2018 Patriots: All-Purpose Roster Discussions Thread

Deathofthebambino

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I don’t think the Patriots of the last many years have ever been built in such a way that running back depth could even be a fatal flaw. There are guys to be found out there and if the line blocks well it shouldn’t really matter who the back is as long as he holds on to the ball and can pick up his blocks.

Of course, that is why I hated the Michel pick but I digress.
The inability to run out the clock almost cost them in week one. Burkhead tripping over his own blocker was all I needed to see to know that he's not the guy I want running to churn out first downs, and keep the clock moving to slam home a win in the fourth quarter. Shit, if James Develin doesn't catch a 10 yarder on the first series, and we go 3 and out, Houston gets the ball with 1:40 left and a timeout in their pocket.

Fortunately, Ryan Allen put the punt on the 1 yard line, and that was that, but this is what I'm talking about. The Pats have the ball with 3 minutes left, a 2 point lead, and the opponent has a couple timeouts. If we make 2-3 first downs, the game is over, if you keep the clock moving. I just don't see a way this team can do that without just having Tom step back and throw it (which unfortunately, isn't a really bad fallback option), and of course, with that approach, you run the risk of throwing incomplete passes and stopping the clock for the opponent. Clock killin Corey Dillon ain't walking through that door, but I think folks are going to very much not enjoy sweating out the fourth quarter of close games this season. It's been my concern since the day they cut Dion, it came around in week one, and I see it continuing throughout the season. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope even if I'm right, Tom figures out a way to keep the chains moving, but this is the part of the "running game" that worries me the most. Frankly, I don't care if they run the ball at all in the first three quarters. Let Tom go back and sling it all over the field, as far as I'm concerned, but when you need to keep the ball out of your opponents hands, and you need to keep the clock going, you need to run the ball, and that's something they've generally always been able to do when they had to do it. I don't know how they do it with this team, even if they get some of them healthy.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I actually feel like they’ve always been pretty bad at running out the clock in those situations. The holding-aided run by Lewis against Jacksonville last year is one of the few times I can recall them actually avoiding giving the ball back to the O for one last chance in an important one possession game. Dillon being an exception of course.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The inability to run out the clock almost cost them in week one. Burkhead tripping over his own blocker was all I needed to see to know that he's not the guy I want running to churn out first downs, and keep the clock moving to slam home a win in the fourth quarter. Shit, if James Develin doesn't catch a 10 yarder on the first series, and we go 3 and out, Houston gets the ball with 1:40 left and a timeout in their pocket.
Burkhead is in the concussion protocol, so that might partly explain why he was ineffective there. But I think Hill was supposed to be the guy in those situations. They are down to White and Barner as healthy RBs unless Michel is back.
 

SMU_Sox

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Burkhead is in the concussion protocol, so that might partly explain why he was ineffective there. But I think Hill was supposed to be the guy in those situations. They are down to White and Barner as healthy RBs unless Michel is back.
I was listening to LockedonPats and Mascho was talking about how he thinks the Patriots will use tempo to attack the Jax defense in part to prevent them from rotating their deep d-line. Michel is the perfect back for tempo because he’s a threat as a runner and receiving option (in theory). I hope he plays and somehow can make a difference even though he has been out since August 1st.
 

BigSoxFan

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I was listening to LockedonPats and Mascho was talking about how he thinks the Patriots will use tempo to attack the Jax defense in part to prevent them from rotating their deep d-line. Michel is the perfect back for tempo because he’s a threat as a runner and receiving option (in theory). I hope he plays and somehow can make a difference even though he has been out since August 1st.
This offense would really start to purr if Michel gets healthy and is legit. Pats could tempo teams to death with him, White, and Burkhead at RB and Edelman, Hogan, Dorsett At WR.

And then on play 8 when the opponent is a bit fatigued, they don’t stay in their lanes and Michel takes it to the house. At least that’s how it’s playing out in my head.
 

SMU_Sox

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Burkhead and Michel limited in practice on Friday. Cannon also limited. Hollister full participant. I expect a PS move if neither are available Sunday. Bad timing against the Jags.
 

schillzilla

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I saw Jeremy Kerley was released by the Bills. Maybe an option as a slot WR? Grasping at straws, but he had a little production a few years ago in that slot role.
 

AB in DC

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I was just coming here to say the same thing. Not sure if he has anything left in the tank, but I hope the Pats at least take a good look..
 

Cellar-Door

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I saw Jeremy Kerley was released by the Bills. Maybe an option as a slot WR? Grasping at straws, but he had a little production a few years ago in that slot role.
He's been toast for some time and there's no real reason to think he's better than anyone on the roster, and has far less upside than any of them
 

williams_482

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The inability to run out the clock almost cost them in week one. Burkhead tripping over his own blocker was all I needed to see to know that he's not the guy I want running to churn out first downs, and keep the clock moving to slam home a win in the fourth quarter. Shit, if James Develin doesn't catch a 10 yarder on the first series, and we go 3 and out, Houston gets the ball with 1:40 left and a timeout in their pocket.
Tom Brady has a long history of successfully icing wins despite a marginal or nonexistent running games. He also has had very good results when "forced" to throw 50+ times, partially because he's the fucking GOAT, and partially because the Patriots fast, screen-heavy passing game is more similar to "real" run game than most.

