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2018 Dolphins: Back to Gasics

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by sodenj5, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

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    18,471
    Rules are simple guys. These team threats are inherently different than the game threads, or even the game ball/goat threads.

    When sodenj has posted crap on this thread, they have been deleted & warnings given (apologies for the times when they were missed).

    The end result we/I want, is for fans of other teams to come in to their respective team threads without having to deal with troll posts + feel good about participating the next time around.

    A lot of us remember when team threads were filled with snarky one-liners. I know I've been guilty of it on the older Jets threads. I believe the current (heavier-handed) approach is healthier for this board overall.
     
  2. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    We can gladly take this conversation to backwash, but to act as if someone trolling/poisoning game threads for several years wont bleed over into how people view them on the rest of the board - and how they will be engaged with - is naive at best.

    You cant isolate someone's actions that way. And to expect people to continue to turn the other cheek because someone found a loophole on how they can passive aggressively attack people for years on end? Bullshit.

    I hoped his tactless and tone deaf pre-emptive victory dance on Patriots fans when they were down 28-3 in the SB would have either taught him some humility or given him less slack to pull that shit around here. Disappointing results all the way around.
     
  3. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

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    I get the frustrations towards sodenj*. However, I'd be a lot more inclined towards your view if your original post was specifically directed at sodenj. It was not, which does the other Miami posters here a disservice.

    *My shortcoming may be that I tend not to participate in the game thread (due to severe delays in game feed versus posts/reactions). This, my sensitivity towards sodenj has been deadened to what happens here.

    P.S. Here's the link to the BBtL backwash thread: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/bbtl-again-and-again.8172/
     
    #403 SeoulSoxFan, Dec 9, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  4. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Congrats to the Miami fans that act with decorum. I just don’t understand why any one fan’s immediate reaction is not to celebrate with their friends but instead find it more important to go and rub it in other fans faces...especially since I’m fairly certain they wouldn’t do the same thing in person.

    BBtL is the only forum on the site that basically has as many or more threads for other teams than for the home team. Why can’t other team’s threads be separated into a sub forum? I’d post this in the backwash thread, but it’s obvious that it doesn’t get used very often and this seems to be a local forum issue.
     
  5. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    That's really what is the most galling about this. This is a Boston based website. So it stands to reason there would be more Boston fans here. It's beyond obnoxious for a Miami fan to openly troll the members of this website and, somehow, become a protected class at the same time.

    Show some tact. If you were at Yankee Stadium wearing Red Sox gear and the Sox pulled out a miracle win, you wouldn't go around the stadium kicking Yankee fans in the genitals. Yet that is what Soden has been doing for years. And if you don't deliver consequences to that person for years, he thinks he can get away with anything. And what he did yesterday in the game thread should undoubtedly result in him being gone.

    For him to then go ahead with a half hearted apology and then say, "I regret nothing," is a testament to his lack of character and belligerent attitude. He's a bad person. Only a bad person would do something like that. How is this even a question?
     
  6. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

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    18,471
    johnmd20, as you may already be aware, sodenj has been suspended. I do not consider him part of a protected class, even if the suspension was long over due.

    Time to carry on all related discussions in the backwash thread.
     
  7. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    For those who follow the Dolphins more than I do (admittedly a Pats fan), why doesn't Drake play more? Obviously the lateral play was kind of fluky but he's made several big plays this year and is easily the most athletic RB on the team. Attitude? Bad blocker? Gase being a Gore fan boy? I am honestly curious, especially given how he ended last year.
     
  8. dwainw

    dwainw Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    That's been an ongoing debate all season. It's become more glaring since the season-ending injuries to Jakeem Grant and Albert Wilson. Gase puts a lot of stock in the reliability of a downhill runner like Gore and seems to be quite deliberate about when and how he uses Drake. It's frustrating but credit where it's due, yesterday was the ideal outcome of that usage pattern.
     
  9. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    I was about to write that I guess fish fans should root for Seattle tonight as a loss would send the Vikings to 6-6-1 and likely eliminate them for playoffs. Except at6-6-1 THEY ARE STILL IN AS THE LAST WILD CARD TEAM!!!

