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2019 NFL Rule Changes

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by tims4wins, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    19,954
    Didn't want to bury this in the NFCCG game thread. BB has been advocating "make everything reviewable" for years.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...sider-judgment-challenge-penalty-disincentive

    As a possible solution to avoid the type of missed call from the NFC Championship Game, the NFL is expected to consider a plan that would allow limited coaches' challenges for incorrect judgment calls that also could include a penalty or time run off if the coach is wrong, per a league source.
     
  2. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    16,867
    This is an abomination.

    By which I mean this sentence structure:

     
  3. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    So you could get 2 penalties on one play? Awesome.

    And the play that prompted this happened after 2 minute warning, so they'll be allowing coaches to challenge that late? But not other things?

    So next year we get a "If they can challenge PI call with 90 seconds left, why won't they let them challenge the spot? If you want to get the calls right, don't you want to get all of them right?"
     
  4. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    21,088
    Think of the drama when Andy Reid throws a flag for a bad roughing call, we get a five minute commercial break and overturn, then Belichick tosses a flag for holding or DPI for the same play, we get more commercials, and then an overturn again!

    The idea of getting every call right is nice, but this has potential to really suck for viewing. The controversy won’t be going away.
     
  5. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    19,954
    You make two great points. Imagine a play where you complete a big play, maybe even for a TD, but you get called for offensive holding. So instead of the great play, maybe now you are facing 1st and 20, or 2nd and 15, or whatever. So you challenge... and you lose, and are penalized another 15 yards. Drive over.

    The two minute warning point is also very good. This is going to be very difficult for the NFL to manage. Let's just say my confidence in their ability to do this successful is... not high.
     
  6. CFB_Rules

    CFB_Rules Member SoSH Member

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    156
    I don't like it and I don't expect it to be approved. A few reasons why:

    It ruins flow even more than the current replay system, and flow is important to the watchability of a product. You know how on every tight touchdown or catch play you celebrate but in the back of your head you think "This might not count, it will go to review". Now expect that on every play. Wide open receiver for a TD? Wait, maybe the other team will challenge holding.

    There will be no such thing as a walk-off win in a world where fouls are challengable. Super Bowl XXXVI, Super Bowl LI, and last week's AFC title game would all have ended very differently, with a Referee looking into a tablet and then announcing to the world that the game was over several minutes after the play. The other team would have no incentive NOT to challenge a game-winning play for any foul they could imagine.

    Lots of other contingencies: What if there are multiple uncalled fouls on a play? Can a team challenge the same play twice for separate fouls? What if you have a play like the roughing call in KC? Would the Chiefs challenge the roughing foul, followed by the Patriots challenging for a DPI? Maybe followed by the Chiefs looking for a hold?
     
  7. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    8,197
    Booth in the Saints game should have just got in the ear of the referee and said "throw a flag and get the crew together and see if anybody saw what we're looking at up here". Let the on-field guys get together and see if any of the officials who aren't point person on that part of the field would have enough to say to make that play PI or targeting. I'm not a fan of making judgement calls reviewable. Dudes on the field just need to do their job better.
     
  8. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    8,684
    I don't think they should be allowed to challenge say hand fighting and ask for it to be a PI call. I do think something like, did the DB make contact before the ball arrived and the only reason the ref didn't throw the flag was because he thought otherwise or did he make zero contact but was called for PI should be challengeable.

    I would hate to see holding challenges, not because I don't think there is some merit but because Joe Public would be calling for a challenge every time an OL has their hands outside the frame even though that isn't technically holding. The general public understanding of holding is not close to the actual rule book and the way the game is called.
     
  9. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    6,955
    I would prefer that judgment calls be kept as they are. However, if they are going to do it, make it a "judgment challenge" rule:

    - Each team gets one judgment challenge per game. Doesn't matter if it's correct or not. Just one. No penalty or removed timeout.

    - Replay officials review the play at game speed. No super slo-mo that takes years to analyze with a million rules to parse to determine if the contact was allowable or not.

    - If there is conclusive proof that the judgment call (or non-call) on the field was wrong, then correct the call. If inconclusive in any way, the call stands.

    The "every call must be corrected by replay" purists will hate it, but that's a feature, not a bug.
     
  10. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    6,866
    This is basically what I was thinking. Add an official in the booth, who can watch the game on TV (not necessarily broadcast view, but maybe he/she has access to a few cameras). Let this person be in live communication to the referees in real time. Let this person be able to throw a virtual flag in real time in the ear of the referee. No reviews.
    This basically gives a second ( or in some cases, third or 4th) set of eyes to a play. I would imagine that many penalties are missed simply due to the ref on the filed having his/her view blocked, impaired, or otherwise distracted (e.g. for the latter, imagine a catch on the sideline such that the ref on the field is concentrating on the catch or the feet, and thus totally misses a facemask).
     
  11. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    8,684
    Definitely like the real time speed only for judgement calls. If it isn't obvious in real-time then let the play stand. This would also keep the review time to a very brief stoppage. Might even limit the # of times they can watch said play.
     
