2017 Patriots Defense

[Greekca]

Obviously, the first game of the season was a historically dismal performance by the New England Patriots defense. However, in no way is the season doomed after only one loss and they have plenty of time to right the ship. The question now is: can they? With Drew Brees and the Saints up next, the pressure is on Belichick and Patricia to fix some flaws and fix them quick.

Without the benefit of film review, here are some thoughts on each of the position groups and snap counts provided via Mike Reiss: http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4805578/mike-gillislees-usage-shows-how-hes-patriots-top-option-as-power-rb

DEFENSIVE END
Trey Flowers – 69
Dont’a Hightower – 35
Cassius Marsh – 24
Deatrick Wise – 18

Trey Flowers is obviously the stud of the group. He is the only semblance of a pass rusher the Patriots have and he seems to be a pretty good one. With his 2 sacks last night, he has 11.5 sacks in his last 13 games. The big story with this unit is the presence of Dont'a Hightower at Rob Ninkovich's old defensive end spot. The reasoning for the move seems to one based on need rather than Belichick's typical "putting a player in the best position to succeed". To me, Hightower excels as a blitzer where he can time his blitz, win one on one matchups with RBs, or use leverage against weak OGs. The last guy I want him to match up against is an OT who is most likely to have the athleticism and power to neutralize Hightower's rush.

A positive step in solving the issues of the front 7 would be for someone to step up and allow the Patriots to move Hightower back to his usual job. As we saw last night, that guy is not going to be Cassius Marsh. Marsh seems more like your pin the ears back and rush the passer guy than an every down guy. That puts the pressure on Wise to develop quickly. The book on him out of Arkansas was that he was somewhat of a development guy, so it will be have to be seen whether he can develop quickly enough to help. Ninkovich on speed dial?

DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Malcom Brown – 49
Alan Branch – 42
Lawrence Guy – 26
Adam Butler – 21
Vincent Valentine – 0 (injured)

Interior line play is always tough to evaluate using television camera angles. The Patriots gap control scheme makes it even more difficult as you don't know what each player's responsibility was on a play. With that said, the Chiefs seemed to exploit a weakness in the interior with those shovel passes to Kelce that seemed to pick up 7-8 yards every time they ran it. I thought one bright spot was the play of Adam Butler. They seemed to keep it simple for him and only brought him in on obvious passing plays, but he was able to generate some pressure.

As expected, this position seems to be one of the strongest with a combination of talent and depth.

LINEBACKER
Kyle Van Noy – 69
Elandon Roberts – 9
David Harris – 2
Marquis Flowers – 0 (special teams)
Harvey Langhi – 0 (healthy scratch)
Shea McClellin – 0 (injured, IR)

Obviously from the snap counts, this was not a heavy use game for this group. The Patriots seemed to choose to match up with the Chiefs TEs and RBs with safeties rather than linebackers. However, that might have just been a product of the fact that the Patriots really only have one LB (Van Noy) who can do anything in coverage. Roberts and Harris are more known for their downhill play than coverage abilities.

Moving Hightower back to this group would provide an immediate upgrade, but would not solve the glaring need of a LB that can cover in space. One of Van Noy's biggest criticisms with the Lions was his lack of coverage ability, so when he is your best guy you are in trouble. Expect teams to continue to exploit this weakness until the Patriots find an internal option or bring one off the street.

CORNERBACK
Stephon Gilmore – 69
Malcolm Butler – 69
Eric Rowe – 37
Jonathan Jones – 3
Johnson Bandemosi – 0 (special teams)

This group seemed to perform well despite the ultimate result. Gilmore seemed to be given the Revis treatment where he was left on an island. Unclear if the big play to Hill was blown coverage by Gilmore or great play design where the safety was left covering 2 guys and picked the wrong one. I expect he will be matched up one on one with Michael Thomas next week. Butler's issues from the preseason seemed to carry over to the regular season where he can't seem to turn his head around quick enough. It has always seemed to me that Belichick has this view that Butler has a fatal flaw that keeps him from the upper echelon of CBs. Somewhat similar to Belichick's candid comment about Arrington being a streaky player.

This group should improve with reps and better communication in the defensive backfield.

