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2018 Cowboys: Turning over the same leaf

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by Bosoxen, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Oil Can Dan

    Oil Can Dan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That fucking sucks. I know it's the internet and that he's not going to see this but all the best to him. Dude is a warrior on the field. I hope to see him back in action at some point.
     
  2. budcrew08

    budcrew08 Member SoSH Member

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    This is the first year in a bit where I’m not even thinking about football all that much yet. Between Dez and Witten gone, and now Frederick and with how good the rest of the NFC East looks to be, I’m kind of out.
    Maybe this is how it is to be a Browns fan.
     
  3. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm guessing you missed the Dave Campo years? As bad as this year is shaping up to be, it's still light years better than that epic shitshow.
     
  4. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    And even the Dave campo years weren't like being the recent Browns. I actually felt bad for Campo during that time...not because I thought he was actually a good head coach, but because he got dealt a pretty shitty hand from Jerrah...he went all-in on the Troy Aikman resurgence prior to the 2000 season (making the idiotic Joey Galloway trade in the process) when he should have been rebuilding the defense and probably drafting Aikman's successor. By the time he realized his mistake, he had traded away our first rounders and was reaching for Quincy Carter in the 2nd round....what a shitshow.

    I guess the silver lining was that it caused him to swallow his pride a bit and hire Parcells to turn things around.
     
  5. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'll believe to my dying day that he hired Parcells to give the franchise legitimacy (even if only temporarily) and get him the votes for his new stadium.
     
  6. The Process

    The Process lurker

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    Not for nothing but the Steve Pelluer era wasn't particularly great either.
     
  7. Michelle34B

    Michelle34B lurker

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    Martin and Frederick are hurt this year, and Smith ended last year on IR.

    He seemed to get it from day one and just kept dominating. I agree.
     
  8. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    We had an AHA silent auction today. They had tons of NFL gear including a Gronk autographed helm I lost and of course loads of Cowboys autographed memorabilia. I didn't see the final outcome but you know the only item without a single bid when I left with about 10 minutes to go? A Jerry Jones autographed ball. Even for charity...
     
  9. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No, it wasn't but at least it was mercifully short. At least in terms of team futility. Still nothing like that run of 5-11 seasons, though. The franchise hadn't seen anything like that since its first five years of existence.

    And now we have next year's thread title: "2019 Cowboys: At least we're not the Browns".
     
  10. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Dan Bailey was cut
     
  11. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    That's a surprise, right? He was awesome last year I thought. Who beat him out?
     
  12. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Brett Maher. He made a 57 yarder the other night against Houston.
     
  13. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    The Cowboys Over/Under Win Total is still 8 1/2.

    Fading the public in the NFL has historically been a massive +EV play. I really want some people to come in here or on other boars and tell me that they see the Cowboys as a playoff team so I can pummel the Under otherwise I refuse to be on the suckers side. This number seems crazy to me.

    Disclosure: Indianapolis Over 6 1/2 has been my only Win Total play thus far.
     
  14. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The only way this team is a playoff team is if EVERYTHING breaks their way. Since that's not even remotely likely, no one in their right mind thinks that's happening. You take the under. No question.
     
  15. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Schefter tweeted that Dallas offered Seattle a 2nd round pick for Earl Thomas and that Seattle wasn't interested.
     
  16. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Call me crazy but I think they're getting closer to a deal.
     
  17. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I've seen enough. Prescott is definitely not the answer. He can't hit the broad side of a fucking aircraft carrier. They're gonna need to draft a QB in 2019 or else they'll be doing the exact opposite of the Romo years and waste the prime seasons of the offensive line.
     
  18. maufman

    maufman Anderson Cooper x Mr. Rogers Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    Some of this might be Carolina being better than expected (Ron Rivera’s teams always play good D), but I think you’re right about Prescott.
     
  19. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I credit the defense for shutting down the run game and making things uncomfortable but he's missing wide open receivers even when there's no pressure anywhere nearby. The problem today is that he's adding poor decision making to his lack of accuracy. And that's why they haven't taken a single snap on the plus side of the 50.
     
