2018 NBA Game Thread

BigSoxFan

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57 points and he was 9-22 from inside the arc. He got most of his points via the three where he was 9-17 and hitting all 12 of his FTA. He also had eight dimes.

The counter is that the Rockets lost to Memphis. I think the games during this stretch are largely just playing out the string so I don't hold it against them but I can see the Harden critics pointing to the result as a mark against him.
I can’t. He’s doing MVP things for a likely 3 seed. They can start the engraving.
 

soxhop411

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James fucking Harden is the MVP. He is just unreal.
Wow, didn't see it, but just hate-glancing at the boxscore, it looked totally insane. 57 points on 39 fga (9-17 from 3, 12-12 ft), and unofficially it seemed like 30 of them came in the last 6 minutes of regulation and OT.

Grizz pull it out on a last second FT in OT by Valanciunas (cosmic justic for Harden tying it with three FTs at the buzzer at the end of regulation), but still.

I'm actually pretty okay with Harden as MVP over Giannis now, since my one caveat in the case for Giannis was if the Bucks tailed off while the Rockets closed strong, which has basically happened. Meanwhile, George and the Thunder have really tailed off of late, to the point where I might even consider Jokic or Embiid (or even Curry?) for #3 if OKC doesn't finish in the top half of the bracket.
I can’t. He’s doing MVP things for a likely 3 seed. They can start the engraving.

That number for Wilt Chamberlain still boggles my mind.

It’s like he was playing against 5th graders.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Harden also just passed 2016-17 Curry for second most threes in a season. Updated list...

1. 402 Curry, 2015-16
2. 325 Harden, 2018-19
3. 324 Curry, 2016-17
4. 303 Curry, 2018-19
5. 286 Curry, 2014-15
6. 276 Thompson, 2015-16
7. 272 Curry, 2012-13
8. 269 Allen, 2005-06
9. 268 Thompson, 2016-17
10. 267 Scott, 1995-96
 

Apisith

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Yo the 4th quarter and OT was unreal. I’m still hyped from him pouring in 10 points in OT, 8 in the last 44 seconds. He hit a 3, then another, then stole the ball and scored again to tie it up all in the space of 28 seconds.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I feel like Pop/Buford haven't gotten enough crap for "throwing in" Danny Green in that Kawhi deal (currently the #2 ranked SG in the league by RPM). The Raps would be significantly less scary without him, and the Spurs would be significantly scarier with him, imo. Gotta think Kawhi was enough of a prize on his own; was there really no other salary ballast the Spurs could have thrown in instead?
 
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Sam Ray Not

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Heck, forget "top half the bracket" — if OKC can't erase this 14 point deficit v. TOR in the 4th quarter, they'll be in a flat-footed tie with the Clippers and Spurs for the #8 seed (i.e. #6-8 seed).
 

BigSoxFan

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I feel like Pop/Buford haven't gotten enough crap for "throwing in" Danny Green in that Kawhi deal (currently the #2 ranked SG in the league by RPM). The Raps would be significantly less scary without him, and the Spurs would be significantly scarier with him, imo. Gotta think Kawhi was enough of a prize on his own; was there really no other salary ballast the Spurs could have thrown in instead?
Since I doubt Toronto takes Mills, it basically was a decision between Rudy Gay and Danny Green. While Gay has played well, I definitely take the latter.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Nikola Mirotic is out two to four weeks with slightly fractured left thumb. That puts him back for the playoffs but its going to prevent him from further gelling in the Bucks system. I still think the East sees one of Milwaukee, Toronto or, perhaps, Philadelphia advance to the finals but the Bucks injury bug is definitely opening things up a bit.
 

cheech13

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I feel like Pop/Buford haven't gotten enough crap for "throwing in" Danny Green in that Kawhi deal (currently the #2 ranked SG in the league by RPM). The Raps would be significantly less scary without him, and the Spurs would be significantly scarier with him, imo. Gotta think Kawhi was enough of a prize on his own; was there really no other salary ballast the Spurs could have thrown in instead?
It wasn't just a throw-in, it was even worse: Zach Lowe reported at the time that the Spurs were actively looking to get out from under his contract and were willing to take back less in a Kawhi deal if the other team took on his remaining salary.
 

