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2018 Draft: Patriots need to re-stock

Discussion in 'Wait, Who???' started by Marbleheader, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

    Messages:
    10,221
    The Patriots finally have a first round pick for only the 3rd time in 6 years and the only players they have drafted in the 1st since Hightower was taken in 2012 are Dominique Easley and Malcolm Brown. They need some top-tier talent and have 4 picks in the top 100.

    The Patriots do not own their 4th (Eric Rowe trade) or 5th (Cassius Marsh) round pick. However, they are expected to get a 4th round comp pick for Jabaal Sheard and possibly a 7th for Blount. I'm not able to determine if they have their own 7th as they made a couple of deals that involve 7th round picks.

    I think it looks like this:

    1st Round #31
    2nd Round #41
    2nd Round #63
    3rd Round
    4th Round Comp
    6th Round
    7th Round Comp

    I'd like to see them land a CB, LB, OT and QB with their first 4 picks.
     
  2. Reardons Beard

    Reardons Beard Member SoSH Member

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    3,163
    The whole defense needs help, granted there will be help coming back from injuries. Have to think pass rush and secondary at top of list.

    Also need to seriously think about the next kicker for this team. Maybe you make a move, maybe not, but there seems to be a decline underway.

    And the whole 'post Brady QB project.'
     
  3. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    14,365
    They traded a 7th as part of the Marsh deal. What a waste of a trade that was. Would be nice to have both of those 2 picks back now despite them being in the bottom of the draft.
     
  4. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    14,365
    Needs

    Multi Linebackers
    Defensive Line
    Quarterback
    Cornerback
    Tight End
    Running Back
     
  5. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    Gostkowski had his third best FG%, missed two XPs all year, and, of his two misses, one was as the half was ending from 53 and one was the awful snap that he still almost made.
     
  6. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Please draft a LB early, a la Mayo.
    I'm hoping for something like
    OLB/Edge
    DL
    MLB
    CB a la Samuel assuming Butler is gone
    QB dev

    first 5 picks. Then depends what they do with RB/Allen-Bennett/Cooks for the 6th/7th

    A lot of OL/DT types for UFA
     
  7. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Also hoping they trade some 2019 picks or lagging assets for 2018 picks
     
  8. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    I'd gamble Brady is still fine for next year and go all-in on defensive help honestly

    GFIN but look at what the offense did yesterday. the window is open as long as Brady is able
     
  9. Scriblerus

    Scriblerus Member SoSH Member

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    991
    If Brady has one good year left before decline, now is the time to go all-in on defense. Shift the dominance from offense to defense over the next few years, so when a new QB is under center the D can carry the team as he develops.
     
  10. Was (Not Wasdin)

    Was (Not Wasdin) family crest has godzilla SoSH Member

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    1,827
    This team needs to restock at a lot of spots, but I'd move TE up the list. I think Gronk comes back next year, but I'm not sure about 2019-a lot of savings if they cut him. If he doesn't take a discount to extend/restructure, I could see them cutting ties before the 2019 season.
     
  11. RGREELEY33

    RGREELEY33 Potty Mouth Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The talk of replacing Ghost is ridiculous.

    Even with Hightower and Rivers coming back next year and hopefully contributing, this team needs a lot of help at LB and DE. I would also like to see some CB help and some OL depth.

    I think LB, DE, CB, OL should be priorities in the first 4 picks.
     
  12. brandonchristensen

    brandonchristensen mad photochops SoSH Member

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    22,843
    Draft a QB at some point. Brady is good for next year. I think his fire will be lit hard as fuck (more than this year even).

    He will want 6. And he'll get it.
     
  13. Mooch

    Mooch Member SoSH Member

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    I'd be willing to trade up to the 20s if it meant getting a kid like Malik Jefferson from Texas. The Patriots sorely need some speed in the front 7 and Jefferson can make plays from sideline to sideline as well as solid coverage skills. He fits a huge hole in this defense.
     
  14. Reardons Beard

    Reardons Beard Member SoSH Member

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    3,163
    Yeah that's fair. I didn't have the numbers in front of me so hence "think about it" and I suspect they may still do so.
     
  15. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    Depending on how long BB and Brady are sticking around it wouldn’t shock me to see the pats trade up if there is someone they really want.
     
  16. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Does anyone know what the deal is with Antonio Garcia? He was 6'-6.25", 302lbs at the combine. Mayock had this to say about him after the draft: "Garcia has starting left tackle traits, but he's a great fit. He plays nasty through the whistle. He's a little grabby in pass protection."
    Here was his draft profile on NFL.com.
    Here was the thread about him here on SOSH.
    But now I'm hearing that he is under 260lbs.
    Has anyone heard any rumors ass to what his "non-football injury" was?
     
