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2019 Steelers: The Drama Continues

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by mr_smith02, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Old Fart Tree

    Old Fart Tree the maven of meat Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Brown to the 9ers makes a ton of sense to me.
     
  2. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Seahawks, Niners, Maybe Packers or Saints are my top 4 guesses.

    Ed: based on that Steelers are more likely to send him to the NFC,and a GFIN type team with a secure QB is more likely to take him on.
     
  3. heavyde050

    heavyde050 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    As someone that watches way too many 49ers games, they need defense much more than offense.
    Kyle’s scheme is great for offense. Look at what he did with all those running backs.
    I think the 49ers would be better served spending $ on defense than investing in both Brown and Bell.
    If they had to pick one, I would guess Brown, but it would depend on the cost.
     
  4. heavyde050

    heavyde050 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    That would be awful unless the Pats won.
     
  5. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Not a chance on the Seahawks. They have too many needs and too few draft picks as it is; they'd never give up the best package that it would take. If they got him for a 4th rounder or something stupid cheap, maybe. They have Lockett and Baldwin, he'd be a nice piece to add, but I also think they learned from the Harvin fiasco.
     
  6. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    The Steelers GM came out and said they are not going to tag Le'Veon Bell so he will be a free agent. He also said there is no discount on an AB trade and that they will not make a trade that doesn't benefit the Steelers.
     
  7. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Aren't we at the point that just about any trade benefits the Steelers?
     
  8. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Dell Demps would be proud with this kind of posturing.
     
  9. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Awesome, so they are just gonna hang onto Brown and watch him sit the whole year just like Bell did this year?
     
  10. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Maybe not if Brown decides to sit out like Bell and doesn't report?
     
  11. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Not really. If he was he would have taken the Lakers shitty offer.
     
  12. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    He would sit out after getting trade he asked for?
     
  13. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    He clearly didn’t have the authority to do anything in that situation. He was a puppet GM.
     
  14. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I know.

    Anyway, my Steelers point was more that he costs $22 million to be on roster and cause problems. Or they could get something/anything for him and let him cause problems elsewhere and "save" $1 million.
     
  15. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Absolutely. In full agreement there, which is why Steelers are posturing. They’ll take whatever they can get and move on. If they don’t, they’re a bigger mess than we could have ever imagined.
     
  16. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    I took away from his comments that they won't just give him away. They'll probably still be asking for a first round pick for him.
     
  17. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No, I meant if he refuses to report to the Steelers, he's not getting paid.
     
  18. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    Steelers G.M. is OK with Big Ben calling out teammates on radio

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-with-big-ben-calling-out-teammates-on-radio/
     
  19. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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  20. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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  21. Rough Carrigan

    Rough Carrigan reasons within Reason Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    They're cracking under the pressure of trying to stay within sight of the Patriots. It's often remarked that the Patriots contribute to the destruction of the other AFC East teams by more than just 2 losses a year.

    Is the same thing going on with the Steelers?
     
  22. bigq

    bigq Member SoSH Member

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    This is not limited to the AFC East or even the AFC and more accurately applies to all teams in the NFL.
     
  23. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

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    Woof that 52 kids comment is going to go over great. Nothing a group of grown men love more than being called the kids to their asshole rapist general scumbag QB's Dad.
     
  24. KiltedFool

    KiltedFool has a terminal case of creeping sharia SoSH Member

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    Saw the short clip of AB on ESPN yesterday and the only thing I could think of with the bleached mustache was Grindlewald.
     
  25. Hoya81

    Hoya81 Member SoSH Member

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    Sources: The #Steelers are closing in on a deal to send star WR Antonio Brown to the Buffalo #Bills. There it is.
     
  26. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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  27. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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  28. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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  29. NYCSox

    NYCSox chris hansen of goats Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I hope Brown finds peace in his 20 targets each game and 10 losses each season.
     
  30. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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    I know the sentiment is already out there that the Steelers "lost' on this deal, but I don't think that can be fully ascertained until one sees who the Steelers pick up with the draft picks from the Raiders and how those two players pan out. Clearly, this AB situation had become more than a typical distraction, so we might just have an "addition by subtraction" scenario here.
     
  31. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Definitely. No doubt. The question for me is whether Tomlin still commands the the respect and attention of the locker room or if things just disintegrate.
     