    Amazing how mediocre the NFC is.
     
  10. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Watching Frank Gore run wild on the Pats yesterday got me thinking: Is he a hall of famer?

    The case FOR:
    Five-time pro-bowler. 1600+ yard runner in 2006. 4.4 ypc lifetime. 4th all-time in rushing yards, ahead of such players as Tomlinson, Bettis, Dickerson, Brown, Dorsett, etc. 5th all-time in yards from scrimmage.

    The case AGAINST:
    At no point did anyone ever think he was, in any season, the best player at his position. Even in his best year (2006), there were two guys who finished with more rushing yards: Tomlinson (1815) and Larry Johnson (1789). Never led the league in touchdowns or anything. Just a solid solid pro that played at a pretty high level for a really long time.

    I think he's in. And fairly easily. Because his longevity - and playing at a solid level that long - is unique.
     
  11. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Honest to God, my son asked me his earlier this year and I thought “no, he’s Harold Baines”.
     
  12. Mugsy's Jock

    Mugsy's Jock Longtime Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    In a world where a bunch of not-quite-elite QBs are sure to gain admittance because of counting stats (Stafford, Rivers) or stumbling into a championship or two (Eli, Ben), I think Frank deserves a bust.

    [Okay, I was probably unfair to Rivers there, but you get the point.]
     
  13. pdaj

    pdaj Member SoSH Member

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    Ditto. In addition to producing some of his very strong seasons, I think longevity in football, especially at the RB position, can't be overlooked. This is a guy who's held off a glutton of cheap, talented competition during a time when most teams are looking to go the Philip Lindsay route and spend elsewhere. Gore's story is even more remarkable when you consider that he had 2 ACL injuries/surgeries before his NFL career even began.

    So, what are we looking at today? The continuation of a fun playoff run or a Miami Miracle hangover?

    Edit: No Xavien Howard, as expected. Minkah vs. Diggs? This match-up, Theilen vs. McCain Rudolph vs. MIA LB are the obvious match-ups to watch when the Vikes have the ball. The more I look at this game, the more I'm shocked at how much Minnesota has underperformed this season.
     
    #413 pdaj, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  14. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    Hopefully that was the last time Ryan Tannehill ever starts for the Dolphins in Miami. It's time to move on. I don't care about Gase. The defense stinks, QB stinks and the o-line stinks. not sure Belichick could be consistently winning with that combo platter
     
  15. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    You guys have a very beautiful stadium with nice and helpful and communicative police officers, even if it's not in the best parts of the city. But I have to say, waaaaaay too much club and suite space and way too many employees for a team that perennially fails to make the playoffs.
     
  16. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    My initial reaction would be to say that Gore is not a hall of famer, but I’m someone that didn’t really think of Curtis Martin as a HOF’er...so I guess I’m a stickler MeeSeeks.
    He’ll likely get in and that’s cool for him.


    Sadly, not much to talk about from the actual game. Especially for me, I was with family and had the Red Zone on, Over the course of a couple hours I saw literally one play from the game.
    I honestly hope they lose next week. And that’s not hoping people will get fired, it’s simply about getting the best draft pick possible. Sucks but that’s where I’m at...pretty much the same place the needles been all decade.
     
  17. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    saw a stat on twitter yesterday that Tannehill was last in NFL at converting third downs either through the air or with his feet. it was like 21%. Top guys were in the mid-40s. Obviously distance to go has a lot to do with it, but also suggests that defenses know how to beat him when necessary (blitzing or whatever). HE is still awful at changing plays and blocking schemes at the line.

    whatever, there is almost no reason for him to be back next year regardless. Paying $24M+ to a mediocre QB is a sure-fire way to guarantee a seven-win peak in the NFL
     
  18. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    ^
    You made me curioua to check out some other splits and advanced numbers.
    A couple more of note that likley help define Tannehill’s mediocrity. He’s been considerably worse in the second half of games and also, on the road.
    But like you were getting at, there’s probably not much reason to delve too much more into it, Tannehill should be gone. I’d still argue he’s a “good” QB, likely even above average and I would not be surprised if he finds success in the right situation elsewhere, but it just makes no sense to bring him back with that contract and considering where the team/franchise stands.
     
