2018 NBA offseason thread

Sam Ray Not

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It kind of defeats the point of V&N to repeatedly use the construct "not sure if this belong in V&N but [X statement that pretty obviously belongs in V&N]."
I dunno, to me "stuff LeBron and Steph did or said in the 2018 offseason" fits pretty well under "2018 NBA offseason thread," so in the future I'll omit the V&N disclaimer. Thanks for the heads-up.

 
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ifmanis5

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NBA Schedule announced: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24342004/2018-19-nba-schedule-kawhi-leonard-toronto-raptors-visit-san-antonio-spurs-january

Notables:
  • Leonard will play in San Antonio on Jan. 3
  • All of James' games against the defending champion Golden State Warriors -- and 31 Lakers games overall -- will be on national television, including the Lakers' trip to Golden State on Christmas Day.
  • James' first game in Cleveland as a member of the Lakers will be on Nov. 21.
  • Other games of note: Paul George and the Thunder will face the Lakers on the road on Jan. 2
  • The Warriors and Rockets face off in Houston on Nov. 15 for the first time since their seven-game Western Conference Finals.
  • Kevin Durant and the Warriors travel to Oklahoma City to take on Durant's old Thunder team on March 16.
  • The game is one of 28 on national television for Golden State; the Rockets also have 28 nationally-televised games. The Thunder and Sixers each play on national television 27 times this season.
  • Gordon Hayward's first game back in Utah -- one of 27 national television appearances by Boston -- is scheduled for Nov. 9
  • Doncic and the Mavericks face Trae Young and the Hawks in Atlanta on Oct. 24.
  • In other schedule notes, the NBA said the total number of scheduled back-to-back games is an at all-time low for the fourth consecutive season. The league said teams will average 13.3 back-to-backs this season, down 31 percent since the 2014-15 season.
  • For the second straight season, no team will play four games in five nights.
 

Sam Ray Not

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At the risk of shilling for the Athletic (full disclosure: I like it a lot, but I'm still too cheap to subscribe) some hoops media news:


The linked piece on how an 18 y.o. college kid becomes Shams Charania is a pretty interesting read.

(And speaking of media-savvy, news-breaking phenoms: whatever happened to Corsi Combover?)
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I dunno, to me "stuff LeBron and Steph did or said in the 2018 offseason" fits pretty well under "2018 NBA offseason thread," so in the future I'll omit the V&N disclaimer. Thanks for the heads-up.

Too bad the rest of the tournament didn't go as well... Finished in dead last, 10 shots behind the next to last finisher.
 

ifmanis5

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KL update:
http://amicohoops.net/source-raptors-leonard-looks-remarkable-in-offseason-workouts/
Toronto Raptors small forward Kawhi Leonard has been killing it during his summer workouts and “looks remarkable,” a league source told Amico Hoops on Sunday.
Leonard is 100 percent and has no limitations in his workouts. The two-time Defensive Player of the Year only played in nine games this past season due to a lingering quadriceps injury and requested a trade from the San Antonio Spurs.
 

Sam Ray Not

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2x champion, 2x all-star David West retires the day after his 38th birthday.

Sneakily great player — few players in NBA history had the combo of passing, scoring efficiency and shotblocking he developed in his late career* — and, by all accounts, an even greater person. Spoke about political and social issues in an impressively deep and wise way, and was deeply admired by all his teammates and coaches. Steve Kerr called him "The President" — would that it were so. :-(

I never bought the Ethan Strauss hot take that he was initially signed as a "bulwark" for Draymond; his hoops skills alone were sufficient to make him worth signing, plus I never thought Draymond really required bulwarking. But I do think his character, toughness, and steady leadership were a sneaky-big part of what made the 2016-17 and 2017-18 Warriors teams so bulletproof.

*players in NBA history who have averaged at least 2 blocks and 5 assists per 36 minutes (min. 800 minutes played) with better than .570 true shooting:

1. David West 2017-18
2. David West 2016-17

That’s the complete list.

Edit: belated godspeed to Manu too, one of my all-time favorite players, and to me the best shooting guard since Jordan (with apologies to Kobe, Ray, Wade and Harden).
 

BigSoxFan

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2x champion, 2x all-star David West retires the day after his 38th birthday.

