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2017 Cowboys: NoMo' Romo

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by Greg29fan, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    Nobody's going to confuse them with the 85 Bears or anything but I don't think they're nearly as bad on that side of the ball as they're made out to be.
     
  2. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    We shall see. They're certainly not bad but a team with a strong passing offense, like GB or Atlanta, should really be able to exploit this secondary. The Giants are such a dumpster fire without Beckham that it's hard to make any kind of judgment one way or another from yesterday. Up next is Denver and their pedestrian offense, Arizona (likely without Johnson), and the Rams so they'll be just fine for a while. I also think the defense benefits from the offense's ability to control the ball. It's pretty tough to force a 3 and out against the Cowboys offense. Did the Giants force a single one last night? I don't recall one and they have a really good defense.
     
  3. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    We saw what happens to the Cowboys defense when they face a great offense AND the Cowboys offense sputters a bit...you get the GB playoff game 1st half where they fell behind 21-3 before they got back to playing their game and beating up GB a bit in the 2nd half. The defense has to be protected to a certain extent against a good offense. I doubt this crew is much better than last year's version. DeMarcus Lawrence could be a difference-maker though if he's maturing into a good pass rusher finally. He looked great last night, but hard to judge when he's facing a shitty tackle. But he did what you would expect a good rusher to do against a shitty tackle, so that's a good sign. If they keep Sean Lee healthy and Lawrence (and Irving when he gets back in a few weeks) are legit on the D-line, then the defense should be more than adequate given the talent and ball-control ability of the offense.

    I will say that even though they only scored 19 points last night, it was a good sign they gained nearly 400 yards and controlled the tempo like that on a night where Dak Prescott was clearly off. He overthrew a lot of balls to open receivers...particularly in the first half, so you felt they left quite a bit of meat on the bone. If he was on target, then the offense probably hangs a 30-spot on a good Giants defense.

    Another good test for the offense next week in Denver.
     
  4. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Yup. This offense is very good. They have an elite OL, RB, WR, two very good options in Beasley/Witten for the short stuff, and a couple guys in Terrance Williams/Butler who are capable of making plays. Dak still obviously has some development but he does a very good job of not turning the ball over - 4 INTs in 17 regular season games is quite ridiculous for a young QB. I'm really looking forward to the Week 5 game against Green Bay. These 2 teams could be on yet another playoff collision course so it will be a very important game for potential seeding purposes.
     
  5. Oil Can Dan

    Oil Can Dan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It seems to me that Dak is somewhat overprotective. He needs to see the receive open, and he doesn't do well with anticipation. If the pass isn't there after 3-4 seconds he tucks & runs. So he's going to have high completions percentage, low Interception rate and pedestrian counting stats.

    All of that is fine when you have an incredible OL and awesome running game. Turning well-covered plays in to 3-5 yard gains is really all you need to do with this offense as we've known it for the last 17 games. But when he needs to pass his receivers open on days that the running game isn't working, I think he's going to have trouble.

    Not the worst problem for a 2nd year QB to have at all and I'm not trying to hate on the guy. He's shown great leadership and poise so far in his short career and his future is obviously bright. But I wonder if he'll be the type to put an offense on his back when it's needed.
     
  6. edmunddantes

    edmunddantes Member SoSH Member

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    My favorite so far...

    Judge is not amused by NFL lawyer complaints about 3 long days


    Nash: And we spent three long days last week, all of us in New York, before Arbitrator presenting--

    Judge: I spent my weekend reading it all, so...
     
  7. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    Do you have a link to the transcript? I'd love to read it.

    Of possible interest to Cowboys fans and fantasy football fans, the NFL has appealed the judge's injunction. They have also asked for the judge to stay his stay (which would reinstate the suspension). They essentially acknowledge this is a hopeless act, but they have to do this in order to ask the court of appeals to lift the stay. The NFL, recognizing that the judge will almost certainly deny their motion, has also asked the judge to rule quickly -- basically, that's their ticket to ask the court of appeals.
     
  8. edmunddantes

    edmunddantes Member SoSH Member

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    No I don't. I was just going off of Wallach's snippets. I think he was getting it from one of the paid services (being a lawyer that probably already had access). It might be out there somewhere though.
     
  9. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    I checked pacer but it's not there yet, because the parties are supposed to get 7 days to identify any portions confidential before it goes public. Wallach must have gotten it from a party.
     
  10. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That is some pretty horrendous defense by the Cowboys. Making a mediocre Denver offense look unstoppable on their first drive.
     