  17. Over Guapo Grande

    Over Guapo Grande panty merchant SoSH Member

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    1,506
    I imagine that they will think of it for less time than it takes me to spell Ghoser...Gohstow... the kicker’s name correctly.
     
  18. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
  19. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

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    They probably need an offensive tackle as well. They have so many needs right now, it's hard to say where they need to draft help and where there might be affordable FAs that fill holes.

    Within the top four picks, they probably will end up needing two guys in the front seven and a cornerback. And making the assumption that Brady has one more year left being Brady, you really need a QB that you believe can be the successor. That's always easy to find...
     
  20. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    14,365
    This is where trading Jimmy G for just a second round pick hurts. They have multiple needs and needed multiple picks to address these concerns. Also looking back I think the Pats should have just traded Butler straight up for Cooks and kept the 32nd pick.
     
  21. edmunddantes

    edmunddantes Member SoSH Member

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    Who was offering multiple picks for 2 and a quarter games Jimmy G?

    They couldn't trade Butler at the time. It would have been illegal.
     
  22. Shelterdog

    Shelterdog Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I know they were thinking about some sort of sign and trade with Butler but I'd be absolutely shocked if the Saints would have traded Butler for Cooks straight up.

    The Jimmy G contract today actually shows how hard it would be to get good value for Jimmy--we'll never know precisely what was said between Jimmy's agent and other teams but it's pretty clear that Jimmy went to a team that had agreed to give him an absolute monster of a contract and if you're in that position you could just tell every single other team that you don't want to be traded to them.
     
  23. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

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    I would have loved to get twice the value they got for Jimmy G, but presumably Belichick feels the same way and this is what he could get.

    This could be a year where they trade down using the first rounder and take a bunch of shots in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
     
  24. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Might be wrong here but I do not think Belichick traditionally likes smaller undersized linebacker bigger safety types. But times change and seeing as our lack of speed in the front 7 here is a guy to consider and he is someone who could be available at 31 (maybe 43 but probably not). Rashaan Evans. He’s a linebacker out of Alabama so he has the Saban connection. He can get to the outside and cover the RB (fast, athletic). Last night I watched him versus Clemson, Georgia, Tennessee, and LSU. Let’s start with a few flaws I saw: When he lined up as an outside pass rusher he didn’t have much success but he has a spin move in his repertoire that is devastating. Unfortunately he doesn’t use it much. He couldn’t finish/missed at least 1-2 tackles a game either. He sometimes struggles shedding blocks especially if engaged with an offensive lineman in the second level. Scouts also commented on his initial slow processing speed. He does hesitate right after the snap when he’s playing the middle of the field and not rushing. He doesn’t bite on play action passes though.

    Positives? He’s physical. When he tackles someone there is an audible pop. He’s a violent tackler. He jams receivers, saw this a few times on crossing routes, and can stick to a receiver running up field 20-30 yards. That’s something that our LBs can’t do. He has great anticipating of where the play is going and speed to get there to make a stop. He’s someone who is fantastic against the run. He’s fast so he can get to the edge and defend against the outside runs and toss away receivers trying to block him (watching him toss a receiver blocking him like a rag doll and make a tackle on the outside is not only a good play but humorous too).

    To me Evans is a guy who can play on almost every single down. He might not ever materialize as a pass rusher but could be successful as a rotational rusher - he had success lining up in the middle like he was going to drop back in pass coverage and then blitz up the A gap. I could imagine some double A-gap (maybe cross dog) calls where he and Hightower blitz. Evans can cover the RB in wheel routes, cover receivers downfield, and is fast and powerful defending the run.
    Again, pretty sure Belichick hasn’t traditionally liked players like Evans but one thing we know about Belichick is that he does adapt and changes over time. I wouldn’t be surprised if Evans is available at 31 if he isn’t the pick.
     
  25. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,911
    FWIW McShay current mocks UNC CB MJ Stewart to the Pats at 31

    From USA Today:

    A stout cover man with a well-rounded skill set, Stewart was one of this year’s biggest winners at Senior Bowl practices. His physical style of play will impress teams who prefer to play press-man coverage, but a deep corner class could make him a bargain in the middle rounds.
     
  26. drleather2001

    drleather2001 given himself a skunk spot SoSH Member

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    25,262
    I think a solid O Line is more important for developing a QB than a good D. All those chances on offense won't mean shit if the QB can't stand up. See, for instance, David Carr.