  32. KiltedFool

    KiltedFool has a terminal case of creeping sharia SoSH Member

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    Not thrilled with the deal, but there is value in getting some closure and removing the distraction of watching the morph from diva to full blown T.O. level drama queen. Personally I think his odds of the Hall of Fame just took a major hit.

    Just hope that the Steeler's surprisingly long history of success drafting receivers remains active, but the bigger issue is IMO the loss of Shazier and that for all their skill at drafting receivers they're the opposite at drafting cornerbacks.
     
  33. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    I disagree. They traded Brown for pick 66 and a fifth. If they turn 66 into a Hall of Famer or a total bust, that doesn't change the trade. If you trade me $10 for $5 and then win $1000 on a $5 scratch ticket you buy with the fiver, that doesn't make trading a $10 for a $5 a good deal.
     
  34. NYCSox

    NYCSox chris hansen of goats Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm far more pissed about the dead money* than the trade return. They were boxed in by a difficult player and were forced (or maybe forced themselves?) to make a bad trade rather than a release and have him show up on the roster of a contending AFC team. Without the dead money perhaps they sign Golden Tate and CJ Mosley and suddenly the "return" doesn't look that bad.

    * And don't get me started on the last Brown restructuring done in order to make Bell's salary fit. What a shitshow.
     
  35. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    I initially thought this was dumb, too, but I've been convinced that the last structuring (last offseason) did not actually make any difference. Brown got no new money, so it really just pushed money from the 2018 cap into 2019-2021 (and thus, this year's after the trade). Without that restructure, Brown's 2018 cap hit would have been ~$17.7 MM and trading him now would leave ~$11.3 MM in dead money. Instead, his 2018 cap hit was a little less than $8 MM and the dead money now is ~$21 MM. Either way, you're paying him ~$29 MM across 2018 and 2019, and with the ability to roll over unused cap space (of which Pitt had a bunch because of the Bell situation) it really doesn't make any difference.
     
  36. NYCSox

    NYCSox chris hansen of goats Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Good point. Of course the way it worked out still added an additional $10 MM in dead money ($21 MM vs $11 MM) so it's still meaninful.
     
  37. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    It doesn't matter though. That additional $10 MM they would have paid in 2018. Instead they get to roll over an extra $10 MM from 2018 to 2019 but have to pay an extra $10 MM in dead money. It's even steven. If they hadn't renegotiated the deal they would have paid the exact same in the final analysis, because there was no new money.
     
  38. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    If the Steelers were boxed in it was based on some bad assumptions that they took in their salary negotiation approaches with Brown and with Bell. Perhaps it's because most players kind of accept terms even under a player-unfriendly CBA, but nothing about the Steelers' approach seemed to suggest that they considered the possibility that Brown and Bell would act in what might be an economically irrational way.

    I know Tomlin gets a lot of the blame for engendering this culture, but it also seems that the management doing things in specific ways such as franchise tagging Bell seems to have also created some resentment. (Interesting to see that the Patriots by contrast have moved away from the franchise tag approach.)
     
    #88 singaporesoxfan, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  39. Vinho Tinto

    Vinho Tinto Member SoSH Member

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    I’m convinced half of Tomlin’s value to management is that he has no issue taking public bullets for them. A good number of issues his critics have with how he runs the locker room we’re just as prevalent under Cowher.
     
  40. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    25,330
    Yeah, with cap carryovers you really can't look at one particular hit taken with a cut or trade as a one-year phenomenon in isolation. The Steelers are getting hit with a high cap charge for the trade precisely because they took savings in prior years. And extra cap savings carries over.

    One way to look at this is from a pay to play perspective. What did the Steelers have to pay (not in cash but in cap charges) to have Brown on the team the last two years. That is, taking the when out of the equation and simply looking at Brown's net cap charge for the last two years, the answer is $21.6 million per year. (There are a number of different ways to calculate, but I think that's the most fair way to look at it.) That's an overpay, sure. But not ridiculous for a guy with 2800 yards and 24 TDs over that period of time. That has basically been the same as Mike Evans cap charge over the last two years -- a little more. (That's not entirely fair, because Evans has a lower cap after which is what they bought with the higher cap in the early portion.)
     
