, but even then, you have to replace those seats for the games. so now a 70,000 seat stadium is is 55,000 seats, when 75,000 is a minimum. It would take a lot of work, and oh yeah you only have 6 months a year to work on it because of football. And you only have a maximum of 6 weeks after the football season to prep the stadium, and that's if the Pats don't host playoff games.   (winter games on the brain)
 
New stadium? Well this ain't Atlanta, where they replace stadiums ever 15-20 years so the Pats won't need one. Atlanta was smart converting the Olympic stadium for baseball: Would the Sox move? Fenway is old, and they could support 50,000 fans probably. So that's a maybe. Revs only need a 20-25K stadium, so designing something to convert from 75-85K to 25K for soccer use seems impractical. That's 60K temporary seats, bigger than most stadiums. Atlanta only went from 85K to 55K
 
Another option is to have the Opening ceremonies and a few other events like soccer at Gillette, and a more modest track and field venue in Boston, one that could be converted to soccer for the Revs. Say 40-45K with 15-20K temporary seats. I don't think there's ever been an olympics where track and field wasn't at the Olympic Stadium, Track, along with swimming and gymnastics, are THE glamour events of the games. I don't think the IOC would go for it, but if Boston did get the games that'd be the smartest route for the area. 
 

Orel Miraculous

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I thought I'd mess around with some ideas for how Boston could pull this off.  Yes a number of new venues would need to be built, but not as many as you think.  London used a ton of existing facilities and with all of the increasing attention on wasteful Olympic construction, the IOC may actually welcome an opportunity to show that the games can be hosted in a fiscally responsible manner.  
 
This plan doesn't have a central "Olympic Park" but I actually think that can be seen as a good thing.  The venues are somewhat spread out but are all very accessible from the CBD. No one area of the city will get completely tied up and lots of different neighborhoods get to enjoy the games.
 

 
Olympic Village:  I've built it in the dead zone of rail yards and MBTA service facilities in between 93, West 4th Street, and the South Boston bypass road.  This is a perfect location. It's centrally located, close to South Station and the airport, and within 20-30 minute walks from downtown, the waterfront, and Back Bay.  This is also a really important development area for the city of Boston. Getting a mixed use neighborhood here would finally knit the South End and South Boston together and make the Seaport/Waterfront area more accessible.
 
Olympic Stadium:  there's no getting around this, a new stadium would have to be built. Gillette is both too far away and too small to host track and field events.  I've put the stadium in the inner belt area north of Lechmere, which has often been mentioned as a potential landing spot for the Revs. It would be cut down and converted to a 20-30,000 seat soccer stadium after the games.  Assembly Square is also a good option for this.
 
Aquatics Center:  Need a new venue here too. I've stuck it on the CSX rail yards near Nickerson Field. After the games BU get's the best the aquatics venue in the NCAA.
 
Velodrome: Has to be built obviously, but thankfully it's not a massive or prohibitively expensive venue. Put it in the CSX rail yards and let BU convert it to an indoor track facility after the games.
 
Beach Volleyball:  this is my favorite one. Inspired by the awesome horse guards venue at London, I've put the court inside the fort at Castle Island. It's right on the water and the visuals would be phenomenal. This would be the hottest venue at the games.
 

 
Boston Convention Center:  fencing, weightlifting, judo, taekwondo, table tennis, badminton--basically all of the small indoor sports can go here.
 
Gymnastics:  TD Garden
 
Basketball:  Conte Forum and TD Garden
 
Boxing:  Agannis Arena
 
Wrestling:  world trade center on the waterfront
 
Handball:  Matthews Arena
 
Rugby Sevens: Alumni Field
 
Baseball:  very likely that baseball and softball would be back in the games if Japan and the US hosted back to back. This is played at Fenway, obviously.
 
Softball: new facility built at Joe Moakley Park on the water in South Boston.
 
Archery:  Clemente Field in the Fens
 
Field Hockey:  refurbished White Stadium at Franklin Park
 
Equestrian:  Franklin Park
 
Tennis:  Longwood Cricket Club.  A new 5-7,000 seat center court would need to be built here, but Boston should have one of these anyway to host future ATP and WTA events.
 
