Lakers vs. Kings should be fun, another Fox/Ball matchup and either the Kings lose, which is good for the pick, or the Lakers lose, which is good for the moral balance of the universe.
Lakers held SAC to 86 points. SAC was averaging 118. Didn't see the game so it could be just a fluke but LAL's defense is worth watching. Note that apparently smoke was coming into arena so just might be circumstances.
Curious as to what you see from the Lakers defense that is worth watching? 17th in DefRat which is due in part by having 3rd fastest Pace but last night was first game they gave up less than 110. In 5 of their other 11 games they have given up 121+. Sacramento was on backend of a B2B while being their 3rd game in 4 nights while shooting like it. When Bjelica, Hield, and Bogdanovich shoot 5-29 (1-10 from three) the Kings are likely going to lose every time.
I haven't looked at any of their other defensive metrics but my eyes tell me that LeBron isn't putting forth much effort on this side of the floor.
Watched a decent amount of that game and the King’s were just missing shots, Fox was doing a good job setting people up, but everyone was pretty brutal putting it in the basket, don’t think the Lakers defense was really bothering them too much of note other than maybe McGee and Chandler giving Cauley-Stein some trouble in the paint.
As a note to the above question about the smoke......LeBron has said that the smoke did have a significant affect on him. I'm assuming it did on others as well so thrown that into the challenges the Kings offense was facing aside from the scheduling and anemic 3-point shooting by its best shooters.
I don't know what the issue is with players citing the smoke but I can tell you that here in the Bay Area - which is ~ 180 miles from the fires north of Sacramento, the air quality is absolutely horrible. Its well above the level at which physical activity is deemed safe and there are a lot of people wearing masks and many outdoors events have been canceled. And it smells smoky, even indoors. I have no problem believing the players were affected up in Sacramento.
I think he was just poking fun at the coach saying smoke is heavy and falls instead of rises.
Thank you. I am a numbskull (but you all knew that). Plus, SRN is going to say that I am defending Joerger for some strange reason!I think he was just poking fun at the coach saying smoke is heavy and falls instead of rises.
+1I think he was just poking fun at the coach saying smoke is heavy and falls instead of rises.
To paraphrase Rev, a chimney is like the fifth thing a kid learns to draw in their lives. You’d think someone would know which way smoke goes.
Santa doesn’t crawl up into your home from the depths of hell.
Didn't see the game so I've not seen anything. Just thought it - and the smoke - were notable.
The Knicks first 14 possessions tonight at MSG vs Orlando covering 5 minutes of play.
0-9 FGA
5 TO
0 Points
Imagine being a Jets/Knicks fan who decided to spend their Sunday attending both of these games? There are some who surely did this too.
0-9 FGA
5 TO
0 Points
Imagine being a Jets/Knicks fan who decided to spend their Sunday attending both of these games? There are some who surely did this too.
Worth mentioning that both Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac are both out of the lineup for Orlando and the Knicks are trailing 65-40 at the half.
James Harden has taken 15 shots from the field so far tonight. 13 of them have been 3 pointers. Somehow, he still has 9 foul shots.
He is officiated like no other player in the NBA. 8 of his 31 tonight from the free throw line.
Edit: On the season, he is averaging 18.6 shots per game, 12.4 of those are 3 pointers, so he's only taking 6.2 shots from inside the arc per game. He's averaging 8.4 foul shots a game.
Explain to me how virtually every time he goes to the hoop, he gets fouled, while Jaylen, Tatum and Kyrie never get fouled?
He is officiated like no other player in the NBA. 8 of his 31 tonight from the free throw line.
Edit: On the season, he is averaging 18.6 shots per game, 12.4 of those are 3 pointers, so he's only taking 6.2 shots from inside the arc per game. He's averaging 8.4 foul shots a game.
Explain to me how virtually every time he goes to the hoop, he gets fouled, while Jaylen, Tatum and Kyrie never get fouled?
It's bad that Kyrie can't buy that kind of treatment. Kids love the guy and he puts butts in seats, there's no reason why he shouldn't be getting more calls.
Harden is now up to 13 foul shots tonight. He's taken 19 shots, 17 of them have been 3's.