  12. Awesome Fossum

    Awesome Fossum Member SoSH Member

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    1,428
    I like the game speed suggestion. My vote is to drop challenges entirely and just put hook up the crew to referees in a booth who can correct obvious mistakes as they go. No running over to a monitor; if something needs to be changed, the refs can be told of the change to make. If the ref feels like they need help, they can make an initial call and then ask for it. Correcting the obvious calls correct and keeping the game moving should be the priorities, and I think the NFL is failing on both fronts to varying degrees.
     
  13. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

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    4,610
    Leave it to the NFL to take a problem of their own creation, propose a complicated solution that has obvious problems, stand back as the proposal gets picked apart and then throw up their hands and say 'welp, we tried' without actually doing anything to fix the original problem. I guess it's better than actually making a bad situation worse. Still, not as good as fixing an obvious problem with a simple solution.
     
  14. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    6,866
  15. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    8,684
    You expect them to add more refs (costs) to every single game every week??? When the current solution is one person does the job for all the games.
     
  16. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    32,501
    Roger says that expanding replay is an option.

    Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 25m25 minutes ago
    Roger Goodell, on the #Saints missed call: “We understand the frustration they feel. Whenever the officiating is part of a discussion, it’s not a good thing. But we also know our officials are human. ... We will look again at instant replay, should replay be expanded?”
     
  17. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    2,488
    Next thing you know, they will be asking for full-time refs. Think this league is made of money?
     
  18. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    32,501
    Are we human or are we dancer?

    CBS News‏Verified account @CBSNews 1m1 minute ago
    NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell addresses the controversial no-call in NFC championship game: "Our officials are human...they are not going to get it right every time"
     
  19. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    12,593
    I am 100% in on challenging penalties as i think that's not a major issue. I'm 100% against challenging non-calls to get a penalty flag, that's just opening up Pandora's Box. There's so many plays where there are non-called penalties, you'll enter a territory where huge plays at the end of the game will be challenged hoping to get a DPI or holding. The flow of the game already sucks, that'd make it worse.
     
  20. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    8,684
    So your response to Sean Payton is LOL too bad so sad? I think any change to challenging penalties has to take that circumstance into consideration. If 65K people see a penalty that doesn't get called that is much worse than a maybe, maybe not penalty getting called.
     
  21. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    9,842
    If the NO/LAR play had happened in college it would have been called in from above as a penalty for helmet to helmet, correct? Or no?
     
  22. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    21,366
    So in other words, Roger, Bill Belichick was right all along?
     
  23. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    33,339
    Please just don’t change the rules during the Super Bowl.
     
  24. trs

    trs lurker

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    72
    This is more or less similar to the VAR system used in some soccer leagues, including in Spain where I live. While the system is far from perfect, it is improving, and very rarely now does the ref on the field go racing off the field to check an off-side call, handball, goal at a monitor. For the most part he just pauses play at the next available break in action and listens for any potential change to the call made on the field.

    In most cases, this includes "judgement" calls such as when to assess a yellow/red card or even penalties, which as many of you know here are also judgement calls. Given that American football has natural breaks in the action anyway, it would seem like this would be rather easy to implement, just have the ref stand over the ball if they get buzzed (similar to what they do during substitutions) from upstairs that they need some time.

    Lastly, what about making a list of "judgment calls" that can be reviewed and rather than have a special "judgement challenge," just have the coach challenge the spot of the ball, which is already allowed. If the coach thinks a penalty should have been called, well then technically the spotting of the ball is incorrect, and of course vice-versa, if a penalty was called that perhaps should not have been, you can re-spot the ball after eliminating the penalty. It just seems odd that upon looking at a replay to see whether two feet were in-bounds or if a "football motion" was made (judgement call already), refs have to ignore the obvious face-mask or grab that occurred beforehand, essentially negating the importance of the actions taken afterwards.
     
  25. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    11,335
    Maybe there’s a way to limit it to ‘path of the ball’ penalties, called or left uncalled.
    That would exclude holding against the pass rush, it would including holding at run blocking (or that type of holding could be excluded too). It would only include downfield contact if the ball goes to that receiver later in that play, and of course it would include PI.
    Face masks maybe always on the table?
    Edit:
    I like making them ‘challenging the spot’ items. Also it should be clear that if a team challenges, the refs are allowed to look at other factors and potential other offsetting panelties, again within a ‘path of the ball’ stabdard.
     
    #25 simplyeric, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  26. Awesome Fossum

    Awesome Fossum Member SoSH Member

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    1,428
    When the CFL made everything reviewable, this is exactly what happened. Teams would find an illegal contact or something on the backside of a play and were constantly challenging (and winning) non-calls. It was absolutely brutal to watch and the league had to make changes midseason.

    Exactly. And that Robert Woods catch in the Super Bowl is a perfect example. Rather than the Rams running to the ball and getting the snap off OR the Patriots challenging and us all spending five minutes of our lives watching the slow-motion replays, the ref could have stood over the ball for ten extra seconds, gotten a yes or no vote from the booth, and we could have played on.
     
  27. AB in DC

    AB in DC OG Football Writing Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    5,318
    Another comp would be in baseball, where a manager can sort of ask the umpires to huddle together to make sure they all agree on the call. Add an option for the head ref to call upstairs on his own volition and I think this could work.
     

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