Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

2018 Raiders: The Process in the West

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by AlNipper49, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. AlNipper49

    AlNipper49 Huge Member Dope

    Messages:
    40,222
    My apologies to the two members whose posts that I just inadvertently deleted. I was trying to break a topic out but instead hit delete.

     
  2. H78

    H78 Fists of Millennial Fury! SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,613
    Wow. That’s one hell of a commitment, but it sort of makes sense given the looming shift to Vegas.
     
  3. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Is he going to do the game on ESPN tomorrow night?

    That's one hell of a contract.
     
  4. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

    Messages:
    19,724
    Good luck to Raiders fans. Wow.
     
  5. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    I can't see this working out well, short term or long.
     
  6. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    58,371
    Long-term coaching arrangements always turn out bad. Just look at all the turmoil with the Patriots.
     
  7. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    48,356
    Thanks Raiders for pushing the Pats story to the side (hopefully).
     
  8. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,266
    That is a ridiculous overpay. Kudos to Gruden! He slow rolled the Raiders for years and they bit, hard.
     
  9. Boston Brawler

    Boston Brawler Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,562
    This is crazy
     
  10. EvilEmpire

    EvilEmpire Dope Staff Member Dope

    Messages:
    9,058
    Wow. Happy to have Gruden. Even happier that his pay isn't going against the salary cap.
     
  11. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,617
    I like this. Gruden is kind of a classic Raider Head Coach.

    I never thought much of his analysis but I always enjoyed the Crazy Chuckie aspect.

    That he was the HC during the Snow Bowl doesn’t hurt, either.
     
  12. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    While he is only 54, he has been out of coaching for 10 years. I get that he has been an analyst / color man, and has his annual Gruden QB camp, but has there ever been someone out of coaching so long who returned successfully? Who are some other examples?
     
  13. PayrodsFirstClutchHit

    PayrodsFirstClutchHit Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,085
    He won the SB in 2002 and then went 45-51 until he was done in 2008.

    It seems clear he is getting paid for being famous.
     
  14. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,349
    Dick Vermeil is the only one I can come up with in the NFL.
     
  15. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    48,356
    Dick Vermeil, although he won a super bowl after coming out of retirement, not before.
     
  16. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    Good call. He was obviously successful with the Rams, whether by luck or skill
     
  17. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,097
    Joe Gibbs went 30-34 with 2 playoff appearances in 4 years (still the best coaching run of the Dan Snyder era). He was gone 12 seasons.
    Dick Vermeil went 22-26 in 3 years and a SB win after 15 years off. Then went to KC and went 44-36 over 5 seasons and 1 playoff appearance.

    Tom Flores went 14-34 in 3 years in Seattle after 5 years off.
    Mike Ditka went 15-33 in 3 years in New Orleans and traded an entire draft after 5 years off.

    Bill Cowher's been gone 12 years, he's due. So is Mariucci.
     
  18. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    So what's the deal with the KC game? He's still doing it right?
     
  19. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    Thanks. Vermeil seems like best case here. I don't think the game has passed Gruden by - he is younger than Gibbs and Vermeil when they returned - but it's a long time on the sidelines.
     
  20. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,773
    So if BB were to reach the open market his base would be 400 million?
     
  21. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    48,356
    Gruden is at a great age. Not saying any more.
     
  22. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,564
    He shouldn't get to. KC coaches aren't going to give the incoming coach of a division rival the information they'd normally give a broadcaster, so it's going to compromise his ability to do the game, plus why would he criticize or praise any of their plays or decisions knowing that his takes will be analyzed?
     
  23. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,494
    His overall record is n that impressive. He took a well stocked Tampa team to a Superbowl win. There might be enough talent in Oakland where he can win games and compete. I don't see him doing much in the long term. Seemed he did well with one hot team that Dungy built. It's hard to get a read I what he did with Oakland his first term. He's done well for himself tough. Hell of a contract to take him to retirement
     
  24. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,789
    Holy shit, Cowher has been out for 12 years?! That doesn't seem right and makes me feel old.
     
  25. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,313
    I could totally see the Panthers hiring Cowher if they go out this weekend. (NC State grad). Need some "non-player" leadership with the change at the very top.
     
    #25 Ale Xander, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  26. loshjott

    loshjott Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,737
    He'll listen now that he sees what the market is for coaches 10+ yrs out of the NFL.
     
  27. Vinho Tinto

    Vinho Tinto Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,472
    I’ve always believed any desire Cowher had to coach again went away with the death of his first wife to skin cancer. He’s now remarried to a singer, enjoys being a grandfather, loves working for CBS and loves living in New York.
     
  28. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    14,353
  29. troparra

    troparra Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,823
    That's a lot of money. More than a college coach.
     
  30. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,779
    Who cares? It does count against the cap and they make millions. I think this deal is a slam dunk for the Raiders.
     
  31. Vinho Tinto

    Vinho Tinto Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,472
    That’s logical, but these owners locked out their refs for weeks over wanting them to switch from a pension to a 401K. Their frugality can be jaw dropping.
     