    I'd go LB, S, OL, QB.
     
  27. Shelterdog

    Shelterdog Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    11,182
    QB is the tough pick. Given Brady's age and the importance of the position you essentially have to draft the first one you can who you think has a good chance of developing into a strong NFL starter but it's pretty hard to find someone like that in the late first of second, and the chances of finding someone good after the second are vanishingly small
     
  28. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

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    575
    Good call, SMU - I'm a big Rashaan Evans fan. I don't actually see a lot of daylight between Evans and Roquan Smith, actually. Evans is bigger, Smith is probably a little more instinctive, but Evans would be an excellent pick.

    Darius Leonard is a binky of mine. He doesn't fit the typical Patriots physical LB profile (213lbs, he'll obviously bulk up), but he flies around the field, plays with an edge and is basically just an ass-kicker out there. I think he'll be an excellent 2nd round pick for someone.

    Jerome Baker is another interesting guy. Another in the Ohios St LB pipeline; a little small (6'1, 225lbs but will put on weight) but he plays sideline to sideline and has advanced coverage skills. Might not be the toughest guy and not very physical taking on blocks, but the Patriots could use his skill-set.
     
  29. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
    Darius Leonard is the next guy I want to look at. He checked in at 6’2’’ and 229 at the senior bowl. Apparently was impressive in coverage. Thanks for the idea.
     
  30. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,604
    Why would we think that Yee was given permission to talk to other teams about what his subsequent contract would look like? Or that he had any sway in where he was traded? Isn’t that part of the definition of tampering?
     
  31. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
    El Jeffe, I only could find two full games of Darius to watch, 2016 vs UCF and 2017 vs NC Central. The good news is he looked great in those games and in senior bowl week.
    He takes good angles and with his speed gets there. He routinely stopped outside runs.
    He could probably put on another 5-15 pounds and that would help shed blocks better. Leonard is a small school prospect. With Evans we have film from him against top 25 schools. Leonard doesn’t have that.
    What blew me away about him is how he would often be responsible for covering someone on one side of the field and could make a tackle for a short gain all the way on the other side. I would be watching and thinking that Leonard wouldn’t end up making a play here because how could he cover that distance? But he did, and often too. I want to know how he tests. I would assume he might be above average in most areas with a very good 40 time. Curious to see the 3-cone.

    He can be over-agressive against the run and offenses did take advantage of that. He did make plays near the line of scrimmage getting off of blocks from linemen but that’s an area that he could be more consistent about.

    Leonard is someone I wouldn’t expect to come in and immediately contribute. He’d be someone who would play special teams (had a blocked field goal) and learn the ropes and maybe have a small role by the end of the season. But his year 2-4 I think he has the potential to be a starter in either base or nickle (nickle is the new base?) because of his speed and ability to both cover and be effective against the run.
     
  32. Shelterdog

    Shelterdog Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    11,182
    Nobody's giving Yee permission and it could be tampering but so what; you can't stop Yee from calling up GM's and saying "what are the traits that kyle shannahan looks for in a QB? Do they include devlish good looks and an eastern illinois pedigree"?

    The Schefters, Glazers, KIngs, etc. of the world say that there's a huge amount of informal communications of this sort. (Which is why historically so many players would sign during minute one of free agency--those deals had to have been worked out in advance).
     
  33. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,604
    Ok, but that’s why they put in the ‘legal tampering’ period. The important question that you ignored is why you think BB would give a fuck about that when deciding where to trade him. He’s going to take the best offer he gets.
     
  34. Shelterdog

    Shelterdog Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    11,182
    How good is Cleveland's offer going to be if Don Yee tells Cleveland that Jimmy's not signing there long term? BB didn't have a lot of leverage in this deal.
     
  35. Rough Carrigan

    Rough Carrigan reasons within Reason Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    18,810
    Exactly.
    Thank you.
    The idea that Jimmy was just going to let himself be traded anywhere without trying to influence teams he finds undesirable to not make the trade is ridiculously naive. I listened to a few minutes of talk radio shortly after the trade and this angle was completely missing from the discussion. It was infuriatingly stupid.
     
  36. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,112
    There was no smoke around this fire, and if New England does not leak, Cleveland does profusely. Somebody around the Browns breathes, Mary Kay Cabot writes about it.

    I have seen nothing that contradicts this account of the trade.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ni...belichick-49ers-kyle-shanahan-jimmy-garoppolo

    The fuse on JG was short, Cleveland likely was never offering a 1st because they have never seem inclined to do so and are stingy with their picks, B.B. loves him high second round picks, and it’s nice to have JG in the NFC.

