He's certainly fun to watch, I'll give him that. He used to be pretty boring. Now it's an adventure.
2017 PGA Tour
- Thread starter TFP
- Start date
That was a really awesome final 10 holes. That was just exciting and intense. Even the Masters didn't have that. Except that it was The Masters.
10 wins before the age of 24. Didn't Sergio just win his 10th, at age 38? That's how hard it is to win that often. People may not like, which isn't something I understand, but he is the real deal. The game needed a new face, and we could have done a lot worse than Spieth in that respect. With him, Day, Dustin and Rory all struggling recently, this season hasn't felt as exciting as the last couple have...Hopefully, with Rory putting well today, and Spieth winning, we'll at least start seeing a couple of them at the top of the leaderboards again, especially come British time.
Spieth's a nice enough kid, and had a great run a couple of years ago, but he's not the face of golf. Five straight majors without a top 10 is not something that I think any of the greats of golf, and not even the greats of today experienced in their prime.
Spieth is not yet 24. I think a case can be made that he's not even in his prime. The 5 straight majors without a top 10 I guess is a knock but he has a T13 and T11 in there so it's not like it is MC's. A shot or 2 and he's got 2 top 10's.
I get why some people don't like him, but I can't really see an argument for him not being among the games elite. He's the only player on tour with multiple wins in each of the last 3 seasons. 10 wins before the age of 24. He had a historically great 2015, but he's not some flash in the pan. He's known for his putter, but his ball striking is underrated. 40th this season in putting, 6th in strokes gained tee-to-green and 4th in GIR. There's more to his game than knocking in 25 footers all day.
I don't think there is a singular face of the game right now, but he's certainly among the group of young stars where he or someone else could rise and become the face of golf.
I guess I'm using prime in the golf sense, rather than the typical athletic sense. In my view, if you're on the good side of say 30, and you've already won two majors, it's hard to argue your prime hasn't started. Thus, Tiger's prime certainly had begun by the time he won the PGA at Medinah, and it lasted at least through his win at Torrey Pines in 2008. But it's not really that important. I'm just saying that prime or not, it's very unusual for multiple major winners to ever experience a stretch of non-contention like that between major wins. And I do of course expect him to win again. Because yes, he's certainly one of the 4 or 5 best golfers in the world.
I just wouldn't say he's at the level of the face of golf right now, when DJ's #1 in the world, Rory's got twice as many majors and three times as many Twitter followers, and Rickie's got Allison Stokke.
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Not sure I've ever seen a deeper cherry pick than this. From the 2015 US Open through the last Major, these are Rory's finishes:
15 US Open: 9th
15 PGA: 17th
16 Masters: Missed Cut
16 US Open: Missed Cut
16 British: 5th
16 PGA: Missed Cut
17 Masters: 9th
17 US Open: Missed Cut
Let me start by asking if you are you making the argument that this stretch of golf is better than the recent 5 straight finishes Spieth has had outside the top 10? Rory has missed half the cuts going back almost 2 years in Majors. Just because he happened to squeak in a 5th place finish in a British can't possibly make this stretch better than Spieth's recent "slump."
And let's talk about your definition of "in contention." Rory hasn't been "in contention" in any of these Majors. He literally backdoored his way into the top 10's on Sunday in each of the three top 10's on that list.
In the 2015 US Open, he shot a 66 on Sunday to get himself into 9th place (even par for the tournament), which was still 5 strokes behind Spieth, the winner.
In the 2016 British, he shot 67 on Sunday to get to -4 for the tournament, and a 5th place finish, 16 shots behind the winner, Henrik Stenson. 16!!!
In the 2017 Masters, he shot 69 on Sunday to get -3 for the tournament, and a 9th place finish, 6 shots behind Sergio.
Basically, immediately following his best round in each of the three Majors that he finished with a top 10, Rory has never been closer than 5 shots behind the leaders. Let's be clear here, Rory McIlroy has not been "in contention" in a Major since he won the PGA in 2014. He's managed to have a decent round on Sunday, when he's actually still playing on the weekend, but only when he's usually a dozen shots out of the lead and all the pressure is off. If you think Spieth is the only "great" to have a "slump" like the one he's having now, you aren't looking deep enough into the numbers.
I would imagine if given the choice between Spieth or Rory, TV execs would tell you they'd rather have Spieth in the field. Rory has twice the Majors because he's 5 years older, or an extra 20 Major starts in his "prime" years. If Spieth doesn't have as many, if not more, Major wins than Rory has at the age of 28, I would be shocked. If Spieth isn't the current face of the game, and it sure as hell ain't Rory, who is it? DJ? No way. I'll bet most non golf fans couldn't even pick DJ out of a lineup. I can't say that about Spieth. He's the golden child on the Golf Network and ESPN's coverage of every event he's in. Even when he's not in contention, he gets the Tiger treatment on Sportscenter where they still show his highlights and discuss his round. Everyone else just gets their score at the bottom of the leaderboard under "other notables."