  32. Sox and Rocks

    Sox and Rocks Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,605
    The case for Gruden is that he won a SB with Brad Johnson; had sustained success despite never having a top notch QB (Gannon was quite good, but he wasn't before Gruden, so how much of his success should be attributed to Gruen?); always got the most out of his average or below average QBs (Gannon, Johnson, Griese, Simms, et. al. had their best seasons under him), and built a Raiders team that was arguably the best (certainly one of the best) teams in the NFL in the late 90's - early 2000's (they had one of the best 3 year runs that never resulted in a SB, a lot of which was bad luck: Gannon being knocked out of the 99 championship game by a Tony Siragusa belly flop; tuck rule; loss to Gruden's Bucs in SB when they clearly knew the Raiders plays).

    For Mark Davis, this also helps with keeping the fanbase interested their final season(s) in Oakland and having a big name coach for the move to Vegas. Clearly, this aspect is part of what he's paying for, and perhaps no other coach would provide this same benefit)

    It's definitely a balsy and expensive move by Davis.I admire him for making it, even if it doesn't work out.
     
  33. Sox and Rocks

    Sox and Rocks Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,605
    In a league that prints money and has a hard cap and constant parity, it makes sense to overpay for quality coaching. I'm not convinced Gruden deserves to be at the top, but more owners should probably try this when it doesn't affect the cap. That's true of coordinators and other assistant coaches, too.
     
  34. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,605
    I agree. Maybe this is a brilliant move, but there are some red flags here. Yes, Gruden is still young, and was a true savant in his younger years.

    But if I were a Raider fan I’d worry that this is as much about attracting Vegas season ticket holders and corporate sponsorships — “Attend our function, meet Super Bowl(TM) winning coach Jon Gruden, and get 20% off your next meal at Hooters!” — as it is about the on-field product.

    And Gruden has been out of the game for a while. Maybe it works. He’s got a good young QB and some weapons on both sides of the ball. But even Vermeil went 4-12 and 5-11 in his first 2 seasons in St. Louis. If Gruden does the same, how does that play?
     
  35. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    Those meetings would already have happened though. Should be interesting.
     
  36. Sox and Rocks

    Sox and Rocks Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,605
    Yep:[​IMG]
     
  37. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,089
    Vermeil’s first two years he had the worst roster in the league, headlined by Tony Banks at QB. Gruden inherits Carr, Cooper, a top 5 offensive line, and a top 3 defensive player in Mack. He’s not going 5-11.
     
  38. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    If Gruden is worth $100 million, and Belichick really wants to move on. What would that make BB worth on the open market? Would some team just have to give him like half of their franchise? I mean, literally, just stroke the rights to 50% of the team to Bill? That seems about right to me value wise based on what Gruden got.
     
  39. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    26,883
    If the contract is as described — close to $100 MM over 10 years — I don’t think it’s at all extravagant. Not based on what top coaches are making now — and that’s even allowing for the fact that owners probably are colluding no to suppress coaches salaries.

    10 years is a lengthy commitment, but Gruden is 54. He’ll be younger than B.B. when he’s done.

    Looking broader than on the field, this is a home run.
     
  40. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,440
    I love me some BB as much as the next guy, but giving a billion dollars to a coach seems a tad hyperbolic to me.
     
  41. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,605
    Sure, they have a talented roster. But that roster just went 6-10 this season.

    Again, to DotB & DC’s points above, this could be a risk worth taking. Hell, it’s possible they project the season ticket and corporate interest alone makes it worth it.
     
  42. Gunfighter 09

    Gunfighter 09 wants to be caribou ken Staff Member Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,925

    Or the owner watched him work from extremely close proximity for four years. His being famous has nothing to do with it.
     
  43. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,020
    You don't think having a huge name and an incredibly charismatic figure attached to your franchise as you're moving to a new city provides any monetary value whatsoever?
     
  44. Gunfighter 09

    Gunfighter 09 wants to be caribou ken Staff Member Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,925
    No, because Mark Davis has been obsessing about getting Chucky back for a much longer period of time than he has had a need to sell PSLs in Vegas. He tried to get Gruden in 2012 and 2014, well before there was a need to sell Vegas PSLs. He also already has a Vegas PSL waiting list approaching 60K names long. Yes, having a winner helps sell PSLs, and Gruden helps that objective, but this is about Mark fixing one of his father's biggest errors more than anything else.
     
  45. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,964
    Sounds like he should have hiked the price. Can only sell PSLs once per seat.
     
  46. BroodsSexton

    BroodsSexton Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,363
    I can’t believe the thread title isn’t “Raiders: Bride of Chucky”

    @AlNipper49
     
  47. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    26,883
    And now we find out the contract is backloaded. For sensible tax reasons, but backloaded nonetheless:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/06/grudens-contract-is-backloaded/

    Which means Chucky is rather significantly below highest paid in the early years, assuming these estimates are accurate.
     
  48. mostman

    mostman Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,089
    Wait. What is Reid holding in this photo. It looks like a frozen football with a handle?
     
  49. Sox and Rocks

    Sox and Rocks Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,605
    How prescient was this shirt from ~ 25 years ago:

     
  50. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,313
    And nope, like they're reading here. On cue, Panthers sign Riverboat Ron to a 2 year extension
     

Share This Page