  20. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Looks like a 3-13 team at best.
     
  21. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'll never understand going for it on 4th and 10 at midfield with 2:30 left and 3 timeouts. Even with an average QB the odds on that decision paying off are fucking dreadful. Garrett is fucking awful.
     
  22. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    Going for it seemed like the right decision to me at the time, but I haven't checked the numbers or anything.
     
  23. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    How so? At what point during that game did the offense show any ability to gain the necessary yardage, let alone in such a desperate situation? As much as I, and we, have dumped on the defense I had far more faith that the defense would get the job done and get them the ball back at around the same spot on the field with just under two minutes left. Indeed, that's what would have happened but because they went for it and failed, they ended up losing 30 yards of field position. It's game over at that point.

    I'm not as down on the team as @Greg29fan is but I'm thinking 8-8 is their ceiling. Maybe that will be adjusted up a little if Frederick returns before Week 8 but if not, I wouldn't be surprised to see them finish 6-10. And go figure it looks like it would be the defense carrying them to that record (narrator, "The defense, in fact, imploded in spectacular fashion when Sean Lee's inevitable injury occurred").
     
  24. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    Going for it there, you have the chance that you convert (which I agree, is not likely), which is obviously the best of all possible scenarios. And if you can convert and score, you also have the chance to potentially fail at the two point conversion and still attempt an onside kick. And if you don't convert, you still likely have another possession - which Dallas did, with enough time to score. They had a couple different paths to tying the game up, none of them good.

    If they punt, they really only have one path - immediate stop on D, march down the field on O, convert the two-pointer.

    The O was terrible but the O was going to have to do something to win, regardless. None of these were good paths to victory. And FWIW, they got a WR open, Prescott was just a little late and high with it.
     
  25. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    And therein lies the flaw with the plan. Your calculus completely falls apart when you factor in the lack of quality at QB. The fact that the plan was dependent on that QB at that point in time gaining the necessary 10 yards is why I disagreed with the decision. It was a near certainty that they would fail to get the first down. In fact, one could argue - which I would - that they wouldn't have even been in that position had Prescott managed to keep his head out of his own ass for more than 5 minutes.

    If I'd had any faith in their ability to convert that first down, I'd wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. But the fact that I had none is why I disagreed with that decision. And that's why I made my initial comment about Prescott. It's becoming increasingly clear that he's never going to re-capture his 2016 form. Circumstances need to be far too close to perfect in order for him to reach that level again. And we all know that's not really this team's M.O.
     
  26. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    At that point in the game, there is no tactic that is going to avoid Prescott / the passing offense having to make plays. His / its struggles are a problem no matter what path you take. You could even argue the pass game woes point towards going for it, because the only way you can use the run game to advance the ball is if you convert the 4th and 10 and have the ball at the ~35 with timeouts. If you punt, get a three-and-out, and get the ball back at midfield with no timeouts, you're gonna have to throw; there's no way around it. There were no good options.
     
  27. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    On that we certainly agree.
     
  28. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Week 2 vs. Giants will be interesting. The loser certainly isn't eliminated from playoff contention or anything but they'll be in trouble. The Cowboys have road game in Seattle in Week 3, which is never easy, and then a home game against Detroit. After that, you've got a road game against the Texans, home against the Jags (no idea how they score against that D), and road game in Washington. Things could spiral away quickly if the Giants game goes badly.
     
  29. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    The thing about Dak is he wasn't good in college, he had flashes but he couldn't sustain his accuracy over any stretch.
    I didn't see any major adjustments in his rookie season but I was open to something having been coached.
    But as I said then I was more confused than a believer in Dak
    I don't think he's as bad as his worst patches but he's not reliable. Surrounding him with this level of receiving talent is pretty ridiculous too. You not giving him much.

    I think he's a mechanical change and belief from being that first season guy, but if he gets down on himself and the fans do too it will be hard.
    I suspect he's a solid backup you need to have in today's NFL. With still lottery ticket luck upside.