  11. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    So I guess they suck again, huh?
     
  12. johnmd20

    johnmd20 voice of soccer Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Playing in Denver is extremely tough. So no, they don't suck, but losing almost all their secondary was a tough break to overcome. No idea what happened with Elliot, but there is a fair chance this NFL legal drama is causing a loss of focus.
     
  13. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No.

    If Siemian plays this well, let alone improves, Broncos are going to provide a rude awakening to more than a few of us.
     
  14. Stitch01

    Stitch01 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    He also got like 5 carries when the game actually mattered, Dallas offensive game plan was sort of odd. Dallas defense wasnt really very good to start, so their second stringers are likely going to be really bad.
     
  15. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't understand what is going on with the offense. They came out slinging the ball around the yard against the Giants too. The only reason Elliott got to 100 yards in that game was because they started running out the clock late in the game. Prescott hasn't exactly been sharp either, so that is not a recipe for success. Linehan has some 'splaining to do.

    This concerns me the most long-term. This team goes nowhere without the running game so either he needs to get re-focused or he might as well just serve his suspension (that, at least, would cause him to come back with a chip on his shoulder). They can ill-afford for him to pout his way through the whole season.
     
  16. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    I can't put it all on Elliott when the offensive line got its collective ass whipped all day long. There are some issues up front that are just as concerning.
     
  17. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not worried about them long-term. They got their asses handed to them but that can still be considered an anomaly. They handled the Giants' defensive front just fine, and there is a school of thought that the Giants specifically tailored their defense to counter the Cowboys offense. If that continues to happen, I'll amend my statement but for now, I'm far more concerned about Elliott's frame of mind.
     
  18. johnmd20

    johnmd20 voice of soccer Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Being in legal limbo is the worst case scenario. The suspension is hanging over his head, nothing is clear, and there is not an insignificant chance he could end up missing games later in the season. Meanwhile he's playing now but not being used correctly or doesn't have his head in the game.

    That's tough to deal with for all parties involved.
     
  19. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Whatever the case is with his usage, he's a professional and he's expected to be ready whenever his number is called. If he doesn't have his head right, that could potentially be disastrous to the team's season - especially if he ends up serving his suspension towards the tail end of it.
     
  20. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    Is there anything to him dogging it? I was watching on RedZone and they flashed into an INT or fumble and FOX made a point to show that Elliot put his hands on his hips and just shook his head instead of showing any effort. I'm sure this happens constantly in the NFL, but was that just an isolated "Look at this!" or is there a larger issue. i'm guessing it's nothing and don't judge anything as shown on 1 minute clips on RedZone.
     
  21. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Siemian is Matt Cassel 3.6 (or whatever Shitty QB Who Looks Decent In Small Sample is on these days).

    Their defense is legit. Joseph looks like a good hire. I am not buying Siemian until he wins a playoff game on the road. He's average. And average has value, but it when push comes to shove, it doesn't win playoff games.

    They planned for Life Without Zeke and then, having Zeke, have scrambled to plug him into the plan. You're right, that is on Linehan (and Garrett, but who am I kidding?). They look lost because the parts are greater than the whole right now. It's the first five minutes of a Rock & Roll HOF performance where the BIG NAMES are having trouble finding the groove.

    They should dust off the game plan from one of Zeke and Dak's best games last season, practice the shit out of it, and get back to basics. Worry about what the "second year plan!" is later, if at all.

    I'd tell him to serve it now, but that's because I think the NFL won't lose on the discipline issue until there's a strike. Brady folded rather than have it "affect the team" and you can't argue the results. They can't execute the "no Zeke" plan until Zeke is gone but with every game, that offseason plan becomes more outdated and flawed. So, while I think Linehan's fucking up, I see why he's fucking up. Almost no one could, or would, try to do both. I'm sure the coaches would like to know which plan they have to craft each week and the uncertainty leads to disjointed performances.
     
  22. johnmd20

    johnmd20 voice of soccer Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Brady fought the suspension for 18 months. He didn't exactly fold.
     
  23. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    Brady also "folded" because he was at a point in the process where the likelihood of success was very very slim, and a further stay would have been in jeopardy of being lifted at a very inconvenient time in the upcoming season. They looked at the schedule, looked at their chances, and decided that the first four games of the season was the best outcome, rather than petitioning the Supreme Court, having the stay be in place, and having the Supreme Court decide not to take the case in December so that he would have to serve the suspension then. It turned out to be a very wise decision.