  41. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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    Given all the non-financial aspects of the AB drama-fest, I still believe the Steelers made a deal that will benefit the team/organization and its brand both now and far down the road. Holding out for a deal where they hopefully get another team's first-round pick would only have exacerbated what has become an untenable situation, especially if no deal ever came to fruition.

    Agree with it or not, the organization decided to stick/side with Roethlisberger and Tomlin, both of whom were targets of AB's social media sideshow and it had become abundantly clear those riffs were not going to be repaired. Again, with this level of distraction, it is very difficult to envision a scenario where AB would have shown up for the 2019 season ready to produce as he had in the past; AB's histrionics forced the front office's hands, so in that regard, I guess the Steelers "lost". Still, as a lifelong Steelers fan, I am now looking forward to the draft and the 2019 season more than I had been prior to the AB and Bell crap, and I am certain I am not in the minority amongst Steelers fans when it comes to this mindset...to me, that's a win for the Steelers.
     
  42. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,781
    I don't have an opinion on this one way or the other, but it has nothing to do with my post that you quoted here.
     
  43. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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    I was simply stating why I don't see it as a lost deal for the Steelers. This situation was about more than the money and a contract, IMHO.
     
    #93 mr_smith02, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  44. Fred in Lynn

    Fred in Lynn Member SoSH Member

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    I was telling myself that same story for most of the day. Consider this an intervention: they lost. It doesn’t matter whether they draft two future HOFers or two guys who get cut in camp. The value for Brown (“AB” is dead to me) was much higher.

    That being written, the public sentiment is certainly skewed too far toward the Raiders. It’s as though nobody is aware that the Steelers didn’t get fleeced because they forgot how great Brown was, but because they so badly wanted to be rid of him. Thy didn’t even hold fast to a first-round pick; they just said “fine” and cut bait. I know the Raiders are excited, and rightly so, but an alarm bell or two should be going off. While they got the great on-field player, they also got all the baggage. Let’s see how Jon Gruden feels when Brown starts missing meetings and posting secretly recorded locker room meetings on social media.
     
  45. Michelle34B

    Michelle34B lurker

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    Antonio Brown is producing at a historic rate. If he had a serious injury, he could end up being released and playing on a one year deal with no guaranteed money somewhere else. I'm not excusing all of the pageantry on his way out of town, but the problems in Pittsburgh definitely extend well beyond him.
     
  46. Fred in Lynn

    Fred in Lynn Member SoSH Member

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    You can’t see it, but I’m playing the world’s smallest violins for him. He didn’t sign the $68M extension under duress. He wasn’t backed into a corner and left without options. Maybe he should have insisted on more guaranteed money or not signed the extension.

    What are the problems that extend well beyond Brown? Not seeing it. They might have to adjust their hard lines a bit in contract negotiations (and not make stupid comments Kevin Colbert), but it’s not as though they do that to be unnecessarily punitive to their players; they’re doing it for the benefit of the on-field product in current and future years. As for the locker room, I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to suggest it will be brighter and sunnier in 2019. They won’t miss Brown in the locker room one bit. They’ll miss him on the field.
     
  47. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

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    Does anyone really think a locker room with Mike Tomlin and Roethlisberger isn't going to be a mess just because Brown is gone?
     
  48. Michelle34B

    Michelle34B lurker

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    Dez Bryant is the same age, and he tore his achilles last year with the Saints in his second practice. He held out for a one-year, 1.25m contract.

    I'm not excusing him for his behavior, and I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for him. I'm pretty sure AB feels the same.

    Colbert came out three weeks ago and called Roethlisberger the unquestioned leader of the team. They're going to give Big Ben an extension. Maybe I am missing it, but I haven't heard anyone else in support. James Harrison said he didn't know how unprepared the Steelers were under Tomlin until he played in new England. If the problems really don't extend beyond Brown, then where are all the voices in support of Tomlin and Big Ben?
     
  49. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    We’ll see. If things don’t change, nobody is minding the store.

    Playing a Rooney for a second, I’d have been tempted to fire Tomlin and call Roethlisberger in to underscore that he works for me not vice versa. Be a good teammate and stay in your lane.

    But firing people is not a solution unless you have somebody in the wings who would be better. And historically, the Steelers are loathe to churn HCs.
     
  50. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    This might be the time that philosophy is the wrong play.
     

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