    But yeah as your starter ....

    People want to act like the cowboys can be a D and run team, but I'm far from sold the D is close to that level.

    Still think they are better than the Giants
     
  30. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I think the Cowboys' defense is pretty solid but it's not good enough to sustain a putrid offense like Jacksonville's can. There isn't a single pass catcher on the team that gives defensive coordinators any kind of heartburn.

    Allen Hurns
    Terrence Williams
    Michael Gallup
    Cole Beasley
    Tavon Austin
    Geoff Swaim

    You need a Brady or Rodgers to turn that collection of meh into a productive unit. And since Dak is light years away from that kind of production, defenses simply just need to load the box to stop Zeke and dare Dak to beat them, which he can't because his WRs are JAGs. Given the strength of the OL, was drafting a G in Round 2 the right move? Courtland Sutton would have been a good fit there. Would have needed to trade up though.
     
  31. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    The bolded is exactly right.
     
  32. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    So that Vander Esch kid might be able to play after all. He didn't play very much but he was all over the place, recording seven tackles. The most encouraging part, though, is that he seemed to be the only player on the defense who didn't have trouble tackling Barkley. A sure tackler not named Lee is something the defense desperately needs. But I'm sure he's not quite ready yet to deal with an NFL run game so he'll likely be a situational player for the time being.

    That's all I've got. Last night was better (kind of hard not to improve over that hot mess in Carolina) but they didn't exactly blow out a team with no offensive line and a nearly washed up statue QB. The schedule hasn't even begun to get difficult so you won't hear me crowing about them being in first place.
     
  33. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    They stumbled into what they should be doing on offense on that drive in the fourth quarter. A lot of RPO stuff with Dak, getting Tavon Austin the ball, and riding Zeke. It's not complicated.
     
  34. EP Sox Fan

    EP Sox Fan Member SoSH Member

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    Don't tell that to Scott Linehan.

    Will be interesting to see how teams scheme for that. The RPOs worked so well because the Giants defenders had very little discipline. The offense looked much improved from last week's shitshow but it was still pretty pedestrian. Take away the long pass to Austin (which was a dime) and Dak doesn't break 100 yards passing. That's just not going to be good enough. Unless he shows enough to keep defenses honest, Zeke is going to see 8 man fronts all game long.

    The defense was very good save for the blown coverage on Engram's TD. Having Irving and Gregory back and up to full speed (and hopefully Collins recovers quickly) and the D line has the potential to make opposing QBs very jumpy. Jones and Awuzie were also pretty solid as well. That said, I agree with the poster above that it is not going to be good enough to carry a pedestrian offense as the Jags D did last season. Hopefully Linehan figures out that Dak is at his best running the RPOs and a non-traditional offense.
     
  35. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The defense may be legit if they can stay healthy. But I agree they aren't quite good enough to carry a lower third offense...they need to get the offense at least to average. I think they can get there but they really need to run the offense through Zeke and pick their spots with Dak enough to keep the defenses honest. Dak himself also needs to play better...to his credit, he was def better than week 1 but he still missed a couple key throws, including a wide open TD to Gathers on a drive they ended up settling for a FG on. He's got to make those throws if they want the offense to run adequately.
     
  36. The Process

    The Process lurker

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    Given the WR we have, how do we not make a better offer than the Pats for Josh Gordon. If I've learned anything from watching the Cowboys over the years, it's Josh Gordon was born to be a Cowboy!
     
  37. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It's time to face the facts: we are re-living the Quincy Carter days. Not since the days of Carter do I recall a Cowboys QB being so woefully inaccurate. Sure, Prescott has way more between the ears than Carter did but he is so far doing less with more. Toss even an average QB on this team and they're at least 2-1 (I'd say 3-0 but the stupid penalties and that putrid second quarter by the defense could have still been too much to overcome today).

    Dak gotta go. And he can take Garrett with him while we're at it. This team continues to be one of the dumbest in the league under his watch.
     
