Haven't watched this yet, but looks like it could be good, as most 30 for 30 productions are.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/video?vid=10410371&src=desktop&wjb
30 for 30 Shorts: The Deal
- Thread starter Corsi
- Start date
Assuming this is going to be a reminiscing thread until we can see it, what is most amazing about that trade was that the Patriots were in the process of winning their second Super Bowl, and it felt like this trade was a bigger story. Hell, it was maybe the biggest story in sports for about two months.
VideoSpacemans Bong said:
Here
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10410371
Video in the link is iPhone compatible.
This is good but could've been so much better. It really is only about the deal itself and doesn't discuss the aftermath at all, which is kind of weird. It felt like a really good first half of a 30 For 30. I think it would have been better served as a full episode instead of a short. When the credits started rolling I was like, "That's it?" The deal gets done, they show an interview with A-Rod after his introductory press conference, then it just ends. It's kind of jarring.
It's still pretty well done and enjoyable to watch, but I feel like it could've easily been fleshed out more. For one example, they show Theo talking about when Millar went on ESPN and said he'd rather have A-Rod than Manny and Nomar. Theo, obviously, wasn't real thrilled about that since the deal wasn't finalized, but they just leave that storyline hanging out there and don't follow it up. No interview with Millar or Nomar discussing the fallout from that. Because there wasn't really any discussion of the fallout from the trade at all. It's really just about how the deal happened and that's it.
I think it would've been a much better film to talk about what happened after the trade as well. It seems really hard not to include that when it's such a big part of the overall story.
It's still pretty well done and enjoyable to watch, but I feel like it could've easily been fleshed out more. For one example, they show Theo talking about when Millar went on ESPN and said he'd rather have A-Rod than Manny and Nomar. Theo, obviously, wasn't real thrilled about that since the deal wasn't finalized, but they just leave that storyline hanging out there and don't follow it up. No interview with Millar or Nomar discussing the fallout from that. Because there wasn't really any discussion of the fallout from the trade at all. It's really just about how the deal happened and that's it.
I think it would've been a much better film to talk about what happened after the trade as well. It seems really hard not to include that when it's such a big part of the overall story.
Agree with this. It felt like a recounting of the events for some sort of Civics class. You've got interviews with every one of the major players and there was so little delving in to people's motives and no talk of the fact that the Sox won two World Series without ARod before the Yankees won one with him.Soxy Brown said:
If you knew nothing of this deal it was worthwhile, but not enough Inside Baseball for me.
M
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JimD said:
I was hoping it was about the Schilling or Pedro trades. Those are some moments I'd like to relive.
edit: or Lowe/Varitek/Slocumb.
I hadn't had my membership opened here in that time, and was a regular on the redsox site forum, posting under this handle. We had someone come in and start posting under the moniker IamASoxFanRU and for whatever reason, chose me to start leaking information. He was the first to point us at the White Sox and Mags, although he never gave up Brandon McCarthy. It all went down in a thread titled, "Rumors, making sense of them" and it was absolutely nuts. 38,000 posts in about two weeks. It got to the point that a one word post would require reading 25 replies that appeared in the time it took to write the one word. It was fun until the reality he was not coming to Boston set in, then it turned ugly. I unfortunately reacted in kind.
We never learned who IamASoxFanRU was, and guesses have been offered that it was Foulke (because he gave us details of that deal that were never published and gave it to us before the deal was announced), Steinberg (an easy choice), Kapstein (also somewhat logical) , some thought it was Foulke's father-in-law (something he said indicated a possible family connection), and there were other guesses that seemed more far-fetched. The guy knew Bobby Howry quite well, hated Kenny Williams, and most definitely had an inside track on these deals. I personally think it was Foulke, because he offered a lot of clubhouse details of a time when both he and Howry were in Chicago, details that would not likely be known by a family member.
Anyway, in hindsight we came out much better by the deal not happening; and I hope to never find myself in the middle of something like that again.