That's 13 foul shots on 2 field goal attempts inside of 3, so don't tell me the C's don't get calls because they settle for jumpers.
That's 13 foul shots on 2 field goal attempts inside of 3, so don't tell me the C's don't get calls because they settle for jumpers.
This doesn’t make any sense, if you’re fouled while missing a shot, it doesn’t register as a FG attempt.
Final Harden tally:
8-18 fga from 3
1-2 fg from 2
14-15 fta
As JA notes, some of those fta must have come on drives to the rim (though in the brief amount I hate-watched, at least four of them came from getting fouled shooting threes). Still disgusting to watch. 9 turnovers too.
Blecch. So brutally efficient and effective from the standpoint of math, and so brutal to watch (or to have to officiate).
Edit: meanwhile, you gotta love Mike D running an eight-man rotation on the second game of a B2B in November, including 75 combined minutes for old men CP3 and Tucker.
8-18 fga from 3
1-2 fg from 2
14-15 fta
As JA notes, some of those fta must have come on drives to the rim (though in the brief amount I hate-watched, at least four of them came from getting fouled shooting threes). Still disgusting to watch. 9 turnovers too.
Blecch. So brutally efficient and effective from the standpoint of math, and so brutal to watch (or to have to officiate).
Edit: meanwhile, you gotta love Mike D running an eight-man rotation on the second game of a B2B in November, including 75 combined minutes for old men CP3 and Tucker.
Nearly every time he drives to the hoop, he gets a foul call, which is why he only ends up with 2 field goal attempts inside the arc.
But, he also gets a bunch of foul calls on 3 pointers, because the refs seem to forget the rule change about jumping sideways into a defender after a pump fake, when it comes to Harden.
I keep saying it, from what I can tell, the biggest difference between the C's and teams like Houston when it comes to foul calls, is that they don't flop or whine enough. When Harden feels any contact, the whole arena knows about it. The C's have this unfortunate trait of trying to play through contact, and Brad doesn't work the refs, at all.
For comparison sake, the Celtics have 2 free throws right now. There is 4:40 left in the 2nd quarter.
It’s ironic since they changed the rules because of him and everyone just calls it the Harden Rule.
Harden definitely gets way too many foul calls, but I just went through the entire play by play of this game and he got fouled twice shooting threes the entire game, one he made (one FT) and one he missed (three FTs). I get your point, but you need to use different numbers/facts.
That wasn't my point. My point is he gets a foul call nearly every time he drives to the hoop. That's how you end up with 2 field goal attempts and 15 foul shots. He also gets like triple the number of foul shots on three pointers than anyone else in the league. I wasn't talking about tonight, this happens every night. I posted his season long stats earlier tonight.
Mitchell Robinson, the super raw insanely gifted athlete who the Knicks have been starting at C (rookie 2nd round draft pick) had 9 blocks tonight in 22 minutes, 16 blocks in 76 minutes in his last 4 games combined. 9 is a Knicks rookie record, one short of the franchise record.
He does something no one else really does. He throws his hands forward...the D 's natural instinct is to reach out. He is so strong, it doesn't matter. Most of the times he gets the call..by the letter of the law, he was fouled.
Yeah I didn't want to be the only one to state this but Harden is ridiculously skilled at drawing contact while strong enough to often finish through the contact. Harden is always going to draw more fouls than player-X for the simple reason that he is more skilled at this part of the game.
Trae Young bringing the Hawks back to take a 4th quarter lead against the Lakers. Should be a fun last 5 minutes.
And on the ensuing possession, Trae Young beats Ingram for a clean release at what looks like the game winning runner in the lane, only to have Tyson Chandler deliver a block right at the apex of the shot to end it.
Remarkable display of ugly hoops on display the last 5 minutes of that Hawks/Lakers game. Out of the 20-25 possessions I saw, probably 95% ended in a turnover or a bad shot. LeBron looked sluggish and awful, throwing up brick threes off zero ball movement and failing to create anything even when guarded by Trae Young. Finally got himself to the line late with the Lakeshow down one, clanged both, and then partially redeemed himself with a second putback (Kuzma had the first) to give the Lakers the lead.
