2018 HoF Ballot

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
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Jul 19, 2005
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No thread yet?

Newcomers to the ballot:

Chris Carpenter
Johnny Damon
Livan Hernandez
Orlando Hudson
Aubrey Huff
Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Jason Isringhausen
Carlos Lee
Brad Lidge
Hideki Matsui
Kevin Millwood
Jamie Moyer
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Jim Thome
Omar Vizquel
Kerry Wood
Carlos Zambrano

Holdovers:

Barry Bonds (6th)
Roger Clemens (6th)
Vladimir Guerrero (2nd)
Trevor Hoffman (3rd)
Jeff Kent (5th)
Edgar Martinez (9th)
Fred McGriff (9th)
Mike Mussina (5th)
Manny Ramirez (2nd)
Curt Schilling (6th)
Gary Sheffield (4th)
Sammy Sosa (6th)
Billy Wagner (3rd)
Larry Walker (8th)

I would go Bonds, Clemens, Chipper, Vlad, Edgar, Mussina, Walker, Rolen, Thome, Schilling. I would vote Manny and Sheff if I had more space (their cases are tough to distinguish from one another).
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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7: Vlad, Edgar, Bonds, Clemens, Mussina, Schilling, Chipper -- those are easy.
3: Thome, Manny... Walker. I guess I'm a sucker for sluggers this year. I could be talked into Rolen.

- I am unmoved by Trevor Hoffman. Billy Wagner has equal or better stats in every way other than saves (and, to be fair, in 18% fewer IP)
- In fact, if I were a voter and wanted to be tactical about it, I'd probably boot someone in favor of Wagner to try and keep him around until the backlog clears.
- No credible candidate this year really made a substantial part of their value through their defense, other than Rolen and Mussina I guess - unless you consider Andruw Jones credible. So, not a lot of different types of career profiles to weigh.
- None of them, save Schilling, could have their name appended to the title "Postseason Hero ____". Manny in 2007 I guess, and Rolen in 2006. Sheffield in 1997?
- Of the 7 "easy" votes I cast above, the one who got the most votes last year (Vlad) was also the lowest WAR, by a wide margin. At 59.3, Guerrero accumulated less than Sheffield or Andruw Jones.
 

Leather

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Jul 18, 2005
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Yeah even though he’s a prick, Chipper is a slam dunk. Thome is, too.

Not moved by any of the other new additions.
 

amfox1

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Locks: C.Jones, J.Thome, V.Guerrero, T.Hoffman
Steroids/Doping: R.Clemens, B.Bonds, M.Ramirez
Merits consideration: J.Santana, E.Martinez, M.Mussina, L.Walker, C.Schilling
Hall of very good: S.Rolen, A.Jones, O.Vizquel

My current ballot: C.Jones, J.Thome, V.Guerrero, T.Hoffman, R.Clemens, B.Bonds, J.Santana, E.Martinez, M.Mussina, L.Walker
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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Chipper
Vlad
Thome
Hoffman
Clemens
Bonds
Manny
Edgar
Schilling
Kent


Santana has no business in my opinion and I’m a ‘bigger hall’ guy. I could be convinced to bump Kent for someone with less time left, like Walker. I give two shits about steroids, put an asterisk or make a note on their plaque.
 

streeter88

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Apr 2, 2006
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I give two shits about steroids, put an asterisk or make a note on their plaque.
Can't agree more. Hall needs to include the best players, regardless of what they were on. Has been tainted by bad actors (greenies, spitballs, early steroids) forever.

Bonds
Clemens
Vlad
Thome
Chipper
Manny
Mussina
Edgar
Crime Dog
Schilling

Kent was always overshadowed and more of a prick than Barry, so no to him.
Omar signed a cap for my little girl once, but needs to wait a bit with Sheff.
Rolen and Walker maybe later than that.
 

simplicio

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If I had a ballot I would, as loudly and publicly as possible, spend this season and next, if necessary, voting only for Edgar. Everyone else can wait until the hall recognizes that the DH is an actual position worth acknowledging.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Aug 15, 2006
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Omar
Schilling (Even though he supports 45, and has an awful view point the guy was a HOFer on the field especially in the post season)
Edgar
Manny
Bonds
Clemens
Thome
Chipper
Vlad
Moose

I was never a big Hoffman guy. He's getting in but unless its a guy like Eck or Mo a closer needs to be amazing in order to get in over a pitcher who has won 220 games and pitched nails in the post season. Schilling is an example of course but if you look at the raw data Billy Wagner is closer to Hoffman than Hoffman is to Rivera. Pretty much view him on slightly higher tier than Lee Smith.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Chipper Jones
Jim Thome
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Larry Walker

Omar Vizquel was a tough cut, as we as Andruw Jones (both based on defense). I've never been a big Trevor Hoffman guy. I mean, I know that he was great, but Hall of Fame great? He's not jumping out at me.

I had my last two picks down to three guys: Walker, Sheffield and McGriff. I think that McGriff got robbed by the 1994 strike and would have been a HoFer with seven more dingers (500). I flipped a coin with Sheffield and Walker. I know Walker's numbers blow Sheff's away, but how much was Coors Field a factor in that? And Walker's defense was far better.

Fuck Curt Schilling now and forever.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Mar 11, 2008
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The pre-testing PED holdovers that would be in already without the suspicions or admissions need to get in to unclog the ballot. We need to rip that band-aid off already. I care about steroids once the league started caring about it enough to start testing and punishing players for using them. So if you've failed a test since the new policy has been in place (2007 to the present) that dings your candidacy for me.

So my ballot starts with:

Bonds
Clemens

Then we have the interesting questions for various reasons. Players who will almost certainly get in eventually, but haven't for one reason or another. Plus the PED cases who aren't so overwhelmingly in that there's no logical argument for keeping them out beyond PEDs.

Vlad Guerrero
Gary Sheffield
Manny Ramirez
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Billy Wagner
Trevor Hoffman
Sammy Sosa
Larry Walker

And the new locks:

Chipper Jones
Jim Thome

New players who might get in eventually, or at least should hang around on the ballot a while:

Scott Rolen
Andruw Jones
Fred McGriff
Omar Vizquel
Jeff Kent

I don't think any of the following have a legitimate chance, but I'm guessing we'll see some votes:

Hidecki Matsui
Johan Santana
Jamie Moyer
Carlos Zambrano

Manny failed two tests after the policy was in place, that dings his candidacy for me fairly significantly. I think he deserves to get in eventually, but I'm willing to leave him off my hypothetical ballot and bet that he'll have enough votes to survive for a few years while more worthy (IMO) candidates get through the backlog. Sosa I waffle on a lot, so I'm gonna make the same bet with him. Sheffield too.

Bonds, Clemens, Chipper, Thome, Edgar Martinez, Vlad, Mussina, Schilling, Hoffman, Wagner

Schilling is a vile piece of shit, but if I'm not letting PED use (or heavy suspicion) stop me from voting for Bonds or Clemens, I can't wrap my head around not voting for Schilling because he's a bigot who won't shut up about it. I also think we undervalue relievers in general and that extends to HoF voting. I'd like to see both Hoffman and Wagner in as it would set a good precedent.

If we can have a big class and get 4 in, that makes room for Manny and maybe Sheff and Sosa to get back in, depending on the incoming class.

That said, I wish we'd just have one abnormally large class (6 or 7) to clear the way and ease the logjam up a bit.

My prediction is that we'll see Chipper, Thome, Vlad and Hoffman. Vlad and Hoffman were really close last year. Edgar has another year left on the ballot, so he'll probably see a boost from last year's percentage and get to the high 60's or low 70's, and then get over the hump next year.
 

charlieoscar

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Sep 28, 2014
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Sorry, Joe Morgan, but your era (and earlier) was filled with amphetamines and anabolic steroids can be traced back to the 1930s although it wasn't until the '50s that their use became more main stream (among body builders).
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
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Bonds, Clemens, Chipper, Thome, Edgar, Vlad, Mussina, Schilling, Manny, Rolen.

Rolen's got 70 WAR. I know we're now shitting on WAR, but I look at the stats and the memories and say he's in. I remember seeing him play in 2005 and thinking "This guy's a Hall of Famer".

I think Johan Santana has a decent peak argument. That run from 2004-2008 was really, really, really good. He was dominant and threw a ton of innings, so his seasons were incredibly valuable. Halladay's probably a lock now that he's dead, but if you compare the two I think Santana's right there on peak value.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
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Rolen's got 70 WAR. I know we're now shitting on WAR, but I look at the stats and the memories and say he's in. I remember seeing him play in 2005 and thinking "This guy's a Hall of Famer".
Rolen is an interesting case. He'll probably get in eventually, but I have trouble relying on his WAR to get me there on voting for him*. We're just not that good at measuring defense, and going back that far it's even less reliable. I'm not arguing he wasn't a great defender, but more than 40% of his fWAR value is tied up in defense. He might end up just short of getting in when his 10 years are up, and I don't think it would be a travesty if that's how it plays out. That said, I'd certainly say he's more worthy than Jim Rice.

*My comment on WAR has nothing to do with the recent Bill James stuff.
 
Last edited:

Average Reds

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I endorse the JMOH philosophy, "Fuck Curt Schilling now and forever."

My picks:
  • Barry Bonds
  • Roger Clemens
  • Vladimir Guerrero
  • Edgar Martinez
  • Fred McGriff
  • Mike Mussina
  • Manny Ramirez
  • Gary Sheffield
  • Jim Thome
  • Chipper Jones
I'd love to include Jamie Moyer, because that's a guy who figured out how to pitch when he was 34 years old and won 197 games from that point on. I get that his career stats doesn't scream "Hall of Fame" but his performance from 1997 - 2010 is one of the greatest stretches we'll ever see in terms of sheer guile. He was Gregg Maddux with about 40% of Maddux' talent.

Sadly, the ballot is too clogged and I don't have room. (Same for Rolen.) But I was tempted.

Oh, and fuck Curt Schilling.
 

Cumberland Blues

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Andruw Jones was possibly the best defensive CF of all time. That and 434 HR gets him on my ballot. B-Ref dWAR for CFers:

1 Andruw Jones 24.1
2 Paul Blair 18.6
3 Willie Mays 18.1
4 Devon White 16.2
5 Jim Piersall 15.3
6 Kenny Lofton 14.7
 

Seabass

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Oct 30, 2004
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If I could only vote for 10, it'd be these players:

Bonds
Clemens
Vlad
Edgar
Schilling
Walker
JI-
JIM THOME
Rolen
Chipper
Mussina

Others I'd probably vote for:

Andruw
Johan
Manny

Don't think I'd vote for but would be fine if they got in:

Kent
Hoffman
McGriff
Sheff

Finally, Omar Vizquel had no peak, was somewhere from fine to very good defensively, and took 24 years to accrue 45 bWAR. He has a career 82 OPS+. He's not a HOF caliber player at any time, but particularly on this ballot, where he's something like the 25th best player listed.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
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Rolen is an interesting case. He'll probably get in eventually, but I have trouble relying on his WAR to get me there on voting for him*. We're just not that good at measuring defense, and going back that far it's even less reliable. I'm not arguing he wasn't a great defender, but more than 40% of his sWAR value is tied up in defense. He might end up just short of getting in when his 10 years are up, and I don't think it would be a travesty if that's how it plays out. That said, I'd certainly say he's more worthy than Jim Rice.

*My comment on WAR has nothing to do with the recent Bill James stuff.
I am a Scott Rolen Defense Believer.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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Finally, Omar Vizquel had no peak, was somewhere from fine to very good defensively, and took 24 years to accrue 45 bWAR. He has a career 82 OPS+. He's not a HOF caliber player at any time, but particularly on this ballot, where he's something like the 25th best player listed.
Yeah I just can't fathom the people here who are voting for Omar Vizquel - in general, but especially over some of the other players here who were far better of a player than he was. Sure, he was part of the late-90s Indians juggernaut, and went to 2 WS (Where he OPS'd .571), but he was a black hole at the plate, even by MLB standards nevermind HOF standards.

I'm fine with stretching normal boundaries to elect the best defensive shortstop of all time (Ozzie Smith), but even Smith had nearly double Vizquel's offensive WAR and his defensive WAR. I understand votes for Andruw Jones, but not Vizquel. @Tyrone Biggums can you explain your thinking?

(likewise Fred McGriff, but he seems to have a greater nostalgic constituency and a cool nickname)
 

BigMike

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Honestly if I were one who had a vote I would potentially cast the Inverse protest ballot

Clemens, and Bonds, and no one else until they get in. As much as I despise the Con man from Katy, the Hall is absolutely meaningless until these 2 get in.

In terms of filing out the other 8

Thome
Chipper
Vlad
Manny
Edgar
Sosa
Moose
Rolen

The only Hall Jeff Kent belongs in is the Hall of F*** You
 

Plympton91

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Oct 19, 2008
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Mike Mussina and Curt Schilling were among the best pitchers of their era, hands down. If they don't start putting more pitchers in from the 90s, then you have to question whether the inflated offense means anything.