Sneakily great player — few players in NBA history had the combo of passing, scoring efficiency and shotblocking he developed in his late career* — and, by all accounts, an even greater person. Spoke about political and social issues in an impressively deep and wise way, and was deeply admired by all his teammates and coaches. Steve Kerr called him "The President" — would that it were so. :-(

I never bought the Ethan Strauss hot take that he was initially signed as a "bulwark" for Draymond; his hoops skills alone were sufficient to make him worth signing, plus I never thought Draymond really required bulwarking. But I do think his character, toughness, and steady leadership were a sneaky-big part of what made the 2016-17 and 2017-18 Warriors teams so bulletproof.

*players in NBA history who have averaged at least 2 blocks and 5 assists per 36 minutes (min. 800 minutes played) with better than .570 true shooting:

1. David West 2017-18
2. David West 2016-17

That’s the complete list.

Edit: belated godspeed to Manu too, one of my all-time favorite players, and to me the best shooting guard since Jordan (with apologies to Kobe, Ray, Wade and Harden).
This will be immature. This will be crude. But...

Fuck David West for signing with Indiana and helping to usher the end of the Big 3 era.
 

Caspir

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This will be immature. This will be crude. But...

Fuck David West for signing with Indiana and helping to usher the end of the Big 3 era.
Yup, fuck him. I hope he jams his toe on the end of his sofa and bed every fucking day.
 

ElUno20

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Also i wouldnt call him sneaky great anything. At his best he was pretty good but he can thank Chris Paul for all of that early success. Off the court and in the locker room is another story but on the court he wasnt great. Hell no.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Hmmm, I was very impressed with what I saw from Melton in summer league, so I'm not too sad to see him go, but yeah, seems like a pretty good trade for Houston. They get rid of the Anderson albatross and add an NBA-ready backup PG in Knight (and "NBA ready" is pretty key with the Rockets' window pretty much now-or-bust). Chriss doesn't really fit the now-or-bust model, but he might be occasionally useful as a smallball 5 vs. Green-Looney-Bell, in the event of a Ws-Rockets rematch.

From Phoenix's perspective ... I don't really get it at all, unless they're absolute gaga for Melton. Maybe Ariza and Ryno are BFFs?
 

Sam Ray Not

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He finally traded Anderson's contract. Daryl Morey is a Goddamn wizard.

Pretty sure Houston didn't "create space," since they're massively capped out either way, and Knight+Chriss combined only make $2M less than Anderson. But sure, if Ariza gets bought out, he could sign a minimum contract anywhere.

Still think Houston's roster is a notch below Boston's and Toronto's in the pecking order.
 

bowiac

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A couple Rockets fans I know are bummed about this move since they loved Melton so much. I don't really have much of a take on him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So is Chriss officially a bust?
He just turned 21 in July so still too young. He didn't show any improvement in year #2 tho, and that's usually a pretty big red flag.

Don't really get this move from the Suns perspective unless they are just really down on him, his motor or something.
 

Kliq

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Chriss seems like a bust to me. He was really, really raw coming out of Washington and hasn't made any strides in two years, getting decent playing time given his skill set. He strikes me as someone that was a really tantalizing prospect who lacked basketball experience and offered a sliver of hope that he could be the next Giannis; but so far the return has been a good athlete that has poor fundamentals and is clueless on both sides of the floor when it comes to working in a scheme.

Maybe he can turn it around catching lobs in Houston though.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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PHO reportedly not enamored by Chriss's character and poor work ethic. Also, he doesn't really fit in Koskokov's system and Anderson will probably end up starting for them, at least early in the season.

OTOH, Rockets definitely save some money (both this year - estimated to be $11M - and over the life of the contracts - Knight $30.2M and Chriss $4M versus Anderson's $41M) plus they get a guy that maybe they can turn around.

Interesting fact: Anderson reduced next season's guaranteed $ to $15.6M to match Knight's contract. https://hoopshype.com/storyline/ryan-anderson-trade/
 

Kliq

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Anderson's contract sucks; but I kind of like him on Phoenix. He can't play defense which limits his ability to be on the floor in crunch time; but for a team with so many young players, his ability to stretch the floor beyond the three point line should be beneficial to opening up space for Ayton inside. You couldn't really do that with Chriss, or Bender, or Len, or Chandler, or any of the other bigs they've trotted out.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Maybe he can turn it around catching lobs in Houston though.
Wonder how Chriss and Capela would work. Chriss would have to improve his 3 point shot a bit for them to play together one would think. Or it could just be one big lob city.
 

nighthob

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He just turned 21 in July so still too young. He didn't show any improvement in year #2 tho, and that's usually a pretty big red flag.
The hope, obviously, is that on a vet team where he needs to earn his time Chriss buckles down. And also that the vets help him adapt to the NBA game. He really needs to work on that shot of his. But on the other hand he's really athletic and can play modern D. His upside is likely first big off the bench, but then again they were getting nothing from Ryno really.