  19. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    The problem is that the team just restructured his deal in March to push more guaranteed money into 2019/2020, so they only save half the money by cutting him (still $13.4 MM dead money; 2019 cap figure is $26.6 MM). It's not supposed to be a good QB draft (and a bunch of teams picking ahead of the Dolphins will also need QBs) so I don't know where that leaves Miami if they do move on.
     
  20. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    Nick Foles? Is he worth $20M+ and the cap hit by cutting tannehill? probably not. Jameis? yuck.

    They are not winning anything in 2019 regardless of who the QB is. You have to be thinking 2020 and 2021, right? get younger and cheaper in as many positions as possible, cut/trade anyone over 30 years old and hope a QB falls into your lap somehow. Meanwhile try to draft and build a real offensive line (not the piecemeal crap of the last dozen or so years ex a few games here or there)
     
  21. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    Looking back through the schedule is sobering. This team was really a few fluke plays away from a 3-5 win season. Maybe even worse. Thinking the miracle play vs the Pats, the Bears missed FG, Josh Allen just missing on the 4th down play, etc. You can probably throw the entirety of Week 1 and the wonky multiple delay game in there as well.

    I know you can say “that’s the NFL”, but winning close games and getting blown out in losses is generally a path to regression and misplaced optimism.
    And having said that, this probably should be like a 4 win team considering the injuries, so you could probably argue that they’ve overachieved...so I don’t know. Ross is going to have some decisions to make...
     
  22. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

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    Waiting to hear from Phins fans here about Gase getting fired. Color me at least a bit surprised.

    Time for a new thread too, given the current title.
     
  23. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    One rumor floating around out there: Sexy Rexy. LOL
     
  24. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    All I know is that the front office better be right behind him, because if not, I swear to God I’m done...
    If anything, if you forced me into an either/or I’d have taken Gase over the FO. I can’t fathom any logical argument that allows for Gase to be fired and the front office to come out unscathed.
    So for me, it’s wait and see for the moment until we see what else happens. If they are moving on from Tannehill and the FO and for once actually having a full reset then I’m fine with including Gase in that. If this turns out to be another half-measure with Gase being thrown under the bus then it’s just the latest example of ineptitude from this clown show franchise.
     
  25. luckiestman

    luckiestman Son of the Harpy SoSH Member

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    A big problem as a fan of a bad team is that you can’t fire ownership.
     
  26. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    apathy? tannenbaum has to go, too.

    ross wants to win, spends a ton of money. he just never has right head of football operations nor a good QB.
    Gase gone
    tannenbaum gone
    Tannehill gone - Gase was his only real supporter on the team. I'm guessing he has to be gone regardless of who the coach and GM are
     
  27. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    As frustrating as Ross can be, I honestly believe he wants the team to win (desperately) and acts with the best of intentions. His biggest sin has been prolonged loyalty and faith in questionable decision makers. If this was MLB the Dolphins would likely be amazing, because I really think Ross would be the guy to just spend as much as necessary to win...but that’s obviously not the case in the NFL and Ross is going to need to find some innovative and just better football minds to right the ship.
     
  28. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    at some point too, the players have to take some blame. culture has always sucked in Miami, right? guys like Wake and Stills and jones who have been there forever probably need to go. they won't be part of the team the next time their are good, so what does it matter?
     
  29. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not surprised to see Gase gone, I think his record and all the injuries sometimes hid a really bad process at work. The culture was a disaster, he alienated all of his most talented players, and he made just baffling decisions, in particular his insistence on not using all of the explosive young players the FO invested in with any consistency, preferring no-upside vets. The Drake/Gore thing was insane to me.

    I also think it's a good sign for the FO, that they weren't fooled by the 7-9 record, they had one of the easiest schedules in the league and ended up with the 3rd worst point differential, this was a bad team that only beat 2 good teams (NE, CHI) and both were weird last minute things, the rest were close wins over team that were either very bad (Jets x2, Bills, Oak) or whose QB got hurt (TEN).
     