Vlad Guerrero, Chipper Jones, Edgar Martinez because DH is an important and possibly undervalued position, Trevor Hoffman because closer is a position like DH, Jeff Kent was one of the best hitters who could play a passable 2B ever, Scott Rolen as one of the best 3B ever and 3B being underrepresented in the Hall, Jim Thome, because he's presumed clean.

Leaves room for one of Walker, Andrew Jones, or McGriff. I think Walker was the best of that group, based on how good he was with Montreal, so he's my 10th.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I could be talked into Rolen, not this year but at some point. Thinking of him my first thought is ‘injury prone’. 17 seasons and barely over 2000 games (even if you exclude his rookie season, still low). Then I looked and it’s not as bad as I recall. Looking at his stats, I was shocked to see him 10th all time for JAWS at 3B, which includes Molitor at #9. I guess him being in the NL for most of his career I never got an appreciation for him. I think once the glut gets thinned out, he gets in.

Looking at the lists, it also shocked me that Beltre is 4th in JAWS and 3rd in WAR. I’m
Not sure how to take that - if he’s that underrated or if the above comment by Snod about dWAR is correct, that it’s too hard to pin down.
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
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I get being skeptical of the defensive component of WAR, but I'm not sure it's exactly fair to penalize players for grading out well by those metrics, and it seems especially bizarre to apply that skepticism to Rolen and Beltre. These aren't guys who only exist in Ken Burns documentaries; they're players most of us saw in recent memory, and this seems like a case where the anecdotal/eye test stuff actually does align with the numbers, such as they are. I think it's okay to say that they were good defenders.
 

charlieoscar

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Sep 28, 2014
1,339
Is it fair to use fielding stats at all? Skimming over the fact that in early baseball the state of the fields and infields were terrible and when they started wearing gloves and used one-two baseballs per game, those weren't very good, and going on to the fact that the voters probably didn't see fielders from the other league except for a limited number in All-Star Games and World Series, we also get to the realization that even today when all games are available on television very few people watch more than their own team.

You can't say that you've seen Mookie Betts play and he made these great catches and StatCast ranks him around the top and say he was a better center fielder than Tris Speaker. ANd you have no way of telling whether Speaker could have been better than Betts he he played in today's game.

In 1999 Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove at first base while playing 28 games at that position for Texas, along with 128 games as DH and two as PH.
 

lexrageorge

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My votes:


Chipper Jones - Fairly obvious choice here.
Jim Thome - Similar career numbers to Chipper.
Barry Bonds - It's time. I feel he was well on his way to an HoF career even before the cream and clear.
Roger Clemens - If his "twilight" lasted 1 game, he would have gotten in.
Edgar Martinez - I hate the "anti-DH" mentality. He was one of the best DH's in the game. Plus this opens the door for Papi.
Mike Mussina - Dominant for many years while toiling for bad Oriole teams.
Manny Ramirez - One of the best RHH's of all time.
Larry Walker - Probably the most difficult "for" vote, given the Coors field effects.
Trevor Hoffman - I don't like voting for modern day relievers, but he was one of the best this side of Mt. Mariano (who will be voted in next year anyway)
Andrew Jones - Tossup between him and Scott Rolen.

Toughest omissions:

Omar Vizquel - Not sure he's worthy with that OPS+ of 82
Vlad - Quietly good, but never seemed to be great.
Fred McGriff
Gary Sheffield
Scott Rolen - Maybe next year

Easiest omission:

Curt Schilling - Yes, I get that there are plenty of assholes in the Hall. I also get that there are plenty of past and present MLB players that share his politics. So does a significant portion of the American voting population. But he's clearly gone off the deep end with his remarks and doesn't seem to care, so why should I care if he doesn't get in.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Yeah I just can't fathom the people here who are voting for Omar Vizquel - in general, but especially over some of the other players here who were far better of a player than he was. Sure, he was part of the late-90s Indians juggernaut, and went to 2 WS (Where he OPS'd .571), but he was a black hole at the plate, even by MLB standards nevermind HOF standards.

I'm fine with stretching normal boundaries to elect the best defensive shortstop of all time (Ozzie Smith), but even Smith had nearly double Vizquel's offensive WAR and his defensive WAR. I understand votes for Andruw Jones, but not Vizquel. @Tyrone Biggums can you explain your thinking?

(likewise Fred McGriff, but he seems to have a greater nostalgic constituency and a cool nickname)
His defense was elite. Career .272 hitter with 11 Gold Gloves. He fell a few hundred hits short of 3000. Honestly I watched him a lot when he played for the Indians and always made it look so easy. He finished his career with more hits and a higher average than Ozzie Smith. Not necessarily saying he was better than Ozzie but its also close enough to make a HOF case not far fetched.
 