SAFETY
Devin McCourty – 68
Duron Harmon – 63
Patrick Chung – 45
Jordan Richards – 42
Nate Ebner – 0 (special teams, injured)
Brandon King – 0 (special teams)

Is the Ron Burton Award the equivalent of immunity on the Patriots roster? Jordan Richards is awful and continued to be awful last night. In the first half, he was clearly the weak link the Chiefs chose to exploit. They seemed to do a good job of losing him pre-snap with motion across the alignment and then losing him after the snap by running crossing routes. He simply couldn't keep up. Unfortunately, either a LB is going to have to step up and prove they can cover, or Richards will need to be replaced with another safety. Given the fact the Patriots are currently carrying 2 safeties on the practice squad tells me they are aware of this weakness.

The problems with the usual 3 safeties (McCourty, Chung, and Harmon) appeared to be scheme based. Very poor game plan on the back end from Belichick and Patricia. With better planning this trifecta should improve.

Key Takeaways:

1. Rob Ninkovich's retirement and injuries to Shea McClellin and Derek Rivers have had a trickle down effect of forcing too many players into jobs they aren't capable of doing.
   
2. The lack of pass rush will allow teams to spread the field with RBs and TEs and force the Patriots into dime coverage to expose the lack of coverage ability at linebacker and at the end of the safety depth chart.
3. Teams will likely continue to shift alignment pre-snap and run crossing routes to stress the Patriot's communication in the backfield.

Potential Solutions:

1. Someone steps up at the defensive end position allowing Hightower (assuming good health) to move back to his usual role. Putting Hightower in a better position to blitz will improve the pass rush and potentially punish teams that try to spread out their RBs and TEs.
2. Patriots find outside the 53 man roster someone who can replace Richards (coverage LB or safety). As the Patriots have proved over and over again, you are only as strong as your weakest link.
3. Added reps and games will result in better communication and give the coaches a better understanding of how to utilize all the new pieces.

 

[ifmanis5]

Good thread topic.
Last night the Pats had real problems holding the edge and dealing with KC's speed. Nink's retirement and Rivers' injury leaves some major question marks on a front seven that already looked thin at Linebacker.
The Blue Chipper list on D is pretty short: DMC and Hightower (when healthy). Possibly Flowers, Gilmore and Butler. Patricia has a lot of work to do making Lemonade out of this. They will have to get by with scheme, grit and big plays in the Redzone. Otherwise, it's going to be a bad unit.

 

[RedOctober3829]

It's going to take some time for this unit to gel and settle into their roles. Hightower is playing a brand new role in the D. A. Butler, Gilmore, Guy, Wise, Marsh, etc. haven't played in this scheme, in this league, or both. Van Noy is being asked a lot more of him than last year. No one, including myself, wanted to look past the hype this unit was getting because of the big name secondary and see that the front 7 has major holes. They'll get fixed because they always get fixed under BB. I just hope that there aren't more nights like last night before they do.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Marsh was just traded for and he's our #3 DE - scarily thin depth there.

Maybe Richards can be coached up again but I bet he doesn't last the season.

 

[Greekca]

The lack of depth has me wondering if the number of "special teams only" players is severely impacting the defense. Of the 26 players I listed above, only 22 suited up for the game (Valentine, Langhi, Ebner, McClellin didn't play). Of those 22, 5 are considered pretty much special teams only players (Marsh, Flowers, Jones, Bandemosi, and King). I don't know how that compares to past rosters, but it seems that if 23% of your defensive players can only contribute on special teams, you are going to be pretty thin on the defensive side of the ball.

This approach seems counter to many other rosters across the NFL where the special teams players are just the bottom part of your depth chart. The Patriots players don't seem like they are even considered part of the depth chart. This strategy may work when you are relatively healthy, but if injuries are concentrated at one position, you are more exposed than the average NFL team.

 

[Stitch01]

Marsh and Jones both qualify as defensive players on the bottom part of the depth chart that also play special teams. Too early to tell on Flowers and Bandemosi.

 

[Super Nomario]

The lack of depth has me wondering if the number of "special teams only" players is severely impacting the defense. Of the 26 players I listed above, only 22 suited up for the game (Valentine, Langhi, Ebner, McClellin didn't play). Of those 22, 5 are considered pretty much special teams only players (Marsh, Flowers, Jones, Bandemosi, and King). I don't know how that compares to past rosters, but it seems that if 23% of your defensive players can only contribute on special teams, you are going to be pretty thin on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't think so. Most of your special teams contributors come from the defensive back seven (LBs and DBs), while the weakest part of the team is the front seven (DL and LBs). The edge depth is lousy with Sheard and Long departing, Nink retiring, Ealy washing out, and Rivers getting hurt, but special teams isn't part of that equation - heck, they cut the edge guy (Grissom) who figured to contribute most in the kicking game.