Sam Ray Not

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DeMarcus Cousins on the season (per 36 minutes, 568 total minutes)

22.0 pts on .562 ts
11.2 reb
5.1 ast (3.2 tov)
1.8 stl
2.2 blk (5.2 pf)

Players in NBA history who have averaged 20 pts / 10 reb / 5 ast / 2 blk per 36 in at least 500 total minutes:

Bill Walton, POR 1977-78
DeMarcus Cousins, GSW 2018-19

That’s the complete list. Not horrible for a dude coming off a blown Achilles.
 

Kliq

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Per 36 is such an overused stat for people who are not going to play 36 minutes per game. Obviously everyone who doesn't play 36 minutes is going to have better counting stats, because they are going to play more. I feel the same way with per 40 minutes becoming a standard stat used to evaluate college players.

Cousins can still get buckets but from what I've seen, he is a huge liability to have on defense right now. The Celtics played him right off the floor by attacking him on defense and I think in a playoff series that is going to exploited a lot. He's a fun wrinkle to have in the right matchup, but I don't know if he will be the game changer people thought he could be when he first signed with GS.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Per 36 is such an overused stat for people who are not going to play 36 minutes per game.
Not sure about "overused" but I agree that it has flaws. I like at as an apples-to-apples system for guys for guys who play somewhere around 36 minutes; and history has shown that by and large part-time players tend to follow the "Millsap Doctrine" when given expanded/starter's minutes (Paul Millsap, for example, lol). But yeah, you gotta include a caveat for guys like Boogie who would tend to get into foul trouble, get fatigued, and/or and pose defensive liabilities for his team as a true 36 mpg player. JaVale McGee is probably a more extreme example of this than Boogie.

All that said, if it were that easy to put up 20-10-5-2 per 36, you'd think there would be someone in NBA history who had done it other than Walton and Cousins.

I don't know if he will be the game changer people thought he could be when he first signed with GS.
Hmm, from what I recall there were at least as many people who thought he'd be some combo of (a) physically broken post-Achilles; (b) an abrasive personality who would wreck the team's lovely clubhouse chemistry; and/or (c) a ball-dominant, post-up, defensively inept player who wouldn't fit Kerr-ball on either end of the floor. He's answered a lot of those concerns already, though obviously he's mixed in some awful games too (v. Boston, e.g.)

How he'll do in the playoffs remain to be seen. My general sense just matchup-wise is that he'll be a solid asset for 15-25 mpg against all the Western teams except possibly Houston; and even against them I think people tend to make a lot of his shortcomings as a pick-and-roll defender (which are legit) while downplaying his ability to BBQ-chicken skinny guys like Clint Capela, creating some easy offense (off deep post-ups, sweet passes to open shooters and cutters off split-cut actions, e.g.) that they lacked in last year's WCF. We saw some signs of that in the last GS-HOU game, though I get the sense both Mike D and Kerr have been leaving some bullets in the holster in their regular season matchups.

A GS-HOU matchup could also easily not materialize, in which case I think Boogie matches up pretty well against the six other Western teams, all of whom run at least 25-30 mpg of a more traditional "plodding" center (Jokic, Nurkic, Adams, Gobert, Aldridge, Zubac/Harrell, Aldridge/Poetl). Against Toronto, Milwaukee, or Boston in the finals, it could get trickier again. Should be fun to watch in any case, not least as a test of where the league stands with traditional centers.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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It's completely arbitrary though. Kareem averaged 20/10/5/2 over the course of 2 seasons. He just played more than 36 minutes.

In 75/76 he averaged 27.7 points, 16.9 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 4.1 blocks, 1.5 steals.
In 78/79, 23.8, 12.8, 5.4, 4.0, 1.0.

In 03/04, Garnett averaged 24.2 points, 13.9 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 2.2 blocks, 1.5 steals in 39.4 minutes.

In 17/18, Cousins was one of only 3 players to ever average 20 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.5 blocks over the course of the season joining both KG (twice) and Kareem (twice). Giannis is at 1.4 blocks this year, he could be the 4th.