Tyson Chandler wins it with a block on Trae Young at the buzzer that looked like goaltending.
Could be the B2B, but the Lakers look more disjointed and confused than I remember them to start to season. Greybeard LeBron no longer looks like a top 5 player, and I still have no idea who their second best player is. I guess Kuzma?
Tyson Chandler wins it with a block on Trae Young at the buzzer that looked like goaltending.
Could be the B2B, but the Lakers look more disjointed and confused than I remember them to start to season. Greybeard LeBron no longer looks like a top 5 player, and I still have no idea who their second best player is. I guess Kuzma?
I'm not sure eking out home wins by 1, 4 and 1 over Dallas, Minnesota and Atlanta has impressed anyone, least of all LeBron. The other two wins in that stretch are marginally more impressive: road wins in Sacramento (by 15) and Portland (by 4).
Even with the race for second-best in the West looking a lot more open than anyone imagined, I think the Lakers are still a pretty big longshot for #2 (i.e. either the #2 seed or one of the two WC finalists). I'd put my money on Portland, Denver, Utah, OKC, the Melo-less Rockets, and possibly even the Clips before them.
Even with the race for second-best in the West looking a lot more open than anyone imagined, I think the Lakers are still a pretty big longshot for #2 (i.e. either the #2 seed or one of the two WC finalists). I'd put my money on Portland, Denver, Utah, OKC, the Melo-less Rockets, and possibly even the Clips before them.
Yep, I’d put New Orleans and San Antonio in there also.
I'm just saying, after what we've seen the guy do his entire career and especially last season, it's pretty silly to be writing him off in November. Clearly LA is more likely to miss the playoffs than make the conference finals, but then again it's LeBron, and as you said, the West behind GS is opening up like the East did last year, so who knows.
I'm just saying, after what we've seen the guy do his entire career and especially last season, it's pretty silly to be writing him off in November. Clearly LA is more likely to miss the playoffs than make the conference finals, but then again it's LeBron, and as you said, the West behind GS is opening up like the East did last year, so who knows.
Is anyone surprised Melo to the Rockets failed? I really don’t see what Morey was thinking—-Carmelo is capable of being a terrific role player and still has skills, but he hasn’t shown any inclination to worry about team success since roughly the Olympics. A shame.
Perhaps they might figured it’s worth a shot to see if he’d play a role, but looks like a hard no.
Perhaps they might figured it’s worth a shot to see if he’d play a role, but looks like a hard no.
No, I am sure only Houston is surprised. Carmelo has been a corpse for a while now.
Many here know I've been down on Melo for years now. That said, as a stretch 4/bench scoring option/tertiary scorer in crunch time he still has the skills to contribute. But he doesn't (at all) seem to have the desire to become that guy. Which I think isn't a surprise, but odd that Houston apparently didn't scout that out at all---if they are giving up this quickly they really were off on expectations.
Is anyone going to take a chance on Melo after this Houston experiment? He clearly has unrealistic expectations that are not aligned with his current performance. He was playing almost 30 mpg and getting 12 SPG in Houston.
It's gotta be a real question at this point. A contender who has an injury late in the year perhaps, where they unexpectedly have shots to offer him? Beyond that, you'd think only a bad team looking to tank would want to play him in the role he feels he deserves and he may (or may not) be willing to go to a cellar-dweller.
Lebron may think he can keep him in line but why would Lakers want to mess around with that?
Lebron may think he can keep him in line but why would Lakers want to mess around with that?
Seems like just about the last thing Celtics need is Carmelo!
I guess better than say (and I’m just making it up) a return from Rick Pitino but that’s about only addition I can imagine that is less helpful than another expectation-heavy mouth to feed on the roster.
I’d rather resign Antoine than bring on Melo
I guess better than say (and I’m just making it up) a return from Rick Pitino but that’s about only addition I can imagine that is less helpful than another expectation-heavy mouth to feed on the roster.
I’d rather resign Antoine than bring on Melo
I’d like to think Ainge is smarter than that, but I’d also have thought Morey was smarter than that, too, so you never know.