Golf:  the Country Club
 
Soccer:  as per tradition, the early rounds would be hosted around the country with the semis and finals at Gillette. 
 
City Hall Plaza:  medal ceremonies and concerts at night.
 
Press Center:  Hynes Convention Center
 

BigMike

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You are trying to squeeze to much into  Boston.
 
I think you would see events more spread out around Eastern Mass.  I think if you were going to do this, then you almost have to use DCU center in Worcester, and Tsongas arena up in Lowell.  
One problem is most of the college venues are 2-5K fewer seats than you want/need for Olympic venues, especially when you are losing upwards of 2K seats for media.    You simply can't hold an Olympic men's basketball game at Conte. It's just not big enough even for qualifying games 
 
The load the Olympics would put on the city would be like having the 4th of July and the Marathon the same day, every day for 17 straight days.
 
That said,  the nightly concert/medal ceremony should be on the Esplanade,  not city hall plaza.  Much cooler  venue
 

Fred not Lynn

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Why can't you just let the velodrome stay a velodrome? It's not a totally useless facility post Games, and New England doesn't have one...but does have world class indoor track places already.
 

BigMike

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By the way the Fort is an interesting idea,  but could you really put a 12 thousand seat stadium there? 
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Orel Miraculous said:
I thought I'd mess around with some ideas for how Boston could pull this off.  Yes a number of new venues would need to be built, but not as many as you think.  London used a ton of existing facilities and with all of the increasing attention on wasteful Olympic construction, the IOC may actually welcome an opportunity to show that the games can be hosted in a fiscally responsible manner.  
 
This plan doesn't have a central "Olympic Park" but I actually think that can be seen as a good thing.  The venues are somewhat spread out but are all very accessible from the CBD. No one area of the city will get completely tied up and lots of different neighborhoods get to enjoy the games.
 

 
Olympic Village:  I've built it in the dead zone of rail yards and MBTA service facilities in between 93, West 4th Street, and the South Boston bypass road.  This is a perfect location. It's centrally located, close to South Station and the airport, and within 20-30 minute walks from downtown, the waterfront, and Back Bay.  This is also a really important development area for the city of Boston. Getting a mixed use neighborhood here would finally knit the South End and South Boston together and make the Seaport/Waterfront area more accessible.
 
Olympic Stadium:  there's no getting around this, a new stadium would have to be built. Gillette is both too far away and too small to host track and field events.  I've put the stadium in the inner belt area north of Lechmere, which has often been mentioned as a potential landing spot for the Revs. It would be cut down and converted to a 20-30,000 seat soccer stadium after the games.  Assembly Square is also a good option for this.
 
Aquatics Center:  Need a new venue here too. I've stuck it on the CSX rail yards near Nickerson Field. After the games BU get's the best the aquatics venue in the NCAA.
 
Velodrome: Has to be built obviously, but thankfully it's not a massive or prohibitively expensive venue. Put it in the CSX rail yards and let BU convert it to an indoor track facility after the games.
 
Beach Volleyball:  this is my favorite one. Inspired by the awesome horse guards venue at London, I've put the court inside the fort at Castle Island. It's right on the water and the visuals would be phenomenal. This would be the hottest venue at the games.
 

 
Boston Convention Center:  fencing, weightlifting, judo, taekwondo, table tennis, badminton--basically all of the small indoor sports can go here.
 
Gymnastics:  TD Garden
 
Basketball:  Conte Forum and TD Garden
 
Boxing:  Agannis Arena
 
Wrestling:  world trade center on the waterfront
 
Handball:  Matthews Arena
 
Rugby Sevens: Alumni Field
 
Baseball:  very likely that baseball and softball would be back in the games if Japan and the US hosted back to back. This is played at Fenway, obviously.
 
Softball: new facility built at Joe Moakley Park on the water in South Boston.
 
Archery:  Clemente Field in the Fens
 
Field Hockey:  refurbished White Stadium at Franklin Park
 
Equestrian:  Franklin Park
 
Tennis:  Longwood Cricket Club.  A new 5-7,000 seat center court would need to be built here, but Boston should have one of these anyway to host future ATP and WTA events.
 
Golf:  the Country Club
 
Soccer:  as per tradition, the early rounds would be hosted around the country with the semis and finals at Gillette. 
 