  30. Reggie's Racquet

    Reggie's Racquet Member SoSH Member

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    5,117
    Oh please please please...a thousand times yes.
     
  31. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    Anyone want to try to convince me that this isn’t another misguided reshuffle and that this consistent shit show warrants any optimism and is worth any of my time?
     
  32. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    They're hiring a bridge coach who'll be around long enough to coincide with Belichick's retirement?
     
  33. mwonow

    mwonow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Rexy would be perfect, then - he'd be back on the market just as the last AFC door opened! :drums:
     
  34. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    10,992
    no

    7-9, 7-9, 6-10, 7-9, 8-8, 8-8 6-10, 10-6, 6-10, 7-9

    here's some optimism:
    https://overthecap.com/calculator/miami-dolphins/

    cutting Tannehill, Quinn, Parker and Amendola will save about $40M in cap space next year. Just find a QB and the set up for 2020 is actually a pretty good one for someone who wants to take over
     
  35. DavidTai

    DavidTai Member SoSH Member

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    I have to admit, it's really weird seeing Chris Grier taking over, mostly because I keep thinking "Oh hey, the guy who really botched a pretty good situation" and then having to remember this is his -son-.
     
  36. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    He drafted devonte Parker, Charles Harris, geisecki...all physical freaks who can’t play.

    At least minkah looks like a player
     
  37. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    245
    Long-suffering Dolphins fan here. I’ve been reluctant to contribute in these annual threads, because frankly, I haven’t had an optimistic thought about the team in at least 5 years.

    It sounds like Gase was abrasive and alienated the locker room, more or less forcing Ross’s hand. That’s a shame, because Gase seems like a good offensive strategist, which is where we’re seeing the most innovation/differentiation across the league. (It was a small miracle that Miami was even quasi-competitive the last two years with such poor QB and O-line play, not to mention an historically bad defense this year.)

    So firing Gase would not have been my preference. But if he needed to go, fine — I get it. What I can’t rationalize is Grier getting promoted in this mess. Why couldn’t Ross just clean house? Seems like yet another half measure. I know Grier is reportedly well regarded, but he’s been with the organization almost 20 years — and had significant input in the draft for more than 10. There is little for the organization to be proud of in that span from a player/personnel standpoint. Now it’s completely unfair to pin so much futility on Grier; I just find it hard to believe he’s such a visionary that the organization wouldn’t have benefited from a broad, competitive search.

    Ultimately, it’s just the same old Dolphins. And for the first time in a while, it’s not that the team is as hapless as the Jets and Bills — Miami is actually *worse* off, not having a QB.
     
  38. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You have to hope Grier is an apple who falls far from the tree. Is there a calling more nepotistic than football coaching — at least in terms of getting your foot in the door, that entry level job? I doubt it.

    The reassignment of the towel snapping slappy is not a surprise.
     
  39. sodenj5

    sodenj5 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Missed the news cycle by a day.

    Adam Gase getting fired is a joke. Look at this roster. Look at the things he had to deal with. Firing him is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    There are rumors that the relationship between he and Ross had soured. Ross also seemed to imply in his press conference that Gase wanted to win now (citing veteran signings like Sitton) whereas Ross wanted to build something sustainable (which lines up with the rumors that he advocated trading down and not drafting Minkah in 2018.)

    Believe it or not, Ross’s press conference gave me a little optimism. He said that what they’ve been doing hasn’t worked and he wants to build a sustainable core of players through the draft instead of continuing to sign aging veterans and free agents. That’s a good step in the right direction.

    The problem is Miami is about 5th or 6th in attractiveness for head coaches this year. They aren’t going to get a sexy hire like Gase 3 years ago.

    Vic Fangio is the top name I’ve seen floated linked to Miami. No question he’s a good coordinator, but a 60 year old defensive minded first time head coach makes me queasy.