Haha, I was just tweaking you guys. Even his his current diminished state, Hayward is a much better version of Melo.
If anyone could succeed in whipping Melo into his idealized Team USA self, it'd be his six Team USA teammates on the Warriors ... and I'd puke if we took a flier on him. He's washed, and was not a top 30 player even at his peak. Give me Alfonzo McKinnie and Damion Lee any day.
All of this was obvious from the get-go, though, right? I feel like it was obvious to Daryl Morey and Mike D'Antoni, too, but that they threw him a bone both to humor his buddy CP3, and because he basically came at no cost (and almost no opportunity cost). I imagine they strongly suspected this day would come when they signed him, even if it came a bit sooner than expected.
If anyone could succeed in whipping Melo into his idealized Team USA self, it'd be his six Team USA teammates on the Warriors ... and I'd puke if we took a flier on him. He's washed, and was not a top 30 player even at his peak. Give me Alfonzo McKinnie and Damion Lee any day.
All of this was obvious from the get-go, though, right? I feel like it was obvious to Daryl Morey and Mike D'Antoni, too, but that they threw him a bone both to humor his buddy CP3, and because he basically came at no cost (and almost no opportunity cost). I imagine they strongly suspected this day would come when they signed him, even if it came a bit sooner than expected.
Hot take of the day? Are you Mazz lol?
Melo prior to hitting 30 was a beast. He's a first ballot HOF based on this part of his career along with carrying Syracuse to a National Championship. The post-30 version was a combination of being trapped in a toxic situation in NY (much by his own doing) and his skillset in decline.
Ha, yeah, a bit of a hot take, but advanced stats have never rated him top 30, and generally put him well below that, even at his Denver-era volume-scoring peak.
We had this convo in the offseason thread, so I'll just repost a couple of the comments I wrote there:
====
I mean, he was a "surefire hall of famer" at least partly due to the overvaluing of PPG; and partly due to the fact that he landed in two stable situations where he was allowed/encouraged to gobble up touches and usage, and launch shots pretty much to his heart's content. He's always been rather Beasley-esque in terms of actually playing winning basketball (playing unselfishly, scoring efficiently, playing both ends of the floor, e.g.) By adjusted plus-minus measures, I'm pretty sure he's never ranked as a top 15 player in any given season. At his peak, I suspect he was a bit better than Beasley is now, but his current contract seemed obviously terrible at the time he signed it (to me, anyway).
====
I don't put too much stock in any single plus-minus measure, or any given season, since plus-minus results can be super-noisy. But the overall advanced metrics about 'Melo are unequivocal: he's never been a top 10 player in terms of impact on wins, or anywhere close. One could surmise that he's getting unfairly dinged for being a high-volume scorer — shot-creation does have value — but plenty of other high-volume guys (Kobe, LeBron, Harden, Westbrook, e.g.) have rated highly by plus-minus measures, where Melo never has.
Here's one RAPM archive I dug up:
NBA top 10 by RAPM, 2006-13 (i.e. Melo's 3rd-10th seasons)
2013: LeBron, Tony Parker, Garnett, Griffin, Harden, Taj Gibson, CP3, Vince Carter, Amir Johnson, Wade (Melo #98)
2012: n/a
2011: Nowitzki, Ginobili, Garnett, LeBron, Collison, Nash, CP3, Dwight, Wade, Deng (Melo #71)
2010: LeBron, Wade, Nash, Kobe, Howard, Collison, Bogut, Garnett, Bosh, Deron (Melo #43)
2009: LeBron, Garnett, Odom, Wade, Kobe, CP3, Rashard Lewis, Nash, Kidd, Yao (Melo #33)
2008: Garnett, Ginobili, Nash, Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Nowitzki, Pierce, Bosh, Baron Davis (Melo #209)
2007: Duncan, LeBron, Ginobili, Garnett, Nash, Nowitzki, Baron Davis, Kobe, Wade, Arenas (Melo #129)
2006: Wade, Duncan, Ginobili. Artest, Nowitzki, Kobe, LeBron, Kirilenko, Battier, Nash (Melo #182)
https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/
Last edited: