2019 NFL Playoff Game Thread: NFCCG

DJnVa

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And because this is 2019, there may be a lawsuit on behalf of Saints season ticket holders.

 

BigJimEd

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Big picture is that there's no excuse for that non-call and there's no doubt that it took a win away from the Saints. What happened before or after is totally irrelevant to the impact of that easy call. Payton could have done 1,000 different (and better) things before and after that fiasco and it's still a robbery because it doesn't change the facts of that moment. Saying "he shoulda", or "what if" has no bearing on what actually happened, which was the Saints getting a championship taken away by an enormously incompetent decision. This wasn't a judgment error or a blocked view error. This was a game-changing event...that changed the game.

Payton doesn't have to make the right clock management decision there. Brees doesn't have to make a better throw in OT. Why?, because they both belonged on the field receiving a trophy regardless of any other consequential event. Something is broken in the NFL and they better fix it.

...and I call that this board would be livid over the non-call on the pick if the Pats had lost (one drop on a 3rd down), even though Brady could have not thrown 2 (really 3) interceptions and the team could have kicked a field goal. Those events had nothing to do with the pick non-call, which was a much more difficult decision than the obvious head to head and PI tackle.
Of course we would but we are also fans. As a coach and an organization it's a little bit different. Control what you can control. Look at where you can improve. That's generally what good organizations will do. Payton will probably re-focus and maybe he gets the rest of the team to put it behind them.
But during the game it sure looked like he lost focus or more precisely was focused on something that was over and out of his control.

Those other issues and mistakes affect the game as well. People want to gloss over those other missed calls as if they don't matter. That missed face mask call could have cost the Rams a chance at Superbowl. Not sure why we are ok with one but not the other. If the Rams lost and put out a statement like that, they would basically be labeled sore losers.

I do agree the NFL needs to fix their officiating. They've needed to do that forever really. I've said for years I believe it is the worst among professional leagues.
The fact that there were so many missed calls just proves it. This whole weekend and most of the playoffs have been poor.
Hopefully this will force them to take a good comprehensive look at their officiating. But I'm not optimistic. I'm guessing they'll make a re-active change that will ultimately make little difference.
 

Ralphwiggum

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If you are going to go back and re-do non-calls in that game you have to talk about the missed face mask on Goff that would have given the Rams first and goal at the 2 yard line when they had to settle for a FG instead. Yeah, the missed PI was brutal, but the missed face mask was just as blatant, it just didn't happen on a play that basically would have sealed the game for the Rams.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Every televised game includes live footage or replays that show apparent penalties. Sometimes the announcer sees something that clues the director (or vice versa). If those events are evident in near real-time, why can't the NFL have the ability to use every tool available to get a call correct? Particularly events that are shown to a nationwide audience within seconds of them happening...

I don't know how that would function in practical terms, but they can't continue to have audiences that see obvious mistakes ignored simply because the guy on the field doesn't have a slow motion brain or telephoto eyes. Saying. "it's part of the game" doesn't cut it for me, unless that part is never shown to the viewer. Televised sports are TV entertainment. As long as the entertainment includes views that would lead to a more fair outcome, TV should insist upon it. In other words, sports needs to catch up with technology or the technology should be changed. No reason to have a fan feel cheated becasue of something he saw that an official or umpire didn't.

edit: I know there will be push back about slowing down the game, etc. - but things happening in a one-and-done game take on more significance. I'm including the non-face mask in this rant as it was obvious to viewers but not the officials.
 

BigJimEd

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I think that goes back to Belichick's proposal to allow all players be reviewable.
I'm in favor of the replay officials signaling down anytime during the game when they see something.
 

BigJimEd

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They could legitimately call holding on every play
Yup. It's tricky. And to be honest, I'm not sure about penalties. That's a tough line to walk.
There's talk of making PI reviewable. I'm against that. At least that by itself. Why that and not the missed facemask or the incorrect roughing the passer?
There were also a bunch of other PI calls that weren't called over the weekend. Not unusual in the playoffs when refs want to let them play and not decide the game.
Call them the same regular season first quarter to overtime in Superbowl.
 

bosockboy

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Heard on a radio interview today pretty remarkable stat. Saints lost consecutive playoff games with 99% win probability under 2 minutes to play (with the assumption of the correct PI call). That's double lotto winner type odds.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Heard on a radio interview today pretty remarkable stat. Saints lost consecutive playoff games with 99% win probability under 2 minutes to play (with the assumption of the correct PI call). That's double lotto winner type odds.
That's really amazing. Tough situations for those fans. At least they do have that one win.