City Hall Plaza:  medal ceremonies and concerts at night.
 
Press Center:  Hynes Convention Center
I love your thought process. I would make 2-3 changes. First and the toughest part of this, of course, is the Olympic Village. The 20-30 minute walk would take through BMC, which (I stand corrected) is not Roxbury, but not the best part of the South End.
 
http://www.universalhub.com/crime/20131101/two-shot-south-end
 
 
Secondly, indoor volleyball for Conte (with a practice gym already there, too) . Basketball for DCU (as mentioned)
 
I love the  potential for beach volleyball at CI, but if that doesn't work, Revere would be awesome too.
 
Fenway for baseball and softball would be just glorious and would be a great selling point to the media and IOC IMHO. And you know, with all the non-baseball stuff at Fenway already, ownership would love it.
 

BigMike

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Olympic rowing on the Charles would be amazing
 
That would be cool, but by the same token it would have been cool if it were on the Thames in London.   On the other hand how do you make money off of it?  Just as important,  does the Charles fit
 
The race track much be 2K.  It must be straight.   There is only on spot on the Charles which fits the bill,  and it is close.   That is the area from about the Esplanade and under the Mass Ave bridge.  That one straight away is close to 2K,  but you need to go under the bridge, and I don't know if that would be allowed.   They had to create a man made lake in London for the event
 

WayBackVazquez

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drleather2001 said:
San Diego is simply too small and doesn't have the infrastructure for the Games.   D.C. is a possibility, I suppose.
 
Frankly, I think Dallas, San Fran and Boston have the only viable shots for a Summer games.  I would add Chicago (if they ever bid again) as the only real strong contender for the next 20 years. 
 
I'm pretty sure you've been to San Diego, so I'm not sure where you're getting this. I'd say San Diego is much better prepared for an Olympics than SF or DC. When you say "too small," what do you mean? By population, it's obviously bigger than either of those cities, and I'm not sure why you would be thinking metro area here. By area, it's probably bigger than either, and, it's California; there is plenty of room within close distance to build additional structures, though pretty much everything is already there. There are enough hotel rooms, transportation infrastructure is there... And I doubt the nearby presence of the U.S. military is much of a downside from a security standpoint.
 
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WayBackVazquez said:
 
I'm pretty sure you've been to San Diego, so I'm not sure where you're getting this. I'd say San Diego is much better prepared for an Olympics than SF or DC. When you say "too small," what do you mean? By population, it's obviously bigger than either of those cities, and I'm not sure why you would be thinking metro area here. By area, it's probably bigger than either, and, it's California; there is plenty of room within close distance to build additional structures, though pretty much everything is already there. There are enough hotel rooms, transportation infrastructure is there... And I doubt the nearby presence of the U.S. military is much of a downside from a security standpoint.
I agree. There's even a humungous US Olympic Training Center right there in eastern Chula Vista. With room to expand east. Sure the border would be worse for daily commuters, and could create extra security issues, but the tourists may enjoy the benefits. And you don't have the problem of possible rain for the outdoor events, specifically beach volleyball.
 

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BigMike said:
By the way the Fort is an interesting idea,  but could you really put a 12 thousand seat stadium there? 
 
It is a little smaller than I thought.  According to Google Maps, the interior of the fort is roughly 334 X 297 feet (hard to measure an irregular pentagon).  London's Horse Guard Parade is roughly 563 X 382, but notice that a lot of that space was taken up by two practice courts, two tents, and some dead space around the perimeter:
 

 
 
The stadium footprint appears to be roughly 373 X 200.  On Castle Island, a lot of the auxiliary courts and tents could be put in the park area surrounding the fort walls, so I think it could be done.
 

Orel Miraculous

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
First and the toughest part of this, of course, is the Olympic Village. The 20-30 minute walk would take through Roxbury. Are you assuming the area gentrifies like the northern end of South End in the next 10 years as part of it?
 
Errr, I think your geography is a little off here.  The village is bordered by the South End to the immediate west, and South Boston to the East. Fort Point Channel is north, and there would still be some rail yards to the south.  The only way anyone would walk through Roxbury from the village would be if they were going to Franklin Park (which is too far for anyone to walk anyway) and even still, it's not like Roxbury is some kind of war zone.
 

mabrowndog

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Orel Miraculous said:
I thought I'd mess around with some ideas for how Boston could pull this off.  
 