This approach seems counter to many other rosters across the NFL where the special teams players are just the bottom part of your depth chart. The Patriots players don't seem like they are even considered part of the depth chart. This strategy may work when you are relatively healthy, but if injuries are concentrated at one position, you are more exposed than the average NFL team.

They can make different decisions week to week if something happens to impact depth somewhere - for instance, they can activate Langi if Hightower can't go, or call up one of the practice squad safeties if Harmon or McCourty get hurt, or whatever.

I don't think depth had a lot to do with the performance the other night, certainly not as you are describing. They carried Harris, who doesn't play special teams, on the game-day roster but still only put him out there for two snaps even after Hightower got hurt. The problem isn't picking special teams players over defensive contributors, the problem is not enough talent.

 

[BaseballJones]

The secondary has got to play lights out for this defense to be good. Fortunately, they have the skill to do that. And the secondary definitely helped out the DL in terms of the pass rush. They had 3 sacks and I think all of them were helped by the secondary's coverage.

Now, that's not saying much about the DL. I was optimistic about defense, figuring that Harris would be a solid LB and that Hightower would be terrific in Nink's spot. But he was just ok, and then got hurt. Losing all the names that Super Nomario mentioned - Nink, Sheard, Long, and Rivers, with Ealy not panning out...man that's a lot to overcome. It will take time.

I do expect them to improve, but I just don't know that they have the DL talent, at least on the outside, to cause many teams sleepless nights. It would help if Brown, Branch, and the big guys in the middle were super stout, and they weren't on Thursday.

And really, after Hightower, the LB corps looked pretty weak and JAG-ish. One nice think about Ninkovich coming back, if that's something that's even a remote possibility, is that it gives them at least a solid edge player which could allow Hightower to move back to LB to blitz and terrorize as he usually does. That would actually strengthen two positions in one single move.

Flowers, if he stays healthy, is going to be a monster player I think.

 

[Greekca]

The problem isn't picking special teams players over defensive contributors, the problem is not enough talent.

Thinking about it more, what I was thinking about was more development depth. If the defense is currently what we saw Thursday night (Point A) and it needs to get to Point B to be successful, how does that happen? There are really two ways: external improvement and internal improvement. Given the season has already started, it seems unlikely that we can expect much in terms of external reinforcements. Especially considering Belichick has already traded most of his typical ammo he uses for his mid-season trades. So, it is most likely going to have to come from internal improvement.

Internal improvement can come seemingly from two different sources. One way being improvement in scheme and deployment of players. Clearly, the scheme deployed against the Chiefs was not the right one. The second is from improvement of the players on the roster. Luckily, the Patriots have one of the best coaching staffs in the league, so we can likely expect more improvement from a player than on the average NFL team. However, in looking at the defense I can identify 5 players (Wise, Butler, Roberts, Langhi, and Jones) that seemingly could go from bench warmer to significant contributor by season's end. (Valentine is another guy that could see considerable improvement, but I already view him as a contributor based on last season.) That seems like a decent number of development guys to have on your defense, but only one of them (Wise) seems to be one whose development would directly improve the biggest flaws we saw against the Chiefs.

If you were to think about defensive roster construction in a vacuum where special teams didn't exist, you would want to layer your depth chart with a good mix of veteran and development guys. The veterans act as a sort of floor replacement player, and the development guy is one that you are hoping will be better towards the end of the season and even better next season. Since you can't carry your desired depth at every position, you would want to layer the strongest depth (in terms of number and quality) behind your weakest and most injury prone starters. By layering depth behind your weak starters, you are hoping that someone from the depth chart emerges and replaces your starter. Looking at the Patriots roster, it appears there is too much depth allocated to safety (6 players with 3 being solely special teams contributors last season) and defensive tackle 4/5 players (depends on how you view Guy) and not enough at the weaker positions of defensive end and linebacker. Ideally, I would think you would want more than one guy at your greatest weaknesses you could bank on internally to dramatically improve as the season progresses.