Melton's upside is better than what they're getting in Knight, but this is a win now move for a team whose backcourt ran out of gas when CP3 went down last year.
 

Sam Ray Not

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After lurking on the Dream Shake, I’m coming around to thinking it’s a pretty "meh" deal for Houston. One of their regulars put it as "the Suns got the two best players in the deal," which doesn’t seem totally far-fetched.

Anderson’s a more useful player and less of a potential clubhouse problem than Knight; and Melton, as much of question mark as he is, flashed more NBA potential in summer league than Chriss has in two NBA seasons. I felt like Melton was one of the Rockets’ only two unequivocally good moves of the offseason (along with the Ennis signing) so I have to dock them a few points for losing him. He looked physically ready for the NBA in Summer League — so much better than Jacob Evans it kinda depressed me — and was in the #15-20 range in some mocks, despite missing the 2017-18 season. He may be a consistent three-ball away from being a 20-25 mpg backup combo guard for a good team. Rozier-esque, maybe? No idea how he slid all the way to #46.

You could say Morey did well to realize the value of that smart/lucky pick at #46 by being able to flip it to help move the Anderson albatross. But you could also say he parted with the guy with the highest upside in the deal.

Where I think it’s a clearer win for Houston is in the flexibility it provides. Anderson’s two years / $40M was deemed nearly unmovable; now Morey shaves $12M off that deal and gets a younger, potentially more tradable asset down the road. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is just a precursor to a deal (after the three-month moratorium is up) for an actual NBA player who doesn’t suck.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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People love to wish on youth—Melton in this case, Chriss post-draft (several here wanted him instead of Jaylen). But sitting here today, Knight is the only good/really useful player in this deal. PHO might as well bet on Melton’s upside and hope Anderson can be fipped, but feels like a good addition for Houston to me so long as Knight relatively healthy....typically the question for Brandon Knight.
 

Sam Ray Not

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How is Knight better or more useful than Anderson, exactly? He rated as one of the worst regular players in the NBA when healthy (horrific defense + inefficient offense) and is coming off a torn ACL. Anderson is coming off a down season and is obviously not worth anywhere near $20M given his defensive ineptitude, but I’d argue he’s more useful in today’s NBA as a backup 15-20 mpg stretch 4-5 than Knight is as a backup 15-20 mpg combo guard.

Career per 36
Anderson 17.4 pts on .563 ts / 7.3 reb
Knight 17.5 pts on .520 ts / 4.9 ast
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Houston shed a virtually unmovable contract. Even if Melton turns out to be a legitimate NBA rotation player, or more, it isn't likely to be during Houston's window.

Morey didn't trade for Chriss or Knight here. He traded for flexibility. That alone is hugely valuable for a team that is maybe one player away from being a true contender.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Morey didn't trade for Chriss or Knight here. He traded for flexibility. That alone is hugely valuable for a team that is maybe one player away from being a true contender.
Basically agreed, although we're talking a pretty moderate increase in flexibility. The Rockets are capped out for all eternity either way, and Knight's 2/$30M contract is also a bit of an albatross. Morey's basically banking on Knight being slightly more movable down the road than Anderson, which is probably a decent bet, so long as he gets and stays healthy.
 

Big John

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I don't know what is so terrible about Anderson's contract. He has this year and next, same as Knight. It's 2 years at $20M per year for a healthy player versus 2 years at $15M per year for a player coming off a torn ACL.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't know what is so terrible about Anderson's contract. He has this year and next, same as Knight. It's 2 years at $20M per year for a healthy player versus 2 years at $15M per year for a player coming off a torn ACL.
It's not that Anderson's contract is per se horrible but it's not great and it's a lot worse given the repeater tax.

From what I'm seeing, Morey saved HOU some $11M this year in tax and salary and, assuming they don't exercise Chriss's player option, something like $5.9M in salary next year. So that's almost $17M not including luxury tax payments for next year.

I'm also seeing someone suggesting that Morey could flip Knight for an expiring and stretch that contract and end up being below the luxury tax line.