    Pats certainly did not maximize JG value — but remember that they never really wanted to part with him. For a late Oct trade, they did ok.
     
  37. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    I’ve now scouted over 10 linebackers in my “spare time” (that’s laughable) and it has been a fun distraction.

    I’m starting to feel the same way about PFF as I do about Football Outsiders. PFF doesn’t adjust for level of competition. They also value production in the college game quite a bit as opposed to traits and skills (not that they ignore those).

    PFF just released their pre-combine first round grades. Three linebackers got a first round grade (Roquan Smith, Tremaine Edmunds, and Leighton Vander Esch) and were deemed freak athletes. I agree that both Smith and Edmunds are athletically gifted and first round talent but Leighton Vander Esch? I don’t get the athletic hype and maybe this is because I am very new at this but his tape just didn’t do much for me. Maybe the only public film on him is mediocre? He’s a guy I thought the Pats might look at but more day 2 and later day 2 at that. Pass though at 42 or under. Thought Leonard was much more athletic.
     
  38. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Albert Breer today in his mock:

    31. New England: Leighton Vander Esch, LB, Boise State
    The Patriots need pieces in the front seven, and Vander Esch would give them insurance for Dont’a Hightower, as well as perhaps his eventual replacement.

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-josh-allen-giants
     
  39. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
    Not trying to kill the messenger here (obviously not E5's mock draft) but Hightower has around 25-35 pounds on Vander Esch and in 2016-2017 played a different role for the Pats than Vander Esch did at Boise. Vander Esch is basically a one year wonder in terms of time on the field. You have to project him a lot in coverage. I'll watch him again and in particular against Oregon where he had a great bowl game. Also, combine is next week and he's a guy I want to know what his athletic potential is. Evans is another guy where I want to see how he tests because I think he looks more athletic on tape than the current consensus. This is the first time where I will get to compare my own expectations of how guys will perform athletically vs. what happens. I can see how people get really into this. This is fun.

    Quick edit: Marcus Davenport top 10 and Josh Allen top 5 are two bandwagons I do not want anything to do with.
     
    #39 SMU_Sox, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  40. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
    I watched him again. I think this is a time where I am going to change my mind. I believe I had watched Smith and Leonard before switching to Vander Esch. I think this is a lesson learned on binge scouting.

    I viewed his tape vs Wyoming (Josh Allen) and Oregon (bowl game). Let me talk about his speed. Against Wyoming I saw him drop into coverage and then pick up a running back running across the middle at full steam. He was hip to hip with him and picked him up right away. Same game he, I think, partially blew his coverage on a wheel route and then catches up to the sprinting back ten yards later. However I have seen him lose foot races with other receivers (vs Virginia) and running backs. That’s somewhat expected though. Curious to see how he tests as he is fluid in motion so he can look like he is gliding at top speed.

    Coverage is a skill he has limited experience with. He drops back into zones. He often picks up running backs and he can sniff out and blowup wheel routes. He’s not much of a pass rusher. He can do well against a smaller RB but that’s not saying much. His tape against Oregon was a clinic in stopping the run. His processing speed was great. I didn’t originally watch his tape in any chronological order and when I looked at my notes per game I noticed a pattern. He got better as the season went on.

    Against the run he is patient, if he has responsibilities for a gap it is covered. He can also shoot gaps and get into the back field. He often can move blockers and disengage to make a tackle. Sometimes he can be over aggressive shooting downfield. He takes good angles and wraps up his tackles (good instincts). As a middle linebacker he often has to wait for the play to develop and then react - and if it is a run he usually plays it perfectly. There are times when an offensive lineman will muscle him completely out of the play. I think his hand usage also needs improvement especially when engaging with offensive linemen.

    I am not sure if he’s going to be ready to play for the Patriots in year one if they draft him because he needs to develop in coverage. He could take over for KVN in year two though and cover RBs and TEs in the future. I do not see him as a round 1 guy but...

    I think this draft is light on top end talent but loaded with day 2 talent. That and is an off-ball linebacker worth pick 31? (Depends on who obviously). Is Leighton Vander Esch that guy? I don’t think so. I admit I changed my mind on him but I see him as worthy of the 41/42 discussion but not 31.
     