We never learned who IamASoxFanRU was, and guesses have been offered that it was Foulke (because he gave us details of that deal that were never published and gave it to us before the deal was announced), Steinberg (an easy choice), Kapstein (also somewhat logical) , some thought it was Foulke's father-in-law (something he said indicated a possible family connection), and there were other guesses that seemed more far-fetched. The guy knew Bobby Howry quite well, hated Kenny Williams, and most definitely had an inside track on these deals. I personally think it was Foulke, because he offered a lot of clubhouse details of a time when both he and Howry were in Chicago, details that would not likely be known by a family member.
Anyway, in hindsight we came out much better by the deal not happening; and I hope to never find myself in the middle of something like that again.
It seems likely that you could build an argument that the 2004 and 2007 championships began with the A-Rod non-deal.
But no one can dispute that the 2013 championship began right here:
But no one can dispute that the 2013 championship began right here:
ToeKneeArmAss said:It seems likely that you could build an argument that the 2004 and 2007 championships began with the A-Rod non-deal.
But no one can dispute that the 2013 championship began right here:
I loved that picture at the time.
I love it infinitely more now.
I thought they did a very good job with the piece. It really does feel like a chapter of a bigger story, but it tells that chapter very well without teasing the next chapter. It is a decent introduction for the 4 Days in October 30 for 30 piece.
Geez, there is just so much you could do with the Yankees/Red Sox from 1995 to 2013, the rise of the Yankee dynasty, the Pedro trade and Pedro years, the pre-2003 playoff series, 2001 WS, sale of the Red Sox, the 2003 playoffs, of course the 2004 season and playoffs, the Damon betrayal, the 2007 season, the 2008-2009 offseason (Teixera signing and subsequently 2009 WS), the Arod suspension and the 2013 WS.
It is an epic tale that would make George R.R. Martin question its believability.
Geez, there is just so much you could do with the Yankees/Red Sox from 1995 to 2013, the rise of the Yankee dynasty, the Pedro trade and Pedro years, the pre-2003 playoff series, 2001 WS, sale of the Red Sox, the 2003 playoffs, of course the 2004 season and playoffs, the Damon betrayal, the 2007 season, the 2008-2009 offseason (Teixera signing and subsequently 2009 WS), the Arod suspension and the 2013 WS.
It is an epic tale that would make George R.R. Martin question its believability.
It was interesting, it got me thinking what would have happened had the deal gone. That being said, I wish they had gone at least through the 2004 season and the impact that non deal had on 2004. Pretty fun waste of a half hour though.
On a completely unrelated note . Someone should do a 30 for 30 on how Jeter and Arod played on the same side of the infield for years and yet will go down as the polar opposites of what baseball would like to acknowledge from the last 16 years or so. Baseball's favorite son playing side by side with its' self created Frankenstein.
How bad of a taste would it be for Jeter, the Yankees, Selig, and baseball as a whole if Arod actually plays SS next year because finally Jeter won't be there? (very unlikely for a plethora of reasons)
Baseball often can be blown up and talked about in life and death historical proportions but for the semi defensible reason commentators and journalists don't want to diminish Jeter the comparison between the two in my opinion has not gotten the discussion it should and I wonder if anyone will deign to draw the comparison as Jeter walks off into the sunset.
How bad of a taste would it be for Jeter, the Yankees, Selig, and baseball as a whole if Arod actually plays SS next year because finally Jeter won't be there? (very unlikely for a plethora of reasons)
Baseball often can be blown up and talked about in life and death historical proportions but for the semi defensible reason commentators and journalists don't want to diminish Jeter the comparison between the two in my opinion has not gotten the discussion it should and I wonder if anyone will deign to draw the comparison as Jeter walks off into the sunset.
bosockboy said:
I get what you're saying, but it seems premature to me. I think there's a good chance that the Dodgers are pretty good this season.
They seemed to be laughing because they were leaving an epic shitstorm of a franchise to go to this paradise....a prison break if you will.nvalvo said:
Then we proceeded to rebuild in a short few months and won a ring without them.