Great post Death. Spieth is gigantic in golf right now. So is Rory, but his game has been in shambles for a few years now.
I really wasn't trying to cherry pick anything. I appreciate that you think Top 10 is arbitrary, but it's a widely-used statistic, and one that is officially kept by the PGA Tour. Feel free to disregard it; I just found it notable. Your mileage may vary.
As for Rory, I don't think I said anything about him, other than the fact he has 4 majors and three times as many Twitter followers. These are pretty unassailable facts, unlike the claim that he only "has twice the Majors because he's 5 years older," which is wrong on a couple of counts. First, he's less than 4 years, 3 months older. Second, as you've noted, he's had those 4 majors for a couple of years. So he got his 4th at the age of 25 and 3 months. Which means for Spieth to match him, he'd have to win 2 of the next 6 majors he plays in. I can't imagine you'd want to bet on that outcome. You question about whether Rory's MC, 5th, MC, 9th, MC is a better stretch of golf than Jordan's 37th, 30th, 13th, 11th, 35th? I would probably agree with you and say not; but I'm not sure it's beyond dispute. For example, as far as the World Rankings are concerned, Rory's stretch is better. But anyway, the guy's been working through some injuries and hasn't played particularly well, but he's still managed to Top 10 5 of the 9 majors since his last win. (Jack went 12 majors without a win at around the same age, with 7 top 10s). I hope Spieth manages to stay mostly injury free for his whole career, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Also, I can't agree that Rory's game has been in shambles for a few years now. How quickly we forget he just won the FedEx Cup by winning twice in three weeks including the Tour Championship. He has 3 wins and 12 top 10s in his last 20 starts. Jordan also has 3 wins (over worse fields in less important tournaments on average) and only 8 top 10s in his last 20. So if Rory's game is in a shambles, I guess they both are.
As for Rory, I don't think I said anything about him, other than the fact he has 4 majors and three times as many Twitter followers. These are pretty unassailable facts, unlike the claim that he only "has twice the Majors because he's 5 years older," which is wrong on a couple of counts. First, he's less than 4 years, 3 months older. Second, as you've noted, he's had those 4 majors for a couple of years. So he got his 4th at the age of 25 and 3 months. Which means for Spieth to match him, he'd have to win 2 of the next 6 majors he plays in. I can't imagine you'd want to bet on that outcome. You question about whether Rory's MC, 5th, MC, 9th, MC is a better stretch of golf than Jordan's 37th, 30th, 13th, 11th, 35th? I would probably agree with you and say not; but I'm not sure it's beyond dispute. For example, as far as the World Rankings are concerned, Rory's stretch is better. But anyway, the guy's been working through some injuries and hasn't played particularly well, but he's still managed to Top 10 5 of the 9 majors since his last win. (Jack went 12 majors without a win at around the same age, with 7 top 10s). I hope Spieth manages to stay mostly injury free for his whole career, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Also, I can't agree that Rory's game has been in shambles for a few years now. How quickly we forget he just won the FedEx Cup by winning twice in three weeks including the Tour Championship. He has 3 wins and 12 top 10s in his last 20 starts. Jordan also has 3 wins (over worse fields in less important tournaments on average) and only 8 top 10s in his last 20. So if Rory's game is in a shambles, I guess they both are.
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No, what you said was "Five straight majors without a top 10 is not something that I think any of the greats of golf, and not even the greats of today experienced in their prime."
What I'm saying is that if you consider Rory a "great of today," then top 10 finishes is pretty useless in this context. Jordan Spieth has actually gone into the final round with a chance of winning a Major during that stretch and fell apart on Sunday. Since 2014, Rory hasn't played within what, 10 groups, of the final group on a Sunday? He literally hasn't been within 5 shots of the lead on the weekend, in any major in almost 3 years. I didn't say Rory's game was in shambles, but if you're going to say Spieth is going through some epic slump that none of the greats have ever gone through, and base it solely on top 10 finishes in five majors, then I'm going to say that I can't remember a "great" that didn't get within 5 shots of the lead in a Major in almost three years, other than Rory. And I'm sure if you asked both of them "Would you rather go into Sunday with a chance to win and end up finishing 11th, or go into Sunday 10+ shots back but have a good round and finish 9th," I would certainly bet that both of them would choose the former.
No, what you said was, "If Spieth isn't the face of the game, and it sure as hell ain't Rory, then who is it?"
What I'm saying is, I don't think it's Spieth. And I think the 28 year-old with 4 majors, 100 weeks spent at #1 in the world, the current FedEx Cup, the only golfer in the Top 10 in the Forbes athlete list, 3 million+ Twitter followers, and the literal face of the PGA Tour's video game just might be.
You can agree or disagree, but getting all indignant about such an opinion is silly.