    Believe it or not, a guy they should look at is Dan Campbell. If he’s able to get a good team of coordinators, I think he’s head coach material now. I think we all know 2019 is going to be a bumpy ride he seems like the guy you hire this year, let him take his lumps, and be prepared for 2020 when Miami goes all in for a franchise QB in the draft.
     
  40. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    "Mr Belichick, here's $75M. Please come fix this"
     
  41. dwainw

    dwainw Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I don't know, man. I agree that this was an insane season to try to fully adequately evaluate a coach, but there were enough red flags in my opinion to justify the move. In addition to tactical stuff and stubborn roster management, there were several indications that he never had a full handle on the clubhouse or respect of his players. Throw in:
    So they were barely playing at a .500 level before injuries really took their toll. The offense sucked in the 1st quarter, it sucked on 3rd down, the passing game went dormant for significant stretches, the defense was at best, inconsistent early on (again even before the barrage of injuries) and downright embarrassing down the stretch. That's a lot of suck that can be reasonably attributed to coaching. And then as you point out:
    So yeah, I think Gase had to go. Obviously, a comparable "shakeup" in the front office was also necessary. And now that yet again they're back to the old drawing board, like everybody else, I won't believe they're on the right course until the day they win a playoff game. And yet again it's time to re-adjust our timetables.
     
  42. rymflaherty

    rymflaherty Member SoSH Member

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    There actually is a path to turning this franchise around...not sure if they’ll be disciplined enough to do this, but maybe the “long term” comments are representive of it...and that is to ignore QB this year and be terrible.
    It would be the most Dolphins thing ever to settle for a QB in this crap draft, forcing the issue and making a trade to land a marginal talent. Instead they need to Ignore QB and win 2-4 games putting them in position to get a true elite talent in the loaded 2020 draft.
    Next year should be about cleaning up the roster - anyone that you don’t envision on the roster 3 years from now should be expendable. And building the lines - I know we cringe and have a form of PTSD with the Dolphins using high picks on lineman, but within my scenario building the lines should be a priority next year, so when you draft your franchise QB in 2020 you won’t get him killed.

    Not sure what Coach is going to sign up for that plan, but I really think that it’s the best one to realistically finally break the perpetual mediocrity. Granted there’s no guarantee it works. Maybe Tua or whoever busts or gets injured, but I’d rather crash and burn attempting the big swing then the bunts and band-aids this franchise has been known for.
     
  43. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    I’ve written this exact thing the last three offseasons, calling for them to tank. And every year they invest money in guys who will never be on the team when they might be elite. Stop gaps on the line. Aging DL. Etc.
    but it’s all noise until tannehill is gone.
    The new coach might be an indicator. A retread older guy means same old. A new younger guy might mean real change in philosophy
     
  44. sodenj5

    sodenj5 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    IMO I don’t see what the difference is if Tannehill is the QB or not in 2019.

    He has a cap hit of 26 million next year. If they cut him, they have 13 million in dead cap, plus they still need a QB. A guy like Bridgewater won’t take a one year deal and probably is looking for something in the range of 15 million per year.

    Best case scenario is they break even and have a different QB of the sake of having a different QB.

    The other option is they go full tank and start David Fales or Luke Falk.
     
  45. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    It doesn’t. They are non-competitive regardless unless Aaron Rodgers somehow gets to Miami. But I’d rather cut him, use the $13m to sign a bunch of uFA’s and draft a QB project and go with that.

    Maybe Carson Wentz. Lolol
     
  46. TomTerrific

    TomTerrific Member SoSH Member

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    Any Phins fans see this item?

    I must admit, it'd be a little sad seeing Flores within the division, but more power to him if he gets a chance like this.

    EDIT: Already being discussed in the Couching Carousel thread I see
     
  47. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Gentle reminder, you owe the Jimmy Fund some money.
     
  48. sodenj5

    sodenj5 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Fair play. Extra 7.5 to honor the line. Looks like that was the exact right number. They were at 7 wins and went 0-3 to close out the season.
     
  49. Rough Carrigan

    Rough Carrigan reasons within Reason Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Dolphins 2019: Go with the Flo!
     
  50. sodenj5

    sodenj5 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Dolphins 2019: Flo Rida
     

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