  38. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Tyron Smith also looks done, likely from his back and other assorted injuries. He got his ass whupped yesterday.
     
  39. Oil Can Dan

    Oil Can Dan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  40. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Lee injured is turning over the same leaf, indeed.
     
  41. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It really is the same shit with this team every year. The only thing different with the Lee injury is that they actually have depth behind him now. Though it remains to be seen how Vander Esch plays with increased exposure and there's zero depth at the other linebacker positions, so they're still teetering right on the edge of mediocrity and disaster.

    The reason nothing ever changes with this team is because of the same shitty roster management and bad coaching. Things have gotten slightly better with the former but the latter might actually be getting worse so the net result is basically the same.

    Edit: And seemingly right on cue, good ol' Jerry expresses support for the roster and the coaching staff. Further proving the point that he doesn't know shit.
     
    #141 Bosoxen, Sep 25, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  42. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Basically a must-win game.

    The decline of the offense even from the first half of last season is breathtaking, nevermind 2016. Hard to really reconcile it easily. I'm sure it's a combo of small samples, Dak not having as many weapons, Frederick being out, etc...but damn.
     
  43. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Going 8-0 at home but 0-8 on the road would be a new way to go 8-8
     
  44. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Won’t be easy with the Jags coming to town next. I have no idea how the Cowboys will move the ball against that defense.
     
  45. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Came across a hard to believe stat. Dallas hasn't had a 1000 yard receiver since Dez in 2014. In this age of passing and QB protection, that's kind of insane. Dak is obviously having some issues, but it would help if he had some weapons around.

    Meanwhile, Jerry Jones is barking about everything. I suggest he take a look in the mirror, as Dallas has one of the worst coaches in the NFL.
     
  46. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    They're one of four teams who haven't had a 1000-yard receiver since 2014; Chicago, San Francisco, and Philadelphia are the others.
     
  47. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't buy the excuse that he's struggling because of the receivers. Yes, the lack of talent in that group isn't helping but that is merely exacerbating the problem, not causing it. The book is out on Prescott: he's indecisive and inaccurate. You could add Julio Jones to this roster and I can guarantee you he wouldn't eclipse 1000 yards with this QB - and, it needs to be pointed out, this scheme. Prescott is not the type of QB who can "throw a WR open" nor is he capable of throwing precise timing routes. His throws are late (or very late) more often than not and, even on those rare occasions one of his receivers gets open, allows the defender enough time to recover and affect the play. And then, as if to rub salt in the wound, his throws are not so rarely several yards off the mark.

    But it's the throws in the dirt that really get my goat. When he started doing that was when he started to remind me of Quincy Carter. I even made that point in this very thread. And then, as if to reinforce my point, the fact that he had a sub-200 yard game streak was brought up in either the NY or Seattle game. That streak finally ended at five when he threw for over 200 against Detroit but that kind of discussion is also reminiscent of Quincy Carter. In fact, when Carter was the QB here in Dallas, that was a running joke among local media types.

    Away from the emotion of the game thread (apologies to @Deathofthebambino for our little exchange Sunday night) and 100% sober, I am comfortable saying with absolute certainty that Dak Prescott is not an NFL quarterback. The Cowboys will need to look long and hard in the offseason at not only revamping their WR corps but also making a change at QB. Even if it's a stopgap solution like an Alex Smith type. The same Alex Smith who, despite a similarly unremarkable WR corps, is producing solidly average numbers this season.
    I know this is what you're getting at but it needs to be stated explicitly, to avoid confusion: they also have the worst GM. Which, of course, means nothing is going to change and we'll see a similarly titled thread for next season.
     
  48. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The Dallas Cowboys 2019: Same As It Ever Was
     
  49. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    2019 Cowboys: As Effective As Jason Garrett's Clapping
     
  50. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Thoughts on the 4th and 1 punt in OT? I thought they absolutely should have gone for it. Power running team with a great RB and mobile QB. Texans' defense was huffing and puffing.
     

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