  41. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,898
    I hope you guys are following @mascho on the Locked On Patriots Podcast. Today he had on Jon Ledyard (Locked On NFL Draft, NDT Scouting) and they talked edge guys. They seem to think Sam Hubbard of Ohio State is almost a perfect Belichick edge, like Ninkovich with a little more upside. High-motor guy who came in as a safety and polished his game in a short time. He played for Urban Meyer and Greg Schiano. And he was a big-time lacrosse player in high school (originally committed to Notre Dame to play lacrosse before changing his mind). If that doesn't sound like BB's wet dream, I don't know what does.

    EDIT: while I'm plugging Mark, I'll throw in a couple lines from Hubbard's scouting report from the upcoming Inside The Pylon Draft Guide, which is going to be even bigger and better than last year's. Whet your appetites a little (our scouts are higher on Hubbard's athleticism than Ledyard is) ...

    "Hubbard could play either 1-gapping 4-3 5-T, a LEO, or 3-4 OLB (SAM or WILL) effectively at the next level. ... I think his best fit is as a 3-4 SAM OLB in a Zone blitz heavy scheme, where his ability to set the edge, rush the passer, and stunt could be effectively utilized. His flexibility and explosiveness could be used to disrupt the passing game, while he also possesses the fluidity to drop into man or Zone coverage effectively."
     
    #41 Super Nomario, Feb 22, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  42. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

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    8,554

    I don't believe that the universe is going to allow someone with the name Leighton Vander Esch to be a star linebacker in the NFL. On a scale of 1 to Dont'a Hightower, that's a zero.
     
  43. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    7,052
    Sounds like he’d be smashing in a game of Polo.
     
  44. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    He'd pair with Kyle Van Noy
     
  45. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Excited about the ITP draft guide.

    Free agency and possible extensions will change this but I think the Pats might target a guard who can possibly play tackle this year in the draft. Mason will be a UFA in 2019 and Thuney is 2020. Pats picked them up in the 4th and 3rd round respectively.
    Saw this on NDT Scouting about Austin Corbett:

    Traits that stood out:

    His powerful hands
    He can get to the second level and clear out linebackers.

    He is mean/nasty and plays that way. He finishes every block even after the whistle. Lots of shoving and chirping after.

    Overall Crabbs summary:
    6'4'' 310.
     
  46. maj0915

    maj0915 lurker

    Messages:
    2
    I think it's a good idea to bring in a swing reserve on the interior of the offensive line, possibly around the third round. Personally, I'd be a little bit disappointed if the Patriots wanted to move on from Joe Thuney and/or Shaq Mason, as both of them have been solid in my opinion. However, if anyone goes down on the inside, we don't really have any depth to speak of, so a third or fourth-rounder makes sense as an investment there. Let's get someone in for Dante Scarnecchia to develop before he retires.
     
  47. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,898
    They seem to like Karras and he's been fine when he's had to play. I'm always on board for adding a G/T hybrid guy though. Corbett sounds a little like another Nevada lineman, Joel Bitonio, a draft binkie of mine from a few years back.
     
  48. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    37,747
    Pats were awarded pick R4 #136 as a compensatory selection. Picks are now 31, 43, 63, 95, 136, and 191.
     
  49. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
    Just spitballing a hot take here. Going to raise this up the old flag pole and see if anyone salutes.
    Even with cuts and 43M in cap space they have a lot of holes to fill. The Patriots do not typically draft for need but they are going to be bargain shopping for some positions. Day 2 of the draft guys have longer contracts than day 3 guys and UDFAs and are cheap. I’m jumping the gun a bit with my free agency expectations and might be pessimistic about that too. Seems to be more likely the case the Patriots rely more on guys they draft for frequent situational roles.There are day two slot receivers and receiving tight ends who could play a limited role day one. The same could be said for some off-ball linebackers and defensive backs.
    Thinking about this draft pre-combine and I see it being light on first round talent but with lots of day two and early day 3 guys. I remember the trade with the Vikings where we got their 2, 3, 4, and 7. That kind of magic probably won’t happen again but using drafteks draft value chart a depending on the team a combination of some or all of these may be fair for 31: always a 2, 3, and either 4 or 5. If you can do that trade this year do it because we are thin, aging, or unproven all over the roster by 2019 and that’s the sweet spot I think.
    Let’s say they pulled off a 2 and a 3. Three 2s, two 3s, and a 4th in this draft would let you add depth to six positions and would help replenish the roster.
     
  50. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Here's some players the Patriots have met with at the combine according to Kevin Duffy.
    Miami RB Mark Walton
    NC State RB Nyheim Hines
    Florida State OT Rick Leonard
    UCLA OT Kolton Miller
     

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