BigMike

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My votes:



Vlad - Quietly good, but never seemed to be great.
Vlad was only quietly good, but never great?

The negative with Vlad is he hit the wall at a young age. He had a 10 year stretch where he averaged 35 HR, 100 runs, 103 RBI, 16.5 steals, and OPS of around 985, and an OPS+ around 165.

His HOF black ink i test is low, but that is because his big years largely coincided with Bonds, Sosa, Pujols years. If he puts up the numbers he had 10 years earlier or 10 years later, he might have won 4-5 MVP
 

GrandSlamPozo

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May 16, 2017
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My votes:


Chipper Jones - Fairly obvious choice here.

...

Easiest omission:

Curt Schilling - Yes, I get that there are plenty of assholes in the Hall. I also get that there are plenty of past and present MLB players that share his politics. So does a significant portion of the American voting population. But he's clearly gone off the deep end with his remarks and doesn't seem to care, so why should I care if he doesn't get in.
Chipper Jones is arguably an even bigger loon than Schilling
 

moondog80

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His defense was elite. Career .272 hitter with 11 Gold Gloves. He fell a few hundred hits short of 3000. Honestly I watched him a lot when he played for the Indians and always made it look so easy. He finished his career with more hits and a higher average than Ozzie Smith. Not necessarily saying he was better than Ozzie but its also close enough to make a HOF case not far fetched.
His career MVP vote history consists of a single 8th place vote. That’s good for a tie for 1582nd jn baseball history.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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My votes:

Mike Mussina - Dominant for many years while toiling for bad Oriole teams.

Vlad - Quietly good, but never seemed to be great.
I have no idea how to reconcile these two statements. I don't think I ever once thought of Mussina as dominant, let alone for many years. He was a very very good pitcher but his best season was probably 1994 with an ERA+ of 164 in a strike shortened season. That ties him for 235th best season. Doesn't really scream dominant to me.

Vlad was a beast. As Big Mike says, he caught shade because of his contemporaries and (I'll add) his market(s).

Mussina will likely and rightly get in at some point, but I can't say he was ever considered a top 3-5ish player at his position. Vlad was most certainly that for many years.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
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I don't even think Vlad caught shade because of his markets. He won an MVP in Anaheim, and it was practically a meme for people to say "Hey, you heard about that Vladimir Guerrero in Montreal? He's the best player you never heard of!". This is probably just the tinge of nostalgia, but the guy seemed to be more famous for playing in the Big O in front of 6,000 people and never talking in English to anybody ever* than Mike Trout is now for all his feats. Vlad was on the cover of SI as an Expo back when that was a big deal.

He made the most amazing play I've ever seen on a ballfield, and he seemed to inspire stories like that all over the place. The only negative impact fame had on him was in the 2010 World Series, seeing him fight the right field corner at AT&T Park with his shitty knees, balls getting by him because he couldn't really bend his knees anymore, made me understand what people must have felt like watching Willie Mays fall down twice playing center field in the 1973 World Series.

*something he can do, apparently, passably so anyway
 

grimshaw

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Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Scott Rolen

Jim Thome
Barry Bonds (6th)
Roger Clemens (6th)
Edgar Martinez (9th)
Mike Mussina (5th)

Manny Ramirez (2nd)
Curt Schilling (6th)
Billy Wagner (3rd)
Larry Walker (8th)



I would vote for all of the above, but am bolding my first preferences so they at least stay on the ballot.
Manny has plenty of time and Thome ought to get in this year.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I don't even think Vlad caught shade because of his markets. He won an MVP in Anaheim, and it was practically a meme for people to say "Hey, you heard about that Vladimir Guerrero in Montreal? He's the best player you never heard of!". This is probably just the tinge of nostalgia, but the guy seemed to be more famous for playing in the Big O in front of 6,000 people and never talking in English to anybody ever* than Mike Trout is now for all his feats. Vlad was on the cover of SI as an Expo back when that was a big deal.

He made the most amazing play I've ever seen on a ballfield, and he seemed to inspire stories like that all over the place. The only negative impact fame had on him was in the 2010 World Series, seeing him fight the right field corner at AT&T Park with his shitty knees, balls getting by him because he couldn't really bend his knees anymore, made me understand what people must have felt like watching Willie Mays fall down twice playing center field in the 1973 World Series.