 

[Super Nomario]

However, in looking at the defense I can identify 5 players (Wise, Butler, Roberts, Langhi, and Jones) that seemingly could go from bench warmer to significant contributor by season's end. (Valentine is another guy that could see considerable improvement, but I already view him as a contributor based on last season.) That seems like a decent number of development guys to have on your defense, but only one of them (Wise) seems to be one whose development would directly improve the biggest flaws we saw against the Chiefs.

I don't know; I think any of those front seven players emerging would help a lot. Jones wouldn't have made much difference last night, but certainly could in case of injury or if they face a team with a different composition of receivers. I think you can also look for players who are contributors to become better contributors: Rowe and Van Noy are still young and in their first full year with the team, Malcom Brown is still only 23, believe it or not, Flowers is still young. Then again, key contributors like Alan Branch, McCourty, and Chung are getting up there.

If you were to think about defensive roster construction in a vacuum where special teams didn't exist, you would want to layer your depth chart with a good mix of veteran and development guys. The veterans act as a sort of floor replacement player, and the development guy is one that you are hoping will be better towards the end of the season and even better next season. Since you can't carry your desired depth at every position, you would want to layer the strongest depth (in terms of number and quality) behind your weakest and most injury prone starters. By layering depth behind your weak starters, you are hoping that someone from the depth chart emerges and replaces your starter. Looking at the Patriots roster, it appears there is too much depth allocated to safety (6 players with 3 being solely special teams contributors last season) and defensive tackle 4/5 players (depends on how you view Guy) and not enough at the weaker positions of defensive end and linebacker. Ideally, I would think you would want more than one guy at your greatest weaknesses you could bank on internally to dramatically improve as the season progresses.

I understand what you're saying, but to me, for a variety of reasons, this is a tiny factor:
1) Developmental prospects can also be good special teamers (like Jonathan Jones). UDFAs like BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Kyle Arrington developed from ST duty into O/D.
2) Between the practice squad and the seven game-day inactives, they have several spots for developmental guys who don't play special teams. Malcolm Butler wasn't a ST guy as a rookie. Roberts wasn't last year. So they can keep the *best* developmental prospects even if they weren't high picks and don't play ST, just not everyone.
3) While it might seem like they are carrying a lot of DT and S, DT rotate a lot and the Patriots play three safety a lot. Even in a ST-free vacuum, they might be hard-pressed to carry a bunch of extra guys at DE / LB (and they are carrying a bunch of LB).
4) ST does exist
5) If your theory is correct, we would expect to see players on other teams that the Patriots cut in favor of a ST contributor that developed into a contributor. I guess Cre'Von LeBlanc? Jeremy Mincey (but that was a decade ago)? I think Ealy was the only front seven guy they cut who even got claimed this year, so if they like dudes like Trevor Bates and Christian Kuntz, they can bring them back.

To me, this just seems like such an insignificant factor in what is going on defensively that it's not worth worrying about. We are talking about the handling of a small number of essentially fungible players. The talent problems relate more to bad draft picks (Easley, Geneo Grissom, Ealy wasn't a draft pick but he was a zero), bad luck (Rivers' injury, the timing of Ninkovich's retirement, losing the first for Deflategate), and (probably correct) decisions to let guys walk for economic reasons (Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Akiem Hicks, second-tier guys like Sheard and Chris Long).

 

[bsj]

http://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/patriots-reportedly-work-out-former-1st-round-pick-dl-datone-jones-along


Always felt Datone Jones was talented. I'd love to take a flyer

 

[ifmanis5]

Feels like Butler will be moved for LB/DL help. The Rivers injury paired with Ealy being a total washout really set this unit back. We'll see what value Butler still has on the open market as his own team seems to have soured on him.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Feels like Butler will be moved for LB/DL help. The Rivers injury paired with Ealy being a total washout really set this unit back. We'll see what value Butler still has on the open market as his own team seems to have soured on him.

While I agree that he'd fetch a nice haul(as nice as you can get in-season) I don't think the team has soured on him yet. NO has bigger WRs and Gilmore/Rowe tend to match up better against them. If Butler continues to be the nickel corner then yes there's an issue. But for now, I will chalk it up to game planning.

 

[Super Nomario]

Feels like Butler will be moved for LB/DL help. The Rivers injury paired with Ealy being a total washout really set this unit back. We'll see what value Butler still has on the open market as his own team seems to have soured on him.