20/10/5 has only been done 15 times in NBA history by 7 different players.
Bird 5 times
KG 3 times
Westbrook 2 times
Kareem 2 times
Barkley 1 time
Webber 1 time
Cousins 1 time

After this year, it will go up to 18 and 9.
Westbrook, Jokic and Giannis.
 

Kliq

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A GS-HOU matchup could also easily not materialize, in which case I think Boogie matches up pretty well against the six other Western teams, all of whom run at least 25-30 mpg of a more traditional "plodding" center (Jokic, Nurkic, Adams, Gobert, Aldridge, Zubac/Harrell, Aldridge/Poetl). Against Toronto, Milwaukee, or Boston in the finals, it could get trickier again. Should be fun to watch in any case, not least as a test of where the league stands with traditional centers.
Simply having a more plodding center on the floor doesn't mean he won't be a liability. Teams are smart in how they attack limited defensive players by forcing switches on pick and rolls and getting the desired mismatch. Boston didn't roll over GS because Al Horford was blowing by Boogie at every chance he got, they did it by switching Boogie onto smaller players. So yeah, Gobert isn't that fleet of foot but if he sets a screen and Boogie has to switch onto Donovan Mitchell, that could be a problem.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Jokic may be "plodding" but he's definitely not traditional. he's nothing like those other guys on the list.
 

Sam Ray Not

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It's completely arbitrary though.
Not sure what you mean, by "it" here — the 20-10-5 or the 36 minutes? Fwiw, I agree that they're both completely arbitrary. It was just a silly factoid; obviously it's much more descriptive to see the full per game numbers (including minutes per game). As your numbers suggest, Cousins is in rare company no matter how you slice it.

On Kliq's P&R point: I agree that any team (i.e. not just Houston) is capable of exploiting Boogie on P&R switches. But I think Houston is unique among the eight Western teams in that (a) with their two star ballhandlers, they run P&R better than and more relentlessly the others, and (b) they have a smaller, quicker starting C than the others.

Generally, I think Boogie brings pretty much the same set of strengths and weaknesses as Jokic.
 

lovegtm

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Generally, I think Boogie brings pretty much the same set of strengths and weaknesses as Jokic.
This is a true statement, in the sense that a Ferrari brings pretty much the same set of strengths and weaknesses as a Mustang. The degree of the strengths and weaknesses matters.

Your team is amazingly good and the overwhelming favorites to win its 3rd straight title. Not sure why it matters so much to you to prove that one of its weaker links is actually teh awesomez.
 

the moops

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All that said, if it were that easy to put up 20-10-5-2 per 36, you'd think there would be someone in NBA history who had done it other than Walton and Cousins.
Not really. Guys that are good enough to put those #s up are generally playing a lot more minutes - because well, they are good. In general, teams don't have the luxury of playing guys as good as Cousins only 25 minutes a game. GSW does have that luxury
 

Sam Ray Not

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This is a true statement, in the sense that a Ferrari brings pretty much the same set of strengths and weaknesses as a Mustang. The degree of the strengths and weaknesses matters.
Hmm, rooting interests notwithstanding, is it that controversial to say Cousins when healthy is roughly the same caliber of player as Jokic? He has been name-checked pretty frequently as the best big man in the NBA (by LeBron, e.g.) By RPM, Jokic currently rates as the top C in the NBA at +6.23; at his peak in 2015 Cousins rated as ... the top C in the NBA at +6.13.

Jokic is the more elite passer; Cousins is the better rim defender, I think largely due to a much bigger wingspan / standing reach (way more blocks, though more fouls to go along with them). Both are loads that than can overwhelm smaller guys on the block, while also being able to step out to three and knock down shots, set crushing screens to free up shooters, and make plays off the dribble with their combo of high hoops IQ, skill, and shockingly good hands and feet for their size. And both are pretty plodding on D. I see them as way more similar than different, both in style and degree.

You could argue that Cousins is not the player he was pre-injury, which is fair. I'd just note that (a) his numbers aren't that far off where they were; (b) he's looking better by the week; (c) even healthy he was not a freak athlete, and even in his diminished state does not look demonstrably less explosive or athletic than Nikola Jokic.