To me that's getting the last laugh.
If you have the time, this is well worth the read
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 30m
Column http://bit.ly/1hmtymM revisiting A-Rod trade to #Yankees 10 yrs later. #Redsox.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 30m
Column http://bit.ly/1hmtymM revisiting A-Rod trade to #Yankees 10 yrs later. #Redsox.
It really is strange to think of how different things would be if the Red Sox had gotten Rodriguez.
Or, even to a lesser extent, if the Yankees hadn't, and he had either stayed in Texas or gone somewhere else.
Not to say he was completely responsible for it, but, despite what happened in 2003, I suppose we should be kind of thankful for Aaron Boone. Or, at least, his Basketball habits.
EDIT: That comment was more in regards to the 30-for-30. Agree with Pap above about the Sherman article.
Or, even to a lesser extent, if the Yankees hadn't, and he had either stayed in Texas or gone somewhere else.
Not to say he was completely responsible for it, but, despite what happened in 2003, I suppose we should be kind of thankful for Aaron Boone. Or, at least, his Basketball habits.
EDIT: That comment was more in regards to the 30-for-30. Agree with Pap above about the Sherman article.
soxhop411 said:
As noted, interested to revisit the pieces of the deal---I had not heard Cano was one of the players offered the Rangers before.
Orza's position looks as asinine and insupportable today as it did then; this quote makes him look less than objective as well
There are more important issues that the union disgraced itself with in that timeframe, but history does not shine kindly on lifelong New Yorker Orza or this process. Best one can say is that the Sox were a lot better off in the end without ARod....so all is well that ends well I suppose.
It really depends. I think the trade would have worked out pretty well for us had the Sox let him walk when he opted out. As JA continually points out, the mistake the Yankees made was resigning him to another 10 year deal. I'd like to imagine the Sox's FO would have been smart enough to not resign him.
EDIT: I'm not all the interested in going down this rabbit hole, it's literally impossible to say that they'd have won/not won any of the WS they have since the deal went down. It's worked out incredibly well for the Sox, all things considered.
EDIT: I'm not all the interested in going down this rabbit hole, it's literally impossible to say that they'd have won/not won any of the WS they have since the deal went down. It's worked out incredibly well for the Sox, all things considered.
soxhop411 said:
In a similar vein, I found Rany Jazayerli's Grantland piece on ARod to be pretty interesting. While I reject the premise that the season results would have been the same following the trade, the information surrounding ARod's service time and how it affected his tenure with the Mariners was news to me.
http://grantland.com/features/alex-rodriguez-alternate-career-history-red-sox-yankees/
semsox said:
Hmm. The Rodriguez-free Mariners lost to the Yankees in the ALCS; Guillen had been benched for Mark McLemore in the playoffs, and McLemore went 2-for-14 in the series.
Guillen contracted tuberculosis. He wasn't exactly "benched."
--
Edit: formatting
Kind of off on a tangent here but I thought this was interesting
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/10/5398424/baseball-windows-contending
It pretty much puts the Sox as the best team in baseball right now, in terms of both being a strong contender now AND loaded with young talent, and I guess the payroll flexibility in their current roster, especially with this bit of news makes even better news.
What do you guys think about the spread of teams, it was fun to see that the Dodgers were put in their own bracket, whereas the Yankees now have to slum it with the rest of us. They still get ranked pretty highly but are in the "hella old" category
poor Philadelphia!
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/10/5398424/baseball-windows-contending
It pretty much puts the Sox as the best team in baseball right now, in terms of both being a strong contender now AND loaded with young talent, and I guess the payroll flexibility in their current roster, especially with this bit of news makes even better news.
What do you guys think about the spread of teams, it was fun to see that the Dodgers were put in their own bracket, whereas the Yankees now have to slum it with the rest of us. They still get ranked pretty highly but are in the "hella old" category
poor Philadelphia!