Frankly, the value of an elite running game (and especially a star running back) in those situations is massively overrated. In a one score game, by far the most important thing you need to do to ice the game is pick up first downs, and throwing the ball is a much more reliable way to pick up first downs than running it up the gut three times. This is doubly true when your quarterback is Tom Brady, almost regardless of who the running backs are.
 

Super Nomario

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He's been toast for some time and there's no real reason to think he's better than anyone on the roster, and has far less upside than any of them
Maybe, but he does have extensive punt return experience. Might be worth a look in that role until Edelman returns / another option emerges.
 

Cellar-Door

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Maybe, but he does have extensive punt return experience. Might be worth a look in that role until Edelman returns / another option emerges.
Maybe, but they just signed Barner who has been a much better punt returner in recent years than Kerley.
 

DJnVa

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So, what will Gordon cost and will the Pats pay it? Do they want to?
 

BigSoxFan

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Can’t see them trading value for Gordon. I think Gordon is effectively done. Someone will take a shot, it won’t work out, and that will be that.
 

scottyno

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Jordan Matthews is still in the area as well, he was working out with Edelman at Boston College yesterday, so I assume there might be some mutual interest there too if he's healthy.
 

dcmissle

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I refer you to Pitt thread on cap hit if he is traded — if that’s where this is headed. Not that he would ever be traded to NE in any case.
 

Harry Hooper

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Jordan Matthews is still in the area as well, he was working out with Edelman at Boston College yesterday, so I assume there might be some mutual interest there too if he's healthy.
Jordan Matthews just signed with the Eagles.

LINK
 

bakahump

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Eagles Receiving corp is in worse shape then the Pats. Think i heard the #1,3 and 4 are all out or limited for Wentz return.

Probably lucky they didnt try to snag Gordon.
 

axx

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But really does this mean Burkhead is worse than we think? All I can find is ‘strained neck’ and no info either way On return estimate.
That's sort of a big blow if they have to put Burkhead on IR. Although I guess he could come back at the end of the season.
 

McBride11

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That's sort of a big blow if they have to put Burkhead on IR. Although I guess he could come back at the end of the season.
Huge blow. Pure speculation but given 2 head injuries in 3 weeks I'm curious. Until the Pats practice and have injury reports so hard to say. As PP states could be cutting some other STer.
 

Harry Hooper

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Clearly it's time to punt on 2018. Send Brady and Gronk to the 49ers and get JimmyG back.
 

ehaz

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Is there anyway to fit in a rental LB into the salary cap? I know the answer is I can look this up, but I really don't understand the NFL salary cap restrictions in the same way I am familiar with MLB/NBA. Like, if the Seahawks fall out of contention and decide to put KJ Wright or Bobby Wagner on the block (wishful thinking)...
 

DeadlySplitter

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Burkhead to IR? is that a DTR or is that it, season over?

EDIT: Looks like a DTR situation. and Burkhead's injury happened on a kickoff return of all things, come on.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Is there anyway to fit in a rental LB into the salary cap? I know the answer is I can look this up, but I really don't understand the NFL salary cap restrictions in the same way I am familiar with MLB/NBA. Like, if the Seahawks fall out of contention and decide to put KJ Wright or Bobby Wagner on the block (wishful thinking)...
They couldn't fit Wagner in without some major moves, but they could fit Wright in if they cut Dwayne Allen (who has no dead money). Otherwise they only have $4.3M in open room, but can add $3.8M in space by letting Allen go.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Shaq Barrett would be interesting and I wonder if Denver would part with him for a decent pick. According to this piece the Broncos are unlikely to re-sign him after this year due to having Von and Chubb. What would be a fair pick for him if Denver wanted to begin stockpiling assets if their season goes south?
 

mcpickl

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They couldn't fit Wagner in without some major moves, but they could fit Wright in if they cut Dwayne Allen (who has no dead money). Otherwise they only have $4.3M in open room, but can add $3.8M in space by letting Allen go.
Dwayne Allen is a vested veteran. His salary for this season is guaranteed once he's on the opening day roster.
 

mcpickl

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Spotrac shows $3.38M of dead money for 2018, which makes sense as his salary would become guaranteed Week 1:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/dwayne-allen-9874/

They may be missing the $500K roster bonus in that, but not sure where that goes. I thought teams could spread out the cap hit of players cut after June 1st, so maybe the dead cap charge would be half that.
His roster bonus is a per game bonus of $31,250 for every game he's on the active roster. Non-guaranteed. If he was cut today it would only be on the cap as the $93,750 he's earned so far. His 3 million salary would all be on this year.
 

axx

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Remember someone has to get cut when Edelman comes back. I am kind of wondering who that might be.
 

Soxy

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I'm hoping it's Keionta Davis. I have no idea why Belichick keeps running him out there, unless he's just trying to add some fresh cuts to his film libraries showing how to not shed blocks or set the edge properly. I'm sure the dude works hard and does all the right things in practice but he appears to be physically incapable of doing the things that this defense is asking him to do.
 

j44thor

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I'm hoping it's Keionta Davis. I have no idea why Belichick keeps running him out there, unless he's just trying to add some fresh cuts to his film libraries showing how to not shed blocks or set the edge properly. I'm sure the dude works hard and does all the right things in practice but he appears to be physically incapable of doing the things that this defense is asking him to do.
Didn't he also concuss Flowers?