I must say, I'm impressed. You've got a talent for this logistics stuff.
 
However, the extensive fragmentation of sites (and lack of a central Olympic Park) would seem to pose a security nightmare.
 

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BigMike said:
 
I think you would see events more spread out around Eastern Mass.  I think if you were going to do this, then you almost have to use DCU center in Worcester, and Tsongas arena up in Lowell.  
One problem is most of the college venues are 2-5K fewer seats than you want/need for Olympic venues, especially when you are losing upwards of 2K seats for media.    You simply can't hold an Olympic men's basketball game at Conte. It's just not big enough even for qualifying games 
 
 
You're probably right that Conte is too small for Olympic basketball (though Morehead's 6,000 seat venue was used for some games in Atlanta), but stretching out to Worcester, Lowell, or Providence would likely be a nonstarter.  The IOC really doesn't like putting different sports in different cities unless it absolutely has to (as with sailing, kayaking, etc).  Besides, Boston's best feature as a city is that it's so dense, walkable, and transit accessible. Spread out to Worcester and you ruin that.
 
So how about this solution:  build a temporary dome over Alumni Stadium.  Now you've got a pretty cheap 20,000 seat indoor arena for basketball and indoor volleyball. Conte Forum is freed up for handball, which is a little small compared to London and Athens, but in Beijing it was played in a 7,000 seat arena and in Sydney it was played in a 10,000 seat venue so Conte's 8,600 measures up pretty well.  Wrestling can move to Matthews which,at 6000+ is more than enough.  Rugby Sevens moves to White Stadium at Franklin Park and Field Hockey moves to Harvard Stadium.
 

Orel Miraculous

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mabrowndog said:
 
I must say, I'm impressed. You've got a talent for this logistics stuff.
 
However, the extensive fragmentation of sites (and lack of a central Olympic Park) would seem to pose a security nightmare.
 
You're right that it's easier to secure one big Olympic Park, but if you look at these venues, almost all of them would be surrounded by chunks of open space, making it pretty easy to build a security perimeter and control access  Really, the only problematic venues in that sense would be Fenway, Agganis, Matthews and the Garden.
 
And this plan does have the space for an Olympic Park.  There would probably be enough room in the inner belt site for each of my proposed new venues: the main stadium, the aquatics center, the velodrome, and the softball stadium.  That's only two venues shy of London's Olympic Park, which also had the basketball stadium and the field hockey stadium.  The only reason I didn't propose building these venues there is because I think they'd be more viable after the games on a college campus.
 

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I would have to assume that Bill Russell would be the torch lighter for a Boston Summer Olympics. Local legend getting on in the years, has a gold medal from 1956. Seems like a great way to honor a man who was not treated remotely close to the way he deserves in this city for far too long a time.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Mr. Wednesday said:
This might actually be a little tricky, given that the arena sizes in the Boston schools are all over the place. BC is 200x87, BU and NU are 200x90. If they want consistent surface size, they'd have to go further afield, to Lowell, Providence, and Worcester. That would have the benefit of opening the university arenas to other events.
 
I don't think that variance will be a problem. Either a difference from rink to rink is accepted as part of the game, as it is in many college and pro leagues, or you reconfigure the boards to bring them all down to 85', or 97' or whatever the narrowest one is. It's easy to reconfigure a rink down a few feet, much more complicated to make it wider.
 
Iorio is a great rink, with an Olympic pedigree (Ted Iorio heard wind that women's hockey would be in the 1998 Games on an Olympic size rink, and since much of the projected team was from New England and New England didn't have an Olympic sized rink, he built one. They practiced there and went on to win the Gold medal. Ted Iorio deserves more recognition, he's a truly unsung US Olympic hero). Unfortunately, Iorio only seats about 500 in the Olympic size rink. It would only be useful as a practice facility.
 
Assuming no new stadium gets built, preparing Gillette Stadium for proper access would be a nightmare. Start with adding about 14,000 seats plus a crapload of new luxury suites for dignitaries & sponsors, and space for thousands of credentialed media types. You'd need a full limited-access highway to replace Route 1, a mass transit hub to replace the single-lane commuter rail track and simple platform, and numerous buildings to accommodate media and security operations.
 