Wouldn't it be something like 1/10,000?

But, more fundamentally, even if we're talking about lightening strike odds, generally when I hear a stat like that, which suggests that something that happened in a sport being played and tracked for less than a hundred years, was a one in a kazillion chance, my assumption is that the stat is flawed not that we've seen something nearly impossible.
 
Brees and the Saints have already won a Super Bowl - my team (the Saints' biggest rival, and vice versa) led one 28-3 and lost. Hard for me to get *too* worked up by all of this, or feel too sorry for the Saints fans that have been to the top of the mountain. Here's who you should really feel sorry for:

Bengals
Bills
Browns*
Cardinals
Chargers
Falcons
Jaguars*
Lions*
Panthers
Texans*
Titans
Vikings

None of those franchises have ever won a Super Bowl. (The four teams marked with asterisks have never *reached* a Super Bowl.)
 

johnmd20

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I definitely don't feel sorry for the Saints. This is Karma for Payton dicking around with Hill for so much of this season. He's the smartest guy in the room, but he's also the guy who passes on first down with the best running back in the game on his team and his QB with a noodle arm, when all he had to do with kill the clock. Because at that point in the game, the clock was the enemy, not the Rams. The Rams were simply passive viewers at that point, until Payton decided to pass.
 

bosockboy

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That's really amazing. Tough situations for those fans. At least they do have that one win.

Wouldn't it be something like 1/10,000?

But, more fundamentally, even if we're talking about lightening strike odds, generally when I hear a stat like that, which suggests that something that happened in a sport being played and tracked for less than a hundred years, was a one in a kazillion chance, my assumption is that the stat is flawed not that we've seen something nearly impossible.
Yes I was spitballing on the lotto winner odds.

Losing on a hail mary the previous year and then an undeniable incorrect call which turns a W into an L is unprecedented obviously.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Yes I was spitballing on the lotto winner odds.

Losing on a hail mary the previous year and then an undeniable incorrect call which turns a W into an L is unprecedented obviously.
Yeah, I was being snarky mostly. Whatever the numbers, it's crazy.
 

Marciano490

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Was that Beast Mode run against New Orleans in the playoffs or to make the playoffs? That was another crazy, end of game loss in heartbreaking fashion.
 

Seels

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a lawsuit? Fucking LOL

This call was bad but honestly there have definitely been more impactful calls.

You know the problem here is that this call is going to overshadow Payton's less than great coaching and Brees less than great passing. Guys like Reid and McCarthy have taken a lot of shit over the years with their bad clock management but this is a factor in just about every close game the Saints have. I'll give Payton all the credit in the world for his contributions to the offensive side of the ball, but he is a pretty lackluster coach outside of that.
 

Dehere

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It was. They also lost an insane 2012 divisional to the Niners in which four touchdowns were scored in the last four minutes. That really was the best Saints team ever IMO.

(Referring to Marciano’s post here)
 

Jnai

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I think that goes back to Belichick's proposal to allow all players be reviewable.
I'm in favor of the replay officials signaling down anytime during the game when they see something.
Have 10 isolated people watching the game. Each of them gets a buzzer. They get to stop and rewind and slow mo, but the only time the game stops for a review is if all ten of them buzz down before the ball is snapped.

Plus, then all of those ten people are kept in a house with cameras, instant reality tv spinoff.

(in all seriousness, fixing the really egregious misses is what needs to be done here. We don't need to fix the ticky tack stuff. This miss was egregious.)
 

cshea

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The issue would be the league attempting to define egregious. I can’t see them coming up with a reasonable review process for penalties.
 

BigJimEd

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The issue would be the league attempting to define egregious. I can’t see them coming up with a reasonable review process for penalties.
Exactly. Who decides egregious? I can think of several off the top of my head that were just as egregious this weekend.
 

Marciano490

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Why not just one extra special challenge flag per game that can be used to review anything?
 

geoduck no quahog

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Thing is, these "outside" challenges don't need to take a long time. Back to the concept of keeping the viewer's sanity: if it can be seen within 5 seconds by the director or color guy (and us) - then call for a quick booth review. Put a couple of guys up in the booth with a Fox feed and a radio who can say, "Fuck Matty, I think a blatant call was just missed..." or limit it to specific penalties. Or stop showing replays that just frustrate fans.