Anderson couldn't get off HOU's bench. At the very least, Morey made his bosses (the owners) very happy and all it costs was a 2nd round flyer.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It's not that Anderson's contract is per se horrible but it's not great and it's a lot worse given the repeater tax.

From what I'm seeing, Morey saved HOU some $11M this year in tax and salary and, assuming they don't exercise Chriss's player option, something like $5.9M in salary next year. So that's almost $17M not including luxury tax payments for next year.

I'm also seeing someone suggesting that Morey could flip Knight for an expiring and stretch that contract and end up being below the luxury tax line.

Anderson couldn't get off HOU's bench. At the very least, Morey made his bosses (the owners) very happy and all it costs was a 2nd round flyer.
Yeah, we know Houston doesn’t think Anderson can contribute because he didn’t, and even after losing guys they dumped him.

Can Knight? Likely about health but more likely than Anderson
 

Sam Ray Not

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Yeah, we know Houston doesn’t think Anderson can contribute because he didn’t, and even after losing guys they dumped him.

Can Knight? Likely about health but more likely than Anderson
I don't think we can assume they don't think Ryno can contribute. He has contributed some solidly positive play them over the last two years (particularly 2016-17, when he put up 13.6 ppg on .583 true shooting in 29.4 mpg). Safer to assume they felt his contract was too burdensome, and wanted better flexibility in the event a more useful player came available.

Also important to note that they acquired Melo, who in his current sluggish state is a substantially similar player to Anderson (though at equal $$$ I'd rather have Anderson than Melo, personally).
 
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Big John

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The deal makes perfect sense for Houston. They need the veteran backup for CP3. And if Knight isn't 100% in November, the Rockets can wait, just like the Warriors will wait for Cousins.

But it's not as though Phoenix got hosed. Knight's contract was difficult to move as well, and Melton has upside.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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From a Pheonix sports radio guy, not sure how reliable/connected he is, but:

John Gambadoro

✔@Gambo987

Suns have definitely been trying to trade for a front tier point guard - Lillard, Walker, Rozier - but to no avail. Situation at point guard now is not ideal and Phoenix will have to make a trade but Milwaukee pick that they own is not that valuable.
3:52 PM - Aug 31, 2018
 

snowmanny

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Rozier for a draft day option to either take the Bucks pick or swap the Kings/Sixers pick for the Phoenix pick?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sacramento could use Deng though the version that existed five years ago versus the current one. I wouldn't be surprised to see the T-Wolves and even the Rockets to kick his tires.
 

Jimbodandy

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Luol Deng is toast. I can't imagine a scenario where he offers anyone anything other than end of the bench garbage minutes
And who would offer more than the minimum, and why would he get out of bed for it? He has to climb over piles of money to get to the front door of his house. Him playing in the NBA next year would be a bigger surprise than Marcus Smart leading the league in 3pt %.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don't think we can assume they don't think Ryno can contribute. He has contributed some solidly positive play them over the last two years (particularly 2016-17, when he put up 13.6 ppg on .583 true shooting in 29.4 mpg). Safer to assume they felt his contract was too burdensome, and wanted better flexibility in the event a more useful player came available.

Also important to note that they acquired Melo, who in his current sluggish state is a substantially similar player to Anderson (though at equal $$$ I'd rather have Anderson than Melo, personally).
On the contrary, I literally think it's impossible to make the case the Rockets think he can contribute. If you're arguing that some other team might think so, sure...that's possible. But as to Houston I think we know for sure they don't think he can contribute and while they surely wanted to dump his contract, that's primarily because they didn't want to have to play him.

1. He played 95 total minutes in 11 playoff games, missing 6 comletely. He only played 29 total minutes in a 7 game series last year. That means, without any quesion they did not think he could contribute last year as he was used essentially just in garbage time. I hope you do not dispute this point---if so, it's hopeless.
2. This offseason, the Rockets lost two wings (Ariza and PJ Tucker) who combined played 62 minutes a game. They were so sure Anderson couldn't contribute in those minutes that they a) signed the corpse of Carmelo and b) signed the even colder corpse of Joe Johnson rather than plan to play Anderson more. That's a pretty sure sign they don't think he can play.
3. Then, they traded Anderson

How exactly do you look at that and say there's even a mere scintilla of doubt about whether the Rockets thought Anderson could contribute?
 

Sox Puppet

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Interesting fact: Anderson reduced next season's guaranteed $ to $15.6M to match Knight's contract. https://hoopshype.com/storyline/ryan-anderson-trade/
I kind of don't get this. Maybe someone can explain the concept of buyouts to me?