In an alt universe where Jokic had blown his Achilles and was now plying his wares for 15-25 mpg with the Warriors, and healthy Boogie was the featured superstar for Mike Malone and his young crew (assuming no hard feelings from their time together in Sactown, lol), I don't think it's crazy to think they'd both be doing about what they're doing now.

In general, teams don't have the luxury of playing guys as good as Cousins only 25 minutes a game. GSW does have that luxury
True. But as Bosox79 notes, Boogie has put up those numbers even when playing ~36 mpg.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Harden with 37 at the end of the half in 18 minutes. 10/17 fg, 5/6 3p, 12/14 ft

Rockets up 62-47 so he may have a short night.
 

Apisith

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Harden with 4 minutes to go in the 4th:
Made 3pt
Made 3pt
Made 3pt
Miss 2pt, offensive rebound, made 2pt
Offensive rebound, made 2pt

Turned a 6 point deficit into a 5pt lead. Too fucking awesome.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Harden is currently the best offensive player in the NBA given his scoring versatility. I understand disliking his game even if I don't agree. However its undeniable that we are witnessing greatness from him this season.
 

Kliq

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Harden is currently the best offensive player in the NBA given his scoring versatility. I understand disliking his game even if I don't agree. However its undeniable that we are witnessing greatness from him this season.
I think Harden might be the best guard since MJ. Kobe did it for longer, and has the rings, but he never had a regular season like this. I looked at their respective 35 PPG seasons and Harden was more efficient and also was a much better passer and playmaker for his teammates (albeit, he isn't playing with Smush Parker). Harden's team is also a lot better. He hasn't made the finals yet, but I would probably say he is the greatest regular season guard since MJ.

Curry is also in the conversation and is a more efficient scorer, but he never has quite had to carry the load that Harden has. Part of what has made Harden so impressive is that he has had to score so much, and he has been able to do it while also winning games.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think Harden might be the best guard since MJ. Kobe did it for longer, and has the rings, but he never had a regular season like this. I looked at their respective 35 PPG seasons and Harden was more efficient and also was a much better passer and playmaker for his teammates (albeit, he isn't playing with Smush Parker). Harden's team is also a lot better. He hasn't made the finals yet, but I would probably say he is the greatest regular season guard since MJ.

Curry is also in the conversation and is a more efficient scorer, but he never has quite had to carry the load that Harden has. Part of what has made Harden so impressive is that he has had to score so much, and he has been able to do it while also winning games.
Its an interesting contrast though I really think its difficult to compare Jordan to the current crop of players including Harden and Curry. I am old so I saw Jordan play and I struggle to imagine his ceiling with the offense friendly rules of today combined with his utter disregard for anyone competing against him (or playing along side him but not falling into line).

That said - and I know you respect but don't love Curry - I think Curry is also uniquely skilled for a guard and is one of the top five players I've seen play in my life given his sustained excellence and how, without even passing, he makes his teammates better. Both he and Harden create huge spacing advantages for their teams but Curry's distinct advantage in reliably hitting not just from beyond the arc but ~10 feet behind bends the defense even more, opening up a lot of floor for his teammates to move around and get good looks (e.g. Klay) .

Harden does get more assists than Curry but I would add that a big part of James scoring comes from FTAs (almost 3X Curry this season) a decent portion of his production is predicated on his ability to convert moves into fouls and fouls into points. Curry is a much more "conventional" player.

In the end, were I forced to choose between the two, I would go with Curry but its pretty damn close. The one thing that argues against Harden is that his oft mentioned skill at drawing fouls can work against him - we've seen instances where he comes up small when the refs swallow their whistles or get him for his physical style of play. Curry has off nights too but its more a function of whether his shot is falling or not - something every great NBA player contends with fairly regularly.
 

ElUno20

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Can Harden get an extra few points added to his season total for his answer on load management?
 