The problem is that wipes out the CB depth. Jones isn't very proven, and he'd be basically pushed into a starting role as the third CB. Bademosi hasn't played much more and struggled in Detroit last year; he's better in the fifth CB role.

 

[mwonow]

The problem is that wipes out the CB depth. Jones isn't very proven, and he'd be basically pushed into a starting role as the third CB. Bademosi hasn't played much more and struggled in Detroit last year; he's better in the fifth CB role.

I think you're right - CBS depth is like pitching depth, it's a bad idea to deal it away early in a season

 

[Saints Rest]

Does anyone remember some of the end of season CBs back 10 years ago? Edelman, Tro Brown, etc

 

[Greekca]

An update for the New Orleans game (http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4805889/alan-branchs-playing-time-dips-elandon-roberts-sees-more-snaps):

DEFENSIVE END
Trey Flowers – 62
Cassius Marsh – 31
Deatrick Wise – 28
Dont’a Hightower – 0 (injured)

Notable change from last week is the injury to Hightower. Given what we saw at the end of the Chiefs game, no real surprise on who was asked to step up. Wise had another very solid game and continues to develop in a pass rusher only role (27 of 28 snaps were pass rush snaps per PFF). We all know the true test of earning Belichick's trust as a DE is your ability to hold the edge and play containment. Wise has yet to be put in those situations on game day. His usage against Houston will be telling as Belichick tends to have his front focus on containment rather than sacks against mobile inexperienced QBs.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Adam Butler – 45
Malcom Brown – 34
Lawrence Guy – 30
Alan Branch – 6
Vincent Valentine – 0 (injured)

Notable change to this position group is the heavier usage of Butler rather than Branch. My take is that is related towards gameplan more than anything. Still impressive that a UDFA garnered more snaps than any other DT in only his second game. He should be an interesting player to watch develop over the season. Guy has appeared to be as advertised so far this season.

LINEBACKER
Kyle Van Noy – 65
Elandon Roberts – 36
Harvey Langhi – 6
David Harris – 1
Marquis Flowers – 0 (special teams)
Shea McClellin – 0 (injured, IR)

Van Noy is clearly the top LB as he essentially never leaves the field. The game plan against the Saints was more Nickel focused than Dime leading to more playing time for Roberts. Harris seems to be the third LB right now and should see more action against more run focused teams. I would expect him to see the field more against the Texans.

CORNERBACK
Stephon Gilmore – 65
Malcolm Butler – 49
Eric Rowe – 34
Jonathan Jones – 27
Johnson Bandemosi – 0 (special teams)

I think this game again reinforced Belichick's view of Butler as not a true top flight corner. The Patriots countered the bigger Saints wide receivers with Rowe rather than Butler. If Snead was active, Butler would have likely started. Jones flashed on a few plays and has demonstrated that he has the potential to be more than a ST ace.

SAFETY
Devin McCourty – 65
Patrick Chung – 63
Duron Harmon – 52
Jordan Richards – 16
Nate Ebner – 0 (special teams, injured)
Brandon King – 0 (special teams)

Could it be as simple as less Jordan Richards means a better performance by the defense? Regardless, I was glad to see less of him against the Saints. Still far too many big plays allowed by the backend and communication seemed to continue to suffer. I still have confidence that this unit will figure it out with added reps and games.

 

[Greekca]

Update for Week 3 only focusing on the interesting developments (http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806174/rob-gronkowski-misses-just-one-snap-groin-injury-doesnt-slow-him-down)

DEFENSIVE END
Trey Flowers – 68
Deatrick Wise – 34
Cassius Marsh – 31
Dont’a Hightower – 0 (injured)

I would not be surprised if Wise and Marsh have shown enough in Hightower's absence to convince the coaching staff to move him back to his old position when he is healthy. Was more pronounced this week, but the defense has seemed unorganized in his absence. Noticed quite a few times guys were yelling at each other and moving around trying to get set right up until the snap. Not something we are used to when the Pats defense is on the field.

LINEBACKER
Kyle Van Noy – 71
Elandon Roberts – 57
David Harris – 4
Marquis Flowers – 2 (primarily special teams)
Harvey Langhi – 0 (scratched)
Shea McClellin – 0 (injured, IR)

After two games of evidence, we can probably firmly state that Roberts has risen to the #2 linebacker spot in Hightower's absence. Harris continues to be the third option and typically comes on for heavier sets. Next week's game against the Panthers should give us a better idea of where Harris stands. If he doesn't see a considerable uptick in snaps, I am not really sure what type of team they envision using him against.