    Elliott is not really in comparable position. He has a much higher likelihood of success at this point than did Brady. While I actually don't think he has a very good case, it is dramatically better than Brady's case was once the court of appeals decided the case. If Elliott can get through the NFL's latest motion -- I'd say he has a good chance of doing so -- he remains in a forum with a judge that is prepared to kick the shit out of the NFL, and even if he loses eventually, at least he can control the timing better and the team can better prepare for his absence like the Patriots did.
     
  24. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't place as much emphasis on that one play as the web seems to be wanting to do. It was his overall body language was disappointing - and that one play was part of it. Maybe, as I said about the offensive line, this was a one-off and there's no cause for alarm. That was, after all, probably the worst game of his life. He can be forgiven for being disappointed and getting carried away but the all-watching eye of Sauron will be on him until something else draws its ire.

    I'm starting to come around to this. This feels like a no-win situation for him and the sooner he takes his medicine, the better off the team will probably be. Though I'm not 100% sure what's better for him personally, and I can certainly understand him wanting to fight for what's left of his eroding reputation.

    Whatever ends up happening, it might be time for the team to start considering giving him the Dez treatment for a bit.
     
  25. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    ITP's Brandon Thorn pointed out that Dallas is changing up two of five OL positions, which is no joke. In the long run, they're too talented not to be fine, but there may be some growing pains until they settle in.
     
  26. edmunddantes

    edmunddantes Member SoSH Member

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    As to the court case,



    But may become moot if 5th circuit goes with what Clements wants them to do which is get it out of Mazzant's courtroom completely.

    Wallach has some good tweets up today with all the different arguments happening right now, NFL to 5th Circuit, Mazzant to the 5th Circuit, and the NFLPA from last week (I think as they aren't due to respond yet or will be responding soon to teh latest).
     
  27. RGREELEY33

    RGREELEY33 Potty Mouth Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I think the big difference between this and TB12 is that it would in effect be perceived as Elliott was admitting to being someone who beats women. TB12's "offense" was completely insignificant in relation, and through the process, the public perception amongst rational people came around to think the whole thing was a charade. The average NFL fan has paid no attention to the Elliott case, and if he just relents and says "for the team", then he will forever be labeled a woman-beater. I don't know if he is or not, but I can certainly understand why he would want to fight this to his figurative death if he is in fact innocent.
     
  28. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    While that's certainly true and almost definitely is part of the consideration to keep up the fight, let's not forget the verdict is already out in the court of public opinion. Win or lose, he will always carry the woman beater label (and now you can add the "quit on his team" label too). Whether that's fair or not we'll likely never know.

    With all that said, it seems like he's gaining some momentum on the legal side, so it's hard to see him do anything but charge full steam ahead in fighting this.
     
  29. edmunddantes

    edmunddantes Member SoSH Member

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    I'm outsourcing my take on the Elliot dogging criticism to Hurley... loved this observation



    Wait wait wait wait. LaDanian Tomlinson criticized Ezekiel Elliott's attitude on the sidelines? Mr. Mask And Jacket himself?
     
  30. johnmd20

    johnmd20 voice of soccer Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Elliot's infraction on this play wasn't even that grave. He was running in the opposite direction as the INT returner. I can't believe this "quits on his team" crap will stick for very long. This is just a Monday hot take that will go away pretty quickly.
     
  31. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    Is this the standard these days? There's currently 11 of 30+ QB's who have won a road playoff game. There's only 7 that have won more than 2.

    "Current" QB's that have never won a road game in the playoffs:

    Dalton
    Stafford
    Cam Newton
    Matt Ryan
    Matt Schaub
    Palmer

    I don't disagree with your overall point but winning road playoff games make you a top 30% QB rather than a garbage replacement as you infer seems really flawed.
     
  32. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I mean Brady hasn't since 2006
     
  33. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    Yeah, just for a bit of a primer on what is happening, for those interested.

    1) District court (Mazzant) granted a stay, as everyone knows. Granting the stay was pretty noncontroversial. The bottom line is that if you don't grant a stay, it's the same thing as saying the NFL wins, since the player will end up serving the suspension before he gets his day in court. But Mazzant went pretty far and actually said much more than that, blasting the NFL and suggesting that he thinks they acted egregiously. As I posted before, I thought his decision came across as hyperbolic and results-oriented.

    2) The NFL filed a motion in Mazzant's court asking him to lift the stay and to force Elliott to serve the suspension, starting soon. This was always going to be a loser, but it was essentially a procedural requirement. The NFL really wants to get the fifth circuit to lift the stay, but in order to ask them to do so, they needed first to ask Mazzant to lift his own stay.