*something he can do, apparently, passably so anyway
Which is all fair, but you used to live in SF right? The east/west coast bias for the majority of players not named Trout or Kershaw is quite real and certainly was when he was in his prime. Had he been a Yankee or Red Sox or Oriole or Cub, there really wouldn’t even be a debate. The vast majority of his career and certainly his prime were spent in a time when non major markets didn’t get the attention of social media, of things like Extra Innings packages or MLB network didn’t exist and yeah, I think it’s nostalgia to think people talked about him that much. But whatever, I think we agree on his place in the games history.
 

luckiestman

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First year I had extra innings tv package was around I think 04 or 05. Vlad was appointment television. Guy was a monster. HoF for me.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
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Which is all fair, but you used to live in SF right? The east/west coast bias for the majority of players not named Trout or Kershaw is quite real and certainly was when he was in his prime. Had he been a Yankee or Red Sox or Oriole or Cub, there really wouldn’t even be a debate. The vast majority of his career and certainly his prime were spent in a time when non major markets didn’t get the attention of social media, of things like Extra Innings packages or MLB network didn’t exist and yeah, I think it’s nostalgia to think people talked about him that much. But whatever, I think we agree on his place in the games history.
I really don't think there's a Hall of Fame debate about Vlad, he was 15 votes shy of election on his first try on an incredibly crowded ballot where he was the 12th best candidate by WAR*. He's almost certainly going to get in this year, if not then definitely the year after. He's going in.

My point is he transcended the market disadvantages about as much as is possible for a player in the modern, hyperlocalized world of MLB. If you were sentient and following baseball from 1999-2007 or so, you loved Vlad and told people about it.
 

Boggs26

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The negative with Vlad is he hit the wall at a young age. He had a 10 year stretch where he averaged 35 HR, 100 runs, 103 RBI, 16.5 steals, and OPS of around 985, and an OPS+ around 165.
Even this is an odd thing to say. He was basically very very good to great from his rookie year until he was 33, then he had 2 slightly above average seasons, a slightly below average season, and retired. If he had lingered until he was 40 as some seem to wish, and simply been a below average hitter, he'd have had 3000 hits and 500 hr. Although then people would probably complain that they are just counting stats that he built up while not being very good anymore.
 

OurF'ingCity

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The negative with Vlad is he hit the wall at a young age.
The negative with Vlad and the reason he doesn't do very well in WAR, JAWS, etc. is because at least based on the statistics he was pretty terrible at defense (and baserunning) and also played a decent amount of DH which hurts his value. Classic stats back this up; Vlad led all right fielders in errors for seven straight years (though he did have a great arm obviously).

YMMV when it comes to how much to ding Vlad for that (he really probably shouldn't have been playing right field at all, especially later in his career), but that is the big negative with him.
 

Gdiguy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
6,231
San Diego, CA
I forgot about that tracker...

Surprised Johan has 0 votes so far (out of 29 public ballots); I'm not surprised he won't make it, but surprised he may fall off the ballot so fast
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,220
Portland
Very happy for Trammell.

As for Morris . .not so much.
ERA - of 95. A 1.30 WHIP, 3.94 FIP. 5.8k/9
One season above 5 WAR. 55 career.
Post season 7-4 3.80 and world series MVP
3 20 win seasons

And Tiant
ERA - of 87. A 1.20 WHIP. 3.47 FIP and 6.2k/9
3 seasons above 5 WAR and 55 career.
Post season 3-0 2.86
4 20 win seasons

I guess the world series mvp put him over the top and 254 wins is way more impressive than Tiants' puny 229 despite being worse in all rate categories. Voters are morons.

I don't really think either deserve to be in, but don't understand one over the other.
Hell, David Wells isn't even that far off and I don't think anyone thinks of him that way either.

David Wells
ERA - of 93. A 1.27 WHIP 3.99 FIP, 5.7k/p
One season above 5 WAR. 58 career.
Post season 10-5 3.17 and an ALCS MVP
One 20 win season
 
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Seabass

has an efficient neck
SoSH Member
Oct 30, 2004
5,342
Brooklyn
Glad Trammell is in. I don't see how you can look at Morris and Tiant side by side like the the VC just did and choose Morris.

Marvin Miller not being elected, again, is just outrageous. You can easily say he's the most important figure in modern baseball history.
 

axx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,126
Looks like it could be a crowded election - Chipper, Vlad and Thome are getting in and Hoffman again is right on the bubble. Edgar is gaining votes but I think he's going to be a bit short.