Gillette wouldn't require any significant upgrade to host the opening and closing ceremonies of a Winter Olympic Games. It already seats more than BC place in Vancouver, Rice-Eccles stadium in Salt Lake City and the stadium in Sochi. Seems like the norm is about 50,000, and Gilette is way above that. In fact, you could ALMOST squeeze it into Fenway.  But I wouldn't. If some additional space is required for media and security, there are all sorts of mobile and modular options, unrented space at Patriot Place and the whole Patriots practice facility.
 
I think an upgrade to the rail station would be in order, partially because one is anyway. The truth is, none of the Olympic logistics are that much more complicated than a big NFL game (playoffs, Monday night...)
 
I would have to assume that Bill Russell would be the torch lighter for a Boston Summer Olympics. Local legend getting on in the years, has a gold medal from 1956. Seems like a great way to honor a man who was not treated remotely close to the way he deserves in this city for far too long a time.
 
Since I am playing this game from the Winter Games side, I'll put Bill Russell in the mix, but as one of the last torch-bearers. Bobby Orr is going to be in there too, even if he's as much Canadian as American. The perfect Boston themed torch-lighters would be the 1980 hockey team, but since Salt Lake City already used them up, I'm righting a wrong and going with the guy who should have done it, (over them) in Salt Lake City - Eric Heiden.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Fred not Lynn said:
Since I am playing this game from the Winter Games side, I'll put Bill Russell in the mix, but as one of the last torch-bearers. Bobby Orr is going to be in there too, even if he's as much Canadian as American. The perfect Boston themed torch-lighters would be the 1980 hockey team, but since Salt Lake City already used them up, I'm righting a wrong and going with the guy who should have done it, (over them) in Salt Lake City - Eric Heiden.
The next time the Winter Olympics are in the US, the torch lighter is going to be Ohno.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
The next time the Winter Olympics are in the US, the torch lighter is going to be Ohno.
 
I wouldn't be half surprised if it was offered to him and he declined, "You gotta give this to Heiden first".
 

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Fenway Park for the opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics would be awesome. Gillette feels too big for something like that, and it would be a great way to use an iconic Boston venue, rather than a football stadium in the middle of nowhere.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Fenway's just about 10,000 seats too small. I guess you could add some, but remember, you have to throw a bone or two to the Kraft side.
 
Plus, we're using Fenway for the nightly medal ceremony/concert event...it'll get plenty of play.
 

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Fred not Lynn said:
Fenway's just about 10,000 seats too small. I guess you could add some, but remember, you have to throw a bone or two to the Kraft side.
 
Plus, we're using Fenway for the nightly medal ceremony/concert event...it'll get plenty of play.
 
This....If Boston were to hold the winter games and Kraft was a huge backer of this, no doubt Gillette Stadium would hold the opening of the games.
 

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Alright, I'll play along for the Winter Games, too. I still think that if you're the 27th most important city in the world, then it's the Summer Games you should be shooting for.  But Boston hosting the Winter Games would be awesome as well--and definitely easier.  Here's how I'd do it.
 
Ceremonies:  Gillette Stadium is simply not a viable option for the Opening and Closing Ceremonies.  There is absolutely no recent precedent for holding the ceremonies 30 miles away from the host city, the village, and the urban venues.  Just imagine what a disaster that pitch would be:
 
USOC:  We think Boston should host the Winter Olympics because it's a world class, globally connected city that's well situated to welcome the international community.
IOC:  Great!  That's just what we like to hear.  Tell me, where in Boston will the opening and closing ceremonies be held? As you know, these are our two most important events.
USOC:  Oh, they won't be held in Boston.
IOC:  Uhhh...
USOC: They'll be held in a small town 30 miles outside of Boston.
IOC:  Umm, ok, is that where everything else will be?  The Olympic village, the media center, the hotels?
USOC:  No.  We'll just move 60,000 people en masse from Boston to Foxboro before the ceremonies, then move them all back afterwards.  Then we'll do that again in two weeks.
IOC: We generally don't like to hold the Opening Ceremony in the middle of nowhere.
USOC:  It's not in the middle of nowhere, there's a Bass Pro Shops right next to it!
IOC:  Next!
 