Woj says "For Ryan Anderson, there isn’t a real financial risk adjusting his contract. Things can go well with Suns and they’ll fully guarantee his $21M. If not, he enters a free agent market with $15.6M in his pocket, significant cap space and chance to sign a new deal for multiple years." If the Suns decide to change course and buy him out for $15.6M, doesn't that mean another team need offer him only the minimum? Or is he just a total free agent at that point and can sign for "market value" on top of the $15.6M? Say the market really sees him as a $10M player (which I doubt), does that mean he would get the $15.6M from the Suns AND the added $10M someone else was willing to pay him? If this is how it works, it seems like he's gambling on himself being worth at least ($21-15.6) = $5.4M, and even that seems like a stretch for him.

Same with the Deng buyout, where he leaves $7.5M on the table in exchange for a chance to actually play somewhere (since the Lakers weren't going to play him). I don't get this either. First, who would sign him even at $7.5M? Second, why would he agree to a buyout at all when he could just sit patiently on the bench and collect his full paycheck to do nothing?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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To the first question on Anderson, yes, he’s a free agent. It not like waivers where he can get grabbed for the minimum.

To the Dent question, maybe, I dunno, he actually wants to play? He can go chase rings elsewhere for a little less money rather than sulk and ride the pine on a team that won’t contend.
 

Sam Ray Not

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On the contrary, I literally think it's impossible to make the case the Rockets think he can contribute. If you're arguing that some other team might think so, sure...that's possible. But as to Houston I think we know for sure they don't think he can contribute and while they surely wanted to dump his contract, that's primarily because they didn't want to have to play him.

1. He played 95 total minutes in 11 playoff games, missing 6 comletely. He only played 29 total minutes in a 7 game series last year. That means, without any quesion they did not think he could contribute last year as he was used essentially just in garbage time. I hope you do not dispute this point---if so, it's hopeless.
2. This offseason, the Rockets lost two wings (Ariza and PJ Tucker) who combined played 62 minutes a game. They were so sure Anderson couldn't contribute in those minutes that they a) signed the corpse of Carmelo and b) signed the even colder corpse of Joe Johnson rather than plan to play Anderson more. That's a pretty sure sign they don't think he can play.
3. Then, they traded Anderson

How exactly do you look at that and say there's even a mere scintilla of doubt about whether the Rockets thought Anderson could contribute?
Seems like we may have different definitions of "contribute." To me, playing 1725 minutes (7th most on the team, right behind CP3 and ahead of Mbah a Moute) and putting up 13 pts / 7 reb per 36 on .592 true shooting is contributing — to a 65-win regular season that earned them the #1 seed and home court throughout the playoffs. The fact that d'Antoni ran an ultra-conservative "seven players or less" rotation against the Warriors (one that may have contributed to the CP3 injury and/or the dead-legged 0-27 spell from 3 in Game 7) doesn't totally negate Anderson's regular season contributions. Most teams cut down to a 7-8-man core rotation in the playoffs, eliminating all but the best and least exploitable players, but it's still very useful to have 12-13 playable guys throughout the season to keep everyone rested and healthy while maximizing wins and seeding position.

Obviously Morey and co. didn't see Anderson as a replacement for LMaM or Ariza (fwiw, they didn't lose Tucker). He's a backup stretch 4-5, not a wing. But he's still pretty young (30), and they might well have seen him as a "replacement" for his own ~1500 regular season minutes and 100-200 playoff minutes, had they not been able to grab Melo to provide roughly similar production (on probably similar unplayability vs. GS) on a cheap vet min pricetag, saving themselves a big luxury hit in the process.

Anyway, my main quibble was with your claim that "Knight is the only good/really useful player in this deal." Nothing about Knight's recent production in the NBA is remotely good (per Pelton, "his minus-5.3 rating in ESPN's real plus-minus [in 2016-17] was fifth-worst among all rated players"); and for him to be more useful than Anderson, we'd have to see him play effectively enough behind CP3, Harden, Gordon and MCW to get more than the 1725 minutes + 150 playoff minutes Anderson got last year. That's possible — I'd guess they're pencilling him ahead of MCW, if his iffy knee is good to go — but I don't think we can assume it. Personally, I'd guess he's just as likely to be shipped somewhere else before the playoffs as he is to be a regular playoff rotation player for them.
 
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