I enjoyed baseball more before pitch FX (I know, get off of my infield...er, lawn). I'm happier not knowing every time an ump misses strike 3 or ball 4 (or 5 or 6), assuming the stupid TV box is even accurate. Use robots...fine. Piss everyone off? Why?

As TV broadcasts and technologies get better, leagues need to understand the ramifications and keep up...not point out every time an official makes a mistake and call it the "human element".
 

Harry Hooper

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Brees and the Saints have already won a Super Bowl - my team (the Saints' biggest rival, and vice versa) led one 28-3 and lost. Hard for me to get *too* worked up by all of this, or feel too sorry for the Saints fans that have been to the top of the mountain. Here's who you should really feel sorry for:

Bengals
Bills
Browns*
Cardinals
Chargers
Falcons
Jaguars*
Lions*
Panthers
Texans*
Titans
Vikings

None of those franchises have ever won a Super Bowl. (The four teams marked with asterisks have never *reached* a Super Bowl.)
Didn't the Jags win a Super Bowl a few months back?
 
Didn't the Jags win a Super Bowl a few months back?
I know you're at least half-joking, but this really is one of the stupidest memes for Pats fans to latch onto. This is the best football dynasty in history we're talking about - OF COURSE other teams get super-motivated to play the Patriots, and those lesser teams have every right to get super-excited if they somehow defeat the Patriots. Why shouldn't they view their Pats games as mini-Super Bowls? They're testing themselves against the best. That's how this works.
 

tims4wins

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I know you're at least half-joking, but this really is one of the stupidest memes for Pats fans to latch onto. This is the best football dynasty in history we're talking about - OF COURSE other teams get super-motivated to play the Patriots, and those lesser teams have every right to get super-excited if they somehow defeat the Patriots. Why shouldn't they view their Pats games as mini-Super Bowls? They're testing themselves against the best. That's how this works.
Correct, but it is laughable when these other teams get up for the Pats and then fall flat on their faces in the following weeks. Instead of putting everything into beating the Pats, maybe they should approach games against lesser opponents with more focus. The Dolphins were in position to make the playoffs are beating the Pats, and they lost out. Every team that beat the Pats this year played horribly in the weeks that followed. I don't think it is a coincidence. In fact I think there is a stat going back several years that teams lose a hugely disproportionate amount of games the week after beating the Pats. It is just interesting because one of the tenets of the BB/TB12 era is there are no "big games" - every game matters as much as the next one.
 
Correct, but it is laughable when these other teams get up for the Pats and then fall flat on their faces in the following weeks. Instead of putting everything into beating the Pats, maybe they should approach games against lesser opponents with more focus. The Dolphins were in position to make the playoffs are beating the Pats, and they lost out. Every team that beat the Pats this year played horribly in the weeks that followed. I don't think it is a coincidence. In fact I think there is a stat going back several years that teams lose a hugely disproportionate amount of games the week after beating the Pats. It is just interesting because one of the tenets of the BB/TB12 era is there are no "big games" - every game matters as much as the next one.
Fair comment and analysis - in the context of how those other teams ought to play and behave. In the context of how I think Pats fans should react when other teams do get super-motivated to play the Patriots and win, I'd ask for much less salt, please.
 

DJnVa

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Fair comment and analysis - in the context of how those other teams ought to play and behave. In the context of how I think Pats fans should react when other teams do get super-motivated to play the Patriots and win, I'd ask for much less salt, please.
You realize we're just having fun right? That we're not *really* worked up about it? And we're on a Pats-centric website preaching to the choir?
 
You realize we're just having fun right? That we're not *really* worked up about it? And we're on a Pats-centric website preaching to the choir?
@Harry Hooper (above) was clearly having some fun; it doesn't always sound like everyone here is having fun when they talk like that. Anyone can be whatever kind of fan they want to be, of course, but there are ways to not come across to others as an entitled ass. And if you want to avoid the latter, acknowledging that being #1 does and ought to put a target on your back certainly helps.
 

DJnVa

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@Harry Hooper (above) was clearly having some fun; it doesn't always sound like everyone here is having fun when they talk like that. Anyone can be whatever kind of fan they want to be, of course, but there are ways to not come across to others as an entitled ass. And if you want to avoid the latter, acknowledging that being #1 does and ought to put a target on your back certainly helps.
Sure, but again, there's not exactly Jags fans here--we're talking amongst ourselves.