 

[Stitch01]

Reiss says they are just using Harris once they get to the ten yard line or so where they can hide his lack of speed a bit. I dont expect him to take snaps over Roberts next week and the Pats dont play very many base 3 LB sets (this week was the uptick in LB snaps, last week it was just Van Noy most plays) so think its way more likely that's his role barring injury (and, personally, not one I expect him to keep for the whole season). If Harris was capable of more, Id have expected to see him get more snaps by now given some of the confusion and communication issues.

 

[Greekca]

My thought was that the Carolina offense probably lends itself to more 3 LB sets than any of the opponents the Patriots have faced so far (slower, bigger offense, avg. 29 rushes per game). If he received more playing time, I would think it would be at the expense of Harmon or Rowe/Jones, not Roberts.

I am sure the Panthers will be dying to get McCaffrey (6.57 3-cone) and Curtis Samuel (4.31 40, listed at WR but lined up in the backfield occasionally at Ohio State) matched up on the Patriots linebackers, so will be interesting to see how the Patriots counter. Panthers offense seems a little bit different given Olsen is on IR and Benjamin had some injury issues last game.

 

[dcmissle]

Pats fan Schatz is not amused. Through 3 weeks, we really, really suck:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20853942/new-england-patriots-super-bowl-long-shots-thanks-dreadful-defense

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Pats fan Schatz is not amused. Through 3 weeks, we really, really suck:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20853942/new-england-patriots-super-bowl-long-shots-thanks-dreadful-defense

We have sucked but we will be getting Hightower and Rowe back this week and hopefully McClellin back as at some point as well. Wise has been a great find and Adam Butler has been solid. The pieces are there and the coaching staff has enough time to fix things. Just hope the injuries can be minimized.

 

[Captaincoop]

We've sunk so low on defense that getting Shea McLellin back is considered a key event.

 

[Stitch01]

Downgrade from prohibitive favorite to part of pack of contenders seems about right to me

 

[Harry Hooper]

Downgrade from prohibitive favorite to part of pack of contenders seems about right to me

Given time the braintrust will get the defense in a reasonable working order, though probably not a top NFL unit.. Will the OL do a better job protecting Brady so that he's still standing when the defense is better?

 

[dcmissle]

They have played two pretty formidable defenses. Given time and reasonable health, I expect the o-line and defense to be adequate. Meanwhile it's time to gut out ugly wins so the games that really count are played in the right place. Injury is a caveat to everything.

 

[ifmanis5]

Status: Trainwreck.

 

[soxhop411]

“@RyanHannable: Q: Would simplifying things help on defense?


Harmon: “We’ve simplified. Can’t get no more simpler than what we’re doing.”


This says a lot.”

 

[Ralphwiggum]

So Gilmore is brain dead then? What else can we infer from this? Everyone else back there was in this scheme last year.

 

[Stitch01]

Hightower was probably the best player on defense this year and they have got almost nothing out of him so far. Branch was their best defensive lineman (maybe Flowers in the second half) and he has taken a step back. Butler has played noticeably worse.

 

[H78]

Yup. He clearly doesn't feel comfortable in zone defenses; he gets crossed up with who's covering who. I mean, he's been with the team for how long, now? If that's where he's struggling his contract just got a whole lot scarier. It isn't rocket science to simply know which area of the field you're responsible for on defense. He's a multi-millionaire professional football player, that's literally all he has to do to be moderately successful at his job, because he has all of the physical tools.

Just look at the penalties. It's clear he struggles with the mental aspect of the game.

 

[soxhop411]

Some more quotes

 

[DJnVa]

I’m reading the “simplified” comment as straight at Gilmore.

I wonder if we’re going to get a big move somewhere—trade, cut, or firing.

 

[soxhop411]

 

[Stitch01]

Communication problems are fixable. I hope that's the driver here.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Harmon throwing Belichick, Caserio under the bus?

 

[DJnVa]

Harmon throwing Belichick, Caserio under the bus?

No. The new guy.

Because even if he wants to blame BB he shouldn’t.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I wouldn't really infer anything from those words. It's the standard "everyone needs to play better in all phases talk."