It's not going to work.  But that's fine.  The stadium can be built in the same place I proposed it for the summer games.  We all know that the Revs are going to end up in a soccer specific stadium in Boston sometime in the next 20 years.  It's going to get built.  So we kill two birds with one stone and build it for the Olympics first.
 
Olympic Village:  same location as the summer proposal.
 
Olympic Flame:  I loved what Vancouver did in putting the cauldron not on the edge of the stadium but in a unique place in the central city, so how about this.  Ohno runs the torch into the stadium, does a lap, and hands it off to Heiden.  Heiden runs it back out of the stadium and down to the Lechemere Canal where Mike Eruzione is at the helm of a duck boat carrying the 1980 Olympic hockey team! Rizzo plunges the boat into the water and takes it under the Longfellow Bridge into the Charles River Basin.  The boat stops.  The water begins to bubble.  And just like the freaking Red October, the Olympic Cauldron surfaces and rises out of the river!  Rizzo lights it, and now you have the most memorable and picturesque Olympic Flame of all time!  I mean, just picture the cauldron dropped into the middle of this scene below, with chunks of ice in the river and the flame complementing the gold dome of the state house:
 

 
Phenomenal. Of course, I should mention that this is only Plan B.  In Plan A, which is weather permitting, Ohno runs the flame into the stadium and hands it to the hockey team inside.  As a team they run out of the stadium to the Lechemere Canal, where Eric Heiden is LACED UP and waiting for the torch on the polar vortexed canal!  He takes the torch from Rizzo and skates the fucking thing out into the river!  He gets to a seemingly desolate spot in the middle of the basin, raises the torch above his head, and then the ice in front of him (actually plexiglass) begins to crack!  The cauldron shatters the "ice" and raises up out of the river for Heiden to light it!  This would be, hands down, the greatest Olympic Flame lighting of all-time.  They would just stop doing it after this one, knowing that it would never be topped.
 
Figure Skating:  TD Garden
 
Hockey:  Build a temporary dome over Alumni Stadium and temporary rink inside (the NHL is getting pretty good at impromptu rinks these days, it shouldn't be too hard).  You've got a 20,000 seat venue for all hockey games and the ice can be built to Olympic standards.
 
Long Track:  Clemente Field in the Fens.  Why not? Eric Heiden won five gold medals skating outside in Lake Placid, let's bring it back outdoors!  If the Winter Classic tells us anything, it's that people have an irrational love of doing inside things outside.  Besides, how amazing would it be the watch the skaters hit the turns in front of this backdrop:
 

 
This would be the coolest Winter Olympic venue of all-time.
 
Short Track:  TD Garden
 
Curling:  Agganis
 
Cross-Country Skiing:  What? Cross-country skiing as an urban event?  You're damn right.  Oh, and I lied when I said that speed skating in the Fens would be the coolest Winter Olympic venue of all-time, because THIS is the coolest Winter Olympic venue of all-time:
 

 
That trail is 13.8 km.  Add a loop or two around the arboretum and Jamaica Pond or take the trail through the woods surrounding the VFW Parkway and you have plenty of room to host the 5, 10, 15 and 20 km races. There's plenty of room in the Blue Hills to do the 30 and 50, so all cross-country events can be held within 128.  Can you imagine who cool this would be?
 
"Here we are at the start of the Men's 15 km in beautiful Arnold Arboretum, where the skiers are immediately challenged by the highest hills the in the city of Boston!"
 

 
"The racers have survived the hills of the arboretum, made there way down Arborway, and and now race along the shore of frozen Jamaica pond."
 

 
"Now they hit a second set of hills in Olmstead Park, the hidden jewel of the Emerald Necklace!"

 
"The leaders have taken control along the banks of the Muddy River!"

 
"Downtown Boston is in sight as they enter the Fens and glide past the long track!"

 
"They hit the straight-away and fly past the mansions of Commonwealth Avenue!"

 
"Only one turn left as they head down Boylston Street next to the Public Garden!"

 
"Down the stretch they come!  The gold dome of the State House glitters like the gold in their dreams!"

 
 
Simply the greatest winter games of all-time...