Sam Ray Not

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In a general sense, I'd put Harden a slight step above Kobe, a slight step below Curry, and well below MJ, but I think he needs to show out in the playoffs more than he has to really be in the all-time conversation with Kobe or Curry, let alone Jordan. His last four playoffs have consisted of three eliminations by Curry's Warriors, plus one of the more epic no-shows in recent memory in a blowout Game 6 elimination to the Kawhi-less, Parker-less Spurs. That game notwithstanding, Harden's overall playoff numbers have been good, but not quite peak Harden. Since joining Houston in 2012-13, he's gone 31-31 in the playoffs (5-6 in playoff series) and has never made it out of the West; Curry in the same timeframe has gone 72-30, 16-3 in playoff series, with four WC championships and three titles.

The Rockets' most dramatic victory in the Harden era is still probably their 2015 defeat of the Clippers from down 3-1 — a comeback that hinged on an insane 49-18 rally at the end of Game 6 in LA that occurred mostly with Harden on the bench. (Harden was -20 in that game, Corey Brewer +32, lol). That season ended for the Rockets in a Game 5 v. GS in which Harden had 14 points and 12 turnovers. What is Harden's greatest playoff moment? That's a real question, not rhetorical. I'm sure he's had a ton; I just can't think of one that really stands out.

One can definitely point to Harden's lack of elite teammates, but as DeJesus notes, the true greats make their teammates better. And of course, GOAT as he was, Jordan never won a title till he teamed with Pippen. (And great as he was, if you take away all six of his rings, I suspect people are talking about him more in the category of Jerry West or Oscar Robertson than as the GOAT). Ditto Kobe with Shaq/Gasol, Steph with Klay/KD, etc. Fairly or unfairly, I don't think Harden's in the conversation with Curry or Kobe in any kind of historical ranking unless and until he picks up a ring or two.

As far as the Harden "I'm a hooper" quote above: that's what most NBA superstars say, and it's clearly true in the case of the Beard. He's a fearless, tireless baller. The question (for D'Antoni and others) is whether that admirable eagerness to go balls-out in every regular season game has had anything to do with some of his disappointments in April and May. Could have nothing to do with it, but if I'm D'Antoni I'd at least consider following the lead of Popovich (one of the more diligent late-season "load managers" of his players, with five rings to show for it) and dialing down his minutes a bit down the stretch, ideally with a rest game or two.

Anyway, blah, blah. As noted above, with the Rockets now firmly locked in the top half the west, and Harden ratcheting up his play to another level of insanity, I'm fine with him as MVP over Giannis.
 
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Apisith

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I generally agree with you. He needs to win to be part of that discussion. But, I think he is extremely unfortunate to come up against the best team ever when he’s in his prime. Them’s the breaks though. He still has to win.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Mavs kicking the snot out of the Dubs
No Curry, no Livingston and no Bogut (all resting on the front end of a B2B). March is pretty much a war of attrition, load management and guys gutting out the balance of the season. IMHO, these results aren't indicative of anything other than the Warriors are more tired than the Mavs.
 

BigSoxFan

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No Curry, no Livingston and no Bogut (all resting on the front end of a B2B). March is pretty much a war of attrition, load management and guys gutting out the balance of the season. IMHO, these results aren't indicative of anything other than the Warriors are more tired than the Mavs.
I’m not drawing any conclusions but a team with Durant, Thompson, Green, and Cousins has plenty of talent.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I’m not drawing any conclusions but a team with Durant, Thompson, Green, and Cousins has plenty of talent.
I’ll take any Dallas win at this point, with their victory and the Griz dropping one to the T-Wolves today, those two teams are tied for the 6th spot in the lottery.

Side note, KAT with 33 and 23 boards tonight. Is he 3rd team All-NBA center, after Embiid and Jokic?
 

BigSoxFan

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I’ll take any Dallas win at this point, with their victory and the Griz dropping one to the T-Wolves today, those two teams are tied for the 6th spot in the lottery.

Side note, KAT with 33 and 23 boards tonight. Is he 3rd team All-NBA center, after Embiid and Jokic?
Yup. It was helpful. And they have 2 games left against each other...
 

HowBoutDemSox

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76ers fall in Atlanta on a Trae Young buzzer beater. They're up 3 and 4 games respectively on the Pacers and Celtics, so they've probably got the 3 seed locked up anyways, but feels a little better to see the other comparables in the east fall as well.