 

[Al Zarilla]

No. The new guy.

Because even if he wants to blame BB he shouldn’t.

But BB is responsible for the trade(s) and Harmon is calling out the changes as the problem. Not easy for Harmon or anybody though when they shove a mike in your face.

 

[DJnVa]

Gilmore admitted (it's in another thread) that he needs to get better at the communication. That's better than hearing it's the scheme (although in a way it is I guess) and I hope they get it ironed out.

But BB is responsible for the trade(s) and Harmon is calling out the changes as the problem.

It's a subtle difference, but I think saying there's communication issues because there's new guys is a bit different from saying that they shouldn't have brought these guys in.

 

[Super Nomario]

Gilmore admitted (it's in another thread) that he needs to get better at the communication. That's better than hearing it's the scheme (although in a way it is I guess) and I hope they get it ironed out.

It's a subtle difference, but I think saying there's communication issues because there's new guys is a bit different from saying that they shouldn't have brought these guys in.

They've brought in new guys before but they've never had these kinds of problems, certainly not in this volume.

It's been four weeks of the same issues. Presumably the communication issues have been something the coaching staff has been stressing. If players didn't get it before now, they need new players.

 

[koufax32]

Reiss:
Stephon Gilmore on his playing style: "I'm going to keep playing aggressive. Refs are going to call it sometimes. Sometimes they're not."


Trying not to read too much into that but at the least it’s a stupid thing to say. Congrats on having all Zebra eyes on you from here on out Bro!

It reads an awful lot like someone who is saying it wasn’t his bad for committing two absolute killer hands to face penalties. That’ll end well.

 

[DJnVa]

Oh yeah, I know that they really need to get it at this point.

Let's see if there are any changes this week. Short week though.

 

[mwonow]

They've brought in new guys before but they've never had these kinds of problems, certainly not in this volume.

It's been four weeks of the same issues. Presumably the communication issues have been something the coaching staff has been stressing. If players didn't get it before now, they need new players.

Yes, this.

It starts with milling around looking for the right position, seemingly every play. It goes from there into often not having anyone assigned to a receiver, which is why opposing quarterbacks are feasting, And it goes on to the stunning lack of fundamental tackling ability.

I think Van Noy is a good enough complementary part, but having him as the on-every-snap, center of the D is clearly not working. Roberts, too, is a nice role player, but not an every down backer.

I'm not sure Gilmore is smart enough to play for the NEP.

I don't know how this is fixable with the current crop of players. There must be a guy or two out there who has the physical ability to be competitive in the NFL and the mental acuity to line up in the right coverages, and who either know or can learn how to tackle.

 

[Salem's Lot]

No. The new guy.

Because even if he wants to blame BB he shouldn’t.

I'd be shocked if they weren't a little disgruntled. They had two key contributors to a super bowl team up for deals. They wouldn't pay Butler and let Ryan go over money. Then they gave big money to a guy who's never won shit. Now he can't pick up the defense. I'd be pissed if I were Harmon.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

The year-to-year process in the NFL demands that successful teams do a good job at "bringing in new guys." There's no way you can read that as a criticism of Belichick or Caserio.

 

[Bowhemian]

I'd be shocked if they weren't a little disgruntled. They had two key contributors to a super bowl team up for deals. They wouldn't pay Butler and let Ryan go over money. Then they gave big money to a guy who's never won shit. Now he can't pick up the defense. I'd be pissed if I were Harmon.

The part about Butler is silly. He was under contract, they didn't have to pay him $0.10 more than his current contract.

 

[DJnVa]

I'd be shocked if they weren't a little disgruntled. They had two key contributors to a super bowl team up for deals. They wouldn't pay Butler and let Ryan go over money. Then they gave big money to a guy who's never won shit. Now he can't pick up the defense. I'd be pissed if I were Harmon.

They paid Hightower, no?

 

[Salem's Lot]

The part about Butler is silly. He was under contract, they didn't have to pay him $0.10 more than his current contract.

I know it's silly from an outside observer, but it's a work place. People get pissed at any job when the good co-workers/ friend leave or are on the way out over money while they bring in a new guy that can't do the job.

 

[DJnVa]

Where are the DBs we can pick up in week 5 for everyone saying to get new players? And I thought "new players" were the issue here?