And I think, at least in my case, is it's not that we care there's a target on our backs it's that the Jags spent the offseason saying things like "the better team lost", playing into it. They built it up into a big game and then people say fans on the other team shouldn't respond in kind? That's what sports is--entertainment.

And I can assure you, that as much as we may be entitled asses in here, it's because we are in here. But to each his own. In this case I think you're reading way too much into. But then again, I'm not that bright :)
 

johnmd20

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Sure, but again, there's not exactly Jags fans here--we're talking amongst ourselves.

And I think, at least in my case, is it's not that we care there's a target on our backs it's that the Jags spent the offseason saying things like "the better team lost", playing into it. They built it up into a big game and then people say fans on the other team shouldn't respond in kind? That's what sports is--entertainment.

And I can assure you, that as much as we may be entitled asses in here, it's because we are in here. But to each his own. In this case I think you're reading way too much into. But then again, I'm not that bright :)
Man alive, if we can't mock the Jaguars, who can we mock? They crushed the Patriots and then their season ended immediately after. That warrants a mocking.
 

54thMA

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Brees and the Saints have already won a Super Bowl - my team (the Saints' biggest rival, and vice versa) led one 28-3 and lost. Hard for me to get *too* worked up by all of this, or feel too sorry for the Saints fans that have been to the top of the mountain. Here's who you should really feel sorry for:

Bengals
Bills
Browns*
Cardinals
Chargers
Falcons
Jaguars*
Lions*
Panthers
Texans*
Titans
Vikings

None of those franchises have ever won a Super Bowl. (The four teams marked with asterisks have never *reached* a Super Bowl.)
The fact that the Lions have never made the Super Bowl is just pathetic, outside of a year here or there, they've basically sucked since Christ was in a crib, been to a whopping one NFCCG where they got demolished by the Redskins.

The biggest bust on that list is the Vikings; if I'm not mistaken, they've been to 8 NFCCG's and 4 Super Bowls and have nothing to show for it.

Edit; I just looked it up; they've actually been to 10, 4-6 in the NFCCG and 0-4 in the Super Bowl, including that epic fail vs the Falcons at home.

Wow.

Brutal.
 
Last edited:

Al Zarilla

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The fact that the Lions have never made the Super Bowl is just pathetic, outside of a year here or there, they've basically sucked since Christ was in a crib, been to a whopping one NFCCG where they got demolished by the Redskins.

The biggest bust on that list is the Vikings; if I'm not mistaken, they've been to 8 NFCCG's and 4 Super Bowls and have nothing to show for it.

Edit; I just looked it up; they've actually been to 10, 4-6 in the NFCCG and 0-4 in the Super Bowl, including that epic fail vs the Falcons at home.

Wow.

Brutal.
The Lions (and the Browns), OK, the Cardinals too, won pro football championships before the Super Bowl era. Winning the NFL Title Game was the highest prize there was in those years. Yet, nobody ever gives those teams credit for those, while the Sox fly pennants for world series titles outside of Fenway from 1912, 1918, etc.
 
The Lions (and the Browns), OK, the Cardinals too, won pro football championships before the Super Bowl era. Winning the NFL Title Game was the highest prize there was in those years. Yet, nobody ever gives those teams credit for those, while the Sox fly pennants for world series titles outside of Fenway from 1912, 1918, etc.
That's a very fair point.
that epic fail vs the Falcons at home
This was my other greatest day as a Falcons fan, of course - I can still picture the exact bar in London's East End where I watched it - and it does help me keep some perspective that hey, sometimes my team(s) can occasionally benefit from someone else's heartbreak.
 

54thMA

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The Lions (and the Browns), OK, the Cardinals too, won pro football championships before the Super Bowl era. Winning the NFL Title Game was the highest prize there was in those years. Yet, nobody ever gives those teams credit for those, while the Sox fly pennants for world series titles outside of Fenway from 1912, 1918, etc.
The Lions last won the NFL Title game in 1957 (had to look that up); so basically, no one under the age of 70 who's a Lions fan remembers it.

With the offensive talent they've had over the years, you'd think that they would have fallen ass backwards into at least one Super Bowl.

As far as the Browns, they've been there twice, doing so wearing those ugly ass purple and black Ravens uniforms.
 

E5 Yaz

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{quote]One person with competition committee ties said the league needs to take steps in the future to ensure that officials do not work games that involve teams in the states in which they are from and that no perception of impropriety is created.[/quote]

Table for one, Mr. Payton?