    3) The NFL decided not to wait for Mazzant to rule. They immediately filed an appeal of Mazzant's injunction, and they also filed an emergency motion asking the Fifth Circuit to lift the stay. They argue that Mazzant did not have "jurisdiction" to enter the injunction, or to hear the case, because the NFLPA filed the case before the arbitrator had ruled. Accordingly, their position is that this case does not belong in Texas and instead, the Fifth Circuit should dismiss the Texas case and let the NFL's case go forward in New York. (I don't know this area of the law, but Kessler's brief makes more sense on the point to me than does Clements'.) The NFL also says that Elliott won't be irreparably harmed so the stay should be lifted. But that's a loser. What they are hoping for is that the Fifth Circuit will basically agree that the NFLPA filed too early, and so kick the case to New York.

    There are a couple of interesting things to note about this third point that are a bit inside baseball, but what the heck. (a) There is some irony here. The NFL is arguing that the district court lacked jurisdiction, because the case was filed too early. Yet, they essentially did the very same thing that the NFLPA did by running to the Fifth Circuit before Mazzant ruled on whether or not to lift the stay. In the end, this is a lack of symmetry that likely won't have any consequence, but it's still interesting. (b) Those who followed the ins and outs of Brady will recognize a bit of unfairness here. The NFL in Brady got itself into the favorable forum in New York by filing a lawsuit virtually contemporaneously with the arbitrator's decision. They are essentially trying to stake out a position that will insure that all of their cases go to New York, because they will always have advance notice of when they are getting ready to rule, while the NFLPA will not have that advance notice, so the NFL can virtually always win the race to court. That is a real unfairness, and I would have thought Kessler would have pointed that out to the fifth circuit, but he did not -- I think this is a strategy call and he's probably sensitive to wanting to suggest that he views the fifth circuit as a more favorable forum. He's probably just trying to give off the vibe that he wins in any court.

    (c) And this last one is important for fantasy players and Cowboys fans, but really hasn't been reported much in the news yet and Wallach seems not to have tumbled to it yet. Even if the Fifth Circuit agrees with the NFL and moves the case to New York, it doesn't mean there would be no stay. Presumably, the NFLPA would file an emergency motion for injunction in New York, making the same arguments it made in Texas -- that to not give a stay will irreparably injure Elliott. I think they would win that argument, just as they did in Brady. So, even if the NFL "wins" this round, what they win is a more favorable court on the ultimate merits, presumably, but it does not mean the stay would be lifted and that Elliott would have to start his suspension.

    4) What happened today was that Mazzant ruled on the motion to lift the stay that was pending before him (see 2 above). As noted, this was always going to be a loser for the NFL. What's somewhat remarkable about it, and what Wallach has been riffing on, is that Mazzant took the opportunity to lay into the NFL again. And, he even took some unusal additional steps of trying to insulate his stay from review (which I can explain further if anyone cares, but it's not that important). This judge is coming off, to me, as a bit unhinged and a little too protective of his decision, and I have a feeling the Fifth Circuit is probably going to sense that vibe. Whether it makes a difference ultimately is tough to say.

    Anyway, the part where Mazzant says that he would not be able to rule until November is important, because what he is doing there is telling the Fifth Circuit, "listen, this stay needs to stay in place, because by the time we decide this thing on the merits, Elliott will have served the entire suspension, so other than salary the case will mostly be moot." He's basically all but imploring them to keep the stay in place. I think they will, but in spite of Mazzant, not necessarily because of him.
     
  34. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I was replying to a post that said Siemian might be capable of delivering a "rude awakening." I disagree with that assessment. I will not be worried about Siemian delivering a rude awakening to anyone until he wins a road playoff game. Until such time, he may continue to look like a cromulent quarterback, a la Matt Cassel.

    If I were inclined to discuss the point you thought was being made, I would note that when 2/3rds of your cited examples do or did, in fact, suck, then you might be quibbling too hard with an arbitrary and personal threshold for believing in the capacity of a QB to rudely awaken. FWIW, I wouldn't be afraid of Newton or Ryan in a road playoff game, and I'd be putting the kids college fund against your other four pretenders.
     
  35. Bosoxen

    Bosoxen Bounced back Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    And since that scenario would never happen, you can sleep tight tonight knowing your theory could never be disproved, Mr Profile In Courage. ;)

    With that said, I agree that's a silly metric. And that Siemian will likely never come close to repeating that performance again.
     

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