I don't have a problem with your opinion that Spieth is not the face of the game. I disagreed with your assertion that Spieth is the only of "today's greats" to have had a stretch like his last five majors, because the reality is Spieth's last five majors have been better than Rory's last 5 (last 8) by virtually every metric, except the one you chose. If you want to argue that Twitter followers and video game sponsorships make Rory the true face of the game, I've got no problem with that except to say that I can't think of a sport on Earth whose core fan base are less interested in Twitter and video games than golf fans.
Then it's weird that you brought up "non golf fans" when explaining why DJ is not the face of golf.
You win though, carry on.
Seems like the answer right now is there is no alpha dog in the golf world. Speith and DJ are probably in reality the top of the heap with Rory living off reputation a little bit more but overall they're kind of a tri-face of the game. Speith maybe more so in the US and Rory internationally. You know who is not in this conversation anymore? Jason Day.
This is probably not a big revelation to the diehards in this thread, but if you are jonesing for The Open and want a good links golf fix with a strong field (albeit with no American stars), the Irish Open from Portstewart is on Golf Channel now (and the next 3 mornings), and it has the feel of a pretty big time event. Conditions seem to be quite soft (93 players under par, leaders at -7), and the early leaderboard might not excite you at the top, but plenty of familiar names not far back (Rose, GMac, Harrington, Lowry, Rahm, Fitzpatrick). Rory's putter struggles have not abated, as he remains Even through 8 despite some promising play tee to green.
Some detail on the move to NBC.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/mackay-joins-golf-channel-course-reporter/
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/mackay-joins-golf-channel-course-reporter/
Dan is a really good interviewer and doesn't shy away from tough questions. He didn't let Phil avoid the elephant in the room.
Been a tough year to this point for Rob (except for his top 10 in the PGA event at Pebble which basically paid his bills for the year), but he's -10 (tied for 3rd) going into the weekend in the Web.com event, one shot back of the leaders. Weekends, and particularly, back 9's, have not been good to him lately, so let's hope he doesn't crash and burn, and can get a good finish. He really needs to start climbing up the money list if he wants to get his Tour card back next year.
Web.com event live on Golf Channel right now. Unfortunately, just as they cut in, they showed Rob 3 putt from about 20 feet. He just missed a 6-7 footer for eagle too, after firing a dart on his 2nd shot. He's -1 for the day, sitting around 4th or 5th. Chesson Hadley and Beau Hossler are both going off today in the same group, at -7 and -8 for the round, so they are about 3-4 shots ahead of Rob, who is at -11. Anything can happen though. Last year's winner shot 63 on Sunday on this course. A top 5 would be huge.
After going Even through the first 7 holes, Rob just birdied 8,9 and 10 to get to -14 and 3 back of the lead. I believe #11 is a par 5, but I'm not sure. Keep going Rob.
He shoots -4, 68 today, and gets a tie for 7th. Very good finish, and will probably climb him well into the top 75 on the money list (he was 84 coming in). But what could have been. He missed a short birdie putt on 18 that would have given him a tie for 5th. Not to mention the bunny he missed for par yesterday, and a short eagle putt...Anyway, got to be happy with the result. I'm sure he would have taken it if someone asked him on Wednesday. His brother was on the bag this week, and was on the bag for him at Pebble. Starting to think he should quit his full time job and join Rob.
Is Rob's brother on the bag again this week?
Rob is -13 (T3) going into the weekend at the web.com stop in Utah.
Rob is -13 (T3) going into the weekend at the web.com stop in Utah.
Not this week, unfortunately. I talked to his brother Sunday after they finished last week, and he said if Rob kept playing like he did last week, he'll get his Tour card back. Well, through these first two rounds (66, 63), I'd say he's right. But again, it's all about the weekend. This course is certainly playing easy, with 19 guys at -10 or better through 2 rounds. He's going to have to keep making birdies if he wants to get another top 10...
Live coverage on the Golf Channel now. Rob is -3 thru 6 holes, tied for 2nd. He just hit his tee shot on the 200 yard par 3 6th to 2 feet, and the announcer said he's been peppering the flag sticks on every hole so far.
Gonna be a long wait until he tees off tomorrow, but should have full final round coverage being out in Utah. He'll tee off sometime after 6:00 p.m.. Eastern.
Holy shit, Rob just holed out for Eagle at #1, to go to -20, and now has a 2 shot lead. Come on Rob...
Par on 3. He currently has a 3 shot lead on everyone that is still on course. Technically, a 1 shot lead, but the guy in 2nd is already finished for the day.
Bryson DeChambeau caught fire on the back 9, and birdied 18 to get into the clubhouse at -18. Rodgers was sitting at -18 with the par 5 17th in front of him, and made bogey, so now DeChambeau has the lead. Rodgers needs a birdie to tie. Would be a massive win for Bryson.
